Anybody drilled the hole?

[Polarbear]

In the shaft housing, just before the FD that houses the UJoint, I drilled mine today to let water escape! I just serviced my shaft and FD oil and found a lot of crud/dirt in the UJoint housing and a clear indication water had been present. No water when I took it apart, but it had been there. Now it can escape a bit easier. I'll see how this works! I can always plug it later, if need be. I drilled a small one eighth inch hole under the joint and the aluminum is thick there. A creek crossing may force some water up the hole or extreme rains perhaps. I will keep a close watch to see if this helps. Either way, water was getting in before the hole I made. Randy:thumb

[Semper_Fi]

Randy - post a picture would be interested to see what you did. There is a ratrher large opening in the casting of the rear drive, is this where the water is getting in or is it past the accordion boot.

Thanks

Luis

[pdogger]

I was concerned about this when my front boot pulled out. I pushed it back in and it locked in place but I realized water would easily pass this boot and be trapped in the swing arm with no way to drain. On a water crossing this will fill the swing arm to a certian degree. I'm wondering if drilling will compromize the strength of the swing arm. Im guessing not much.

[BMWRich58]

N8's race bike eliminated the boots all together.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/BMWRich58/100_2150.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/BMWRich58/100_2152.jpg

[Semper_Fi]

For a race bike maybe - but a little to exposed (imo) for a daily driver

[Polarbear]

A more in depth word picture! My photo system is not up and running, sorry. I'm not sure just HOW water gets in there, but it certainly does from somewhere. I live in CA and do not get much water issue, BUT riding home from Florida this summer in late July, I ran through FLOOD like rains in Alabama to Louisiana and into East Texas. This is clearly where I got my water. I do my own service and do grease the rubber boot as it came from factory, as its reinstalled. This is the only real barrier between the boot and the metal housing, as I see it. I have read months ago, some have had real rust issues in there, around the joint itself, from water intrusion. Mine was still clean, no rust.
Drilling my hole, was done in front of the boot in the very thick part of the "drive shaft housing bottom", only a inch ahead of the UJoint. I did not measure the thickness of the housing but the bit dug through a lot of aluminum, maybe half inch it seemed. Plenty of thickness to do no harm to the housing. I drilled from the outside, going in and the majority of the shavings were lying on the bench when done. The few reamaining in the housing were easily cleaned out. Anyhow, I feel its a no brainer to refill the hole, if this has no meaning, after I reinspect it after a few thousand miles. Should help:). BTW, all this was done during my service of the FD oil, so the unit was just hanging, begging for this and was easy without the boot in place:). Randy:thumb

[Ken E]

Polarbear, I drilled the 1/8" hole today after finding water in the bottom of my 09 RT swing arm for the second time at 9+k miles, 6 months old. First time I went in at 4k miles back in June there was a lot of water and not much grease on the boots which I thought was the culprit. See my post with pictures from 6/28/09.

Now I beileve it is from condesation. Here in VA we have been quite dry, not much rain ( havent had to wash the bike or cut grass = more riding time :-)
The commute is cool 6 AM, 18 miles, park outside, ride another 18 miles home in warm afternoon, park bike in shed. Used lots of white lithium grease last time, so I dont suspect water made it past the seals.

Got to be from the large interior volume of the swing arm heating, cooling and sucking in / condensing moisture. All the gearboxes I have ever seen have had some kind of vent, untill this bike. Did not have this trouble with my K75.

thanks
Ken

[Semper_Fi]

This may be a reason how you get water in your drive

This is from my wife's '05, and my 09 GT has the same thing

[AZ-J]

My '07 R12S has that hole too (even if my drive line is black, not silver). Under it a plastic shroud of some sort covering the gear. I tried to stick a finger in the hole and was stopped by the shroud before I could touch grease.

Here, the chance of condensation is very small as we are very dry ambient all year long. Luis, now you make me wonder if a correlation to that (dew point and condensation) is responsible for final drive failures? Aren't most IBA starting in medium to high dew point and condensation climes early in the morning, so another 11K miles could do them in? This sounds so plausible to me.

[valvman1]

The hole shown in Semper Fi's pic above does not in any way expose
either the FD gearing or the rear universal. The 'plastic' you can see
is the (bottom of the) boot covering the universal. I've been using a lithium grease w/ a PTFE additive w/ good result for treating the ends of the boot prior to reassembly and have had no moisture evident in that area of the universal.


Dave Bogue
'08 R1200rt

[AZ-J]

Thanks, Dave,

I can't see that plastic boot (it's black on black in a lighted garage, but at night so light not so good for b on b) - I just feel it.

I just had my drive greased up as part of a 8.5K service (part 6K and part 12K) by the dealer. I may do the next one myself (with a bud) at 14K just to see what's in there.

[Ken E]

Dave, What's the brand / type of grease your using? I was using just plain white litho. Thinking of using a thicker "water proof" wheel bearing grease.
Thanks
Ken

[valvman1]

Ken,
The grease I used is ST-80 from Century Lubricants Co (FUCHS). I think I got
it from McMaster-Carr but I'm not sure... could have been MSC.

Dave

[deilenberger]

The hole shown in Semper Fi's pic above does not in any way expose
either the FD gearing or the rear universal. The 'plastic' you can see
is the (bottom of the) boot covering the universal. I've been using a lithium grease w/ a PTFE additive w/ good result for treating the ends of the boot prior to reassembly and have had no moisture evident in that area of the universal.


Dave Bogue
'08 R1200rt

+1

I've used Wurth 3000 grease (the stickiest stuff in the world - it sticks like chewing gum..) on the two boot ends and have had no moisture problems at all. You MUST make certain (1) the rear-drive end of the boot is over the flange on the rear-drive (2) the front of the boot - has it's plastic expanding retainer in it - and the retainer isn't broken. Apparently it's not uncommon for it to break - and when it does - the front end of the boot no longer seals well to the swingarm.

BTW:

Dave - I suspect some of the problems people have had is due to the rear-drive end of the boot not being seated on the flange on the rear drive. It will look just fine with the rear-drive swung up in place - but it leaves the area above the hole they're illustrating open to the world, and water.. In photos I've seen this appears rather obvious to me since I have seen corrosion on the flange, which couldn't happen if the boot had been properly seated.

[Ken E]

Don, Yes, sticky / tacky is good. After looking at greases "water proof / washout resistant / marine grade / open gear grease" should have lots of tackifiers. The manual recommends (unobtainable locally) Kluber Staburags NBU 30 PTM assembly grease. Data sheet says (to the best of my limited German) is a thick, barium complex, with mineral oil grease. Shell Super Duty, Bel-Ray Salt Water Proof, and others look good too. Will look for the Wurth 3000.
thanks
Ken.

[MPMARTY]

Wurth USA, Inc. Wurth USA, Inc. Wurth USA, Inc. Wurth USA, Inc.
1486 East Cedar St. 8501 Parkline Blvd. 385 Kimberly Dr. 93 Grant St.
Ontario, CA 91761 Orlando, FL 32809 Carol Stream, IL 60188 Ramsey, NJ 07446
(800) Würth US (800) Würth US (800) Würth US (800) Würth US
24-Hour Wurth MSDS Fax Hotline (201) 995-9905 or 1-888-WURTH-FAX
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
DIVISION:
Automotive
TRADE NAME:
SIG 3000 Super Grease
PRODUCT NUMBER:
1890402, 08904020 (Old Number 890402, 8904020)
DATE PREPARED:
April 16, 2001
1. HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
CAS#
PERCENT
OSHA PEL
ACGIH TLV
Petroleum oil mixture
>85
5mg/m3
5mg/m3
Additives
<15
TWA FOR OIL MIST NOT ESTABLISHED
THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING CHEMICALS SUBJECT TO THE REPORTING REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION 313 TITLE III OF THE SUPERFUND AMENDMENTS AND REAUTHORIZATION ACT OF 1986 & 40 CFR PART 372.
2. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
BOILING POINT:
N/A
VOLATILE ORGANICS:
00
VAPOR DENSITY (AIR=1):
120
PERCENT VOLATILE:
00
VAPOR PRESSURE (mm HG):
000
PH:
00
EVAPORATION RATE:
N/A
MELTING POINT:
N/D
SOLUBILITY IN WATER:
Negligible
VISCOSITY:
800 SUS @ 100°F
SPECIFIC GRAVITY:
0.8
APPEARANCE AND ODOR:
Dark green gel / oil odor
3. FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD
FLASHPOINT AND TEST METHOD USED:
400°F COC
FLAMMABLE LIMITS:
LEL:
N/D
UEL:
N/D
EXTINGUISHING METHOD:
Dry chemical, foam, carbon dioxide
SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES:
Water may foam or cause frothing
UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS:
Empty containers may retain product residue including flammable or explosive vapors.
NFPA HAZARD CLASS:
HEALTH:
1
FIRE:
0
REACTIVITY:
0
4. REACTIVITY DATA
STABILITY:
Yes
HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION:
No
CONDITIONS TO AVOID:
None
MATERIALS TO AVOID:
None
HAZARDOUS DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS:
In fire it will decompose into unidentified organics
5. ENVIRONMENTAL DATA
SPILL RESPONSE:
Soak up material with an inert absorbent. Put into container. Dispose of as hazardous waste.
RECOMMENDED DISPOSAL:
Dispose of in accordance with the EPA/RCRA
PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN WHEN HANDLING OR STORING:
Do not expose to heat, sparks, flame, or any source of ignition. Do not store in temperatures exceeding 120°F

[Semper_Fi]

The hole shown in Semper Fi's pic above does not in any way expose
either the FD gearing or the rear universal. The 'plastic' you can see
is the (bottom of the) boot covering the universal. I've been using a lithium grease w/ a PTFE additive w/ good result for treating the ends of the boot prior to reassembly and have had no moisture evident in that area of the universal.


Dave Bogue
'08 R1200rt

Dave - thanks for the correction, when I saw your post i was really intrigued and went to check it out.

It took 10 minutes and 15 pictures - no lie - to get the two shots below.

Looks like if the boot is properly in place or replaced things should be good

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/Boot1.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/Boot2.jpg

[deilenberger]

And I think that's the point I've been trying to make. IF both boots are properly seated and sealed to the housings there should be no reason to drill a hole in the housing. You won't have significant moisture intrusion.

If you were really really concerned - putting a tiny hole in the bottom of one of the pleats of the rear-most boot (swing-arm to final-drive) would seem to suffice to allow any condensed moisture to drain.

I think with the boots in place correctly - it's a non-issue (and I've had my share of all-day rain rides.. no sign of moisture around my rear splines.)

[Semper_Fi]

Don - i agree, my concern is if you drill a hole to let water out, you let water in......

[RoboRider]

I just changed the final drive oil and the housing was dry as a bone. I use a small amount of Permatex non hardening gasket sealer (the liquid in a can with a brush) to coat the mating surfaces. It works great, and doesn't glue anything in place, is easy to remove and replace, and I have it here on the shelf. No water gets in on mine.

[Polarbear]

If you do your own sercvice like me, you'll be able to keep an eye on your ujoint for any moisture. Many have indeed had this issue of water to a large degree and one rider posted here months ago, with so much rust in there, it stuck in my mind. I DID the hole drilling and its no harm as I can tell right now. Water may go in the hole(minimal at best), but will equally drain as fast:). It cannot get "trapped" in there anymore, like some have had. Randy