Progression of a Resurrection - 1929 Ford Model A

[crazydrummerdude]

As requested recently in the Airheads sub-forum, I figured I’d start a thread about this project. Who knows if/when it’ll ever be “done.”

The pictures and technical details will get better as the thread goes on.

At the start of this project, I know/knew absolutely nothing about Ford's, Model A's, or "antique" cars. I am literally learning as I go.. and I am doing all the work by myself, and financing it all myself.

<b>History</b>: This Model A was purchased by my grandfather some time around 1960.

These are believed to be promotional shots for a family's friends car dealership. (Although it appears the car is dusty.. haha.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091228055.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091228057.jpg

Sometime ~30+ years ago, it was stored in my grandfathers mothers shed. Work was being done on the house she lived at (floors?, roof?) and it is believed that one of the workers took an interest in it. Someone tired the Model A to their truck with a rope, and after stealing an old farm scale and a few other things, took off with it. They made it a couple miles down the road before the rope snapped. It crashed into a ditch where it rolled onto its side. As luck would have it, this ditch was in front of my grandmothers brothers house, I believe, and he called to asked the guys where they got the car. They took off and it ended up back at my grandfathers house, or my uncle Dave's house next-door, until present day. Between then and now; 1) my uncle Rolla decided to start taking it apart to restore it. He got it about 1/3 disassembled. 2) My grandfather died in 1994, and the Model A was essentially given to my uncle Rolla. For as long as I can remember, it has sat in my grandfather/grandmother's shed in the following condition:

[Dang it, where'd my "before" pic go?]

Somewhere along the way, 2 extra engines and transmissions were acquired, along with lots of other extra piddly stuff.

<b>On November 6, 2006</b> <i>Hours: ~2, Expenses: $69.50</i>
I decided to investigate into rebuilding one of the extra transmissions, to get my feet wet, so to speak. I soaked the whole thing in our parts washer liquid. Within a week, I had it rebuilt and looking good. I used chemicals and elbow grease to clean it up to prep for paint. I bought the appropriate bearings, gaskets, and correct Ford paint to make it authentic. It was a piece of cake.

<b>On November 7, 2006</b> <i>Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0</i>
I decided to rebuild the other extra transmission. When taken down from "storage" above the small shop in our shed, it looked like this (you'll also notice a Model A bell housing in the background):

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/Picture008.jpg"></img>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/Picture011.jpg"></img>

It was nothing but ball of rust and dirt. I did the same process of letting it soak in our bucket of mystery liquid to loosen everything up. Upon popping it open (which was quite difficult), I was disappointed to see the toll rust had taken on the inside of a sealed piece of metal. Some of it is salvagable, but the gears are not. Winter came, and I ran out of money. Once May rolled around, I had enough spare time/money to start things back up again where I left off.

[crazydrummerdude]

Sandblasting everything didn't help the rust problem, but at least I was aware of the extent of the damage. I sand-blasted the case and everything as well, and it turned out nice. (..and yes, I know, I sand-blasted the mating surfaces. Those will be cleaned up with sandpaper or emery cloth.)

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may025.jpg"></img>

After my first coat of paint, I was pleased. (..and yes, I realized I painted the mating surface for the clutch tension bearing on the output shaft cover. That will be fixed later.)

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24024.jpg"></img>

<b>On Saturday, May 19, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~3, Expenses: $0</i>
I came to the conclusion that if we were given a Model A at this point in time, we'd work on it. We've just been used to having one sit there, so we haven't worked on it.

I decided to change that, and instead of practicing on all the extras, I might as well just go for it. I rounded up all of the Model A parts I could find. I cleaned out the small shop (mostly) to prepare for a Model A Restoration Factory... or something like that. On one side, I have an engine/clutch/transmission staging area. I have both spares mocked up so I can figure out how everything works and goes together. (Just ignore the 8hp Briggs.)

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24022.jpg"></img>

On the other side I have a work bench where the stuff gets taken apart/cleaned up/rebuilt.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24023.jpg"></img>

I decided to take it slow and steady.. and careful. I removed/cleaned the carb. I removed intake/exhaust. I removed the side panel of the engine.

<b>Sunday, May 20, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~1, Expenses: $0</i>
I popped the top; removed the head/distributor. I did other little piddly stuff. Like I said, I am trying to take it easy so that I don't mess up more than my ignorance calls for.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may22013.jpg"></img>

The cylinder walls felt better than I expected.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may22014.jpg"></img>

<b>Monday, May 21, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~3, Expenses: $0</i>
I removed the oil pan/pump. I removed all connections between the transmission and drive shaft. I removed all connections between the flywheel bell housing and engine. I changed out a shredded left read tire, so now I have a rolling vehicle. I only had to put Slime in 1 tire.. and these are <i>at least</i> 35+ years old. They also sat flat for <i>at least</i> a decade. I disconnected the wishbone suspension from under the flywheel, and strapped it to the frame almost in position, to prevent any tweaked metal. <u>First problem</u>: One of the two studs that the ball of the wishbone mounts to under the flywheel.. was spinning. The nut would not come off, and after consulting a spare shroud, I knew that this post that holds these two other posts in place was either broken, missing, or bent. Thankfully, after <i>lots</i> of work, it was successfully removed.

<b>Wednesday(?), May __, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0</i>
I cleared out all our stuff from the shed. I put that baby in neutral and man-handled her around and around and around into position under the lift. I disconnected the shroud frame bolts, and the front engine mount. I hooked her up, and away went the entire power plant. <u>Second problem</u> I kept getting caught on something when I was trying to lift it out. I realized I never disconnected the starter, and I ended up cracking the flanged thin metal of the base of the floor starter button where it meets the starter. Thankfully this isn't that big of a problem, or an expensive repair.. about $15 for a new one.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24008.jpg"></img>

I separated the engine and everything else.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24011.jpg"></img>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24009.jpg"></img>

It sure looks different now than it has in the past 4 decades.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24016.jpg"></img>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24014.jpg"></img>

[crazydrummerdude]

<b>Thursday(?), May __, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0</i>
I decided to get right to work rebuilding the thing I now know best; the transmission. I took off the shifter, and was very pleasantly surprised to find that the interior of this one is in damn near perfect shape. I cleared off the pounds and pounds of grease and dirt that also covered this one, cleaned up the surface, and masked it up to prepare for sand-blasting. In the process, I masked off Transmission #2 to prepare it for a second coat of paint. I figured this would be a good time to take a picture of the evolution of the process. On left is the first rebuilt transmission (#1) (ready to bolt up), in the middle is the one that's ready to be reassembled (#2), and on the right is the one fresh off the Model A (#3). Behind them are all the innards of Transmission #3

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/may24026.jpg"></img>

I took the weekend off of Model A Resto for Memorial Day, but progress will begin again this week.

<b>June/July, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~3, Expenses: $0</i>
My uncle tried to locate the VIN which he claims is stamped onto the firewall. There is a plate stamped to the firewall with indecipherable stuff on it, but he claims that's not it. He gave me $100 towards the project and 2 books about restoring Model A's. School got in the way, so I didn't make much progress besides general learning about and cleaning up. Also, I got another project that is stealing my time.

<b>Saturday, August 11, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0</i>
I finally decided that enough was enough, and it's time to work on this thing, even though I feel like crap because of this strep throat that's been going on since August 1.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/august011.jpg"></img>

I wasn't sure how to get the flywheel off, but I managed. It's freakin' heavy.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/august008.jpg"></img>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/august027.jpg"></img>

So, we (my brother and I) finally were able to put the engine up on an engine mount, and I disconnected all the pistons.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/august040.jpg"></img>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/august037.jpg"></img>

Man, tolerances were not very tight on these machines. Physically, pieces look in good shape, so maybe it is meant to have a bit more play in places than I would expect.

I know I could be making much faster progress, but it's kind of rough to convince myself to go on ahead when I don't have a secure source of funds. If necessary, I will fund this whole project, as it is my main intent on seeing this thing come back to life. But, in reality, my uncle is (more rich than I and) anxious to see me get some stuff done. It would be helpful to receive a little more financial encouragement, though.

<b>Sunday, August 19, 2007</b> <i>Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0</i>
With some help from my brother, I removed spring retainers, springs, valves, lifters, crank, and cam. Not much is left on this block, and I'm about ready to ship it out for acid bath/etc.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/september8006.jpg"></img>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/september8008.jpg"></img>

I organized a lot of the spare parts.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/september8001.jpg"></img>

[crazydrummerdude]

<b>Fall/Winter 2007, 2008, Spring 2009</b> <i>Hours: ?, Expenses: $0</i>
Not much work has happened. No funds. I'm not exactly sure how interested my uncle is in helping.. financially/physically. Life marches on. Although, I organized all of the Model A related parts into different closed/lockable cabinets.

In the mean time, my brother and I acquired 2 tractors, 7 antique stationary engines, and countless other projects.

Personally, my BMW R90/6 (and school) took most of my time and money.

<b>Friday, June 26, 2009</b> <i>Hours: ~0, Expenses: $0</i>
I considered my R90 near completion (except for something that just broke), and my summer school session completed. It was time to get back to work. We took the engine block and head to a local trusted machine shop to get dipped/fluxed and bored over (~60/1000ths over stock, 3.875 to 3.935) to compensate for excessive clearance and slight ovaling in cylinder #2.

<b>Monday, June 29, 2009</b> <i>Hours: ~4, Expenses: $0</i>
With the engine at the shop, I figured it was time to focus on the next-in-line hurdle of the project; the brakes. Soon, it’ll go, but will it stop?

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090629014.jpg"></img>

Maybe at one time I knew it, but I was surprised to (re)learn that the rear had two sets of shoes, presumably for an emergency brake.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090629015.jpg"></img>

..and two grooves in the drum for them.. with big rollers.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090629016.jpg"></img>

Front wheel has one set of shoes, and two (inner and outer) bearings.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090629017.jpg"></img>

80 years of grease took a bit of work throughout the evening.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090629026.jpg"></img>

I spent most of the night cleaning off the grease on the linkages and trying to figure out what a “spindle lock pin” is that I’m supposed to remove to get the brake actuator off. I just started taking it all apart, as it needs to anyway.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090629031.jpg"></img>

By the end of the night, I just gave up on it. I don’t know how I’m going to get the actuator off.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090629033.jpg"></img>

Work will continue tomorrow.. and next week.. and next month.

[rbertalotto]

Nice!

It has to be a labor of love because it certainly looks like a lot of labor!

[kahuhna]

Great write-up! That looks like a lot of fun. Funny how some of those brake parts look like they could fit something built 70 years later. I love the rough cast crankshaft, the lobes are so off-set that it's a really long stroke. Strong engine design.
The car itself looks to be in fairly good shape, considering. I might be a little envious, but my wife would kill me....

Have fun and keep the pics coming!

Greg

[sumran]

Great thread! Now I'll have to check on campfire regularly. This is a perfect vehicle to make your motorcycles seem modern.:thumb

[lonelobo]

There is a pretty big Model A Club in Dallas. You would DEFINATELY be the youngest member AND a celebrity/surrogate grandson. Find the nearest Model A club to you and you will find an invaluable resource for all things needed.

And keep up the great work and more importantaly, ATTiTUDE!

[BubbaZanetti]

neat stuff Nate, and once again, makes me long for rural, or at least semi-suburban life. to have a garage again and not a 1/4 mile walk every time you forget a tool.:banghead

[shire2000]

Truly a labour of love.

I did basically the same thing as you about 8 years ago. Got a 1930 Model A 5 window coupe from my Father-in-law. Stripped it totally down and rebuilt from one end to the other. Totally stock. It was a lot of fun, lots of blood, sweat, tears and money. Did I mention lots of money. To do it up to the point of being completely original and doing the majority of the work myself, ended up costing me just about $25,000. I tried to keep it as close to the judging standards as possible. Not really cost effective as I could buy one already done for less than half that. But, it would not be the same car.

Learned more about the old Ford Model A than I ever wanted to know. Had some fun running it around town, but then got tired of it. Sold it to one of my wife's brothers and he still has it. I don't think I would ever do it again for myself. I really enjoyed the working on it, but once done, I was looking for something else to spend my time on. Got into restoring old bikes instead, which I find even more rewarding.

If you should need any books on the Model A, I do have some that I might be willing to part with. PM me if you are interested.

[NavyCWO]

I'm now 62. As a kid, my Dad's hobby was restoring old Fords. He'd do model A's, B's and even a 1929 Chevrolet straight six which was the first vehicle I learned to drive.
I spent many an hour working with my Dad and his friends on these old cars. The projects used to drive my Mom crazy. As soon as Dad finished a car, he sell it, never making much profit, though he did cover expenses. We'd then go crawling around the salvage yard in South Texas looking for a new restoration on which to start. I have many fond/grimy memories of those projects! I'm now in the process of restoring a 1967 BSA 441. Guess the bug never totally leaves you! Good luck and enjoy your project!

[gfspencer]

Very interesting post! Keep up the good work. :thumb

[Rapid_Roy]

Excellent! Nice work. Well documented.
:thumb

[crazydrummerdude]

Find the nearest Model A club to you and you will find an invaluable resource for all things needed.

I found the local club soon after I decided to dig into this project. They offer a "scholarship" to kids under the age of __, restoring/working on Model A's. When I saw that, I went to apply, but I was about a month too late.

neat stuff Nate, and once again, makes me long for rural, or at least semi-suburban life.

This area was rural when my shop was built by my grandpa. Now, it's subdivisions and strip malls as far as the eye can see. I don't think too fondly of the suburb(an sprawl). I favor dense cities and sparse country.

...

<b>Tuesday, June 30, 2009</b> <i>Hours: ~3, Expenses: $75</i>

So, I got a call back from the shop. Seems there's a crack in the block. When I first heard this, I wasn't too concerned, based on my experience with other antique engines. But, upon investigating the crack first-hand, it might be a bigger problem. The crack runs from one exhaust seat almost to the bore of one cylinder. This will need to be welded up and machined down by someone who knows what they're doing. The machine shop recommended a shop far away in Illinois, but I'm going to look around the St Louis area first. I won't cut corners, though.

Although, I have 2 more blocks to choose from in my shop. One block has everything but the pistons still in it, and the other is stripped all the way down.

I'm going to take the other stripped-down block to the shop tomorrow and have them check it out. I noticed a crack running from part of the water jacket to where a head stud is. That's not as serious, and I've seen worse in running engines. So, if they recommend that it get repaired, I know there are shops around that can weld up part of a water jacket. I can grind it down, thread it back, etc. Assuming there are no other cracks/problems.

On the plus side, after boil/flux, the head was deemed "good."

Didn't have my camera with me today, sorry!

[crazydrummerdude]

Because we've rubbed our grimey fingers all over it, you can't see the small crack in block#1 any more, but it's here somewhere:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701006.jpg

Wednesday, July 1, 2009 Hours: ~0, Expenses: $0

So, here's block#2, that I just took to the shop.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701004.jpg

..and here's the crack in the water jacket.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701003.jpg

When I handed it over to the guy at the shop, he said that's not a problem at all, as I was anticipating.

..and if all the crap hits all the fans, I'll tear down block#3 and take it to the shop.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701019.jpg

I will work on it a little more tonight, but will be out of town from Thursday to Monday. Tuesday night, I will go to a local Model A club general meeting. I've been meaning to do that for years now.

[shire2000]

While you are at the meeting, see if they know anyone that can redo the Babbit bearings on your engine. That is an art unto itself. There are some good people out there that you can talk to about it, but to actually do it is not as easy at it may seem. Biggest problem is getting the babbit material.

On the other hand, some people in the Model A club of America have figured out a what to modify block and crank to install much more modern bearings, which they say is much more reliable if you are going to drive it often.

When I did mine, I found an elderly gentleman that still did babbits, so went that route. 8 years and about 15,000 miles later, it is still holding together fine.

[Bob_M]

Dick Russell sometimes works in my Brother in law’s shop. He is the fabricator who built Parnelli Jones’ Oly Broncos. To tweak the noses of the governing body who oversee the Bonneville Speed Week he built a Model A engine to run in a Model A class. Abiding by the rules, he hogged out the bottom end, and hand built a 5 main bearing bottom end and machined a new crankshaft. He built water jackets around the engine a new head and generally built everything except the cylinders. Dick ran the flathead 4 on a stand and it sounded strong. He bought a drop tank from a WWII aircraft and was in the process of fabbing up a streamliner when the insiders club of officials took one look at the engine and changed the rules so that the engine no longer qualified for the class. He sold the engine having never put it in a car.

It was remarkable to watch the process.

[Bob_M]

other side

[henzilla]

very cool project cddude!
Had a ex-bro in law that piddled for years on a few oldies like that..I never saw them make it to the road, but heard they did...Hope you see the end of the tunnel and enjoy the effort!

[crazydrummerdude]

So, today, I spent about 2 more hours cleaning and tearing apart and thinking and looking in parts magazines.

Got the spindle lock pin out:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701023.jpg

So, I took it apart:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701024.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701027.jpg

..and cleaned it up a bit more.

My brother and I whipped up another batch of parts cleaner fluid, and dipped the parts. Then, we got to talking about what this is. I knew at one time, but forgot by now. I suppose I could look it up somewhere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090701029.jpg

I think something goes from that round piece down to a perch on the spring/linkage/whatever.

[crazydrummerdude]

Dick Russell sometimes works in my Brother in law’s shop. He is the fabricator who built Parnelli Jones’ Oly Broncos. To tweak the noses of the governing body who oversee the Bonneville Speed Week he built a Model A engine to run in a Model A class. Abiding by the rules, he hogged out the bottom end, and hand built a 5 main bearing bottom end and machined a new crankshaft. He built water jackets around the engine a new head and generally built everything except the cylinders. Dick ran the flathead 4 on a stand and it sounded strong. He bought a drop tank from a WWII aircraft and was in the process of fabbing up a streamliner when the insiders club of officials took one look at the engine and changed the rules so that the engine no longer qualified for the class. He sold the engine having never put it in a car.

It was remarkable to watch the process.

Wow.

[Bob_M]

I think something goes from that round piece down to a perch on the spring/linkage/whatever.

Great project. from the amount of grease on that thing, I am surprised you find any rust.

My guess is that a multi plate friction type shock absorber goes with that round node.

Keep us posted.

[TomBarnhart]

The round thingy is the knee-action shock. Lots of rebuilt and replacements out there. The work reasonably well unless you put a bigger engine in the car.

I would recommend that you look for some 46 to 48 hydraulic brake system parts to replace the mechanical brakes. After 1 hard stop, you will have to readjust all the rods and linkages, providing you really do stop and do not wad the thing up.
DAMHIK--put a 52 merc motor in a 29 A coupe, did not change the mechanical brakes till I had one really close call. Had to replace the cover on the seat where I tore a big divot out when it would not stop.

[88bmwJeff]

CDD, Cool thread. Keep the photos and comments coming (at least until school starts). Out of curiosity, what's your plan? A full restoration, or just to get it running down the street?

[crazydrummerdude]

Out of curiosity, what's your plan? A full restoration, or just to get it running down the street?

As with all my projects (there are about 50 of them), the plan is to get it functioning properly, as intended with original equipment for the time being. One day "down the road" everything of mine will be nice to look at instead of just nice to operate.

Late July/Early August 2009 Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0
Spent a couple more hours cleaning up the functional surfaces of the steering and brakes.

In this picture, you can see the partially-cleaned/greased left side, the broken frame horns, and the hints of work beginning on the right side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20090805017.jpg

Monday, August 3, 2009 Hours: ~0, Expenses: $0
We took two of our A blocks and one head to an old school shop in a corn field in Illinois. The place has been in business since 1928, and is one of few in the nation that welds up cast iron. They gave us a tour of the place. It was AWESOME. They said it'd be about a week turn around time. I really wish we'd done this sooner, because school starts up at the end of this month, and I want to have it somewhat-together before then.

After the treatment, we're probably going to have to find someone who can work on the babbit bearings.. I'm a little worried about that.

[shire2000]

If you are still looking for the Vehicle Serial Number, it should be stamped into the top of the frame under the body on the left (drivers). About 6-12 inches back from the point where the front of the body meets up with the frame. In theory, it should match the numbers stamped in your oringinal engine block. But as over the years, those engines were swapped around so much, a matching numbers car is very rare these days.

Looking at your photos, it always amazes me that every gearbox from a Model A always ends up looking like a big ball of goo. Sure brings back memories from rebuilding mine.

Good luck with it.

[Motor31]

Outstanding post!!!! I look forward to seeing the completed project and I'm impressed with the desire to keep it "stock". That's one of my personal preferences as I like to see "history" still living and working. Please keep it going!

[rdalland]

Saw these guys on Ophir Pass in Colorado last week, thought of your project...

http://reid-dalland.smugmug.com/photos/628912360_t5FsK-O.jpg

Ophir Pass is posted "Four wheel drive or high ground clearance."

http://reid-dalland.smugmug.com/photos/628912284_cBAUq-O.jpg

Saw them on Imogene pass the next day.

[535is]

Saw these guys on Ophir Pass in Colorado last week, thought of your project...

Ophir Pass is posted "Four wheel drive or high ground clearance."

http://reid-dalland.smugmug.com/photos/628912284_cBAUq-O.jpg

Model Ts were made for that kind of road - except for climbing. When it gets too steep, they have to go in reverse because the fuel feed from the underseat tanks doesn't flow up. This is probably why the tank was moved to the cowl in the Model A: so Ford still didn't have to make fuel pumps.

[crazydrummerdude]

Well, sirs, the week turn around time turned into a month. They needed a little more than previously thought. They were welded up, new valve seats put in, and a light coat of primer spray on.

A week ago, my brother picked up the A blocks and heads, and a few of his other project pieces. He took block #1 to the local machine shop to get bored to the next size up. We also confirmed that block #1 matches the number on the title, whether or not it was actually the original engine. I had planned on using it anyway, since it's the block my grandpa worked on, and this only makes me happier.

Here's block #2, also good-to-go:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091003103.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091003104.jpg

One of the two heads we brought was supposedly cracked beyond repair. I suppose the non-primered one is it, but I thought my brother also bought a spare ready-to-go head they had laying around.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091003073.jpg

The "original" head was tested good back when we originally started taking the parts to machine shops. I gotta test if it's square, too, and rebuild the water pump.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091003076.jpg

Also, I've cleaned the front end to an acceptable amount. Packed everything with grease. One bearing needs to be replaced, but it's the outer one on the left side, and I can wait a bit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091003071.jpg

It's coming along..

[crazydrummerdude]

Okey doke.

During Thanksgiving break in a two days, and Christmas break in a month, I plan on putting the engine together.

We've got something like 5 sets of pistons, but all sets of different sizes than this engine I'm "currently working" on. So, pistons/rings will be ordered.

I'm thinking of reusing the valves/guides, if they measure up. Is this wise? If not, why not?

I'm wanting to do it as original as I can, so I am starting off looking for a babbit bearing source. (I would like to pour them myself some day, but that will be on a different project.) I heard that a guy in Kansas City, or a shop in Effingham, IL can do them. I don't even have a name/number for either. Anyone have any suggestions?

For the bearing process, I guess I'll have to bring; block, bearing caps/spacers, connecting rods (if they're good); anything else?

I can't wait to get back to all my projects..

[GeoffMiller]

Maybe you already know about it but there is an outfit called Little Dearborn in Minneapolis, MN. that can supply pretty much any part for antique Fords.

[KGT1200]

Nathan,

My Hats off to you! What a great story, and what a great job youre doing!

look like a whole lotto work to me!

But a great job!

[crazydrummerdude]

look like a whole lotto work to me!

But a great job!

You eat an elephant one bite at a time..

Thanks!

[MLS2GO]

Fun to look at what state of the art engineering was back then.

[535is]

Fun to look at what state of the art engineering was back then.
Well, even when new, the Model A was far from "state of the art". What it was was convenient for high volume production in a factory. Ford, and Henry Ford in particular, was not known for technical innovation. He went with what he understood and he stuck with it for as long as possible. So, while Chrysler introduced hydraulic brakes in 1925, Ford had cable brakes throughout the '30s. Chrysler had an all-metal unit body in the 1934 Airflow while Ford kept wood-framed bodies. GM had introduced electric starters in the middle teens, 15 years before Ford started using them. Even the 'sensational' Ford V8 of 1932 was a relatively minor technical variation on the theme of the Model A's four. Then again, what more would you expect from a guy who only stocked one color of paint?

[r1dinman]

It's great to see you bringing a Model A back to like. My first car was a 1930 four door. Unfortunately I chopped it up to make a Hot Rod.

[crazydrummerdude]

Unfortunately I chopped it up to make a Hot Rod.

Everyone I know tells me to chop it, lower it, do this, do that, blahblah.. No way. This was my grandpas, and I'm doing it up the way he'd have done it.

If I found a wrecked/rusted out one somewhere, though.. :whistle

I just added two really, really-"before" pictures to the first post (http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showpost.php?p=474105&postcount=1). That was obviously before it was stolen (and the front fender damaged) and recovered in the ditch. We recently bought a slide projector at a garage sale for $1, and dug out some slides from a drawer at my grandmas house. There are a few of the A. I'll have to fetch those some time, too. It's neat to have this much personal/family history with a project for once. All the rest of my projects have unknown history.

We also confirmed that block #1 matches the number on the title, whether or not it was actually the original engine. I had planned on using it anyway, since it's the block my grandpa worked on, and this only makes me happier.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091031005.jpg

I'm wanting to do it as original as I can, so I am starting off looking for a babbit bearing source.

I found a source (an old skool guy in Jacksonville, IL), and today I was finally able to take my block there.

I'm still not sure about the connecting rods, but he's going to clean up the crank, pour the bearings, and it'll be ready for me/reassembly.

[crazydrummerdude]

I'm still not sure about the connecting rods, but he's going to clean up the crank, pour the bearings, and it'll be ready for me/reassembly.

I asked him like 10 times, "Do you want my connecting rods?" "Should I bring my connecting rods?" He kept saying no, and that he'd give me a number of a guy I'd send mine to, and get re-babbitted ones in return.

Of course, after I got home from the journey (120 miles one way), he left me a voicemail saying "Oh yeah, I could do your rods, too."

:bluduh

He has some there that he'll hook me up with, in exchange for my old ones and some $$. I guess this is ok, but, man! ...

Wednesday December 30, 2009 Hours: ~3, Expenses: $0
So, now with the engine almost ready for reassembly, I better get to work on some of the parts I put up on a shelf. Transmission's rebuilt/repainted, engine will be the same. Time to clean up the in-between pieces.

Took the bell housing down and continued scraping. I'd say all of the 80 year old grease has evaporated, and left being all the gunk. I figured I'd scrape off a lot of it, so I don't waste time with the sand-blaster. This is because out of all the tools we have in the shop, our sandblaster is a total-loss system. Gotta get a cabinet.

This rod, which is supposed to hold the bolts on the bottom of the bell housing (in which the front suspension "A" member connects), is bent. This made it confusing as I was digging in, and tearing apart.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091230007.jpg

All the pedals/shafts were pinned, a few of which were peened. Such as:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091230019.jpg

Haven't been able to get the pedal shaft off;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20091230017.jpg

It has more of a pressed rivet, than a peened pin.

..and I kind-of don't want to paint it. Ha. It looks too cool like this. But, it would be dumb not to at this point. I think my grandpa would have, and I know my uncle would. So, I will. I also cleaned off the piece that physically connects the bell housing to the engine. My uncle (the owner) gave me a few more bucks to spend on it, so work continues..

[Motor31]

If it doesn't take much time, can you explain what you mean by pouring the bearings? I kind of have this picture in mind of the crank in place and pouring molten babbit into the gaps to make the bearings but that seems a bit off. I think it would tend to plug the oil galleys. Just curious as that is new to me.

[88bmwJeff]

If it doesn't take much time, can you explain what you mean by pouring the bearings? I kind of have this picture in mind of the crank in place and pouring molten babbit into the gaps to make the bearings but that seems a bit off. I think it would tend to plug the oil galleys. Just curious as that is new to me.


Google came to the rescue.

http://gasengine.farmcollector.com/Gas-Engines/Pouring-Babbitt-Bearings.aspx

[crazydrummerdude]

Google came to the rescue.

http://gasengine.farmcollector.com/Gas-Engines/Pouring-Babbitt-Bearings.aspx

Ah, yes. That's roughly how I understood. I know I'm going to try it eventually, but not on the "original" engine in my grandpas Model A..

[Motor31]

Thanks Jeff. That's kind if what I was thinking it was but it's way more involved than I thought. The low temps involved were a definite surprise. That stuff must really be soft.

[crazydrummerdude]

That stuff must really be soft.

Well, it's essentially (often ~80%) lead. You can easily bend it with your hands, like a wheel weight.

Edit: Oh, and I see the pictures on that link are of an old stationary engine. We've got a few of those...

[crazydrummerdude]

Wednesday January 6, 2010 Hours: ~3, Expenses: $0
Got the clutch bell housing and flywheel housing scraped down as good as I'm going to get it before sandblasting. That was the part I was looking forward to the least of this stage. Same for the transmission top. I still have to take it apart, though. (Note to self; Safety glasses!) Took the throw out bearing off the throw out.. hub, and it's now soaking in the parts washer with the pedals/whatnot.

By the way, I'm surprised the pedals didn't have grease fittings. The pedal shaft was worn considerably.

Thursday January 7, 2010 Hours: 0, Expenses: ~$400
Just bought:
A12275A "Spark Plug Connectors, Straight"
A6008CLH Gasket Set less Head Gasket
A6051M Premium Head Gasket
A6335 Rear Main Oil Seal
A8620A "Fan Belts, Black, 43 inch"
M200 Engine Paint
A9433 Manifold Gasket - 2 Piece
A9447 "Carb Gasket, Paper"
A12405RE Spark Plugs
A750609 Brake and Clutch Pedal Shaft Set - A7506/09
A8591SSB Stainless/Leakless Pump Kit - Brass
BB009 Black Radiator Hose with Red Strip - 28-29
A11450G "Starter Switch Gasket, Made in USA"
A11450 Starter Switch
A1216 Front Wheel Outer Bearing
A6149-080 Piston Rings - .080
A7580 Clutch Throw-Out Bearing
A7600 Flywheel Pilot Bearing

If I had $400 more, I would have bought the .080 over pistons. :hungover

Edit: Whoops, haha.. I'm dumb. It's $100 for the set of four, not for just one. Consider them ordered as well!

[crazydrummerdude]

Google came to the rescue.

http://gasengine.farmcollector.com/Gas-Engines/Pouring-Babbitt-Bearings.aspx

Take a look at this (http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=147&SID=60)! Excellent.

[Motor31]

Outstanding link there, thanks.

[franze]

interesting thread.........don't understand any of the mechanical stuff but I do understand legacy. Beat the drum.

[crazydrummerdude]

Saturday March 27,2010 Hours: ~1, Expenses: $480

Re-babbit-ed, new timing gear installed, ground crank, and larger oil return line:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100327039.jpg

and shimmed accordingly:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100327037.jpg

I got re-babbit-ed and re-bushing-ed vintage connecting rods, and they're currently getting fitted to the piston pins. Monday or Tuesday, they'll be back, and the engine reassembly will begin.

Also, tonight, I tried out my new-to-me sand blasting cabinet on a few engine pieces, and primed them up. Spring break started yesterday evening. I'm excited.

[Motor31]

Now the exciting part starts, putting it back together. How long do you figure before you fire it up?

[crazydrummerdude]

Now the exciting part starts, putting it back together. How long do you figure before you fire it up?

I'm still at the beginning of spring break. So, I'm going to try to assemble and repaint as much of the engine/transmission as I can. My motorcycles are either functioning properly, or are broken at a good stopping point. :laugh I would love to see the engine back in the car by next Sunday night.

The valves will need a closer going-over, as I haven't looked at them much since I took them off. As these parts are readily available, it should be smooth(er) sailing from this point on.. even if they do need to be replaced.

The last important area that I haven't looked into what-so-ever is the radiator. Well, I have the hoses.. but, for my entire conscious life, I don't remember the radiator being anything other than an old dusty piece of metal leaned up against the wall in the corner of my shop.

My uncle is having a car show over on his property on May 1st. I fantasize about throwing some seats in it and driving it there.

The future is bright.

[crazydrummerdude]

Sunday March 28,2010 Hours: ~4, Expenses: $0

It gets to a point where you start fumbling around too much and have to call it quits. Although it doesn't look like much, today I:

Blasted some parts (thank God for my birthday present to myself):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100328001.jpg

Primed some parts (the water line needs some pinholes brazed):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100328002.jpg

Installed the piston rings:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100328006.jpg

Rebuilt the actual transmission from the car:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100328007.jpg

..and rebuilt the clutch actuator mechanism:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100328009.jpg

:dance

[crazydrummerdude]

Monday, March 29, 2010 Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0

The top of the transmission, like the bell housing, I had been putting off and putting off. The amount of dirt and grease caked on really was uninteresting to me.

:ha

Well, I dug in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100329001.jpg

I wonder what the part with the teeth on it is..

I was going to rebuild the water pump tonight, too, but I can't get the pulley (already warped) or fan (cracked in a couple places) to budge.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100329008.jpg

I'll try again tomorrow.

[Hodag]

good stuff

[crazydrummerdude]

Saturday April 3, 2010 Hours: ~3, Expenses: $60

Well, got the rods back. They look good, but I had to clean out all the shavings. About halfway through:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100403334.jpg

Put the pistons together.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100403335.jpg

Started putting the block together, but the more I saw, the more I didn't believe the last guy when he said that it's ready for reassembly. There were chips/shavings/grit in every nook and cranny. So, I gave the block a long bath.

After I cleaned it up, and killed some time, I got the pistons in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100403338.jpg

Then, it was time to look into the valves. They actually cleaned up pretty well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100403336.jpg

..and I let the guides soak, just to see what they'll look like cleaned up. I haven't decided yet what all needs replacing on this end.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/20100403337.jpg

[Motor31]

Just a couple questions. What did you soak the guides in? Are you planning to hand lap the valves to the new seats?

[crazydrummerdude]

Just a couple questions. What did you soak the guides in? Are you planning to hand lap the valves to the new seats?

Diesel.

Yes.

[BubbaZanetti]

Yes.

Need any valve lapping paste? I got some and at the rate I use it to remove difficult fastners once every 4 years it'll probably last me till I'm on my deathbed.:whistle

[crazydrummerdude]

Never heard of using it to remove difficult-to-remove fasteners.

I think I have an ancient tub of it sitting on the bench. We'll see when I go back to the shop next weekend.

[crazydrummerdude]

Saturday April 10, 2010 Hours: ~1, Expenses: $0

Measured up the valves. They actually look aftermarket, and pretty nice. They'll be reused.

Measured up the guides.. wow. WAY off. What's supposed to be a .001" to .0015" clearance is more like .010". So, new guides (and springs are in order).

The lifters, I'm not sure about. Stay old skool and grind the valves, or get adjustable? Hmm...

Camshaft, I haven't looked at since I took it out of the engine. But, I'm almost there.

You guys who live with your shop in your back yard or garage.. are lucky. While away at school, I have to drive 120 miles to get to mine.

[JStrube]

I'm at the Lone Star Roundup... Saw a few A's, my brothers 28 is this one:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4741/lonestarroundup03709993.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/lonestarroundup03709993.jpg/)

Runs a flathead & the original closed driveline gear. A guy had a hopped up Miller headed 30 coupe that was neat:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6987/img06101297757.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/img06101297757.jpg/)

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1686/img06081291559.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/i/img06081291559.jpg/)

I'll have to get some photos of the T roadster my other bro is building for Bonneville. He is planning to run the Vintage Flat 4 class with a Model A engine. Record is right at 134 MPH if I remember right.

[crazydrummerdude]

I couldn't imagine owning anything as nice as those. Wow.

[Statdawg]

I couldn't imagine owning anything as nice as those. Wow.

Yours is priceless because it was in your family. :thumb

[crazydrummerdude]

Thursday January 7, 2010 Hours: 0, Expenses: ~$400
Just bought:
...

Saturday April 24, 2010 Hours: 0, Expenses: ~$240
Just bought:
A8600A 2-Blade Cast Aluminum Fans
A6377 Safety Wire
A9431 Manifold Studs
A600W 600 W - Oil
A6570 Oil Pump Drive Gear Spring
A6600 Oil Pump Kit
A6620 Oil Pump Retainer Spring
A7227 Transmission Shift Lever Spring
A1180 Rear Wheel Snap Ring
A7095 U-Joint Washer And Bolt
A7000GB Gear Shift Boot
A6510 Valve Guides - Set
A6513 Valve Springs - Set
A606466 Head Stud and Nut Set
A6500 Adjustable Lifters - Split Bolt type - Tappets

It's "funny" how many parts you forget to order when you order all the parts you can think of.

[The_Veg]

Been a while since I checked in on this thread. Thanks Nathan for keeping us updated! Looks like such a fun project. I really wish I had some of my dad's old cars- they would have been great projects!

[crazydrummerdude]

My uncle (technically the real owner of it) has been inspired by my effort/interest. I wish I could say progress, too, but it's been slow.

He is a perfectionist. He does amazing work. I am excited to see what he does with the car; but also I can guarantee that I wouldn't do nearly as much as I know he will.

So...

Saturday November 27, 2010 Hours: ~3, Expenses: $0

Well, for the first time in 20+ years, the car has been outside the shop.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs578.ash2/150067_10150326191050191_576805190_16081215_725102 7_n.jpg

..and moved to its new home.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs987.snc4/76014_10150326191195191_576805190_16081218_4914701 _n.jpg

..with everything but the engine and transmission.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1139.snc4/148161_10150326190905191_576805190_16081213_487101 8_n.jpg

I'm excited. My uncle does phenomenal work, for instance, one building over:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs498.ash2/77141_10150326191290191_576805190_16081221_6370515 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs492.ash2/76586_10150326191425191_576805190_16081223_179909_ n.jpg

He saw me taking pictures of his plane, and said, "The Model A's going to look 20 times nicer."

:eek

Awesome.

He told me that my grandpa got this '29 Model A in ~1964 because he was nostalgic for the '29 A he had before WWII (in which he served at Iwo Jima, among other places). Didn't know that's why he got it.

He then showed me the basics of riveting, since that's something I've never done before. As I left, he extended an open invitation to come work on it any time. Can't wait for winter break.

[Ken F]

Thanks for putting up an update Nathan! Hopefully your uncle lives close enough so it's convienant to go over and work on it often.

That plane looks like a museum piece! Truely amazing.

460

[DRUDOLPH148006]

Is that a Luscombe 8A ?

[crazydrummerdude]

Hopefully your uncle lives close enough so it's convienant to go over and work on it often.

The hangar's a 10 minute drive from my mommy's house.. where I'll be staying over winter break. :thumb

Is that a Luscombe 8A ?

It's a 1953 Cessna 170B.

[RedBeemer]

Please tell me that bird is flown!!! Gorgeous!

How long did it take to polish it to that level of brightness? How many barrels of Flits?

[crazydrummerdude]

Please tell me that bird is flown!!! Gorgeous!

He flies it all the time. :thumb

http://www.historicaircraftrestorationmuseum.org/images/c170.jpg
Photo credit Don Parsons

How long did it take to polish it to that level of brightness?

Wonder what took longer.. the polishing or the riveting!?

You should see his '69 Camaro, too!

[crazydrummerdude]

The Model A body is coming off the frame this week. I won't be there to take pictures, but my uncle said he bought a camera of his own to document this.

This is gonna get good..

:thumb

[crazydrummerdude]

This is gonna get good..

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs606.ash2/155831_10150339616625191_576805190_16306489_268404 8_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1174.snc4/154650_10150339616575191_576805190_16306488_741655 8_n.jpg

[radan2]

So what are you going to do with it during the Christmas break?

(Really enjoying this thread) :clap

[crazydrummerdude]

So what are you going to do with it during the Christmas break?

Not sure. I still have the engine. I plan on putting it back together. I hope to spend some time at his shop, learnin' a thing or two.

[mfifer]

Nathan , I just stumbled onto this thread and I have to tell you , I am so jealous!
I always wanted to have the space and tools to restore a car but never could.
You are one Luckydrummerdude Crazydrummerdude!!

Beautiful !!!!!!!!:bow:bow:bow:clap

[crazydrummerdude]

I always wanted to have the space and tools to restore a car but never could.

Who says I have the space?

:ha

[crazydrummerdude]

My brother and I picked up a slide projector for $1 from a garage sale, and started sifting through some slides at my grandmas house. Here's a blast from the past, my uncle Dave riding shotgun with the family dog; taken in mid-to-late 1960's.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1335.snc4/162752_10150353192140191_576805190_16575542_772769 9_n.jpg

:ha

...

Well, my uncle said he could use my help. So,

Tuesday, December 28, 2010. Hours: ~2, Expenses: $0

Gas tank (dash) is out.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs014.snc6/166397_10150353192240191_576805190_16575546_336279 9_n.jpg

The tank has the date on it: 4-20-29.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs746.ash1/163889_10150353192765191_576805190_16575564_337016 9_n.jpg

Axles removed. There's only rivets holding the frame together now.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs049.snc4/34806_10150353192485191_576805190_16575552_8108479 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1366.snc4/163891_10150353192680191_576805190_16575561_163143 0_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1395.snc4/164760_10150353192370191_576805190_16575550_372439 2_n.jpg

The pile grows.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1338.snc4/163041_10150353192930191_576805190_16575569_636882 7_n.jpg

In terms of the reground camshaft, I was pissed. The pictures don't do it justice:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/P1030308.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/model_a/P1030307.jpg

I don't think the bearing surfaces are supposed to be gouged and pitted.

I exchanged the camshaft. I actually got the original one to the engine back. It looks good.