K12S breaking camshafts!

[DarrylRi]

There is a story going around Europe that BMW has stopped production and withdrawn every K12S because of the possibility of breaking a camshaft.

I have a friend in Germany who has test ridden the K12S last week, and had signed up for a test ride at another dealership yesterday. His ride was cancelled when BMW pulled the bike from the dealer. The dealer told him about the camshafts. An acquaintance in Italy has said the same thing.

[sgborgstrom]

Well, isn't that interesting...

Spline wear(K)
surging (R)
surging AND stalling (F)
final drive failure(K again)
"soft" wheels

and now (alleged) camshaft failure. I'm sure there are more....

Makes you wonder who's doing product testing over at the company these days. There is certainly no good excuse for poor fuel injection/engine management or structural failures in this day and age.

On the other hand, I've been lucky so far with my bikes, from airheads to Ks to an R850 they've all been solid performers for me. But I like to work on 'em so they've all come apart for service in my garage on a regular basis...Though the 850 doesn't see much use and my K is from 1991 so it's a few models old. Old school wins again?

Steve

[BEinIN]

Hummm..... I guess the hollow cams may not be up to the duty required of them. :brow

BE in IN

[Visian]

Wow... hope this isn't true.

There were a lot of CAD renderings of this model in the press kit BMW distributed.

I wonder what brand of simulation software they used to engineer the bike's moving parts?

Depending on the nature of the failure, this is the type of problem that good software can help to avoid.

Or, like the bearings in the LT rear drives... it's a manufacturing defect that a supplier can be blamed for! ;)

Sure hope this is a problem that they can fix with a part swap... perhaps they can make the mod while they're addressing the gearbox issue (which is apparently why the bike's US debut has been delayed until November...)

Ian

[DarrylRi]

The camshafts on this bike take a lot more force than on your typical UJM. Only one cam is driven, with the other driven from the first. The water pump is driven off the second cam, as I recall. All of these forces are off to one side or the other.

[sgborgstrom]

I find it interesting how quickly these problems show up after the bikes are released. I would think that as a manufacturer one would have a small fleet of test riders "Ride it like you stole it" for several thousand miles each just to make sure things like the cams (or FI) are up to the task.

BMW's testing process clearly has some issues to resolve be they hands-on or software modeling....Wonder what Honda uses and does BMW suffer similar issues in the car division?

Steve

[DarrylRi]

Honda's not immune. It didn't take long after the new Gold Wing came out that reports of frame cracking started to show up. Similarly, HD has had ongoing problems with the cam bearings on their twin cam models. If you read Motorcycle Consumer News, you know that, if anything, HD has been hiding their head in the sand as much as BMW.

It's simply not fair to compare bikes with cars. Bikes are built in far smaller quantities than cars, and have much less profit margin to them.

Even so, manufacturers ought to stand up behind their products once they're in the field.

[YB in IN]

Originally posted by DarrylRi

Even so, manufacturers ought to stand up behind their products once they're in the field.

It's sounds to me like thats exactly what they are doing. They are doing the reponsible thing by pulling a product off the market that they know is less than stellar, rather than trying to pass it off onto the consumer.

[jdiaz]

Anyone ever heard of broken camshafts on K100's? Its happened, usually when the mechanic changing the shim accidentally lets the tool fall out so that the valve spring slams the new shim into the cam.....after a couple hundred thousand more rotations the cam fails. Usually on the number four cylinder, since the end is not supported.

Dave McQueeney tells a great story about this. He rode out to the Chicago Region rally from CA, and his bike started running on three cylinders. Everyone checked his bike out.....couldn't find anything wrong, so he rode it 2500 miles back home, only to find a broken cam section. :D

[DarrylRi]

Originally posted by YB in IN
It's sounds to me like thats exactly what they are doing. They are doing the reponsible thing by pulling a product off the market that they know is less than stellar, rather than trying to pass it off onto the consumer. I guess I wasn't clear, but I agree with you that BMW is doing the right thing.

BTW, my friend didn't notice any low speed FI problems; maybe BMW has already spent the time to fix that.

[dlearl476]

Originally posted by sgborgstrom
Well, isn't that interesting...

Spline wear(K)
surging (R)
surging AND stalling (F)
final drive failure(K again)
"soft" wheels

and now (alleged) camshaft failure. I'm sure there are more....

Makes you wonder who's doing product testing over at the company these days. There is certainly no good excuse for poor fuel injection/engine management or structural failures in this day and age.

On the other hand, I've been lucky so far with my bikes, from airheads to Ks to an R850 they've all been solid performers for me. But I like to work on 'em so they've all come apart for service in my garage on a regular basis...Though the 850 doesn't see much use and my K is from 1991 so it's a few models old. Old school wins again?

Steve

And don't forget the "Scarver" has been permanently recalled due to a supplier casting, not forging the steering head, which could possibly result in injury if run into a curb. Is that NOT the dumbest thing you've ever heard of????
Caution:Riding this into a curb could cause injury.. DUH! I guess they're not counting on many Scarver owners being too smart. Then again, $1K+ for a glorified skateboard, I could have told them that!

[MCohen]

Originally posted by dlearl
And don't forget the "Scarver" has been permanently recalled...

Just so no one gets confused, the "Slidecarver" has been recalled. The "Scarver" is the name given to the F650CS which doesn't have a steering head problem (as far as I know).

Michael

[dlearl476]

Originally posted by M. Cohen
Just so no one gets confused, the "Slidecarver" has been recalled. The "Scarver" is the name given to the F650CS which doesn't have a steering head problem (as far as I know).

Michael

Thanks Michael. Late night!

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by DarrylRi
HD has had ongoing problems with the cam bearings on their twin cam models. If you read Motorcycle Consumer News, you know that, if anything, HD has been hiding their head in the sand as much as BMW.



I had one of the HD TC88's that had the cam bearings go bad. While HD would not issue a recall, they did fix the problem free with no hassle to me, no questions. They did send a letter to all TC88 registered owners advising them that there was a very slight chance that the cam bearings might go bad. They extended my engine warranty 5 years or 50,000 miles.

While they should have issued a recall in my opinion, at least HD Motor Company did the right thing to fix it without causing me any grief over the process. From what I've heard about some issues on BMW motorcycles and the response of BMW NA, I'd say BMW could learn a lesson from HD on customer service from the company.

[volkmare]

Someone questioned the strength of hollow camshafts.

All cams that i have delt with are hollow. That is how the oil gets to the cam face. That is, through a hole in the heal of each lobe.

I have changed and timed a lot of K-bike cams, both factory, and hard-faced, yet i have never seen a broken one. Even on K-engines that I have run at 11,000rpm. I guess i'm lucky.

Besides, a hollow cam would be more rigid than a solid one.

mark

[MarkF]

Originally posted by Mudbug
I had one of the HD TC88's that had the cam bearings go bad. While HD would not issue a recall, they did fix the problem free with no hassle to me, no questions. They did send a letter to all TC88 registered owners advising them that there was a very slight chance that the cam bearings might go bad. They extended my engine warranty 5 years or 50,000 miles.

While they should have issued a recall in my opinion, at least HD Motor Company did the right thing to fix it without causing me any grief over the process. From what I've heard about some issues on BMW motorcycles and the response of BMW NA, I'd say BMW could learn a lesson from HD on customer service from the company.

That's great! If you make it to 5 years or 50,000 miles with our defective product then you are on your own. And until it goes bad you can ride that ticking time bomb cross country on vacation.

Thats the legendary HD reliability we all know. Ah, nastalgia.

MarkF

[riderR1150GSAdv]

Like with anything new coming out, there will be a few things that need to be worked on. This camshaft issue is just one of them. BMW did the right thing and pulled the bike of the market. Perhaps they finally listened to all of us whining about all that was wrong, and with their new flagship sportbike they want to be sure it is 100% this time, or so I hope.:dunno
Anyway I can't wait to get my hands on one as I am one of 12 guys at my dealer with a deposit on one.
Yup I did it, go ahead, flame job is expected :D :D .It is a refundable deposit though:cat