Ex Motor Cop with New BMW Needs Advice

[noahjo]

Hello,

The previous thread about the clutch problem has me worried. I recently bought a new 04 1150RT. I was trained and rode the Police Kawaski for 5 years. I keep hearing I have to learn a new way to ride but no one can tell what that means.

Anyone know of any good books or training courses I can go through to learn the new style of ridding so I don't burn up the clutch. Maybe some cops that have transfered from the Kawaski to BMW can help.

Thanks In Advance,

Noah

[Ironhorsecowboy]

Noah, I came off of Harley and other japanese bikes and have not experienced any problems with clutches. I am on an 03 K1200LTC and have had several other problems (ABS, throttle cables, and a bad windshield). I would just ride like you already do and it shouldn't be a problem. If there is, it is a BMW problem which was due to a defect in the clutch, assembly,parts etc. in the first place. The repair should be made under warranty. With you being an avid rider for some time especially as a motor cop there shouldn't be any need for you to learn to shift any different because of a possible defect in your new BMW motorcycle. Just my $.02

[dbrick]

Hi Noah,

Welcome aboard. The difference is how the clutch is used. Your Kawi had a wet clutch, which tolerated slipping very well. I understand that motor officer training (which I've not done) directs candidates to use a slipping clutch to maintain speed when riding small radius sharp turns and circles. The wet clutch tolerates this very well.

The RT, like other BMWs (except the singles), has a dry clutch, like an automobile. These clutches don't tolerate slipping well at all. The rider should release a dry clutch pretty quickly; for instance, if you're first in line at a stoplight or stopsign, you ought to have the clutch lever fully released by the time the front wheel passes the crosswalk - only a bike length or so after you start up. You'll find that with some mindfulness and practice, you'll be able to start up smoothly, either sedately or briskly, and get the clutch lever released quickly in either event.

When the CHP began using RTs, they ate a *lot* of clutches, until folks began understanding that a clutch technique was required that was diferent than they'd previously used with the wet clutches on Kawis and H-Ds. I don't know of any books which treat this issue. Just keep clutch slipping to a minimum, and you should be fine.

[Gizmo]

Hi Noah,

I have not had clutch problems on my BMW's. Frankly, I would look at the clutch problems as a info item to be aware of and not be overly concerned. When these problems are reported on these boards, it is easy to assume the problems are more wide spread than they may actually be. I would be willing to bet that of the total number of units sold that the problems that actually exist are very small.

I doubt you will need special training to learn to ride, your experience will help you find and handle the difference on your own. A couple things to be aware of are as already posted here the fact that the BMW is a dry clutch vs a the wet clutch you are use to. Another tip that perhaps you may already be aware of and use is to pre-load the shift lever when shifting, in other word prior to actually making your shift, apply pressure to the shift lever. This helps to smooth things out a bit.

Well aboard and enjoy your ride, I think you will find the folks on this board and the BMW riding community in general to be a great group of folks.

[bmwmick]

Welcome Noah,
David and Bruce both gave you excellent advice.
The dry clutch on your R1150RT is not much different from a normal car clutch. You want to limit the slipping when you engage it from a standstill. The R-Bike you are on now has a lot more available torque down low than your Kawi did so you can engage the clutch fully with much less chance of stalling it at low RPM's.
Oro Valley down here near Tucson changed over from Kawi's and had about a 6 month learning curve. They replaced a few clutches at first but now they are getting used to the dry clutch on the RT-P's. You might have a contact at Oro Valley PD if you dig around a little.
http://www.ovpd.org/

Mick

[Rad]

The issue is two fold, wet/dry clutch and straight cut gears.

The wet/dry clutch has been addressed

The difference in the gears is learning a new shifting style. You don't have to do this but this technique will result in no missed shifts.

Don't just "snick" the shift lever into the next gear like ya can do on the Japanese bikes. Instead, ya need to: pre-load the shifter for an up shift, pull the clutch in until the shifter moves into the next position, keep pressure on the shifter all the way through the very long shift arc until it stops moving and then continue to leave pressure on the shifter until you release the clutch.

As I said, ya don’t have to use the method above, but many people complain about missed shifts on BMW’s when they don’t use this technique.

[scottie boy]

Also something you should know is that Beemers tend to break in like a comfortable pair of shoes. Your average Jap bike is the best it will ever be when it is brand new and only wears out from there. I swear my RT gets better with every mile. The engine runs better and the tranny most definitely shifts better after 15k. Speaking of the tranny give it a few thousand miles to break in and switch to synthetic gear oil. You won't regret it.

[cat0020]

Off the topic of shifting technique..

Question to the ex-police-officer:

Is there a common courtecy that police would allow a certain amount over the posted speed limit for a motorcyclist?

Or how fast over the speed limit do you have to travel on a motorcycle in order for a police officer to even bother with chasing? or give up chasing?

:dunno

[bmwmick]

cat,
Here's a forum for ya'......
http://tinyurl.com/63xsl

HTH,
Mick

[Ironhorsecowboy]

Gee whiz, Noah--I didn't realize there was so much difference in these bmws. I guess my riding style fits the bmw well. I don't slip the clutches on any of my previous rides. What I do is drop that sucker and let her rip. Ain't no pokin around on my ride. My problem is slowin down!:eek

Question for you techno gurus? since bmw has a dry clutch is it typical of other european bikes like ducati,aprilia and others or do most other manufacturers use the wet clutch design as you stated HD and jap bikes.

[noahjo]

Thanks for all of the responses it has helped. Im glad I went with the BMW given all of the support there is out there


Noah

[Bfish]

I'm fairly new to my R1150RT and want to make sure I understand pre-laoding the clutch. It sounds like we need to keep the clutch lever tight (pulled in) as we're shifting then let it out fairly quickly. I'm not sure how I've been doing this, but I guess I'll a bit more careful now.

[username]

Originally posted by Bfish
I'm fairly new to my R1150RT and want to make sure I understand pre-laoding the clutch. It sounds like we need to keep the clutch lever tight (pulled in) as we're shifting then let it out fairly quickly. I'm not sure how I've been doing this, but I guess I'll a bit more careful now.

bfish - you want to preload the *shifter* by pressing the top of your foot against it. (assuming upshift) then as you pull in the clutch, the shifter will give and boom, youre up a gear. let off the clutch quickly. not jerkily, but dont drag it out either.

when shifting this way you really see how little the clutch needs to move to change gears. as this all becomes muscle memory, you'll be smoother than a gravy sandwich.

im still crappy at starting out with a quick release of the clutch, but going into 2-6 it all feels so much better.

[Bfish]

I got it and pretty sure I accomplish it about half the time I shift. Haven't been keeping pressure against the shift lever as a habit, but konw the feeling of the quick smooth shift. Thanks a lot.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by Ironhorsecowboy
Gee whiz, Noah--I didn't realize there was so much difference in these bmws. I guess my riding style fits the bmw well. I don't slip the clutches on any of my previous rides. What I do is drop that sucker and let her rip. Ain't no pokin around on my ride. My problem is slowin down!:eek

Question for you techno gurus? since bmw has a dry clutch is it typical of other european bikes like ducati,aprilia and others or do most other manufacturers use the wet clutch design as you stated HD and jap bikes.

Most of the European guys use a multiplate dry clutch, which is different than BMW's almost automotive like single plate arrangement.

That's why Ducatis make so much noise. They have a half dozen plates all rattling around inside the cage.

Trivia point: In 1987 or 88, Suzuki made a special version of the GSXR called the Slingshot. It had a multiplate dry clutch and special carbs. They're pretty rare and make the same kind of clutch sounds as a Duc.

[Gizmo]

Originally posted by Bfish
I'm fairly new to my R1150RT and want to make sure I understand pre-laoding the clutch. It sounds like we need to keep the clutch lever tight (pulled in) as we're shifting then let it out fairly quickly. I'm not sure how I've been doing this, but I guess I'll a bit more careful now.

Actually you do not need to pull the clutch lever in all the way, only enough to disengage which is about one third. No harm in pulling the clutch in all the way, but if you pull it in just enough to disengage it will help in riding smoother. The pre-loading technique does not involve the clutch, it involves the shift lever where you apply pressure to the lever prior to make the shift.

[Bfish]

Figured it out after replying...see my other posts. I know exactly what you're referring to and feel like i'm not half bad at it. Another aspect of riding to practice!

[bikerfish1100]

another point of technique, that may or may not be an issue- run the revs up to above 5K (that's minimum, 6 or 7k gets really sweeet) when upshifting. many riders who grew up on twins like to short-shift, advancing thru the gears in the 3000-4000 range. then they complain that their beemers have a clunky transmission. it's not the tranny, it's the lack of revs. try it, you'll like it - it will feel like a whole different bike, and certainly nothing like your grandpa's beemer!

[Bfish]

...funny you bring the rpm issue up. did just that last weekend and noticed a huge diff in shifting and overall performance. only have 1800 mi on it so was kind of careful during the first 600mi. having a little more fun now.

[Gizmo]

Originally posted by bikerfish1100
another point of technique, that may or may not be an issue- run the revs up to above 5K (that's minimum, 6 or 7k gets really sweeet) when upshifting. many riders who grew up on twins like to short-shift, advancing thru the gears in the 3000-4000 range. then they complain that their beemers have a clunky transmission. it's not the tranny, it's the lack of revs. try it, you'll like it - it will feel like a whole different bike, and certainly nothing like your grandpa's beemer!

Good point bikerfish, BMW's really like the higher rev's.

[Bfish]

Have an opportunity to get a full day of riding in thursday. Can't wait to work on these techniques. Will report back in;)

[Kenny2]

It is my understanding that the slave cylinder on the clutch needs its maintenance. It is not german made and when not maintained, changing the fluid, has a tendency to fail, putting fluid all over the clutch.
so, besides the dry clutch, keep up the maintenance.

other advice.....ride it.....:D

[lkchris]

Originally posted by Ironhorsecowboy
Question for you techno gurus? since bmw has a dry clutch is it typical of other european bikes like ducati,aprilia and others or do most other manufacturers use the wet clutch design as you stated HD and jap bikes.

If the crankshaft is inline to the direction of travel, it will be very car like. Moto Guzzi, too.

It works pretty much like that, i.e. the crosswise crank bikes probably have wet clutches.

[Bfish]

Got about 250 mi in yesterday and immediatley noticed the diff and understood the shifter loading. Like it. To change subjects, I'm just over 2k miles and amazed at the oil consumption. It's been explained and I keep an eye on it. Also, I'm riding at much higher speeds and rpms now. Using about a quart every 1500mi so far since the 600mi service. I know it's early in the engine life and I understand the wear-in issue. My rides all tend to be 150-250 on the weekends with a couple hops around town during the week.

[bikerfish1100]

they do tend to be thirsy for oil earlier in their life. shorter stop-go trips will drink it down faster, as will a blitzkreig riding style. don't even consider changing to synthetic until after break-in is done; somewhere over 10K (if at all).

[Bfish]

I've researched and asked enuff ?'s re: changing to syn oil that I've decided to wait until my oil consumption decreases or 12k miles, whichever is later. BTW...you described most of my riding in your comment. thanks.

[BobFV1]

Noah -

Now that you know the quirky little idiosyncracies of the bikes we ride, you will understand if, when on duty, you see a black Beakster revving up to 5000 and dropping the clutch, popping wheelies at stoplights. That will be me on the way to the corner store.....