Does your R80 wiggle?

[SkyRider]

Hi,

While test riding a 1983 R80, I did notice a "wiggle" while entering turns at moderate or high speeds. It felt to me as though a bearing was loose or worn, perhaps a wheel or swing arm bearing. I was not getting on or off the throttle.

Getting the bike back to the shop, I tried wiggling the wheels and swingarm, and the bearings seemed good. I wonder if this is a normal trait. I have not felt it in other bikes. Perhaps that is why BMW went to bigger fork tubes in 1984?

Cheers, Len S

[20774]

Check:

- tire pressures front and rear
- proper shock action in rear
- too much weight in rear aft of rear axle
- top box mounted up and aft of the rear axle
- confirm proper fluid levels in front forks
- with the front wheel off the ground, do the forks rapidly move to the stops when lightly pushed from the straight-ahead position? If yes, then bearings too loose. If the forks are sluggish to the point they don't move when nudged either direction, then the bearings are too tight.
- is there a notch in the bearings in the straight-ahead position? You might be able to feel it when moving the bars through center.
- is the grease in the steering bearings from 1983? If so, it could be hardened giving you this unusual feeling.

You're location is NJ and PA. Are you aware of Tom Cutter's shop in Yardley, PA? He know Airheads inside and out.

[UberXY]

My monoshock R65 will wiggle if the front air pressure goes down. Spec pressure fixes it everytime.

[shire2000]

There are lots of possible answers to the wiggle issue. If you can tell which end is doing the wiggling, it really can help. Even though, sometimes a problem at one end, will appear to the rider as coming from the other end.

Usual suspects are tires, proper pressures and tread types that match. And rear shocks. If it has the original rear shocks, they would be 26 years old and well beyond their life expectancy. Good quality new shocks will make the world of difference.

When I bought my present R100RT from previous owner, it had the original rear shocks, although he had recently upgraded the front forkks with progressive springs and new oil. Found out as he had pinched a seal and I had to take that apart. I found the bike to wiggle and to be down right dangerous in corners at speed, and in rain I just could nto ride it. Installed new rear shocks and it now handles like a dream. Solid and safe. Best $300 investment I made on this one.

[robsryder]

Check the easy stuff first. The easiest is the tire pressure. Then the rear swingarm bearing (it helps if you have the 27mm socket that has been turned down a wee bit). Then the front steering bearing. Wheel bearings afterwards.

Clean, inspect, lubricate, and adjust. Replace as necessary.

Once I got through that process with my RS (including suspension) it rides like it is on rails (i.e., very stable).

[jforgo]

Not one of my airheads came with properly lubed and adjusted steering head bearings.

[SkyRider]

I do know for a fact that the steering head bearing has a slight notch in the center positon.

The rest of the bearings seemed to be ok.

I'll get out to the bike next week, and I have just what I wanted - a checklist from experienced riders, thanks.

The bike does have koni rears, I don't know how old. But, I did not wiggle them.

Till next week, but keep the thought comming!

Len S

[SkyRider]

You're location is NJ and PA. Are you aware of Tom Cutter's shop in Yardley, PA? He know Airheads inside and out.

No I was not aware, but thanks for the resource - and the checklist too!

Cheers,
Len S

[swall]

If you can actually feel a notch in the head bearings when you move the handle bars with the front wheel off the ground, they are gone and need to replaced. That would be the first thing to fix.

[shire2000]

The steering head bearings may not be actually gone. Quite often they just need a very good cleaning and new grease. As these bearings do not get all that much use, in that they do not get rotated constantly, the grease quite often solidifies and as they are only used thru a small part of the arc will give the feeling of nothiness. Take them out do the thorough cleaning, regrease and reinstall. If problem goes away then you just saved yourself the price of the bearings. If they still are notchy, then you already know how to take them out easily.

You say that the shocks are Konis. Well, Koni has not made shocks for bikes for since 2000. Koni licenced the complete manufacturing process to an Australian firm called Proven Products that now markets them under the Ikon name. So, depending on how your previous owner used the bike and wether or not they have been rebuilt will determine the present condition. The good thing is that they are rebuildable. Bad thing is that rebuilding can be expensive. If the shocks are shot, it may be less expensive and a lot easier to just replace them.

[SkyRider]

The steering head bearings may not be actually gone. Quite often they just need a very good cleaning and new grease. As these bearings do not get all that much use, in that they do not get rotated constantly, the grease quite often solidifies and as they are only used thru a small part of the arc will give the feeling of nothiness. Take them out do the thorough cleaning, regrease and reinstall. If problem goes away then you just saved yourself the price of the bearings.

Thanks Dave, that is a good start. If the bearings have not been touched since new, that would be old grease! I do not have the cap on the left swingarm bearing, and while looking at it, the grease seemed fresh, so perhaps that was recently done.

BTW, is there a source for a free downloadable service manual for this bike, or shall I buy one?

Len S

[shire2000]

Have never seen one online, but there is lots of good info available from a lot of different sources. Check out the following:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/ Snowbum's website has lots of very good info. The colourful fonts used can be difficult at times, but he has been working on airheads for a long time and is extremely knowledgeable.

http://www.airheads.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/ Another website with lots of good info in the tech articles.

http://www.bmbikes.org.uk/Forum/ Phil Hawksley's British site. Another forum with lots of good people on it.

And Naturally this site. Lots of people with good info that have "Been there, Done That" to Airheads.

Also, a good place to start is to join a local BMW club in your area.

You can get the Clymer manual for Airheads, it gives you all the torque values and some pretty good info on how to do stuff, but lots of us have come up with what we find to be easier ways to do a lot of things that will save you having to go to the dealership or to buy some special tools.

Don't be afraid to ask any questions. You may get some smart a$$ responses, but usually willl get a proper answer or get pointed in the right direction as well. A lot of us have been riding and working on Airheads for a long time. There is a huge wealth of knowledge available to all.

[robsryder]

....service manual ... shall I buy one? ...

The available service manuals include Clymers, Haynes, and the BMW factory manuals. Each of these manuals likely have some errors that can cause you to mess things up if you are not careful.

The AirList periodically points out some error or another with the Clymers and Haynes manuals. Some of the more well known BMW Airhead gurus seriously dislike these manuals due to the errors. Personally, I do like having all of the manuals. The Clymers manual for airheads is more well illustrated, but has more serious procedural errors. The Haynes manuals often will have suggestions for less expensive methods to perform some task.

For the BMW factory manual the most serious error that I've encountered is with the conversion from metric to SAE for torque limits on fasteners.

If you are attempting a service procedure that you've never before done then I'd suggest consulting all available sources of information. The on-line sources (particularly Snowbum's website) tend to be updated to clarify / correct the procedures. The errors in the Haynes / Clymers manuals may become apparent when considered against other sources (this assumes that one has some mechanical aptitude).

The AirList is archived, although it can be some work to search for particular topics. Over the course of the AirList's existance most issues have been covered. Snowbum, Tom Cutter, Ted Porter, and Oak are among the most well informed contributors. If any of these guys gives some advice, it is likely to be worth heeding. The same can't always be said for many of the other opinions.

One can get more info on the AirList and subscribe at MicaPeak -
http://micapeak.com/mailman/listinfo/airheads

[vanzen]

Although more focused on the earlier Type-247s
a good compilation of information regarding aberrant BMW chassis behavior
can be found at Duane Ausherman's site (http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/wobbles.htm).


Duane's site is on my short list of "must read" stuff for any twin-shock BMW owner
who wants to know more about the care and feeding of a Type-247 motorcycle.

[tghsmith]

duane explains that the problems were not corrected, only compensated. a lot of later bikes can benifit from the methods talked about. while many bikes out of the crate were just fine many weren't. taking some time to do the proceedures will at worst give you a bike that handles like it should.....

[SkyRider]

Although more focused on the earlier Type-247s
a good compilation of information regarding aberrant BMW chassis behavior
can be found at Duane Ausherman's site (http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/wobbles.htm).


Duane's site is on my short list of "must read" stuff for any twin-shock BMW owner
who wants to know more about the care and feeding of a Type-247 motorcycle.

Interesting, and definately a must read. But I have a wiggle not a wobble. (hehe) What I mean is, on turn in or turn out of a curve, I can feel a loosenes, like the swing arm is loose. But it feels tight on inspection. The description on Duane's sight is a "tank slapper". My bike is solid going straight. Although I have only had to 75 or so. I can't wait to get back to the bike next week. I have lots to check thanks to this thread. I am thinking tires. They are worn - ready for replacement by my standards, and I have not check the tire pressure with a guage. And a definate notch in the head bearing.

Till next time.

[shire2000]

OK, by your latest description, "on turn in or turn out of a curve, I can feel a loosenes". That is very similar to the feeling I was getting on my RT right after I bought it from previous owner. Adjusting the tire pressure up to proper pressure made a huge difference (plus I really didin't like that particular tire he had put on there). But it still had that same feeling in the corners, just not as bad. I then replaced the old shocks with new ones and all of a sudden the bike handles like it is on rails. Tracks thru corners perfectly and no more skittishness or looseness. It always felt fine going straight, just in corners was bad and on wet pavement even worse.

Now you may need to play with your tire pressures. I find with this particular Metzler Metronic tire, it handles best with 36-38 pounds of air. I have found different brands and models of tires need slightly different pressures. My Bridgestone BT-45s seem to work best with 32 front and 34 rear. when I load up for a tour, I up the rear to 36 due to extra weight.

[SkyRider]

OK, by your latest description, "on turn in or turn out of a curve, I can feel a loosenes". That is very similar to the feeling I was getting on my RT right after I bought it from previous owner.
Now you may need to play with your tire pressures. I find with this particular Metzler Metronic tire, it handles best with 36-38 pounds of air. I have found different brands and models of tires need slightly different pressures. My Bridgestone BT-45s seem to work best with 32 front and 34 rear. when I load up for a tour, I up the rear to 36 due to extra weight.

Thanks Dave, I am really looking forward to tweaking the bike. I think that is what it mostly needs. Not only have I not put a gauge to the tires, they are ready for replacement. When I get out there next week, tire pressures are the first thing I will check!
Cheers

[jforgo]

You are going into the steering head bearings for a lube and adjust anyway. Do yourself a favor and update to the forged upper triple clamp - which is what BMW did with the R65's and monoshocks. Toss that flimsy top plate - you will never regret it.

[ccolwell]

You're location is NJ and PA. Are you aware of Tom Cutter's shop in Yardley, PA? He know Airheads inside and out.


I met Tom at a track day yesterday. We were parked next to him and talked quite a bit. Nice guy and knows quite a bit. I'll be taking my beemer to him if I ever need work.

[SkyRider]

Well, I got out to the bike this weekend, and first thing - I checked the tire pressures.

They were right on, about 33 front and 38 rear. I am a big guy, so I think that is about right.

I put about 30 miles on the bike, and I am thinking now that the head bearings are the culprit. I did not think that a little notchieness would do it, but I can imagine "breaking" out of the notch to turn, then having it "snap" back in returning to neutral.

So, bearings and Clymers ordered from motorcycle superstore.

I had an interesting startup, after letting the bike sit for 2 weeks on the sidestand.

There might be enough comment for another thread, so I will post a separate one about the start.

Cheers