Ethanol Gasoline

[dmgoforth]

Last time I owned an airhead; Gasoline was Gasoline, not ethanol.

Has anybody had troubles with ethanol in their Airhead?
Are there any modifications I need to make or concerns I should have with 10% ethanol gasoline?

Thanks

[boxermaf]

Bing sells an "ethanol proof" kit of replacement floats for the carbs. Personally, I haven't had to switch to using them yet - a few years of using ethanol-flavored gas (10%) have not caused any issues for me, except that I am careful to replace the fuel lines more frequently - if you've got "old style" rubber fuel lines, the ethanol tends to deteriorate the rubber faster. You can now also get ethanol-proof fuel line - a good idea to switch to.

[mymindsok]

I live in California and an currently traveling in VA, where 10% gas is the rule.

Some of you may have different experiences but my 82RS runs pretty poorly on the blended stuff and I can't wait to get somewhere where I can buy some real gasoline.
\
One of the problems is that the alcahol is added to the tanker trucks by the drivers and sometimes the stuff is actually coming out of the pumps with as much as 24% alcahol added!

Real gasoline gives me smoother runing, better mileage and the damned missing stops!

[ccolwell]

Bing sells an "ethanol proof" kit of replacement floats for the carbs. Personally, I haven't had to switch to using them yet - a few years of using ethanol-flavored gas (10%) have not caused any issues for me, except that I am careful to replace the fuel lines more frequently - if you've got "old style" rubber fuel lines, the ethanol tends to deteriorate the rubber faster. You can now also get ethanol-proof fuel line - a good idea to switch to.

The stop gap measure is to drain your float bowls after every ride.

[26667]

I usually try to shut the petcocks off a few blocks before I hit my driveway in the hope that it's stumbling by the time I'm in the garage and get my helmet and gloves off, and that the fuel level will be low enough to help preserve the floats. Who knows? But the fuel line reminder is a good one, I bet.

[jforgo]

I usually try to shut the petcocks off a few blocks before I hit my driveway in the hope that it's stumbling by the time I'm in the garage and get my helmet and gloves off, and that the fuel level will be low enough to help preserve the floats. Who knows? But the fuel line reminder is a good one, I bet.

I do this as well. i am also switching the bikes over to a gray fuel line, might be called Tridon, which doesn't seem to leach out from the new fuel.
The braided rubber line seems the worst; is extremely prone to leaching out in fuel.

[ccolwell]

I usually try to shut the petcocks off a few blocks before I hit my driveway in the hope that it's stumbling by the time I'm in the garage and get my helmet and gloves off, and that the fuel level will be low enough to help preserve the floats. Who knows? But the fuel line reminder is a good one, I bet.

I do too, but only to decrease the amount of gas I drain on to my driveway.:p

[boxermaf]

+1 on shutting off the petcock prior to shutting off the engine. I don't always run it until it is stumbling (seems like a cruel thing to do to the old girl every single time) but I do try to burn off as much of the fuel in the bowls as I can.

[dmgoforth]

...for all your comments. Sounds like it is mostly limited hoses and carbs. I will start switching off the petcocks before shutdown, and will change the fuel lines.

My R100RT seems to run ok with the 10% stuff but I will use real gas when/if I can find it.

[tourunigo]

...for all your comments. Sounds like it is mostly limited hoses and carbs. I will start switching off the petcocks before shutdown, and will change the fuel lines.

My R100RT seems to run ok with the 10% stuff but I will use real gas when/if I can find it.

Those that come to the Salty Fog Riders Rally will have 100% access to pure gasoline. -Bob

[mrtnfischer]

I add a little two stroke oil to lubricate. There is also additives on the market that "enzyme" their way into your pocket book, also some people say "Stable" and there is a new Marine Stable, How about the old standby Marvel Mystery...I really want to know, does anyone know? or is it all a guess.

I have 6 Honda ct90's (Trail) a BMW75/6 and a "06 RT A 52' MG TD, a Triump TR6 and a TR4. So you see, I am concerned...Help me out before I worry myuself into a early grave. Is the Government out to get me?, Will the Govt make me spend the rest of my life fixing fuel systems? Can we distill it out using water?

[dduelin]

I haven't had any ethanol (10% mix here) problems yet with motorbikes and lawn equipment. As a preventive measure I use marine formula Stabil in any machine gas storage tank and jerry can that might sit a few weeks between use. Startron is supposed to be very good for this as well. I have both in the garage but the Stabil bottle has a measuring feature that I like.

[RonKMiller]

I do this as well. i am also switching the bikes over to a gray fuel line, might be called Tridon, which doesn't seem to leach out from the new fuel.
The braided rubber line seems the worst; is extremely prone to leaching out in fuel.

There's Trident marine hose (which is opaque gray as you described) AND Tygon F-4040-A which is clear/yellow. Both are excellent choices for Ethanol resistance. Tygon does seem to get hard after a few years but it lasts "forever".

For a few bucks more, Viton GFLT is the top 0' the heap but kinda' overkill for an airhead.

I'll guarantee you that in about 15 minutes we'll both hear from "certain members" :heart that you should NEVER use any of these since it was not specified by BMW in 1975. ;)

[sdpc2]

to buy?

There's Trident marine hose (which is opaque gray as you described) AND Tygon F-4040-A which is clear/yellow. Both are excellent choices for Ethanol resistance. Tygon does seem to get hard after a few years but it lasts "forever".

For a few bucks more, Viton GFLT is the top 0' the heap but kinda' overkill for an airhead.

I'll guarantee you that in about 15 minutes we'll both hear from "certain members" :heart that you should NEVER use any of these since it was not specified by BMW in 1975. ;)

[osbornk]

I have not experienced any problems in my 86 R80-RT

[toooldtocare]

My 25-year old 2-cycle Toro lawn mower and my 32-year old BMW runs fine on the 10% stuff, but I saw on the news that they want to kick up the content from 10% to 15% soon. By then I think I will have problems.

[nardowell]

The Farm Bureau (farmers), ADM, Cargill and all those that profit from ethanol got thier wish and we will now see the 15% blend everywhere.
Even though it takes more energy to make ethanol than the energy we get out of it, we are stuck with the 15% blend now.
I hope my 74 airhead with tolerate it.

[ridewv]

I wish at least one major brand would offer blended pumps for their premium that would allow us to select the % of alcohol, such as 0-25%. I think many would gladly pay extra for non-alcohol laced fuel, and it would be a profit oportunity for them.

[MPMARTY]

google "pure-gas" and you will find that ethanol free fuel is available nearly everywhere. I have tried several tankfuls in my 06 RT and the 93 Octane pure gas didn't work any better. No more mileage and no noticeable change in performance from the 10% stuff I get at Chevron stations.
http://pure-gas.org/

[brewmeister]

One thing not mentioned here is ,I ALWAYS place a fuel filter just before each carb to catch any possable crud before it gets into the carbs,This is a good idea!:lurk

[cathdeac]

Anyone see this site:

http://pure-gas.org/about

[Typ181R90]

I have noticed a difference from using ethanol based gasoline and pure gas, at least on my car. I've started using the lucas fuel treatment and the performance and fuel economy has gone way up (like getting an extra 5 mpg up) and then stops when I stop using the additive - it's made no difference on the bike

now here's something to consider with the use of ethanol based gases. I work for a pertroleum pipeline and am repsonsible for brining in products and testing them. Currently everything we pump to NY and PA and further west from there is reformulated gas, it used to be that all the western stuff was pure, conventional gas. RBOB (reformulated gas) actually comes in at 84 octane and premium comes in at 89-91 octane, requiring the ethanol to make it 87 octane and 93 octane respectively. Ethanol isn't blended into the product at the tanks, it's done at the terminals, so you're relying on an accurate meter and operator to get those mixtures just right, besides the fact that ethanol likes to absorb water and clean piping/tanks (i.e it gets dirty quickly), is that what you want in your vehicle. Funny thing is is that I have seen unblended premium go into a vehicle that requires 87 grade with no harmful results as it still has an 89 or so octane (I'm not going to elaborate on how I know that)

Also, on an unrelated note, I'd figure I'd dispell some myths about one brand of fuel to another. We bring in product from Shell, BP, Conoco Phillips, etc. and mix them all in the same tanks and then pump them out through the pipeline where they going to other tanks and are then pumped out to trucks and end up at stations. The cheapo, no-name gas station has the exact same gas as the name brand, it just depends on whether or not a company additive is added to the truck at the terminal and if so correctly. I like to rely on gas stations that continuously move product and have relatively newer tanks than buying by brand.

I think it's a terrible idea using the ethanol, or at least the type we use in the US, BRazil seems to be doing well with their sugar based high ethanol fuel, but that's an entirely different story

[osbornk]

Also, on an unrelated note, I'd figure I'd dispell some myths about one brand of fuel to another. We bring in product from Shell, BP, Conoco Phillips, etc. and mix them all in the same tanks and then pump them out through the pipeline where they going to other tanks and are then pumped out to trucks and end up at stations. The cheapo, no-name gas station has the exact same gas as the name brand, it just depends on whether or not a company additive is added to the truck at the terminal and if so correctly. I like to rely on gas stations that continuously move product and have relatively newer tanks than buying by brand.

That is why gasoline tanker trucks no longer have the big ESSO or other gas company sign painted on the tankers. All of the gas tankers I see are generic and you can see the same truck delivering gas all over town to many different brand stations.

[j-budimlya]

The base gasoline is likely the same, but as with many other things...like oil, its the additive package that makes the difference. And if one tank here and there is off spec, it matters little unless you go racing; its the general quality that matters for the long run.

I still buy the best additive package that I can find. I pick Shell, then Chevron, and then others in that order...

[gregfuess]

:cry

[berniematic]

Wow - very informative - thanks! Where would a person get Tygon gas line?

[DennisDarrow]

Resulted in UMPTEEN places to get the stuff...............

[kantuckid]

Car Quest has it by the ft, among others.

[cathdeac]

Didn't the German's use alcohol in their synthetic fuel production? From what I hear, there was much success.

On a "side" note... When I asked the Agriculture Dept. of Texas how they "tested" fuel pumps they said.. "On single hose pumps, we run 5 gallons through the system before we take our "sample"....

So, when you are refueling, pull in behind someone filling a car before you fuel up.. and ask them to use the SAME grade you want a few gallons of so the hose is properly spiked.:violin

[macstudley]

I should already know but since I don't, what is the inside diameter of airhead fuel line?:dunno

[pmdave]

Your local dirt bike/snowmobile/chainsaw dealer should have the Tygon fuel line in various diameters (and colors) One advantage is that the snowmobile line stays flexible at both hot and cold temperatures.

pmdave

[20774]

I should already know but since I don't, what is the inside diameter of airhead fuel line?:dunno

Hucky's page for the fuel line says 7mm...should be the ID of the line.

http://www.bmwhucky.com/010016.html

[RonKMiller]

Your local dirt bike/snowmobile/chainsaw dealer should have the Tygon fuel line in various diameters (and colors) One advantage is that the snowmobile line stays flexible at both hot and cold temperatures.

pmdave

Almost always knock off stuff that will swell when exposed to Ethanol... Tygon has been "genericized" (is that a word :bluduh ? ) much like Kleenex.

I specified Tygon F-4040-A which is designed for fuel.

It is a very specific yellow color only:

[kantuckid]

Didn't the German's use alcohol in their synthetic fuel production? From what I hear, there was much success.

On a "side" note... When I asked the Agriculture Dept. of Texas how they "tested" fuel pumps they said.. "On single hose pumps, we run 5 gallons through the system before we take our "sample"....

So, when you are refueling, pull in behind someone filling a car before you fuel up.. and ask them to use the SAME grade you want a few gallons of so the hose is properly spiked.:violin
Talk about properly spiked fuel:
I was waiting to fuel behind a lady a couple of years ago and she took FOREVER!!! to fill her small car. I ask her very politely what was her obviously slow deal? She said that an engineer she worked with had told her that, if you pump real slow, it will oxygenate the fuel and result in better fuel economy. In the interest of trying to create the gasoline equivalent of an oil thread, I'm throwing this one out to you "experts" out there!:brow

I remember the Germans as having used coal to make gas.

[rocketman]

Talk about properly spiked fuel:
I was waiting to fuel behind a lady a couple of years ago and she took FOREVER!!! to fill her small car. I ask her very politely what was her obviously slow deal? She said that an engineer she worked with had told her that, if you pump real slow, it will oxygenate the fuel and result in better fuel economy. In the interest of trying to create the gasoline equivalent of an oil thread, I'm throwing this one out to you "experts" out there!:brow

I remember the Germans as having used coal to make gas.

they also ran cars on wood ethenol conversion systems if I remember correctly.

the Model T Fords came with a means of adjusting the carb to allow the use of ethenol so its not really a new idea. It was used quite a bit during the Great Depression, esp on farms and rural areas. Seems MR. Ford was quite the champion of the idea but even early on the oil companys fought the idea quite vigorously!

from one site.

"Ethanol has been known as a fuel for many decades. Indeed, when Henry Ford designed the Model T, it was his expectation that ethanol, made from renewable biological materials, would be a major automobile fuel. However, gasoline emerged as the dominant transportation fuel in the early twentieth century because of the ease of operation of gasoline engines with the materials then available for engine construction, a growing supply of cheaper petroleum from oil field discoveries, and intense lobbying by petroleum companies for the federal government to maintain steep alcohol taxes. Many bills proposing a National energy program that made use of Americas vast agricultural resources (for fuel production) were killed by smear campaigns launched by vested petroleum interests. One noteworthy claim put forth by petrol companies was that the U.S. government's plans "robbed taxpayers to make farmers rich".

this is not meant as an endorsement, just as an interesting bit of history on the subject.

RM

[macstudley]

I just ordered Tygon F4040A fuel line from US Plastic Corp. The fuel line - item# 57330 is sold by the foot
($1.33) and shipping is only $4.99. Here's the link: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23487

Mac McEnheimer

[cathdeac]

"... Tygon F4040A fuel line from US Plastic Corp. ..."

Excellent! What about the "formed" hoses?

[535is]

"... Tygon F4040A fuel line from US Plastic Corp. ..."

Excellent! What about the "formed" hoses?

Huh? Which fuel hose on an Airhead would be formed - or need to be?

[cathdeac]

Huh? Which fuel hose on an Airhead would be formed - or need to be?

I happen to have an L T. Yes I am blissfully handicapped that way.

Rather than an exclusive thread I asked here, knowing of the
Courtesies offered in the MOA.

[pmdave]

Airheads are from that generation where fuel hoses were all cut from straight material. I know this is a foreign concept to K bike enthusiasts.

pmdave

[macstudley]

I just ordered Tygon F4040A fuel line from US Plastic Corp. The fuel line - item# 57330 is sold by the foot
($1.33) and shipping is only $4.99. Here's the link: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23487

Mac McEnheimer

Yesterday I received the Tygon fuel line that I ordered from US Plastic last Thursday. I commend their quick shipping, and the price was more than fair.

Mac