1965-R69S What' it worth?

[bobgerman]

I have a chance to purchase an R69S with roughly 20k miles. It hasn't been started in maybe 15 years. Gas tank and carbs are varnished bad. No back tire. Damper assembly for the front end is missing. Has Volkswagen mufflers. Headlight assembly is bent from crash. Speedo has plastic cover w/ no chrome ring. It does have some kind of fiberglass bags. The frame is pretty rusty back by the battery. The engine is not stuck but I can crank it over by hand. It belongs to a widow and I don't know how much to offer her for it. I want to be fair.

[swall]

In 1990, I bought a '67 R60/2 in similar condition, except running. In addition to the aftermarket mufflers, it had ape hangers and the seat had been recovered by some automotive shop. I paid $1500. As you probably know, /2 parts are expensy.

[DarrylRi]

Most parts are all available, and while some might think they're expensive, they're no more expensive than you'd expect to pay for new parts for your modern BMW. For example, I bought a new rear fender for my 1953 R51/3 from BMW and got it for $600 in primer.

Prices for a fully restored R69S can breach $20k. But prices fall of quickly as the condition declines.

There has long been a rule of thumb about these bikes: $5k to buy, $5k to mechanically restore and $5k to cosmetically restore. Those numbers are out of date.

Possible problem areas can include:

The magneto coil: while the magneto arrangement is robust, the windings in the coil are insulated with shellac, which breaks down over time, regardless of usage. Magnetos are not common and few know how to diagnose them. Repros and rewound coils are available.
Soft or "butterheads": in the mid 60s, the firm that was casting the blanks for BMW's heads changed the alloy, apparently to reduce air pollution emissions, without telling BMW. These heads, which are indistinguishable from others, can deform in use, trapping the through bolts that mount it to the cylinders, losing spark plug inserts and allowing the stanchions that the rockers mount on to sink, running out of adjustment room.
Bottom end wear: the cranks are built up with captured one piece conrods and big end roller bearings. If this area is worn, it requires pushing the crank apart, refreshing everything, pushing it together again, and getting it perfectly trued. There are only a very few people who can do this service. This can be exacerbated by...
Slinger cleaning. There's no oil filter in these engines comparable to what we're used to. A low volume pump directs oil to the crank main bearings; when the oil exits on the inside face of these bearings, it drops into a sheet metal disk with a cupped outer lip -- a slinger. The oil is then directed into the hollow crank pins and dribbles out into the conrod big end bearings. These slingers fill up with wear and crud, and then the bearings stop getting oil. The bottom end of the motor must be disassembled to inspect and clean these slingers.

[scjack]

By your description, I would say that it's really not worth more than $1000. I would make a list of everything that you know it needs and add up the prices before taking on this project. I completely restored one of these around 15 years ago and it wasn't cheap then. I think that at today's prices, you would spend a minimum of $7-$8k to mechanically restore and $5-$6k to cosmetically restore (and I may be low). The old /2's were beautiful machines to look at but I sold mine to someone who wanted to fool with the quirks of a /2. Personally, I enjoy owning and maintaining the 1981-1985 airheads due to the improvements that were made by the factory by this time and the ease of overall maintenance. Good luck with your decision.

[Yarddog]

By your description, I would say that it's really not worth more than $1000.

If it doesn't have a title, it's not even worth that...depending upon what state you are in, it can be a living hell trying to get it titled...in many states, you've got to bring it back to full running condition before it can be inspected and the VIN verified...and if something happens that it can't be registered, you've just poured all that money down the tubes that you have spent to get it to that condition... Ergo, a total pig in a poke...no title, worth no more than 500 bux, maybe less, in my opinion...

[JOHNW67]

Here's a link to a '69 R60/2. I saw this one in person. Needs a lof cosmetic work, but runs nice. The dealer sells quality bikes that have been worked over mechanically.

http://www.re-psycle.com/pre_owned_list.asp

[AnnapolisAirhead]

Even without the title, I haven't seen any R69S bikes for under $2500. I'd go $1k. Maybe more if the slingers were done by a reputable mechanic. The R69S bikes seem to retain more value than other R60 bikes, etc.

Depending on the year, the heads had some issues IIRC from reading Duane Ausherman's site. Even still, an R69S is a very desirable classic and at $1-2k you'd probably be in pretty good shape even if you had to do a frame up restoration IMO.

[20774]

Here's a link to a '69 R60/2.

Something's wrong with the information provided in the ad. The VIN given can't be for an R60/2...a '69 R60/2 would have been something like 181xxxx. The VIN given fits an '69 R69S. The bike appears to be an R60/2 based upon the valve covers...can't see the cylinder fins to be sure it's not an R50/2. But the VIN and the description don't match.

[JOHNW67]

Not sure what's gong on there Kurt. Maybe just a clerical error or the frame and motor don't match?

[20774]

Yeah, something's not right. If I were interested, I'd be asking more questions.

[69zeff65]

If you indeed have an R 69S with matching # rough condition its about a $3,500- $5,000 bike (depending on how rough). Non matching and all the stuff described I would shell out around $1,500 to $2,200 depending on a close inspection to determine a parts donner or a resto project.

A nice restoration will cost about $7,500 for drive train & wheels, $4,500 paint and stripe and another $1,500 - $3,000 for incidentals such as your speedo, wire harness, fasteners and other items that you find are junk. I f you do most of the work yourself the costs come down.

Bristol Grey '65 R 69S
Dover White '69 R 60US
Black '55 R 50
Dover White over Black '62 R 50S
and an assortment of new suff

[bobgerman]

How do I determine the numbers matching?

[DarrylRi]

The engine number is stamped on the right side, just above the pushrod tubes. The frame number is stamped on the right side of the steering head. For the trifecta, the badge that is screwed to the front of the steering head shows the frame number. All three numbers should be the same.

[Bensonhurst]

If any body thinks they can find a running R69S for $3500 dollars, think again, even, incomplete, frozen, basket cases are going for more than that.

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[longridgebuilder]

Why did that bike sell for $ 6,500.00? Seems in awful condition.

[Bensonhurst]

Why did that bike sell for $ 6,500.00? Seems in awful condition.
check out parts on ebay
$465.00 for a wheel (one wheel)
$1500.00 for a gas tank
etc.

[bikerfish1100]

check out parts on ebay
$465.00 for a wheel (one wheel)
$1500.00 for a gas tank
etc.

"asking" and "getting" are not interchangeable concepts.
put those items on your watch list- see if they sell, at what price, etc.

[longridgebuilder]

Past two weeks;

wheel sold for $465.00

sport tank sold for $1525.00

[carlo]

Why did that bike sell for $ 6,500.00? Seems in awful condition.

It sold for that because ebay buyers don't know what they're really worth, and they get themselves into a bidding frenzy that drives the final price to well over true worth.

You should be able to get a reasonably presentable runner for that.

[carlo]

check out parts on ebay
$465.00 for a wheel (one wheel)
$1500.00 for a gas tank
etc.

"asking" and "getting" are not interchangeable concepts.
put those items on your watch list- see if they sell, at what price, etc.

And individual parts will always sell for more than they're worth as a percentage of the price of a complete bike. That's why so many bikes end up parted out on ebay rather than sold complete.

[Bensonhurst]

they're worth what people are willing to pay and they're getting harder to find.
I remember when I passed on a Vincent Rapide because the seller was asking the outrageous price of $3000.oo

[AnnapolisAirhead]

they're worth what people are willing to pay and they're getting harder to find.
I remember when I passed on a Vincent Rapide because the seller was asking the outrageous price of $3000.oo

:banghead

[mymindsok]

If it doesn't have a title, it's not even worth that...depending upon what state you are in, it can be a living hell trying to get it titled...in many states, you've got to bring it back to full running condition before it can be inspected and the VIN verified...and if something happens that it can't be registered, you've just poured all that money down the tubes that you have spent to get it to that condition... Ergo, a total pig in a poke...no title, worth no more than 500 bux, maybe less, in my opinion...

Hi Dog!

You're right about that rule for getting a title in Cali but....

After getting a couple of bikes "bimbo bikes" titled up here, I got to know the CHP officer who commands the inspection station and he has been nice enough to run some registration numbers for me, before I start in on a new project.

That doesn't get me a title up-front but it does let me sleep at night, while the build gos on and next week I can get the finished bike inspected, confident that by the afternoon, I'll be driving home with a title and a license plate, rather than an empty pick-up truck and a sob story!

[Bensonhurst]

you can get a title for any 94 or older motorcycle here = http://www.its-titles.com
I've used them on several old bikes that I got sans title

[henzilla]

Had a 69S show up today at the shop on a trailer...matching engine,frame & badge #s. The fairing is blocking my view of mfg date on the badge, I can only see the serial #

Bike hasn't been fired in several years, but turns over and has compression, the tank insides look amazingly rust free... The grandson who brought it to me said he ran it and put Stabil in the tank a "few" years back. He also is going to bring up his grandfathers /5 that has been sitting idle about same time.

18775 showing on the odometer

and this Grover Smith Sport Plastics, Odessa Texas fairing

Tried two diff sites trying to run the serial #...any help would be appreciated

[20774]

Steve -

The fairing looks remarkably similar to the Wixom Ranger fairing on my R69S. As for numbers, try Vech's website:

http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/tech/serial.html

I'm not sure the plate will tell you the manufacture date...at least mine didn't. To find the actual date, I had to send an email to BMW and provide the details. Generally, the VINs for pre 1970 bikes cover the entire range of years as opposed to telling you when the bike was built. BMW started publishing that beginning with the /5.

[henzilla]

Thanks Kurt,
the son thinks it is a 67/68...he is looking thru all the papers he inherited to find the title.

I got a flashlight and looked again at the plate, you are right....no mfg date

there is a card laminated inside the fairing with the Odessa TX company.
He has a solo seat on it, but said he has the bench as well as well as some side cases...somewhere

[20774]

I've been maintaining a PDF file on the Yahoo /2 website. It's a compilation of VINs people either provided me or that I've found from various websites and postings. What I was looking for is the VIN and the year of registration. That was going to be a crude way of breaking down the VINs into the various years.

I was going to link the PDF file here, but unless you're a Yahoo /2 member, you wouldn't be able to see it. If you want to PM me the VIN, I can then see where it falls within the existing range of entries. It might provide a reasonable clue as to the date of the bike.

[henzilla]

PM'd you