Worn clutch? Really?

[graydude]

I hope the collective wisdom here can make me feel better. I have an 05 RT with 27K miles. I'm the second owner. Since I bought it in August of 09, I've alwyas noticed a strong clutch burning smell. I do not detect any slipage but do get a strong smell wwhen it's slipped by taking off on a hill, stop sign etc... I brought it to my local dealer and he indicated the clutch was almost down to the rivits and needs replacement at $1,600. Could this be true or are there any other things I should look at?? Is the cost in line??

[Semper_Fi]

To replace the clutch you need to take the back half of the bike apart to access it, it is a rather intensive job.

Some quick check is if your cluth fluid is low, which would indicate a warn clutch

You may want to have another dealer check it out and compare charges

If you continously get a burning smell at all take offs and hills you may have something wrong

I never had any of that going on with my RT

[RoboRider]

I thought clutch fluid INCREASED with wear, the opposite of brakes?

I have 42k miles on my 2005 RT, clutch is still working fine. I would not expect the dealer to lie about it, though. And I do know it's a big job, one I will do myself to save money. Hopefully it happens in Winter so I don't lose riding time.

I wonder, can they actually tell you the clutch is at the rivets unless they ALREADY dismantled the entire tail section and removed the tranny? Can you see this wear without doing that work?

Assuming they have it apart, they certainly could show you the friction disc. There's no way to fake a worn clutch. It either is worn or it is not, and a visual inspection will tell.

[graydude]

I don't believe they have the tranny off yet and I assume they are reaching the conclusion the disk is worn by a visual inspection through the starter. But even if the disk is worn, how come I do not detect any slippage? Why the smell? Could the disk be so badly glazed that it always heats up and smells? I know I sound rather vague on the problem and that bothers me as well. I will need to ask more questions of the dealer tomorrow.

Thanks for the responses.

[marchyman]

Some quick check is if your cluth fluid is low, which would indicate a warn clutch


The clutch fluid rises as the clutch wears.


But even if the disk is worn, how come I do not detect any slippage?


Slippage comes from a weakened spring, a contaminated clutch, or a clutch worn 100% (or more). An uncontaminated clutch worn 98% with a strong spring will not slip.

A dry clutch can easily be worn in 27K. All you have to do is ride the bike as if it had a wet clutch, using the friction zone and brakes. This was a common issue with police when they switched from the kz1000 to beemers before the low speed training changed. Slipping the clutch at medium to high RPM is all it takes. Rule of thumb: have the clutch fully engaged by 2500 RPM.

[85K100LT]

If you always smelt a clutch burning smell then the clutch was probaly never full engaged while running - weak springs or mis- adjusted clutch engagement. On the older bike ie cable operated clutch you could burn the clutch if the cable tension was wrong not adjusted correctly. Riding the clutch as in a car resting you foot on the clutch petal could cause a clutch to burn.


You may have a problem with the rider not releasing the clutch lever all the way or any kinda linkage issue.:violin


IE -Could be an operator problem!!:fight

[racer7]

Note the comments on "intensive job". You have to take a lot of the bike to bits to change a clutch. Labor is a big part of this job SO

Be sure to inspect all clutch parts carefully and change anything showing significant wear or looking suspicious. Even at BMW prices, its a lot cheaper to change now than to have to go back in later.

This does sound like operator induced failure unless this bike is always started max load on steep hills. Inspection of the bad parts will tell the tale and other causes are possible, though less likely. There is no way you should be smelling burned clutch in normal operation except when 1) its breaking in on a new bike and 2) its failed

The dry clutch is an aberrant design for motorcycles and not what most are used to riding.
It is hugely expensive to replace compared to the relatively simple repair possible on many wet clutch bikes. Anyone trying to do it themselves better have a manual AND be a very competent mechanic. However, the dry clutch has proven reasonably durable in use- there aren't many who lost one so soon.

Robo- you know there is virtually no chance of having a clutch die just as winter shows up and besides- you're an NC guy like me. We ride all year......:wave

[RoboRider]

Hah, yeah, of course, my clutch will drop on me around May 1! I did make a nice Winter ride in the NC mountains a couple of weeks ago. Dry falls was half frozen, very beautiful.

So keep us posted on this, it is interesting.

[graydude]

Thanks for the comments gentlmen. I plan on being at the shop when they open tomorrow morning. I still can't figure out how he knows the clutch is down to the rivits when it has not been taken apart yet. I'll let everyone know what I find out.

[RoboRider]

Yes, Thanks. I'd REALLY like to know if they have some relatively easy way to see the clutch wear. Removing a starter motor doesn't sound too hard. If that is the method, I want to know!

[thundley]

Semper_Fi....any plans for a future clutch replacement procedure? :kiss

[weggsa]

There must be an inspection plug?:scratch

[deilenberger]

I'm all ears on how to measure the clutch disk without disassembly. On some BMW cars you can measure the disk thickness with a special gauge that goes into the clutch housing (bell housing) through the pressure plate and contacts the disk.. but I've never seen or heard of that on a BMW bike.

[Polarbear]

They should last a very long time on most bikes, in general touring setups. A 27000 clutch lends itself to much scrutiny, imo...I've had several BMWs go 100000+ and no clutch replacements. The older Airheads, the clutch was a much easier job, it seemed(4-6 hours for me). I have not done a newer model. Randy:thumb

[gordonb]

Greydude, a standard clutch job at the dlr should run you $1000 approx. Unless there are adtl things needed. Yes, the dlr can detect clutch wear status without pulling the bike apart. Putting in ceramic clutch would cost you an adtl $500 approx. The whole job taking a full day.

[Polarbear]

Don't do it, unless you know what you're getting. The lever feel is probably quite different. I do not have any bike knowledge of this, but in autos and big trucks, I do! The ceramic clutches are not as smooth, period. They grab fast...I don't know how hard it would be to find a bike with a ceramic clutch to compare. Just know what you are buying. Randy:thumb

[racer7]

+1 on not doing a clutch material change.
The stock RT clutch is very durable if properly used- at least as durable as many manual transmission cars.

There are many different types of alternate friction materials that can be used. Many are designed for racing applications and become a real PIA in normal street use.

At a minimum, any change you'r considering should be purpose built for use on a street RT and you should be able to discuss its performance and properties with other users with significant experience. There are so called ceramic friction materials than be subsituted for others in normal use (eg many modern brake pads) but there is a huge range of properties in these materials so you need to know exaclty what is proposed, not just "ceramic". Most users do not understand friction material properties, especially cf as it relates to operating temps. And even if you have this info available, you'd need BMW design info or at least a BMW clutch in your hands to estimate its properties for any comparison, assuming you can identify types of friction materials visually.

Be aware the such materials may also create faster wear on metal engagement surfaces- eg the disc and plate.

I deliberately stay away from hard and high temp friction materials whenever possible. My powerful track car (500 hp approx) uses a "soft" nearly stock setup to ease driveline shock because its transmission would likely not survive the shock loads of true racing materials. And my very fast 400 hp street car uses simple carbon kevlar pads because they are very easy on rotors while providing plenty of stoppng power for the street. Were I to take my street car to the track a pad change would be mandatory because I'd kill the carbon kevlars in less than 2 laps due to track temps (rotors at 1300 degrees).

[briana]

MY ST clutch was gone at 36K. I had a rear seal leak that was being replaced when they noticed the clutch. Maybe you have a leaky seal, I've been told the oil can make it's way into the clutch area.

Brian

[graydude]

My dealer has pulled the clutch and they tell me it was shot. I've not personally seen the disk but I have no reason to think I'm being taken advantage of. No mention of any contamination, just worn. The PO must have rode around with the clutch in for giggles. I'm having the rear main and balancer shaft seal replaced just in case.

I'll give an update when I pick it up Saturday. Thanks for all the insightful comments.