Dealing with Insurance Co. in Total Loss

[hintzir09]

Not a post that I thought I would ever have to write.

After a month of travels on my three month adventure, my GSA was stolen in Eugene Oregon just two nights ago.

I don't expect to ever see this bike again since I'm sure it was a professional operation.

I'd like to know if anyone has gone through the dealings with the insurance company on theft or total loss situation.

I'm most worried that I am not going to get what the bike is actually worth. I know this is going to happen to some extent, but is there anything I can do about it? They said I would be able to look at what they find as comparables to my bike, but I am thinking of finding a bunch myself.

[MPMARTY]

It depends on who your insurance company is. I'm speaking from a different point of view as I've never had a total loss on anything of mine, but for twenty five years was an Insurance Adjuster dealing in claims of this type.

How old was the bike?
What custom equipment (farkles) did it have?
How many miles on it?
Did the service that was done most recently get done at a BMW dealer?

[jeremell]

Do your own homework. Collect your maintenance records and receipts for added items.

[RTRandy]

The insurance companies sure act like your best friend when they're trying to sell you something.

[119240]

It comes down to actual cash value of the bike - Blue Book - ect. or APPRAISAL VALUE. Value or Replacement Value. Depends on your coverage!
An Appaisal cost about $220-$250 to got done & papers, best $220 spent "IF" something happened in a total lose.

Bike A - is 20K value + 4K add ons = Blue Book says 20K to you
Bike B - Same bike + same add ons = With an Appraisal Value is 24K to me

or

Take Blue Book - trade in + retail divide by 2 = Get X value
Appraisal value = Bike + add ons = You get bike appraisal value + add ons= Total Value of loss.

or

an antique car - Blue book value is X
appraisal value of antique car + new motor,paint,disc brakes = XX

[PGlaves]

Getting a valid appraisal after the bike has vanished (stolen) would be a bit difficult.

A qualified (?) appraiser might be able to find better comps than NADA (always low since its primary use is for trade-ins and loans) or Kelly, but is still relying on the owner to describe condition and what was on the bike.

[deilenberger]

Motorcycle Consumer News publishes a price-guide every 6 months or so.. dunno where they get their numbers from, but in looking at BMW numbers they usually are in the ballpark.

You might also go to Ebay and do a search for the same model, completed auctions - and look for bikes that sold. Match up farkles, or document lack of a match and you have some numbers to work with.

The appraiser is going to use whatever number he finds that is cheapest for the company he works for (that's his job..) - your job is to provide valid other numbers.

Receipts for all the farkles is a good idea too.

[RTFlyer]

Motorcycle Consumer News publishes a price-guide every 6 months or so.. dunno where they get their numbers from, but in looking at BMW numbers they usually are in the ballpark.

You might also go to Ebay and do a search for the same model, completed auctions - and look for bikes that sold. Match up farkles, or document lack of a match and you have some numbers to work with.

The appraiser is going to use whatever number he finds that is cheapest for the company he works for (that's his job..) - your job is to provide valid other numbers.

Receipts for all the farkles is a good idea too.

I worked as an adjuster for both domestic and offshore companies and syndicates in the aviation and marine industries, and my job was to give an accurate appraisal of any loss. And I'm talking into the eight figure range. There is no need to be adversarial with your own company. If you think that the bike is worth more than they do :deal (and I'm sure you will), demonstrate the difference with the paperwork regarding your farkles and similar motorcycles. The adjuster can take that info to his claims manager and get you more. If you treat him as an advocate, he'll act as one, and have more success. A sad fact we all have to understand is that an $850.00 seat doesn't necessarily make the bike worth $850.00 more. Ditto for any farkle.

I assume that anything I add to any of my vehicles is for my own enjoyment as long as I own them, and hope that they make the vehicle more saleable when I'm through with it...I have a truck with over $5000.00 in engine work alone. I don't expect to ever recover that expense. I just get to enjoy those few seconds from 0-70 (or so)!:clap

And without even a starting point, spare youself all the handwringing just yet. After you get a figure, go from there.

[k100lt]

RTFLYER...Very well said

[osbornk]

I was an adjuster or claims manager for over 31 years (terrible job, I must have been insane). The amount paid is based on the documented value. Some adjusters are very busy and don't have time to properly evaluate and document the value while others are just lazy. Inadequate documentation and evaluation can result in overpayment or more frequently, underpayment. Also, it is a rare adjuster that is knowledgeable regarding motorcycles. Wait until you get a setttlement offer from the adjuster before offering your opinion because he may offer you more than the bike is worth. Be prepared to support your value with documentation that can be verified. An evaluation of the value from a knowledgeable source that is familiar with your bike and has seen it recently is helpful (like your servicing dealer). Bikes like yours for sale with documentation is helpful. The more documentation you have that you can present to the adjuster, the better chance you have of getting your price. The book value is a guide and local conditions make a large difference in the actual value (motorcycle value guides generally are national and car guide books are usually regional). An adjuster can get approval for a higher settlement more easily from his manager if he or she has verifiable documentation to present to the manager.

Most accessories have little impact on the value and high performance options frequently decreae the value (buyers are scared the bike was abused or raced).

Ken

[deilenberger]

And without even a starting point, spare youself all the handwringing just yet. After you get a figure, go from there.Larry - I agree with all you stated (which I'm sure is true on items in the 8-figure range) - but - having your own information - and knowing what the value should be before receiving an evaluation seems just plain old common sense.

As Ken pointed out - the lazy appraiser (who normally isn't handling 8-figure claims) may very well offer you more than the bike is actually worth - which you wouldn't know unless you know what the bike IS worth. Knowing that would allow you to tell him "Hey - you're giving me too much!" OR "Where do I sign?"

I'd still suggest the original poster spend some time informing himself of what the value should be before even talking to the appraiser. That isn't assuming an adversarial position - it's just being smart.

[DarkCloud]

Accessories, add ons, if they aren't covered in your policy which generally they aren't, you just lost. The insurance company just pays based on the serial number of the bike. The biggest problem in a theft case if your bike is recovered with problems that didn't exist when it was stolen. The insurance company will want you to prove that the problems didn't exist when the bike was stolen.

When you do your settlement, make sure you get paid for your plates, taxes and sales tax based on the settlement price of your bike.

JON

[hintzir09]

Thanks for the help and the suggestions.

I have not heard anything yet, but will probably have more questions as this progresses.

[osbornk]

The biggest problem in a theft case if your bike is recovered with problems that didn't exist when it was stolen. The insurance company will want you to prove that the problems didn't exist when the bike was stolen.

When you do your settlement, make sure you get paid for your plates, taxes and sales tax based on the settlement price of your bike.

JON

No. If there is a problem with the bike that was caused by the theft, it is the insurance company's responsibility to prove that it was not caused by the theft. As an adjuster, I have paid to repair a lot of things on stolen and recovered vehicles that I felt were not due to the theft but could not prove. People will try anything to defraud insurance companies when they think they can get by with it. Obvious things can be denied outright such as obvious worn out things, dents that have rust in them, etc. Another way is to do some investigating and discovering that the owner had had the vehicle in the shop prior to the theft where the problem was diagnosed or estimated but not fixed. I have also had people familiar with the vehicle tell me of the prior problem (unhappy spouses or ex-spouses/ unhappy girlfriend/boyfriends, people who dislike the owner and sometimes people who just don't like people who are dishonest). Out of sight claims (thefts, total burns, etc) where you can not see the vehicle are the most difficult for an insurance company to handle. The frequency of owner assisted theft and burns causes the insurance company to treat everyone with suspicion. You frequently get a real shock when the low mileage perfect vehicle with new tires you paid for is recovered and it turns out to be a beat up ratty old high mileage piece of junk with slick tires.

Ken

[RTFlyer]

Larry - I agree with all you stated (which I'm sure is true on items in the 8-figure range) - but - having your own information - and knowing what the value should be before receiving an evaluation seems just plain old common sense.



That's a good point. I assumed he had a number in mind.


So??? How did it go??? Any updates??

[88bmwJeff]

I would wait until you hear from the insurance company. When my wife's car was totaled out, the insurance company hired a third party to estimate its value. The third party included recent local car sales as support. I also searched Craigslist for current asking prices, and I believe we were given a fair value for the car.

[deilenberger]

I would wait until you hear from the insurance company.Jeff - I gotta ask. Why?

There is a mens store in NYC called Sy Sims.. Sy had a standard ad line he used in every ad.. "An educated consumer is our best customer.." - and I think this is a case of that again. There is a saying "Knowledge is Power" - and conversely to that - "Ignorance is Bliss."

Knowing what number is acceptable to the bike owner before the insurance company gives him a number - is knowledge that can be beneficial to him, and I can see no downside to having the knowledge at all. Can you? If so - enlighten me please and let me know how he'd be better off being ignorant.

[hintzir09]

There are papers my insurance company needed before they could go any further. They were overnighted to me while I was still in Oregon but never made it there.

I am now back in WI and just sending them out today.

I will post when I have more info.

[wharthog]

maybe I'm naive and it reflects my only experience with a total loss ( I had an old Porsche and got rear ended) but I don't think most insurance companies are looking to rip you off. I received a very fair settlement on their first offer.

[Vaughnb]

I have made out well and took a beating on insurance claims. The NADA value is what most companies use and it is really that simple. You can show reciepts for accessories and so forth and you may get it, you may not. Your attitude is the key. The short of it is, insurance is as only as good as the agent.

Sorry for the loss.

[hintzir09]

This morning I received a call from Progressive with the amount they were offering.

10 Minutes later Eugene Police Dept. called and said they found the bike. Apparently someone has been driving it around....???? Impossible I was told by several BMW dealerships when they don't have the key.

So now I have to get the bike home somehow?

Anybody ever ship a bike? Suggested companies?

[RTFlyer]

Will your insurance company pay and arrange it? Sounds like they should be glad to take care of it vs. a total loss.

Also, in some states, recovered thefts are totalled and are given salvage titles since there is no way for the rightful owner to know how the vehicle was maintained or driven while out of his possession.

[hintzir09]

Will your insurance company pay and arrange it? Sounds like they should be glad to take care of it vs. a total loss.

I have roadside assistance through Progressive, but they will not consider this road side because I wasn't using the bike. They are considering it a regular claim and I will pay because my deductible will eat it all up.

I got to get it out of the salvage yard because at $40 day for storage it's going to kill me.

Also, in some states, recovered thefts are totalled and are given salvage titles since there is no way for the rightful owner to know how the vehicle was maintained or driven while out of his possession.

What is a salvage title?

[Sexton62]

I also have Progressive on bikes and boats. Was wondering if you were satisfied with the service/handling of the claim? I don't want to stay with a company if they don't do right by the customer and give you fair amount without two many problems.