Political Prisoner?

[gambrinus]

So when we found out that Flash was tossed in the dungeon until Monday, I think it is fair to say that most would assume that you meant THIS Monday... Yet not a peep from him. Is he just being quiet (highly unlikely ;)....) Or is he still residing on the fecal roster?

Curious minds want to know...

[Cliffy777]

Do tell - I really miss his positive input and uplifting comments.

[username]

i'm with cliffy. a day without flash's inflammatory and hyperbolic behavior is like a day without sunshine for me. a number of threads have gotten downright constructive, and a few have even begun the natural process of dying off after the SNR dropped too low. amazing.

perhaps he will punish us further by not posting for a few more days. don't throw us in that briar patch! please don't!

[MarkF]

Agree or disagree...it's a legit question. He was sentenced to time-out until Monday. That has obviously changed.

Better not speak out against the board or you might be next!

MarkF

[Rob Nye]

Oh please... :rolleyes

If you go back and take another look you will see that his return is not automatic, there needs to be some discussion first. The timing is up to flash.

I would also point out that we have five vacancies to fill in the next election; three directors, treasurer and vice president are up for grabs. Unlike volunteers who throw up their hands and say "you do it" when I say "you do it" I am sincerely encouraging you to consider running for office. You have the opportunity to be an agent of change.

Best,

[username]

Originally posted by Rob Nye
You have the opportunity to be an agent of change.

Best,

but then folks would have to stop being an agent of bitching...

[gambrinus]

The terms of surrender have to be negotiated..? I don't like everything that anyone has to say but I would hope that Flash's ability (I won't say right) to say it would continue. I think that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects upon those in power. If what he said hadn't hit so close to the bone, would this STILL be going on? The guy likes to rant and rave, so what. If you don't like to read it and have a chuckle, just delete it or put him on your "ignore" list. I find the whole thing somewhere between sad and disturbing.

RW

[Hodag]

what does it take to get banned? Compared to some other lists I'm on, this one is huggy-kissy civil?
mark

[gambrinus]

This list is like grade school with a cranky teacher..


RW

[username]

Originally posted by gambrinus
I think that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects upon those in power.

RW

i think the whole situation reflects very well on those "in power." i am extremely pleased with how the situation was handled, and i think flash was given ample opportunity to get his act together, and he failed to do so. if anything too much restraint was used. personally i find the mods of this site behave more like 'stewards' than folks 'in power.' it's a fine line to walk, and they do a great job.

remember, this wasnt an isolated incident, this was the culmination of several weeks/months of inflammatory and unconstructive behavior on flash's part. and there was a whole period a month or so ago where rob spoke with him and asked him to tone it down, and flash went on about how he didnt know, that he just needed to be told, and that now he would be "kindler and gentler." and he was for about ten more posts, then he fell off the wagon, and went back to his old acerbic ways.

it's been said several times, it wasn't the CONTENT it was the BEHAVIOR. youre supposed to be quiet in the library right? if you walk around the library screaming, "BE QUIET" at the top of your lungs, you'll get kicked out. "but," you'll argue. "i was repeating the message of the library!" and the librarian will say, "the letter of the message, but not the spirit. come back when you can both explain AND exemplify the policy of the library."

flash had some good opinions. flash contributed ungodly amounts to the world of f650s. he knows a lot about bikes in general. he takes neat trips/rides. but he acts like an irrational spoiled brat when he argues on this board, and i support any effort to reduce that sort of behavior.

and in general, this is an extremely civil and well-behaved message board. if you want to act like an ass, there are *plenty* of other places to do it, with lots of other asses. an ass-o-rama. and everyone can rail at everyone else all day long. im glad this isnt that place.

[Rob Nye]

Originally posted by gambrinus
The terms of surrender have to be negotiated..? I don't like everything that anyone has to say but I would hope that Flash's ability (I won't say right) to say it would continue. I think that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects upon those in power. If what he said hadn't hit so close to the bone, would this STILL be going on? The guy likes to rant and rave, so what. If you don't like to read it and have a chuckle, just delete it or put him on your "ignore" list. I find the whole thing somewhere between sad and disturbing.

RW

I don't understand why you want to frame this in terms of surrender or imply some sort of victory / defeat game. A user was suspended. Once he wants to be back he will be back so long as we reach an understanding as to what the limits are.

Best,

[Rad]

I remember post'n on a thread here and get'n lambasted by this nut who called himself Flash. He spewed so much garbage and got personal and nasty with me so I quite post'n on any thread he posted on.

Flash should come over to the site I admin and Mod on, Adv Rider. He can have lots of fun in the Jo Momma forum. Oh ya, he would still have Kbasa as a moderator, even there:D

Well done, BMWMOA Mods :clap

[lorazepam]

Hey I still get a laugh about the monkey peeing on the roundel. Most of the stuff flash said I took with a grain of salt, and usually got a grin or two out of them. Telling someone that they cant say what they think scares me. Seems as though it is ok to get on the govt for censorship, but when it hits close to home censorship rules. Big brother is ok when it happens to be you.

[James.A]

We need/I need the raving looneys to keep my satirical wit sharpened. On the other hand, I can understand the moderators and officers getting tired of being ****-misted constantly. If that statement get's me suspended, I'd consider it an honor.

Username got under my skin once, but I skewered him with a toothpick instead of a spear. He never even picked up on it. It is helpful to be able to argue a point without alienating those who you are trying to debate.

I suspect that flash412's feathers are sufficiently ruffled so as to have little interest in returning any time soon.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by woodnsteel
I suspect that flash412's feathers are sufficiently ruffled so as to have little interest in returning any time soon.

I wouldn't bet on it!

I've had my disagreements with a few on this forum. I think Flash was even one of them. I just do not support censorship.

Originally posted by Rob Nye
I would also point out that we have five vacancies to fill in the next election; three directors, treasurer and vice president are up for grabs. Unlike volunteers who throw up their hands and say "you do it" when I say "you do it" I am sincerely encouraging you to consider running for office. You have the opportunity to be an agent of change.

I seriously considered a recent vacancy. But, I am not capable of travelling three times a year to meetings. I'm lucky to get away for three rallies a year. On the other hand I have volunteered to moderate the local rally forum here. I was an supporter of it when the original forum only covered the national rally. But my emails (Including those to you, Rob) have been unanswered. Perhaps I'm not restrained enough to allowed in the inner circle.

MarkF

[jgr451]

Free Flash!!

I didn't even know he had been red carded.

How did I miss that?

I didn't even know there was a dungeon!!!

Free Flash!!Don't read him if you don't like him!!The scroll buttons on mouses are cheaper than an infringement on Flash's freedom.

I have been lurking on another board.I started in jomomma by mistake,in the run up to the election(don't start!!).The flames of venom scared me so bad there that I haven't posted...it seems to be approaching a civilized state now;has good cartoons etc;so I am prepared to stick my toe in the water.

Point being,we are all the poorer for stifling creativity ,wheteher we think it is art or not...remember the artist whose medium was poo?

I respect the restraint and humour shown by moderators,but what are we protecting?
FREE FLASH!!

[Usedtopilot]

Jim - Very astute observations. I agree it's important to be able to disagree and argue your own point of view without attacking the other person. Maintaining dignity and gaining intellectual credibility demand one states a position without putting the other individual in a defensive mode right off the bat. As adults, we state our case, listen (truly listen) to the other side, then walk away with a more complete appreciation for the diversity of thought that makes our country so amazing.

[Rad]

Originally posted by MarkF
I just do not support censorship.
MarkF

There is no such thing as free speech with no censorship; there never has been and there never will be. Somebody somewhere draws that line in the sand that cannot be crossed. It is done in every TV station, in every newspaper room, at every radio station, on every internet forum, at every job and in every household.

The question is not supporting or not supporting censorship, but rather where the censorship line is is drawn. Each “organization” draws that line where it best serves its members. BMWRT draws a very quick line and Advrider lets things go a lonnnnnng way before any line is crossed. Here, the line is somewhere in-between.

I sense that in this instance it was not what was said and was more the fact that it was said over and over and over again and he would not let it drop.

[Hodag]

The big difference for this forum is that I pay to be a member of this club. Part of my dues, and flash's help to keep this ship afloat(if this isn't true let me know). While I disagree with some of the things flash says, I choose to ignore them. However as a paying customer he has the right to state his position on a board he helps fund. Also under the rules section I don't see anything about kicking someone out if they piss anyone off?
Mark

[kbasa]

I'm a moderator on AdvRider, in the jomomma forum, no less, so I'm used to dealing with "interesting" and persistent personalities. As a moderator over there, particularly during the election season, it was necessary to separate the message from the delivery method.

Here's where we drew the line with flash. We let him go on for months about how BMW sucks and how he was on a personal mission to make sure nobody bought a BMW and whatever else. I'm fine with that, though I don't think that sort of activity is in keeping with the mission of this club. Whatever. That's not my call. It's the club's call. I'm just a moderator.

But, when he started to make accusations about the officers of the club and inferring that they were taking payoffs in the form of goods and services and the like, in exchange for favorable reviews and other payback to the vendors, we're working up to out and out slander.

I work with law firms and I've seen slander cases successfully prosecuted on less. So, for the sake of the forum and for flash's sake, we cut him off. I believe Rob is talking with flash at this point. Was this banning done because someone was afraid that flash had, in a Watergate kind of way, somehow blown the cover of the fat cats that run the MOA? No. The MOA is run by folks just like you and me that give up their time and effort to help support this organization.

Let me make one thing clear here. This ban is not permanent unless agreement can't be reached between flash and the MOA. With over 2500 registered users and Lord knows how many posts, we've only locked a few threads in the doghouse and have banned exactly one person.

However, part of running a forum is having to occasionally eject people. We banned a guy over on AdvRider for saying he'd pay to shoot John Kerry. We've banned people for violating the basic agreements of that forum. Also, this forum, while it is a benefit extended to members, does have an agreement that members consent to when they sign up. There are mechanisms for ejecting people from this forum, both temporarily and permanently. In almost every instance, temporary bans are put in place to allow people to collect their thoughts, think about what they really want from the forum and hopefully return with a better and less incendiary attitude.

So, there ya go. It's not the end of the world, people. I hope flash can work out an understanding with the officers and come back. His trip reports and knowledge of bikes are second to none. But if he doesn't, understand that the organization held out the olive branch.

Over and out,

Kbasa

[basketcase]

"S**tmisted."

After four years in the Marines, and then being in and around the construction business for years since, I thought I had heard it all. But that is a new one, and in my fertile imagination I can just see Kbasa reaching for a wetwipe to clean his glasses!

Is this a great place, or what? :thumb

Next, there are three guys in my town with my name. So whenever I hear about something I said or did, I try and be sure which of us is the real subject of the matter.

FYI, we have a member who goes by just "Flash," and then we have Flash412. (IOW, be sure you know who is who before you jump the guy from Flor-i-DUH!)

I've argued with Flash412 on numerous occasions in other places. He loves a good scrap, and will occasionally bait the unwary. At the times when he has seemed over the top, I have relegated his "antics" about BMW motorcyles to an issue of exaggeration to make his point. Probably, BMW corporate takes it a bit more seriously ...

This circumstance, however, does seem to be a bit different. And it is significantly more personal, with the names and roles of the persons in question being known (as opposed to a debate about a "product" like a motorcycle).

Issues of character and integrity, and implied or direct slights of the same, are not to be taken lightly. So I've got to trust that the Moderators have exercised adequate counsel, fair judgment, and reasonable restraint.

Finally, as an interactive medium of communications, forums of this type are still relatively new (i.e., in the big scheme of things). So rather than viewing this as an abuse of power, I see the moderators working to do effective management of a potentially unruly cyberplace.

None of us like to be publicly chided, but in this context, it goes with the territory. Don't worry about how I know this, just trust me ...

Rick (who let the dogs out, anyway?) in AL