pure-gas.org needs your favorite station!

[astrin]

If you buy ethanol-free gas, please enter the station at pure-gas.org. We're starting to get more entries from more states, but the site is a long, long way from having a useful database for North American touring.

http://pure-gas.org

Thanks! (This is a repost of a thread I started in Clubhouse before the forum reorganization.)

Note: please do not post your station to this thread. That doesn't accomplish anything. Use the "Add Station" tool on pure-gas.org so everyone can see it and load it into their GPS device!

[lkchris]

Since Federal law REQUIRES ethanol in gasoline to a certain percentage per distributor, there isn't much future for this.

[astrin]

Well, at least for now we have lots and lots of stations in certain areas that serve pure gasoline. When it vanishes, we'll move on. For the time being, it's nice to have a list of places where we can buy it.

[ragtoplvr]

An exception seems to be the Indian reservations or nations. Around here in the Wyandotte Nation, there are lots of station advertising pure gasoline. They get to issue their own license tags, have their own police, and make cigarettes. And of course casinos.

Rod

[lkchris]

An exception seems to be the Indian reservations or nations. Around here in the Wyandotte Nation, there are lots of station advertising pure gasoline. They get to issue their own license tags, have their own police, and make cigarettes. And of course casinos.

Rod

Yes, we once had this on the fringes of Albuquerque, but they seem to have given up.

Unless they own their own refinery this doesn't look good for the future either, as it will be tough for them to convince local oil companies to make them a "special blend" IMHO.

[Paul_F]

In Ontario, the Shell high test has no ethanol.

[astrin]

In Ontario, the Shell high test has no ethanol.

That's good to know, Paul, but doesn't help folks that go to pure-gas.org. If you know of some Ontario Shell stations, I'd hugely appreciate it if you could enter them into pure-gas.org. We've yet to have any Canadian stations entered.

The site is starting to pick up steam, to mix fuel metaphors - it now has entries from AL CO FL ID MD MN MS NM NY SC SD TN TX WI.

I'd like to remind folks the site automatically generates a POI CSV file containing all of the stations' GPS data - so you can load your GPS unit with ethanol-free stations with a simple file download and upload to your GPS!

If you're old school (like me) and don't use GPS, it makes a pretty compact printer-friendly version, per state/province, to stuff in your map bag.

[dadayama]

About half the stations in the Oklahoma City area have pure gas... I'll try to find some close to the highways. I have traveled to neighboring states and noticed that they don't advertise the type of gas... i thought it must be an Oklahoma thing. Good to hear others are labeling as well.

[astrin]

Hi, folks, just a bump to let you know that

http://pure-gas.org

has been receiving a LOT of station submissions in recent weeks, and is becoming more and more useful with several coming in every day.

Be sure to post up your favorite ethanol-free gas station if you haven't already. Thanks much!

[kthutchinson]

Since Federal law REQUIRES ethanol in gasoline to a certain percentage per distributor, there isn't much future for this.

No, it ALLOWS up to 10% ethanol in products sold as gasoline.

[marchyman]

Hi, folks, just a bump to let you know that

http://pure-gas.org

has been receiving a LOT of station submissions in recent weeks, and is becoming more and more useful with several coming in every day.

Don't know that I believe the entries. It lists, for example, Chevron stations. But Chevron meets "Top Tier" standards according to their PR. Top Tier requires no less than 8% and no more than 10% ethanol.

Someone isn't telling the truth. Chevron? The stations? The people reporting stations as selling "pure gas"?

[GregFeeler]

Don't know that I believe the entries. It lists, for example, Chevron stations. But Chevron meets "Top Tier" standards according to their PR. Top Tier requires no less than 8% and no more than 10% ethanol.

Someone isn't telling the truth. Chevron? The stations? The people reporting stations as selling "pure gas"?

Interesting. I didn't realize that "Top Tier" required ethanol, but you are right: www.toptiergas.com.

[stkmkt1]

I just entered the first station in Illinois on the list yesterday. I too did not realize "Top Tier" requires ethanol.

[astrin]

Don't know that I believe the entries. It lists, for example, Chevron stations. But Chevron meets "Top Tier" standards according to their PR. Top Tier requires no less than 8% and no more than 10% ethanol.

Someone isn't telling the truth. Chevron? The stations? The people reporting stations as selling "pure gas"?

Yeah, it's not by any means guaranteed that a station posted to pure-gas.org is truly selling pure gas. It's honor system, and I think it's been working pretty well. If not, it's a shame, because it certainly does no one any good to have inaccurate data on the site. However, there is a means to update listings with a comment saying that they no longer sell pure gas, or that the listing is incorrect. I can remove them from the site when that happens (and someone lets me know).

I didn't know that "Top Tier" required ethanol, either. The stuff I'd read about "Top Tier" didn't mention ethanol at all. Thanks for pointing that out.

[kenk]

Although gas stations are no longer required to place a label on their pumps on whether their gas has ethanol or not here in Kansas, the majority of gas stations in Kansas are ethanol free. The majority also state on their pumps whether they are ethanol or not.

Just about every 87 octane pump is ethanol free. I say just about every because its not illegal to place ethanol in an 87 octane pump. Most of the premium fuels over 91 octance are ethanol free. The ethanol is usually the 89 octane fuel, but not always. A sure way to know is the ethanol is government subsidized, so the 89 octane ethanol is usually a few cents cheaper than the 87 octane regular gas.

The bottom line is its very easy to avoid ethanol in Kansas. Kansas is not a big producer of ethanol. We only have ten stills. So, there's not a big movement like Nebraska or the Dakota to place it in every pump. When you consider the fact a large number of these stills are out of business or going out of business, ethanol is produced in much less quantity than the government mandates in regulation.

[marchyman]

Just about every 87 octane pump is ethanol free. I say just about every because its not illegal to place ethanol in an 87 octane pump. Most of the premium fuels over 91 octance are ethanol free. The ethanol is usually the 89 octane fuel, but not always. A sure way to know is the ethanol is government subsidized, so the 89 octane ethanol is usually a few cents cheaper than the 87 octane regular gas.

:confused:

89 gas is often made by mixing the stuff from the 87 tank with the stuff from the 91 tank. Do they not do that in Kansas? I think (not positive here) that pretty much every pump with a single hose is a mix or blending pump.

And again, if it is a top tier brand then even their 87 has between 8% and 10% ethanol. That includes all Chevron, Texico, Conoco, Phillips 66, 76, Shell, and others.

[kenk]

:confused:

89 gas is often made by mixing the stuff from the 87 tank with the stuff from the 91 tank. Do they not do that in Kansas? I think (not positive here) that pretty much every pump with a single hose is a mix or blending pump.

And again, if it is a top tier brand then even their 87 has between 8% and 10% ethanol. That includes all Chevron, Texico, Conoco, Phillips 66, 76, Shell, and others.

Interesting question. All the gas station I know of in our local area that sell ethanol (whether 85% or 10%) do so with pumps that have separate hoses. All the single hose stations in the area don't sell ethanol. Not all pumps are the same. Some pumps may blend where others have separate tanks for each octane of fuel. If you're buying gas at a pump that uses the same hose with separate tanks, you will get whatever is in the hose first, before the octane blend you choose. I avoid all gas stations with single hoses, since I use higher octane premium gas in most of my bikes and prefer to get the higher octane in all the fuel I purchase.

Ethanol requires for viability three competing requirements; cheap corn, high oil prices and government subsidies. With corn around $4 a bushel and crude oil down to around $70 a barrel, only government subsidies keep the stills from going bust. With the environmental movement turning against ethanol, IMHO its only a matter of time before subsidies are cut and ethanol in its current form is history.

Ethanol is not commonly used when you leave the Midwest corn states. When I lived in Washington DC, it was unavailable. During my travels last year to over 40 states, I can tell you it was hard to find regular fuel without ethanol in some corn states, with ethanol unavailable in the vast majority of other states. Even though fuel stations are not required to state whether ethanol is used in a pump in many states, ethanol as a commodity is in limited supply. You simply can't grow enough corn to meet the demand, without increasing the price of the commodity to a point where food prices are going through roof. We witnessed this just a few years ago wihen corn was $10 a bushel.

[lkchris]

No, it ALLOWS up to 10% ethanol in products sold as gasoline.

Keep reading, you'll eventually get it.

http://www.ethanol.org/index.php?id=78&parentid=26

[deilenberger]

Ethanol is not commonly used when you leave the Midwest corn states. Gee - I wish you'd tell all the eastern states where enthanol is required - like NJ. I've travelled recently in NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, WDC, VA, NC and SC - and can't recall a single station I got fuel at that didn't have ethanol laced fuel.

I guess that means they're shipping the stuff from the states that produce it eh?

[CarolinaRT]

Just added another station. Great resource.

Since ADM has $2 billion invested in ethanol plants and plenty of congressmen willing to listen to them, we'll have ethanol for years to come. Ethanol producers are still pushing the EPA to increase the mandate to 15% content this year. It's definitely the wrong thing to do so you can do the math.

[kenk]

Gee - I wish you'd tell all the eastern states where enthanol is required - like NJ. I've travelled recently in NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, WDC, VA, NC and SC - and can't recall a single station I got fuel at that didn't have ethanol laced fuel.

I guess that means they're shipping the stuff from the states that produce it eh?

You're obviously exaggerating. Even though ethanol has now reached 9,600,000 million gallons a year, this is only a small faction of the total number of gallons of gas used yearly in the US.

In 2004, the United States consumed about 140 billion gallons of gasoline, more than any other country. Consumption averages about 380 million gallons of gasoline per day in 2004 and is reaching 400 million gallons per day in 2006. The 3.4 billion gallons of ethanol produced in 2004 represent about 2% of gasoline consumption. The 75 million gallons of biodiesel produced in 2005 represent a tiny fraction of roughly 40 billion gallons of diesel used each year for on-road transportation. (Sources: Annual Energy Outlook 2006 and U.S. Heating Oil, Diesel Fuel, And Distillate Data from the Energy Information Administration)

Distribution is hindered by its inability to use pipelines. Due to this reason, ethanol is used less in none producing states.

Can ethanol be used by existing fuel-distribution infrastructure? Due to transportation difficulties, its not commonly used when you leave the midwest.

Ethanol and gasoline-ethanol blends cannot be transported by existing pipelines that carry gasoline. Water present in petroleum pipelines can pull ethanol out and cause ethanol-gasoline blends to separate into two phases. Ethanol must be transported by train, barge, or truck within an independent distribution system to ensure handling separate from the ethanol-production facility to distribution terminals, where ethanol is blended with gasoline just before delivery to retail stations.

[enfoman]

" Water present in petroleum pipelines can pull ethanol out and cause ethanol-gasoline blends to separate into two phases."

I have first hand experience in this area when over the summer Phase change happened in my antique car gas tank. This is Ugly and jelly. Not good for any fuel system. Since then I sought out a 100% gas pump and have been using it. Yeah it cost a bit more but the advantages are worth it IMO.

[CarolinaRT]

In 2008, US ethanol production was 9 BILLION gallons. Gasoline production is also high but 9 billion divided by anything is still a sizeable percentage. Just imagine how much corn is takes to make 9 Billion gallons of anything.

Industry site:
www.ethanolrfa.org/industry/statistics/#A

[breyfogle]

.... but 9 billion divided by anything is still a sizeable percentage. ...

??? Math was obviously not your strongest subject in school.

[astrin]

Hi, folks, just a bump to let you know that the posts to pure-gas.org have been coming fast and furious, we now have over 250 stations listed and it's growing by up to 10 stations a day. Plus, I have a few lists to bulk enter, I'll try to get those in soon.

So, as riding season gets underway in the northern states, and is underway as always in the southern states, be sure to check pure-gas.org if you like to fuel your bike with ethanol-free gas. And please enter any stations that you come across in your travels!

[tourunigo]

don't forget, as you make your summer plans, that all of Atlantic Canada is ethanol free. - Bob

[BlueStreak]

Gentlemen,

How about a poll to settle this? Something like ...

My philosophy on motorcycling is best represented by which of the following statements (choose one):

1. So many motorcycles, so little time.

2. So little pure gas, so much time.

[astrin]

Well, the way pure-gas.org has been growing lately, I'd say you need a third option:

3. So many motorcycles, so much pure gas, so little time!

[rocketman]

You're obviously exaggerating. Even though ethanol has now reached 9,600,000 million gallons a year, this is only a small faction of the total number of gallons of gas used yearly in the US.

[/I]
Actually he's not, I too live on the eastern seaboard and travel extenvisely here and can only think of one station that sold pure gas in the Mid-Atlantic region, 10% is more the norm than not.

RM

[wkottd]

If your going to be in Minnesota, the Minnesota street rod association (MSRA) has an excellent list of stations selling non oxygenated fuel. The list is updated every 4 months.
You can find it at:
http://www.msra.com/NonOxygenatedFuel/NonOxyListFeb2010.pdf
Bill

[astrin]

Much appreciated, Bill, I've asked one of that club's members if they have that data in a spreadsheet so I can load it directly into the pure-gas.org database. It's a bit of a daunting task to key it all in off of the PDF!