A Dfferent Petty Rant on Helmets

[E_Page]

I won't acknowledge this as childish, but maybe I'm getting old and grumbly. Anyway, here it is:

It seems that I am seeing an increasing number of helmets in the style of the WWII nazi helmets. I'd guess that somewhere close to 10% of the HD riders in my area have them, and the number seems to be growing. What's up with that?!?

Those helmets, especially in SS black, symbolize ideals that are anathema to those espoused by most in the free world. They symbolize an ideology of hate, cruelty, and oppression on a scale that has rarely been seen in this world. One that many of our relatives fought courageously to defeat. One that many people gave their lives to defeat.

I'm a generally friendly motorcycle rider. I wave to other riders when my concentration isn't fully occupied by the traffic around me. I often will strike up a conversation with other riders at gas stations, stores, or restaurants. But I can't bring myself to do so when I see some punk wearing a nazi helmet.

Do you think these guys even athink about or are aware of the symbolism of these things, or do they just think they look cool?

More to the point, is my disdain for these helmets and those who wear them reasonable or is it a petty issue that I should get over?

[BubbaZanetti]

or do they just think they look cool?

yep

[KGT1200]

I know one thing for sure. The cool looking Harley Guy laying on my riding jacket with a 6 inch round road rash and contustions on his head did not look cool. Sure, he had a leather vest on, and his leather chaps he wore last Friday July 17th. This all happened in an eastern Illinois freeway entry road on my way to the rally. He had on all the HD gear, looked so cool, but still allowed me to see where the bone was protuding out of his leg in several spots.

I suppose anybodys leg would still get broken in the same manner, loud pipes or no, but the helmet thing gave me the willies as I pulled out on the freeway after the cops and ambulence had carried him away. Blood did not want to wash out at the gas station, and was my haunting reminder all the way to and from the rally.

If he had a helmet on, his head would still have been intact. His eyes were open, but non-reponsive. I know nothing about his diagnosis, but I am willing to bet that if he had a helmet on, he would have faired much better in this accident.

There. My rant is done. Anybody got any hints how to get the blood stain out of my jacket?

[Sue]

There. My rant is done. Anybody got any hints how to get the blood stain out of my jacket?

Hydrogen Peroxide. I used to be an EMT. Works great.

Sorry to hear about your opportunity to render aid. Thanks for being there for a fellow rider.

[E_Page]

Try a cleaner with protein eating enzymes in it. We do or did have some such stuff at home. I'll try to remember to look when I get home and post the name of the stuff.

Too bad the HD guy got the helmet lesson the hard way. Hopefully, he will recover well enough for the lesson to be useful.

[henzilla]

E_ Page,

It seems from my travels that where helmet laws are mandatory, more of those helmets show up as some kind of protest in their minds...they are in chrome all over our area even without a helmet requirement and half the guys have no clue of the designs past history. Some do know and that's why they do it...to provoke comments...I had a co worker with one and he caught heck wearing it ,but he claimed his father was proud he did..whatever... he was quite the racist and I ignored him. The helmet isn't the same to me as the real one on display in a museum so I just put it down to ignorance and the need to look "cool". You or I will never change their thinking.

We saw some fellow in TN or MO on Tuesday with large 18" bull horns protruding from a 3/4 helmet...I was not quick enough on my camera...I hit the radio to Helen as I saw her head shaking and said " What's In YOUR Wallet?" He looked the marauding Viking in his whole costume. Noticed he was riding alone...:laugh

[amiles]

I was riding with a group from a lodge here in SC. When we got to the NC border we stopped so that those (not me) who were not wearing helmets could don theirs. The leader got out a WWII German style mc helmet & put it on. This really ticked me off & I decided in my usual way to display my displeasure.

From that point on every time I came face to face with him I held up my right hand & shouted "Sig heil" I suppose that he bought another helmet soon as he seemed to get my point based on his facial expression.

I just have this lovable way of making friends and influencing people. :whistle

And he riding a honda styled to look like a HD chopper

[crazydrummerdude]

From that point on every time I came face to face with him I held up my right hand & shouted "Sig heil"

Now that's effective.

But what does it matter?

Would you do the same to someone with a K98?

[35634]

But what does it matter?

Would you do the same to someone with a K98?
Or an MP40:thumb Live and let live, don't sweat the little stuff.

[amiles]

Now that's effective.

But what does it matter?

Would you do the same to someone with a K98?

What on earth do you mean by that? give them a rifle salute? VBS or ?

and I do know what a K98 is.

It's not common for folks to ride motorcycles with rifles hereabouts either on their heads as ersatz helmets or slung over their shoulders

[crazydrummerdude]

Let me preface this by saying that I think the salute thing is a little funny and probably quite effective.

But, a K98 was a German/Nazi tool as well. Would you make fun of that person, too?

I know, I could have used anything as an example.. shouldn't have picked a gun.

EDIT: A BMW motorcycle. Quite German, quite idolized as a Nazi implement. Do I deserve a salute, too, then?

[amiles]

Let me preface this by saying that I think the salute thing is a little funny and probably quite effective.

But, a K98 was a German/Nazi tool as well. Would you make fun of that person, too?

I know, I could have used anything as an example.. shouldn't have picked a gun.

EDIT: A BMW motorcycle. Quite German, quite idolized as a Nazi implement. Do I deserve a salute, too, then?


If that's what you want consider it done

[crazydrummerdude]

Haha, ah... bugger it all. Nevermind.

[snoone]

Do you think these guys even athink about or are aware of the symbolism of these things, or do they just think they look cool?

More to the point, is my disdain for these helmets and those who wear them reasonable or is it a petty issue that I should get over?

My feeling is that it would be naive to think that the riders wearing the helmets in question have no idea of their symbolism... In fact I'm sure each and every one of them knows exactly what kind of helmet they are wearing and exactly who they are offending by wearing them....mostly haters and poser haters.... and bigots and the list goes on..

No it is not cool and yes your disdain is reasonable and applaudable!!

[TexanRT]

I'm a generally friendly motorcycle rider. I wave to other riders when my concentration isn't fully occupied by the traffic around me. I often will strike up a conversation with other riders at gas stations, stores, or restaurants. But I can't bring myself to do so when I see some punk wearing a nazi helmet.

Do you think these guys even athink about or are aware of the symbolism of these things, or do they just think they look cool?

More to the point, is my disdain for these helmets and those who wear them reasonable or is it a petty issue that I should get over?


My brother-in-law's mother is now in her 80's. She was born in Russia and lived through the WWII years -- she knew first-hand what the Nazi SS was all about. She got out after the war and made it to the US and became a teacher -- this is one tough lady. Back in the 1970s, there was a time when all the German Nazi helmets and symbols were popular -- I remember the chrome ss helmets in particular. One day an unassuming young student wearing a chromed nazi ss helmet happened upon this very stern teacher and she gave him a lesson and a story I'm sure he's never forgotten -- I know I've never forgotten. As she retold the story about her encounter with the kid with the helmet, she was also telling us what happened to her and her family in Russia -- it certainly made an impression on me. I've never looked at those symbols the same way again -- so I don't think you're unreasonable or petty. I think if anybody heard Helen's story they might feel the same way.

[BubbaZanetti]

Haha, ah... bugger it all. Nevermind.

lol, believe it or not, I own a K 98

but it's Yugoslav, so that's ok.:laugh


[MOD ON] this is an ok discussion guys, let's keep it that way, thanks [/MOD OFF]

[snoone]

Let me preface this by saying that I think the salute thing is a little funny and probably quite effective.

But, a K98 was a German/Nazi tool as well. Would you make fun of that person, too?

I know, I could have used anything as an example.. shouldn't have picked a gun.

EDIT: A BMW motorcycle. Quite German, quite idolized as a Nazi implement. Do I deserve a salute, too, then?

I know quite a few people in my mothers age category that to this day will not buy a German car or any product of German manufacture.. Their memories are long and they probably would vote to give you the salute as well...

[crazydrummerdude]

they probably would vote to give you the salute as well...

:scratch

I think you're a member of the BMWMOA, too..

[snoone]

:scratch

I think you're a member of the BMWMOA, too..

and me as well! My father certainly voiced his opinion about me owning a BMW Motorcycle and was not shy about expressing his views, him being a WWII vet.. and also being one of the guys that helped liberate Europe

[jforgo]

What if someone thinks of those helmets as Darth Vader? Similar lines...

[henzilla]

and me as well! My father certainly voiced his opinion about me owning a BMW Motorcycle and was not shy about expressing his views, him being a WWII vet.. and also being one of the guys that helped liberate Europe

Mine was against anything Japanese as he lost buddies in Pearl Harbor...he drove a VW in the 70's , but was not happy with the Hondas & Suzuki's that we drug home.

[72598]

Growing up that (NAZI style) was about the only helmet (or is that helmut) you ever saw anyone riding a bike wearing. (a few of the Harley Dresser and BMW riders wore Buco but damn few, almost no one wore helmets back then)

They really became popular after Peter Fonda's 1966 movie the Wild Angels http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1877641728/tt0061189 (this is the movie poster, album cover had same painting with everyone wearing Nazi helmets) and Steve Mc Queen's Great Escape 1963 http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3929905152/tt0057115 and after being pictured on the Wild Angles soundtrack and The 1910 Fruitgum Co. Hard Ride 1969 http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradley_loos/274005881/ album covers.

I still have the Wild Angles soundtrack, Hard Ride, James Gang - Rides Again, the Hondell's Little Honda, Janis's Pearl and Sailcat's Motorcycle Mama on vinyl. I still have Pearl and Motorcycle Mama on 8 track too! (man those bikes look weird today)

You could get a real Nazi helmet at any Army surplus for less than $5, It would pound your head with its weight while your primary chain belt cut into your hips. (one weekend of headaches and bruised hips was enough for me)

The Nazi helmets that crack me up are the ones in Day-Glow colours, esp. Hot Pink and Lilac!!

[rik]

Wow! And I thought they wore them because they were easy to slide under the bike and catch the oil.

[E_Page]

Thanks for all the replies. As usual, a broad range of opinion.

The helmet, IMO, is different than a motorcycle, a car, and perhaps even a rifle in that the helmet is part of a uniform that sttod for a particular ideology that I find objectionable.

Germany has been considered an ally for several decades now, and it is my impression that a majority of their society has tried hard to denounce that portion of their history and leave it buried in the ash heap of history.

The other items are technological tools that happened to be used by Germany during that era. Some of those things were used well before and also well after and are not symbols of the ideology that the uniform is.

I don't believe there is any value in , or anything appropriate about punishing subsequent generations of Germans, Japanese, or any other national group that does not espouse the ideals and policies of the tyrannical governments that once ruled their countries.

We all ride BMWs because we appreciate the quality and workmanship. If those motorcycles came equipped with swastikas rather than roundels, that quality probably couldn't ever be good enough to overcome the symbolism for most of us. Certainly not for me. It would be the symbol and what it stands for, and not the machine that would matter.

Even the rifles were tools. If owned as quality tools as one would own a Winchester or Remington, I have no particular issue. If used as a symbol as part of a uniform, as a representation of the hatred that once ruled a nation, I've got a problem with it.

I guess it all comes down to the intent of the owner to me. I've seen nazi uniforms in museums, movies, reenactments, etc., and recognized that in those circumstances, the owners of, or even the wearers of those items were not doing so to show support for the ideals the uniform represented. The items were being kept and used to inform others of a part of history hopefully to not be repeated. I've no issue with these uses.

But those who wear them as some sort of badge, uniform, or extension of their attitudes or beliefs, or even if only to shock or offend, petty or not, I have a problem with it.

Agree or not, thanks for your opinions.

[The_Veg]

I have a friend who wears one. Really a freaky sight, as he's around 6'4" and about 300, wearing a Nazi-style lid with Transformers stickers on it while he rides a 250 Aprilia scooter.

http://vegomatic.smugmug.com/photos/462833641_Zu2bC-M-1.jpg

[The_Veg]

I know quite a few people in my mothers age category that to this day will not buy a German car or any product of German manufacture.. Their memories are long and they probably would vote to give you the salute as well...

That kind of thing always bugged me, because USA has a long record of rebuilding and making allies of every country we've defeated....we pick them up when they are beaten, dust them off, patch them up, and nurture them to health- a pretty good gift, I'd say! Interesting that on a national level we can forgive and rehabilitate and make friends of our enemies, yet sad that some citizens cannot (and I've met MANY like this). On an individual level we sure can be a bunch of rigid absolutists.

Sorry mods...back to talkin' about helmets now. :)

[E_Page]

That kind of thing always bugged me, because USA has a long record of rebuilding and making allies of every country we've defeated....we pick them up when they are beaten, dust them off, patch them up, and nurture them to health- a pretty good gift, I'd say! Interesting that on a national level we can forgive and rehabilitate and make friends of our enemies, yet sad that some citizens cannot (and I've met MANY like this). On an individual level we sure can be a bunch of rigid absolutists.

Sorry mods...back to talkin' about helmets now. :)


I'm sure it makes a difference to many if they were the ones actually trading bullets with the other side or if they lost someone to the fighting, especially if it was in some particularly barbaric fashion.

Don't be too hard on such people for the scars they've gained. Some heal faster and more completely than others.

[crazydrummerdude]

I'm sure it makes a difference to many if they were the ones actually trading bullets with the other side or if they lost someone to the fighting, especially if it was in some particularly barbaric fashion.

Don't be too hard on such people for the scars they've gained. Some heal faster and more completely than others.

I don't know how to word it properly, but I can see where those people are coming from. On the other hand, my grandpa, a heck of a guy, fought in the thickest of the battles in several different "stages" (including Iwo Jima), and I'd be willing to bet he'd really dig my old BMW's if he was still alive.

I am not exactly sure how I'd feel if I went through the same thing, though.

[535is]

I don't know how to word it properly, but I can see where those people are coming from. On the other hand, my grandpa, a heck of a guy, fought in the thickest of the battles in several different "stages" (including Iwo Jima), and I'd be willing to bet he'd really dig my old BMW's if he was still alive.
Do you mean 'theaters' (as in "theaters of operation")? I know there were a few who fought in the ETO (European Theater of Operations) and the PTO (Pacific TO). Most combatants didn't. I also know that the PTO created a lot more lasting hatred of the average Japanese than the ETO did of the average German. Perhaps it was that the average Japanese field combatants reportedly were involved in more barbaric acts while the average Wehrmacht soldier was not directly involved in Nazi Germany's most barbaric acts in the concentration camps. Perhaps it's just that they are racially different from most Americans. Perhaps it was having a 'common enemy' (USSR & communism) in the immediate postwar period in Germany while mainly the US occupied Japan. I don't know. It seems, though, that we managed to 'make up' with Germany a lot faster than we did with Japan.

All this is to say, I wonder how your grandpa would feel about Suzukis ...

[crazydrummerdude]

Do you mean 'theaters'

I don't know, I just didn't know what else to call it.

I'll have to think about the Suzuki thing. I currently don't think it'd be a big deal. In reading his letters home, and knowing him for a short while, it becomes evident that he was just a guy doing probably a little more than asked of him just to get home a little faster and get back to his family and their farm.

(Honestly, I feel like I might tarnish his reputation to people who'd never met him by theorizing his opinions on things, 15 years after he died.)

[RTFlyer]

Interestingly enough, my mother was a young teenager in Essen, Germany during the war. That was home of the Krupp factories, the number one armament manufacturer in Germany. Having no hand in the war, she was nonetheless bombed out of three homes, strafed by their escort fighters more than once, lost countless family members, and lost contact forever with most others. When the Americans eventually overran northern Germany, they pillaged the farm she had taken refuge at, and destroyed many of the few posessions she had left, including the fine linens that they used to clean their weapons, and everything else in her hope chest, the one thing she cherished most.

She never said anything bad about it except to relate the story to me, accepted it as part of war, and she thought that to own a Cadillac was the height of success. She even married an American soldier, my dad. My parents drove only Cadillacs for the latter part of their lives. She got over it.

I understand the symbolism that the helmet represents to many of you. You are entitled to feel that way. I tend to believe that most of the guys wearing those helmets have no understanding of it, therefore it doesn't bother me.

[snoone]

I understand the symbolism that the helmet represents to many of you. You are entitled to feel that way. I tend to believe that most of the guys wearing those helmets have no understanding of it, therefore it doesn't bother me.

I tend to disagree.. I think the majority of guys wearing those helmets know exactly what buttons they are pushing and why

[RTFlyer]

YMMV.

I won't argue that many of the people here who wear them are racist or anti-semitic. Many of the people who live around here are one or both. I just don't think they are after much more than looking cool (in their own eyes) and don't see much past that. Then again, I'm becoming numb to racial slurs and things which I once found so shocking. It's a sad reflection of where I live.

[SPOKESMAN]

Like the Mauser rifle, the "Nazi" helmet actually predates Nazism by a fair spell, dating back at least to WWI. Google "German M16 helmet."

I see tons of those style helmets on motorcyclists in my area. I doubt that many of the wearers are making a pro-Nazi statement. Rather, I believe it is usually a historically ignorant attempt to broadcast "tough guy, rebel on the fringes of society" in the mandatory black color. A lot of these guys are probably accountants, bankers and pharmacists. On the other hand, a few wearers probably are actual outlaw bikers making a "white power, pro-Nazi" statement.

I wouldn't wear one. They appear to offer little protection. They look lame and would be incongruous on a brand new RT, the ultimate establishment ride. Besides, my toughness and individuality transcend attire. ;)

[jforgo]

People wear them for the same reasons they wear or buy a lot of other things; it is what their friends/peers do. Nothing more.

[BuddingGeezer]

Like the Mauser rifle, the "Nazi" helmet actually predates Nazism by a fair spell, dating back at least to WWI. Google "German M16 helmet."

I see tons of those style helmets on motorcyclists in my area. I doubt that many of the wearers are making a pro-Nazi statement. Rather, I believe it is usually a historically ignorant attempt to broadcast "tough guy, rebel on the fringes of society" in the mandatory black color. A lot of these guys are probably accountants, bankers and pharmacists. On the other hand, a few wearers probably are actual outlaw bikers making a "white power, pro-Nazi" statement.

I wouldn't wear one. They appear to offer little protection. They look lame and would be incongruous on a brand new RT, the ultimate establishment ride. Besides, my toughness and individuality transcend attire. ;)

I agree. Is it just me or does the present US combat helmet resemble the WW2 German helmet? they sure don't resemble the old "steel pot".

Ralph Sims

[crazydrummerdude]

i agree.

+1

[SPOKESMAN]

I heard somewhere that the old German configuration, covering more of the head and neck while not obstructing peripheral vision, is simply a better design, better than the American helmets of WWII and way better than those of WWI.

This is probably why the current American helmets resemble the Darth Vader Imperial helmets.

Post WWII West German forces abandoned the "Nazi" helmet, likely for political, not practical, reasons.

[KGT1200]

True story. I was heading Northbound on 35E towards downtown St. Paul MN at 2:00 PM today when 30 Hells Angels came by me all packed locked and loaded, tandem in the lanes, 15 deep and from the news report heading to duluth MN for a pre-party prior to Sturgis!

Why I mention this in this thread is that in addition to all of them having colors on, each had a helmet! Many with the WWII design, many open face, but I guess I got to ask, coming from a state with no helmet laws: Since when do the Hells Angels wear helmets? All of em in their double column came roaring by me and my subaru outback doing 85 in a nortorious 55 mile zone (by the downtown and 94 interchange for those who know the 35E road)! These bad dudes looked soo, soo demasculated from their tough guy image in their helmets, fat ol ladies in tow! They looked exactly like us except our women are beautiful, most BMW women ride their own bikes, and we drive superior machines to their chome HD's!

What a sight!!

[535is]

True story. I was heading Northbound on 35E towards downtown St. Paul MN at 2:00 PM today when 30 Hells Angels came by me all packed locked and loaded, tandem in the lanes, 15 deep and from the news report heading to duluth MN for a pre-party prior to Sturgis!

Why I mention this in this thread is that in addition to all of them having colors on, each had a helmet! Many with the WWII design, many open face, but I guess I got to ask, coming from a state with no helmet laws: Since when do the Hells Angels wear helmets?
Probably from a state that requires them (obviously not Wisconsin) ... and have no place to stash them on the bike. I always check the license plates to see.

[criminaldesign]

got to admit the germans had the best eye for uniforms.

[iRene]

This is a bit of a thread hijack, but I'm noticing a MUCH higher percentage of cruiser types wearing
helmets this season.
I'm thinking it is more to do with the constant RAIN we've had all summer, or maybe that
there are more nOObs on the road (Maine requires helmets for the permit period and the first
licensed year thereafter) but I am definitely seeing more helmets of every kind.

Not a bad thing, in my estimation, Nazi-style lids aside, of course.