Clutch Situation

[NYRIDER]

Just read thru some of the “Clutching” war stories posted here online. Although they all have relevance(sort of like the daily horoscope), I really could not get “no satisfaction” from any. So if I may ply the brains of collective BMW wisdom here to see if any clues can be deduced from my information:

Victim: BMW R1100RA born 1997
Offense: Threatening a need for 3rd clutch at 32k miles
Purchased about 4 years ago from a rider in NC with about 20k on it, all papers were in order, and it it ran well. Around 25k, I had a new clutch installed at a nearby BMW dealership. Recently while getting an inspection at another local dealer, I requested a clutch adjustment as lever/cable adjustment wasn’t cuttin it. They later suggested that a new clutch was needed.
Ugh! What!
Driving profile: NYC, stop and go, stop and go with a few potholes added for seasoning. Lots of engaging activity for my clutch. Overall the trans shifts reasonably well(considering its 5 speed heritage) and does not to my knowledge make weirdo noises from bearings, spindles or splines. To look at my mileage, it’s clear that I will never make the high milage honor roles, but I do spend quite a bit of time in the saddle and treat my bike with mucho respect.
Currently it is rideable, slipping is most noticeable upshifting. I don't do wheelies and I service my bike regularly at the dealer. Although the bulk of my 30+ years experience has been on Jap bikes, I am really attached to my Boxer buddy, but a new clutch every 6k is a bit steep!
So now what.... bite the bullet and bring it in? Let them open her up and give the full diagnosis? I realize that there are other possible culprits that can cause the clutch to suffer early retirement, like a leaky internal seal (no telling oil is apparent on the outside). So I am wondering if there is any way to INSPECT or DETECT the current condition of my clutch plate/problem.
(Shoot! and I was just planning an upgrade of my shocks too).
Your comments will really be helpful in reevaluating my option!

AD

[cat0020]

Sounds fishy to me.. though I don't do much stop and go traffic.. but 6000 mile per clutch?

I would look for another bike and get rid of current bike.

[kbasa]

Have you adjusted the clutch recently? How much freeplay do you have at the lever. I think you're supposed to have 7mm, measured at the gap where the lever splits from the lever mount. YOu should be able to pull the lever in a bit before you feel resistance, which will reveal this gap.

[sgborgstrom]

25K is mighty low mileage for clutch replacement and to need another so soon is weird. Ask to see the old clutch parts when get the new one installed and see what they look like, there may be some level of "operator error" going on here. Talking to our service mechs a few years ago about how the PD was doing on their test of the R11xxAuthority model it turned out they were burning up clutches at an alarming rate...seems the old wet-clutch Harleys they trained on stood up to the clutch-slipping style of riding the did much better than the dry-clutch BMWs.

Not trying to "dog" your riding abilities NYRIDER, just making an observation that there is a difference between wet and dry clutches.

Steve

[bmwmick]

AD,
Steve is correct. The RT-P bikes were treated like the Kawi's and Harleys at first. Not many of the local PD bikes made it past 6,000 miles. Now they have learned to to ride them with very little slipping of the clutch.
I know a way to peek in there if you want to pull the starter. You can get an idea if it's oil-soaked and get a rough estimate of the clutch plate thickness. I think 4.5mm is the minimum spec.

Mick

[j-budimlya]

I have 36K miles on a '95 R1100RA and it's seen track days, hard riding and lot's of stop and go and everything else I can throw at it, and the clutch is still fine.....

I think there is an adjustment problem here, or as mentioned, an oil leak or something....start with a careful adjustment of the top and bottom linkage....then pull the starter and inspect if necessary...

Jim bud

[Kneedragon]

The clutch on my 1100 RS made it to just shy of 48,000 miles. At this point it was well and truly dead...............

[bikerfish1100]

sounds like you're probably using wet clutch behavior on a dry clutch bike. don't slip- just modulate your way off the line, then only partial clutch with shifter preloading on the other shifts. higher revs (over 5K is best) help. possibly oil contamination from a leaky seal is also at fault, and/or a need for clutch spline lube. if they end up doing a clutch job, be sure they lube all splines (kinda assume they would do so automatically).
seriously doubt that it is a "bike" issue requiring replacement, as implied by cat0200.

[NYRIDER]

I am in agreement with your comments:
- It does seem fishy
- I will inspect parts (hopefully it wont be from some other bike)
- Don't believe it to be an adjustment issue because I have had the bike
looked at over the year(quarterly?) and clutch was adjusted if necessary
- If it is an internal leak, I don't think I will know anything until it is opened up anyway..
hence that's a clutch job .....
- As for the “Wet YING & Dry YANG” of engaging the clutch, There is some validity to the fact that I had to wean myself off a strict rice burner diet when I started to ride BMW(Rode various imports for 25 yrs.)
but I thought I was past that? Time will tell I guess.
If I was slippin the clutch, wouldn’t I smell it?
And as for the secondary engine adjustment.....
it is a challenge to get my hand in there
(even with a wrench cut back to 2” for clearance)
at a recent event, another rider introduced the idea that if the clutch runs “too” hot (in general) it tends to degrade the bonding material in the clutch plate and glaze over reducing its effectiveness.
Well, it looks like what will be will be.

But on the + side......awhile back, I had posted a note about the brake light always flashing because of the sensitivity of the darn switch and the fact that I cannot get my foot clear of it. Well perhaps I now have turned that problem into an asset, (?).

Initial Clutch problem: My experience is that no sooner than the lever is released and engages the motor, the bike leaps forward but then I am disengaging it because of the lack of open road. So I would pull it in and be on the brake(if necessary). I am now experimenting with loading the rear brake while slow rolling, which does seem to allow the clutch more up close and personal time with the engine.

One thing is for sure, I can’t make a habit out of replacing Clutches

[bikerfish1100]

My experience is that no sooner than the lever is released and engages the motor, the bike leaps forward but then I am disengaging it because of the lack of open road.
and you bothered to upshift, WHY?
So I would pull it in and be on the brake(if necessary). I am now experimenting with loading the rear brake while slow rolling, which does seem to allow the clutch more up close and personal time with the engine.
HUH???
the job of the clutch is to allow an up or down shift. it has no interest in trying to improve the relationship of the tranny and motor. just shift the damn thing and be done with it.

[NYRIDER]

HUH???
***************
All I am saying here is that
when traffic movement is so slow that it’s crawling
when you find yourself advancing by feet and inches rather than mph,
when you find yourself primarily in 1st gear
with occassional visits to NEUTRAL to give your arm a rest
the clutch see a tremendous amount of activity.

[RTRandy]

At slow speeds in traffic you do have to feather the clutch from time to time.

I think owning and riding a bike in Manhatten or Brooklyn may require more than just your clutch getting examined. :stick

It's bad enough just trying to drive a car there.

[bikerfish1100]

work at running the bike in 1st gear at an idle, and just let it creep forward. these big twins will slow race pretty well. and in that kind of traffic yes, you will have to feather it at times. just avoid riding the clutch or overusing the friction zone. personally, i'd consider letting the clutch on the subway take the abuse, and save the RT for runs up to Bear Mntn or out Rt 20 into the Catskills :D

[macman320]

I had my first clutch last about 50K on my R1100RS. I ride it like I rented it. Fast starts, wheelies, it takes a general pounding but always making sure I take a split second extra to make sure I engage each gear.
It started slipping in top gear under hard acceleration mostly.
After I tore it down the first time and seeing how it dis-engages , (solid rod on pressure plate w/no bearings and any way of being re-supplied with grease) I have since been very careful to not use the clutch at red lights. I always put it in neutral and give the pressure plate and rod a break.
Same deal in traffic, after starting a roll in first ,go immediately to neutral and coast to next car and you'll be stopped again in neutral.
You may have used up the spring-y-ness in the pressure platefrom holding the clutch lever too much in traffic.
I used to hold the clutch in because mine was the earliest Rs with the rattling gears and the clutch actuation made it quiet .
I made the mistake of not spending the extra $70 for a new plate and tore it down again a week later because I couldn't get the feel back in the clutch lever. Considering the time and cost for labor, replace the whole thing with kit for clutch .