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rocketman
10-13-2004, 06:17 AM
Need options please on strange problem with my 78 R100/7
The last two days that I’ve ridden to work, a trip of approx. 20 miles with all but one mile on the slab, the bike ran fine on the way in but on my ride home in the afternoon when I got within a mile or two of home the bike would suddenly lose all power and start to back fire like crazy. What is strange is that it would idle just fine but if I gave it any throttle it wouldn’t go above 2000 RPM, then start to backfire and drop back to idle. Thinking it might be fuel related I dropped the bowls on both sides, fuel level was fine and equal both sides. Fuel was clean, no particulates and fuel flow was fine both sides. Just to be on the safe side I tossed the gas in the bowls and reinstalled them. Started the bike back up, it started fine and would idle smooth but as soon as I gave it gas, same thing, it would rise to 2000 or so RPM then back fire and shoot big clouds of black smoke and drop back to idle and it seemed to come mostly from the right side exhaust... I figured it might be related to spark even thought the current plugs had less than 2000 miles on them. So I put in some old spare plugs, and then the bike ran fine. When I got home I checked the plugs I had pulled, both where clean and dry, no cracking of insulation and same range I had used for the past 5 years. The next day the same thing happened at around the same point on the ride home, maybe a mile closer than the previous day. This time I changed the plugs first thing, doing one side at a time. Left plug change made no difference but when I changed the right side it ran fine. And what’s strange is that I used the plugs that had been in the bike the day before when it had lost power, so it doesn't seem to be the plugs themselves. I have a Dyna III on the /7 but other than that stock setup and the Dyna uses the mechanical advance. So I think it must be related either to the plug wire or coil for the right side, since if it was the Dyna III or the advance it should affect both sides. This seems like it might be related to operating temp. since the mornings have been cool, around mid 40’s to low 50’s and daytime temps in the mid to high 70’s. Both times the bike has been cool in the AM after getting to work, I can place my hands on the valve covers without discomfort but both times on the way home they have been rather hot to the touch. So, besides wire and coil is there anything else that comes to mind? Can wires or coils begin to fail when hot and why would changing a plug “solve" the problem, esp. using a plug that had "failed" before? Neither time did the bike sit long enough to cool down, it took all of ten minutes the first time and less than 5 the second time before it was running again. Far as I know both the wires and coils are original, bike has around 80+K miles. I wondering now if this is maybe related to a problem I’ve had with rough/erratic idle in the past on hot days esp. if caught in slow traffic, something I thought was due to junk in the tank (which really needs recoating, but I’ve just been to lazy to do it plus that’s two days of no riding!) getting into the bowls and clogging the main jets. Thinking back I realize that it often ran fine after it had cooled down some, though sometimes fresh gas has helped as well. Thoughts?


RM

Bobmws
10-13-2004, 04:43 PM
I have had similar problems with the Dyna 3 on my 90S. My system still has the condensor from the points installed. After having the misfire problem occur on the road, I changed the condensor as a last ditch effort and the problem was solved. Speaking of this with Joe Katz, he told me that he had seen similar problems, and the fault was a poor ground. In my case, we surmised that changing the condensor improved the ground. Other things to check might be a cracked coil that becomes problematic when it gets warm. HTH

PeoriaMac
10-13-2004, 09:52 PM
This is exactly what happened to my 1978 R100/7 several years ago. First inclination was to look at the Dyna-3. Turned out it was indeed a cracked coil which needed a mile or so to warm up and go bad.
Replaced the coil -both, just in case - and the problem ceased.

Mac

rocketman
10-14-2004, 04:09 AM
Thanks, I was starting to think it might be the pickup unit as it's a hall effect type sensor and I've heard of problems with those going bad when hot on the oilheads but when it's cooled down it ran fine again. Deffinately heat related as it did it again yesterday but after 10 minutes it ran fine and I didn't replace plugs or anything just let it sit. I didn't think that it used the condenser? I left mine in place since it's easier and it's right there if I had to change back to points on the road but I thought I had to disconnect it. Have to check today though as it's been over four years since I put in the Dyna.

Did you find the bad coil by a visual check or run some test on it?

Going down to my machanics today to check it out.

Thanks guys for the input.

RM

lkchris
10-20-2004, 12:46 PM
Check kill switch.

tvrla
10-23-2004, 08:42 PM
One way to check coils (which it sounds like this is) is to swap plug wires from one side to the other. If the problem stays with the right side, it's the wire, if it goes to the other side, it's the coil.

You can also pull the tank at night when it's dark (and it's doing the misfiring) and you should be able to see the arcing.

peteremsley
05-16-2005, 07:24 PM
Did you ever fix this?

I am having a similar problem on my 60/6. Operates fine for about 30mins (less on warm days, more on cool days) and then starts missing over about 3500 rpm. Idles fine. I replaced the coils (was told they were the likely culprits) and it made no difference. I have the std points setup.

Wires next? I hear the NGK 500ohm are the way to go - good idea?

James.A
05-16-2005, 07:41 PM
I would agree with Mac. Coils going bad often show failure after heating up. Another possibility is the resistor caps. I've had trouble with those too. The one side only thing makes me think your trouble is in side specific components.

carockwell
06-01-2005, 01:15 AM
One way or another, you are suffering from an intermittent ignition problem. As though your list of possibilities was not long enough already, you have the potential of intermittent power to the coil caused by faulty wiring connections, though this usually shows up as a hard starting symptom. Another fun possibility is that your points are not correctly installed. Oh yeah, that guy who said it could be the condenser is also right on the money, along with the people who say it could be the coil. Either way, you have to replace the condenser or coil to see if they are bad because you need an oscilliscope with the bike when it is misbehaving to diagnose either of these components. Do a complete ignition make over! Eventually you will need those parts anyway...I am serious.

Don't rule out fuel starvation because the float chambers are full. Pull a hose from the carb when the bike is giving trouble and be sure that fuel is POURING out, like a garden hose, not dribbling out, like you pee. It is VOLUME of fuel flow that counts, not pressure or float level. I wish I could describe it better.