Headlight mods/upgrades on a wedge GT

[Gilly]

I have a thread going on a K-Bike.com forum, thought I would ask here, for those who might not frequent that site.
My 07 GT came without Xenon, so I found a great deal (really cheap) on a Xenon kit. It has the 4300K color range, which is what the car manufacturers normally spec, nice white color. It is also rated at 35W, which is what BMW calls for on their own Xenon option.
This should help a lot, but I am thinking about upgrading the high beam as well. These are H7 bulbs rated at 55W from the factory, Xenon option or not.
There is so much info out there on different types of H7 performance bulbs that it'll make your head spin. Gets really confusing really fast.
What makes the most sense to me might pose a risk, so was going to poll others about it before I act.
Idea is to replace the stock H7's with Osram "Ultra High Output" 65W bulbs.
10W higher than stock, but the Xenon is rated at 35W, whereas the stock low beam is also 55W, so I am going down 20W on the low beam but adding 10W/ea with the high beams (which of course wouldn't be on 100% of the time either).
BUT of course the headlight ass'm is pricey and rather not having it running like a waterfall onto the front fender;).
Hoping I can get away with this but wondering if others have done anything similar to their bike. I'd rather just get what I can out of the stock headlight and not add aux lights to it.

Gilly

[Gilly]

Oh as an add-on question, does anyone know if the headlight assembly is essentially the same between the standard halogen and the Xenon (optional headlight)?
Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

The optical reflector geometry for Xenon and Halogen is different.

In regards to the question of the higher wattage bulb, my concern would be if the bulb socket and surrounding lamp area can withstand the additional heat.

More watts = more heat

10 more watts is 18% over rating

also how often do you use the high beams? for me its usually flash to pass

[Gilly]

Quite a bit, early morning commute. Rest of the day, never. But want to see deer before they see me :brow

[Gilly]

Assuming your's has Xenon, can you post a pic of the inside of the headlight, say if you were just to walk to the front of the bike and take a pic of the headlight, camera facing down towards the headlight? I could post a picture of my halogen and we can compare.
Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

Give me a few minutes........

[Gilly]

Here is one view of mine:

[Gilly]

Slightly different view:

[Gilly]

Had to spiff the headlight up a little. This was the last thing a LOT of bugs ever saw!
Would like to see if we can really spot a difference in the reflector shape.
I would take comfort a little in knowing that the materials used are the same between the 2, but we might not be able to figure that out.
My concern is your concern (times 10!), I don't want to wreck the headlight doing this.
I'm fairly confident the wiring will handle the extra 10W per high beam without throwing a code;shutting off the lights due to increased load. But would like to be sure that the heat of the xenon plus the 65W bulbs won't hurt the housing. The lenses I would be pretty sure are the same material.

Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

Assuming your's has Xenon, can you post a pic of the inside of the headlight, say if you were just to walk to the front of the bike and take a pic of the headlight, camera facing down towards the headlight? I could post a picture of my halogen and we can compare.
Gilly

Yes Xenon - due to downloading issues I need to post the pictures of the head light in seperate posts

I tried to capture all the geometry of the reflectors for you

Below is looking at the head lamp at a 90 degree angle to the throttle side

[Semper_Fi]

From the front

[Semper_Fi]

Clutch side

[Semper_Fi]

Last one - from the bottom looking up

[Gilly]

I'll try to match that one, only reverse image:

[Semper_Fi]

Gilly - from reviewing your pictures and mine - the overall geometry at first blush is very very similar.

My only thought on this is that BMW designed it so that the reflector geometry will support both types of bulbs.

Luis

[Gilly]

Thanks for your efforts Luis. I am coming to the same conclusion.
Do you happen to know where the BMW Xenon ballast (control unit?) is located on the factory unit? That will also be a concern, I don't know if that gets hot also. I kow where they GET located on the aftermarket, I want to do a "clean" installation.
Still don't know if the 65W highbeams are worth the risk. I did have an higher rated halogen on my 87 K75 until it failed (after about 10 yrs!), no side effects.
Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

Not a problem - glad to help.

I think I vaguely remember a high voltage warning sticker when I took the front plastic off.

Below is a picture out of the repair manual

Item 7 is the Control module and item 3 is the Xenon bulb - hope it helps

[Gilly]

What will be interesting to see is if there is an area for the factory control unit to be, as can be seen in the illustration you posted.
This would still not guarantee anything, as the reflector assembly is a different part from the outer shell.
They could use the same shell for both, then install the provisions for the control unit depending on which reflector is used.
Obviously the reflector is different, if for no other reason than the "XENON" lettering on the right side of the low beam reflector (that you see through the lense).
I would also think that area where the Xenon bulb unit attaches is different. The black square "thing" on the back of the bulb (probably called the ballast?) must be held in with the spring clip they show (the spring clip or "bail" is another difference). So to me it's obvious the reflector is somewhat different. My ballast is a pod-type inline unit, not part of the bulb or at least attached to the bulb. So it will be interesting to do it.
I take some comfort in the fact that the low beam reflector shape seems identical or at least really close between the two bikes. The high beam would almost have to be the same as they use the same bulbs. Maybe.
Also I believe the orientation of the element in the halogen H7 bulb would be the same as the arc inside the Xenon bulb (longitudinal is respect to the bike).
One other area I am not sure about though, is it looks like the Factory Xenon is being inserted into a capsule of some sort with a dark colored tip. I believe the aftermarket Xenon I am getting may have a gray tip similar to an H7 bulb, but this still might affect the beam pattern I am afraid.

Gilly

[Gilly]

Yeah the more I think about it, the bigger a problem I see, but i do tend to overthink things sometimes.
Luis, can you tell by looking what the "gray blob" in front of the xenon bulb is? Does it look like it's held there on small metal legs or more like a test tube with a gray painted end? I am thinking it's a reflector, that faces the bulb, from the outside it looks like dull gray paint.

Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

Gilly - on the road responding on black berry so this will be a very long sentence. Anyway I checked the gray thing it does look a reflector that fits over the bulb, there appears to be three detents spaced 120 degrees which maybe how the reflector is mounted into the housing. Of interest the bottom half od the reflector has no opening between 4 and 8 o'clock while the "top" side has notches and slots cut open. You may want to check the fiche on Max BMW site and see if the reflector is shown in the hedlamp assembly exploded view.

Luis

[Gilly]

Luis
Thanks. I am thinking a seperate part is not available, but I will look. I usually rely on realoem.com. same pages I am sure as Max.
It will probably come down to installing the kit and possibly coming up with a BMW headlight used at some point, will have to watch for deals. I can't cough up $500+ for a new headlight now. Lot's of guys have added these kits without a problem it seems like.

Gilly

[cjack]

Everybody know about this EPC on line by BMW Motorrad?

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html

Click on the WEB EPC at the top and scroll down. Instructions there.

[Gilly]

I use realoem.com
no username or password to use (BTW the username or password doesn't work on bmwmotorcycles.com website).
I believe the info is the same.

Gilly

[Gilly]

Luis
Hey check out this picture. Where the bulb enters the reflector area, has those 3 small cutouts speced 120 degrees apart, if you look in your headlight, does it look like the shield in front of the bulb attaches to those same 3 areas? I might be able to make a shield so the xenon doesn't irritate other drivers. Actually it would be my brother and I, he is an excellent sheetmetal fabricator, could probably come up with something made of stainless steel.
If you want to try to get a similar picture. that would be great. I had a heck of a time getting this shot, I think the camera sensed the clear lense and didn't want to focus on the base of the bulb. Finally I shut off the LCD screen and used the old fashioned optical viewfinder, that finally worked. No idea how to manually focus my digital camera!
Thanks
Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

Gilly - been out for the weekend - I was able to take some pictures, you're not kidding it is easy to take!!

This one is from the right side (as your looking at the bike)

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05729.jpg

This one is from the left

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05730.jpg

This one if from the left side different angle
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05735.jpg

This one is from the right with a different angle
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05739.jpg

I can't angle the camera enough not to get flash-back from the reflector to capture the top side of the reflector cut out clearly.

Let me know if this works for you, if not I will try something else.

Luis

[Gilly]

That's probably all I need to see, really. I don't think I can get quite that fancy, I have a few different ideas now anyways.
Thanks again. If I can pull off making a shield I will get info and pics on how I made that, too, assuming everything works OK.
I think the optics are OK for either bulb, it's the shield and how the bulb fits that's the real difference it seems like. The xenon bulb I am getting will be for a H7 headlamp assembly though.
With my brothers help I think I can get something that will be an improvement over the stock H7 low beam and not bother other people. WELL at least normal people, I know you probably get flashed just because it's xenon, even though it's a factory headlight.
Amazing the xenon works so much better with all that shielding around it!

Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

That's an interesting point about being flashed - I haven't yet. The light hits most cars right at the trunk line so it is properly dipped. Something to consider. Good luck on your project.

[Gilly]

Something to consider in terms of what? Making sure I adjust the beam properly, or "yeah you better make a shield"?

One (edit: OK a couple)question, can you see how far the tip of the bulb goes in to the "cup" on the end? Or does it end in the cut out area? have to try to make sure I have the size and spacing right, doesn't look like the kind of thing you could take out and measure.
Maybe you could make a sketch, might work better than a picture.
I think the one I make will have to be narrower than stock to fit through the hole.
OH and does it look like the whole shield is that dull black color, inside and out?

Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

Something to consider in terms of what? Making sure I adjust the beam properly, or "yeah you better make a shield"?

Make sure it's adjusted properly


One (edit: OK a couple)question, can you see how far the tip of the bulb goes in to the "cup" on the end? Or does it end in the cut out area? have to try to make sure I have the size and spacing right, doesn't look like the kind of thing you could take out and measure.
Maybe you could make a sketch, might work better than a picture.
I think the one I make will have to be narrower than stock to fit through the hole.
OH and does it look like the whole shield is that dull black color, inside and out?

Gilly

Will see what I can do when I get home......:lurk

[Gilly]

Sounds good, just make sure you wash your hands before handling the headlight :lurk
;)

[Semper_Fi]

Something to consider in terms of what? Making sure I adjust the beam properly, or "yeah you better make a shield"?

One (edit: OK a couple)question, can you see how far the tip of the bulb goes in to the "cup" on the end?

It appears to be 1/2 way

Or does it end in the cut out area?

Just about real close - did not take headlamp out

have to try to make sure I have the size and spacing right, doesn't look like the kind of thing you could take out and measure.

Taking the headlight assembly off is not as easy as on the RT so I just looked around


I think the one I make will have to be narrower than stock to fit through the hole.

The D1R bulb is thinner and different geometry than the H7


OH and does it look like the whole shield is that dull black color, inside and out?

It appears to be the same color all over.

[Gilly]

OK I'll assume the cut out is open just above where the arc is (between the electrodes, which are inside the glass tube.

What I meant by the "narrower than stock" is this shield i want to make, will need to be a smaller diameter than what you have. Mine will have to go through the same hole in which the bulb goes into the headlight. Your shield I am sure was put on the reflector beofe the lense was put on, it will be larger than mine can be. I don't believe the outer lens is something I want to try to take off.

I don't think the geometery is different on the bulb. The xenon bulb I get might have a slightly different position for the arc (in or out) than the stock bulb, as mine will have an H7 base. That of course can change the geometery for the direction the beam will take inside the headlight as well as outside. Since the reflector shape seems to be the same I am hoping for the best.
Gilly

[cjack]

If the kit is to replace an H7, then won't it be good without any additional shields?

[Semper_Fi]

CJack brings up a good question - are you replacing the Halogen H7's with HID H7's?

The Xenon Bulb I have is a D1R, and the bulb geometry is different than an H7 being that the D1R is thinner. At least they appear to be when I was searching on the web.......

This is a great thread - hope it works out for you Gilly :thumb

[Gilly]

Initially I thought the same, just pop it in. I've had posts on other forums of GT owners who have done just that. It's a popular item, too bad mine didn't come with it. I think later on it bacame almost standard equipment in the US anyways. So, I wouldn't be the first or last to just install it.
My whole problem is I want to make it function as well as stock, without getting flashed and more importantly, to not pi$$ people off.
OK, so you can actually see the problem. The problem will be that there is no glare shield on my bike. I would say this is omitted on the halogen, because if you look at the pic of my bulb, the stock H7 bulbs have that dark spot painted on the end of the glass.
The Xenon bulb won't have that, there is the external wire that leads to the front of the bulb (makes the outer part of the electrode pair) and they don't do that paint thing on them.
So instead BMW puts this metal shield inside the headlight, see Luis' pictures. That dark painted thing isn't part of the bulb, it's part of the headlight. I want to try to replicate that if I can. My brother is an excellent welder. My idea is using a metal tube, have my brother fabricate a base for the tube which would mimmic an H7 base, this will go between the headlight and Xenon H7 bulb, so the bulb will in effect be holding the shield in place. Weld a cap on the end facing forward. Cut or grind an opening for the light (probably just one large square opening in the top half, leaving the forward part closed up, so just an opening approx on top of where the arc will be, I don't think I have to be quite as exacting, it will be better than doing nothing).
The Xenon bulb that comes with this kit has an H7 base on it instead of the type manufacturers use. It's really a Xenon HID bulb, just a funky base so it works in a H7 headlight.
I am somewhat bolstered by the reflector looking the same between the real Xenon headlight and mine. If there is a difference I believe it to be pretty minor.

[Gilly]

OH and again I would disagree the geometery is different, unless the reflector really is different, which I doubt, but I would agree it would be a problem if the bulb capsule was moved forward or aft a "lot". Others will also tell you the arc is different than a incandescent filament, etc etc. Well fooey, I'm trying it.
Stubborn.
Hope nothing melts though...
I can put it back to stock if it doesn't work out, but from reports I hear, it works out fine. This particular kit I bough was recommended by another GT owner who says it has been working fine for a couple years now.
I DO have to make sure I get this colored black though, as you don't want the beam reflected back by the shield, it needs to be black to absorb the light, not reflect it back to the bulb as this will shorten bulb life.
Thinking high temp engine paint?
Powder coating would probably be best I suppose.

Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

More pictures

This is the "power" base of the bulb as mounted on the back of the headlight assembly housing

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05800.jpg

Sideview of the bulb assembly as it is removed from the housing assembly

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05801.jpg

Inside reflector #1

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05803.jpg

Inside reflector #2

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/Semper_Fi_LR/1300KGT/Headlamp/DSC05804.jpg

[Gilly]

TOO cool! Thanks much, I can definitely see how BMW does it now!
Since my headlight will need to remain as it is, my plan is to make a metal base so it drops in the same area that my headlight bulb drops in to.
Attached to that (welded) will be the largest diameter tube (stainless or aluminum) that will pass in to the headlight through the headlamp bulb hole.
I will get a round cap welded to the end of that tube.
Instead of the strange openings you have on yours, I will have the top half of the circumference of the tube removed. Might try doing those 2 slots on the bottom of the tube also.
Possibly get the whole thing finished in a dull black powdercoat.

Gilly

[Semper_Fi]

Another thought is see if Beemer boneyard may have any light assemblies and you can get the shield.

Just a thought......

[Gilly]

Not sure if the shield would "transplant" onto the back of a halogen reflector headlight.
IF they had a xenon headlight with a smashed outer lense, I would be willing to try to seperate my lense and rear cover to install the reflector. I'll try them.
Gilly