A Youtube Video on 8v K-Bike Spline Failures

[Ted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FJbNifR8uA

Anyone have thoughts on this?

[98lee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FJbNifR8uA

Anyone have thoughts on this?

My thought is that guy really wants a Japanese bike. 30,000 miles and he trashed the clutch and the final drive splines???

He spent more time making a video trashing BMWs design for the driveshaft than it would have taken to do a rear spline lube.

My bike has 110,000 miles on the same clutch. My wife's has 87,000 miles. Most Japanese bikes don't last that long.

The only thing that I really agree with is: "maintain your splines".

I checked out some of his other videos and they seemed kind of disorganized.

This one drove me nuts with all his jumping around and incomplete explanations ( and I know what he's talking about). It would be very confusing to someone who didn't know and useless to someone who did. http://www.youtube.com/user/pcofranc#p/a/u/1/-IgELtnml1k


:dance:dance:dance

[TinyTrains]

His bit about the dry clutch is a bit over simplified. Because all but the newest K-bikes have longitudinal engines, it is very difficult to put a wet clutch on them. The new transverse engines can use a wet clutch much easier. Of course the trade off is the valves are now difficult to get to.

I have never understood why automobile clutches go 100K miles without grease and K bikes often need it regularly. My K75 is at 70K and luckily still shifts smooth as glass, even though the clutch has never been lubed, but I keep thinking I really should do it.

I am surprised his FD is toast a 30K. I lubed my FD at 60K and they looked fine. Maybe I got good grease. Who knows.

What conflicts me is that my dealer insists that splines be left alone unless there is a problem such as shifting. “If it shifts fine, leave it alone”. They claim if teeth don’t realign the same, they will wear out faster. Everyone online disagrees. I decided to do the FD anyway, because it gives no warning, but I am holding off the clutch for now. The bike is in semi-retirement now anyway.

Just my 1 ½ cents.

Scott

[mieczkow]

Well, his general argument does make some sense to me. But I am not knowledgeable enough on engineering to render a real verdict. The most glaring thing is what has already been mentioned - that he toasted so much of his drive train in what is a very short life span for most BMW owners I have ever encountered.

I also assume, in general, that the improvements he suggests (wet clutch, grease fittings, etc.) may involve other complications so while they are sensible their execution in reality maybe more difficult or costly than seems apparent when considering them abstractly.

It does make sense to me that to run the drive shaft in some lubricant has a big positive, but also after 50k miles and regular appropriate maintenance I can't see any wear at all on my drive shaft spline. And having just done a clutch spline lube, they looked pretty good as well....

I appreciate the guy taking the time to express his thoughts and I respect his point of view.

:type

[BuddingGeezer]

His bit about the dry clutch is a bit over simplified. Because all but the newest K-bikes have longitudinal engines, it is very difficult to put a wet clutch on them. The new transverse engines can use a wet clutch much easier. Of course the trade off is the valves are now difficult to get to.


Scott

The Honda ST1100 and ST1300 have longitudinal V4s with wet clutches and the valves are easy to get to.

Ralph Sims

[TinyTrains]

The Honda ST1100 and ST1300 have longitudinal V4s with wet clutches and the valves are easy to get to.

Ralph Sims

I wondered if the Hondas had wet clutches. Maybe it is more european thing.

Anyway, the video guy talked about rust on the drive line. I wonder if his bike was left out, or ridden in the rain a lot. When I did my FD spline lube, I found no rust on the drive line and it was 17 years old at the time. My dealer mentioned that corrosion may be a big factor in both clutch and FD spline where. They mentioned living on the beach will often lead to problems.

[mieczkow]

Yeah, it would seem if there was rust and corrosion in the drive line something is going on there - especially if he was referring to the splines between the final drive and the shaft. If that got real rusty I would think it went too long between lubes or else it got compromised somehow... maybe submerged? Driven in salt water?

I had an old Ford F150 pickup that I unknowingly drove through salt water when I first moved down to Florida. Within no time the whole darn car rusted out including the steel brake lines!

[Ted]

When I first did my rear splines on my old K75S there was a lot of "soup" in the swingarm that spilled out when I removed the final drive. I could not figure out where the water was getting in to create that nasty, rusty reddish (BMW #2?) water/lube soup emulsion. Things were pretty ugly, the driveshaft was very worn, the rear spline worn as well but not so bad, everything was rusty and covered with nasty crud. I cleaned it all up, re-lubed things and when I was buttoning it up Larry Fears reminded me to check the rubber swingarm boot - sure enough it was torn. I replaced it the next weekend along with a new driveshaft and redid the rear spline lube with a proper lube. That solved the water intrusion - no more rust or soup and the wear hadn't gotten any worse when I sold it a year or two later.

[Colt03]

I have maintained my K1100LT PER BMW specs, but have had two premature clutch spline failures one at 55K and one at 137K. Definately the achilles heal of the K bikes.
When I retire, I will have the time to dissasemble and lube per the scheduled maintenance, instead of paying the dealer.

sorry for the spelling errors, couldn't find spell check.

[TinyTrains]

I have maintained my K1100LT PER BMW specs, but have had two premature clutch spline failures one at 55K and one at 137K. Definately the achilles heal of the K bikes.
When I retire, I will have the time to dissasemble and lube per the scheduled maintenance, instead of paying the dealer.

sorry for the spelling errors, couldn't find spell check.

Did your bike give an warnings such as down shifting problems be fore the splines went?

Thanks,
Scott

[Ken F]

[QUOTE=Colt03;54504sorry for the spelling errors, couldn't find spell check.[/QUOTE]

Not to worry, bubba Zenetti is on the job!

[BCKRIDER]

What I have heard is that my 1992 8-valve K100RS should have few or no final drive issues because of the Paralever rear end. True? Your experience?

I've also heard that clutch splines give you fair warning of need for lubrication by hard down-shifting before real damage is done. I also gather the frequency of this being needed can vary a lot. Since I am not a DIY'er, I'm willing to take it to a good mechanic when the need arises, but would rather not spend the money on speculation. Sound thinking or stupidity? (This old bike still has only about 13K.)

[PGlaves]

What I have heard is that my 1992 8-valve K100RS should have few or no final drive issues because of the Paralever rear end. True? Your experience?

I've also heard that clutch splines give you fair warning of need for lubrication by hard down-shifting before real damage is done. I also gather the frequency of this being needed can vary a lot. Since I am not a DIY'er, I'm willing to take it to a good mechanic when the need arises, but would rather not spend the money on speculation. Sound thinking or stupidity? (This old bike still has only about 13K.)

On the Paralever bikes the driveshaft splines will outlast the universal joints if they were adequately lubricated at the factory.

As for the clutch hub splines, the downshift problem is a sure sign - but damage can occur before this sign becomes evident. My rule of thumb is 40K miles.

[98lee]

What I have heard is that my 1992 8-valve K100RS should have few or no final drive issues because of the Paralever rear end.

Your '92 is more correctly referred to as a "4-Valve" (number of valves per cylinder) or sometimes a "16-Valve" (total number of valves in the engine).



:dance:dance:dance

[BCKRIDER]

Thanks, 98Lee. I did know that! Sometimes the stupidity of what I type amazes even me.

[Ted]

As always, Lee is right on. The 16v K100RS is not known for final drive issues, but more for driveshaft failures at the 40k to 50k mark - when you hit 35k pull it and check for notchiness and wear.