Tough Political Choice...

[gambrinus]

Through all of this political season, I've listened to all the arguments.. for this, against that.. I'm still undecided though.

I just can't decide between the two choices.

[gambrinus]

Option #1

[gambrinus]

Or perhaps Option #2??

[James.A]

If only you could have it both ways.

[gambrinus]

The mere thought of that will keep a smile on my face for the rest of the day....


RW

[R100RS]

The choice seems pretty clear to me...

only one of them got the "thumbs up"

[MarkF]

I always thought Jenna was the hotter, in a girls gone wild way. But my son, 14 years old, set the record straight. It's Babs! Hard to believe with Jenna's attributes and blonde hair. Maybe non-airhead is in. See how I wiggled in some BMW content there?

MarkF

[gambrinus]

I think I may be onboard with your kid. I'm seriously leaning toward option #1 (Barbara) Smart IS sexy...

[YB in IN]

I have to put myself fully into the Jenna camp. ;)

[Rich]

Definitely Option 1. The smart conservative look. Option 2 looks like a favorable choice for the younger crowd. Dang, I'm getting old. ;)

[Hodag]

I would write in the US olympic beach volleyball team. Would not mind stripping them of their medals.
Oh mamma......

Mark

[MarkF]

Originally posted by Mark11LT
I would write in the US olympic beach volleyball team. Would mind stripping them of their medals.
Oh mamma......

Mark

My father-in-law, in his 70's, calls it Thong Volleyball. He's a big fan.

MarkF

[DDHR1150RT]

Originally posted by MarkF
My father-in-law, in his 70's, calls it Thong Volleyball. He's a big fan.

MarkF

Hehe, might as well be neekid voleyball!!:bliss

What's next, liquid latex? That would be just fine by me!:clap

[DDHR1150RT]

Is it me or does Babs look like Liv Tyler?:yow

Both can ring my vote!:eek

[DDHR1150RT]

Liv Tyler Pic. Sorry, I goofed up the attach on the last post. Lets see if this one works.

[DDHR1150RT]

SWEET! It worked! Now how's about this one:

[R100RS]

Originally posted by MarkF
I always thought Jenna was the hotter, in a girls gone wild way. But my son, 14 years old, set the record straight. It's Babs! Hard to believe with Jenna's attributes and blonde hair. Maybe non-airhead is in. See how I wiggled in some BMW content there?

MarkF

They have names?

[username]

down here we simply refer to them as 'drunk and drunker.'

[gambrinus]

Username, But which would you prefer... and don't say "drunk" or "drunker". As fellow BMW rider Neil Peart once wrote "If choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

Cheers

RW

ps I think Barbara AND Liv are both quite saucy, but I don't see much of a resemblance between the two

[YB in IN]

Originally posted by gambrinus
Username, But which would you prefer... and don't say "drunk" or "drunker". As fellow BMW rider Neil Peart once wrote "If choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

Cheers

RW

ps I think Barbara AND Liv are both quite saucy, but I don't see much of a resemblance between the two

Now is "drunk" and "drunker" and option?;)

[username]

my goal isn't to wreck the fun being had on this thread, but i think this thread is a little distasteful. the whole 'be a guy and pick/rate girls' thing doesnt work for me. i just dont get it. it's chauvinistic. for some reason i think it's ok to make fun of the bush twins, but to "choose" them, or whatever the heck is going on, doesnt seem quite right. (i may be wrong.)

so my opinion on these two, other than that they shouldve waited till they were 21 to go bar-hopping is that i'd like to think these young women will have dignified lives and use their family's power and influence to make the world a better place for everyone.

[Burnszilla]

I am outraged! Liv Tyler does not fit in this topic.
Alexandra Kerry would be the other choice.

Picture deleted by your friendly neighborhood moderator - sorry man, that one ain't gonna fly in this forum.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by username
my goal isn't to wreck the fun being had on this thread, but i think this thread is a little distasteful. the whole 'be a guy and pick/rate girls' thing doesnt work for me. i just dont get it. it's chauvinistic. for some reason i think it's ok to make fun of the bush twins, but to "choose" them, or whatever the heck is going on, doesnt seem quite right. (i may be wrong.)

Not right or wrong just your opinion. You are entitled to it. So skip the thread and let those of us not offended enjoy ourselves. Personally, I don't read the K-bike threads and could not careless about their content. That's the beauty of free choice. So if the female (or some male) members wanna poke fun at some young hunks - go for it. I, for one, will not be offended. To each their own!

MarkF

[paulsibek]

The choice is between a war hero and a slacker(s).

This is the party that trashed one of their own, John McCain, questioning his patriotism and comittment to veterans.

This is the party that manipulated the facts to get us into a war, instead of taking care of the terrorists.

These are the "oil-men" who gave us the the highest oil prices in history.

This is the most arrogant, vile, mean spirited administration that money can buy.

[gambrinus]

Paul, Don't hold back on us. Tell us how you really feel. Not so sure about the war hero bit, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. 3 Purple Hearts in 4 months is pretty good (or bad depending on your situation). Odd thing is that he managed all of these wounds without a SINGLE day spent in a hospital? He's not only a hero, he's a superhero!! Must keep the cape tucked in under his tailored suit...;)

RW

[The_Veg]

I'd like to think these young women will have dignified lives and use their family's power and influence to make the world a better place for everyone.

Is that a note of sarcasm I detect? Because if so I agree completely! I like what Michael Feldman said this weekend on Whad'Ya Know about them having the best fake IDs in TexSux! $5 says that's true! CIA prob'ly made 'em...

And Liv gets my vote here!

And while I really don't care about the Vietnam stuff (don't tell anyone lest I be 'disappeared' before I get a chance to vote), I otherwise agree with Paul.

[LTOwner]

Three purple hearts got you out of Nam. Kerry and everyone else there knew it. He got his three and out, including the self inflicted one.

[DarrylRi]

Originally posted by LTOwner
Three purple hearts got you out of Nam. Kerry and everyone else there knew it. He got his three and out, including the self inflicted one. So, you're saying that you do actually think that he did get shot at and injured in combat twice while in country on a tour he volunteered for?

I mean, as compared to getting 5 deferments while having "other priorities" (an actual Cheney quote), or taking nearly a year off in Alabama to campaign for a family friend? And then having the sheer gall to viciously go after any veteran's record who does campaign against them?

Is that what you're saying?

[gambrinus]

I think the Bush campaign has been VERY smart and careful to NOT specifically attack Kerry's Vietnam record. The 527 groups (Swift Boat Vets) have been doing a fine job of it themselves. This is a bit dirty, but no worse than the Dem 527 groups such as moveon.org. It's all politics baby! He said this, some other guys says that. "Hey I was there" "No, I was there"... "He did this" "NO, he did NOT".. back and forth. I'm a Bush supporter (If you couldn't tell) and I tend to only believe about half of what comes out from EITHER side. On Bush and Cheney

Bush had help to get into the Air Guard as did a lot of other folks with connections

He did go to pilot training and learn to fly fighter jets which is no walk in the park

He didn't go to Vietnam since NO ONE who flew the type of plane that he flew went.

Cheney had student deferments and if had gotten to the physical bit, do we really think he would have passed knowing now what we do about the guys heart. Even at a young age it was probably screwedup. Once again, Cheney was far from the only guy to spend the war years in college

Kerry gets a nod and a pat on the back from me for going. It is what he did there that will NEVER be fully known without some measure of doubt. There are just too many different stories out there. If he had done nothing more than shown up and done his job and gone home, he'd be far better off today. Not too many guys made their own bio-pic war movies while they were there. Not too many other guys rung up their 3 purple hearts in such a short time with NO hospital stays... I think he had a very definate plan to do what he had to do to make himself out to be GI Joe stud war hero and get home in one piece.

The actions that he took after the war did more to insult and degrade the service of others who served far more than any political observer today who DARES to ask valid questions about his vietnam record.

Getting away from the vietnam / 1970s stuff, fast fwd to his Senate record. It's a RECORD he voted either YES or NO. Not much debate to be had there. You either agree with him or you don't . Either way the record is there for thinking, voting people to see and decide for themselves.

Edwards is of such low standing in my eyes that it's hardly worth talking about. Morals and decency may be completely missing from him. NOT all lawyers are evil, but his type and he in particular are right at the top of the list of reasons why we have sky-hi health care costs. I have a few Doctors in my family so I know about insurance costs and the stories of guys closing up their practices because of liability fears (ob / gyn) This was lawyer Edwards field of play...

I DO think it is interesting to discuss issues with folks who are intelligent enough to have a back and forth without getting huffy and having the discussion degrade into a name-calling match.

Time to go for a ride...

RW

[DarrylRi]

Originally posted by gambrinus
I think the Bush campaign has been VERY smart and careful to NOT specifically attack Kerry's Vietnam record. The 527 groups (Swift Boat Vets) have been doing a fine job of it themselves. This is a bit dirty, but no worse than the Dem 527 groups such as moveon.org. It's all politics baby!
That's a nice, easy way out of it. It was politics what Bush did to McCain in SC 4 years ago, too. I think even Nixon would have blushed over that.

Bush had help to get into the Air Guard as did a lot of other folks with connections

He did go to pilot training and learn to fly fighter jets which is no walk in the park But not exactly like being shot at, right?

Cheney had student deferments and if had gotten to the physical bit, do we really think he would have passed knowing now what we do about the guys heart. Even at a young age it was probably screwedup. Once again, Cheney was far from the only guy to spend the war years in collegePure speculation on your part. Lots of veterans later come down with heart disease. He worked very hard not to get drafted, and now he has the nerve to get up in front of the RNC and question Kerry's commitment and patriotism.

Kerry gets a nod and a pat on the back from me for going. It is what he did there that will NEVER be fully known without some measure of doubt. There are just too many different stories out there. If he had done nothing more than shown up and done his job and gone home, he'd be far better off today.
That's fine to say, but every written report that has come out of the records is on Kerry's side. The Swift Boat Vets are so pissed off at Kerry about his antiwar protests that I believe they would say anything at all about him, including contradicting their own reports and disavowing their own medals for courage under fire.

Not too many guys made their own bio-pic war movies while they were there.
And how does that have any bearing at all about his service record?

Not too many other guys rung up their 3 purple hearts in such a short time with NO hospital stays...
I'd like to see the data on that statement.

I think he had a very definate plan to do what he had to do to make himself out to be GI Joe stud war hero and get home in one piece.
But he did go, and did get shot at, and he did take his chances, right? As compared to Bush and Cheney?

The actions that he took after the war did more to insult and degrade the service of others who served far more than any political observer today who DARES to ask valid questions about his vietnam record.
Why is it that everyone who is so angry at Kerry's antiwar protests seems to feel he impugned every last soldier who went and fought? He gave testimony that said there were war crimes and atrocities committed by the US forces. Is that really a surprise? Are you telling me that Mai Lai never happened? Or that it's a lot different from Abu Ghraib or the 4 Navy SEALs that are under indictment?

Getting away from the vietnam / 1970s stuff, fast fwd to his Senate record. It's a RECORD he voted either YES or NO. Not much debate to be had there. You either agree with him or you don't . Either way the record is there for thinking, voting people to see and decide for themselves.
Just as Bush's 4 years in office are a hard record, too. Did Kerry ever spend nearly $700B more than he took in? (That's going from a $236B surplus 4 years ago to a $450B deficit now.)

Edwards is of such low standing in my eyes that it's hardly worth talking about. Morals and decency may be completely missing from him. NOT all lawyers are evil, but his type and he in particular are right at the top of the list of reasons why we have sky-hi health care costs. I have a few Doctors in my family so I know about insurance costs and the stories of guys closing up their practices because of liability fears (ob / gyn) This was lawyer Edwards field of play...
"Morals and decency"? You are using those words to defend Bush/Cheney? The administration that lied by ommission to Congress about how much the new Medicare plan would cost? The one that now is going to hike Medicare costs by 17% next year? Was it moral and decent to foment a rumor about McCain's "black child" in SC 4 years ago? When does "it's all politcs, baby!" turn into a question about morals and decency?

I DO think it is interesting to discuss issues with folks who are intelligent enough to have a back and forth without getting huffy and having the discussion degrade into a name-calling match.
Please show me where I called anyone a name. I am sticking to what I can see as the published facts, and identifying what I think as my opinion.

[YB in IN]

Originally posted by gambrinus
Bush had help to get into the Air Guard as did a lot of other folks with connections

He did go to pilot training and learn to fly fighter jets which is no walk in the park

He didn't go to Vietnam since NO ONE who flew the type of plane that he flew went.


Yes, thank God our president kept the skies of Lubbock safe from any VC invasions. Now that's heroism.

[gambrinus]

Garth, His WHOLE unit stayed in Texas. Not as if he got special treatment. To Daryl.. On my last bit, I honestly enjoy discussions with folks that don't agree with my views... I meant what I said about having discussions without huffy name calling as an honest compliment, no sarcasm intended or implied.

I really did start this thread as an excuse to talk about the twins....


RW

[gambrinus]

quote:
Originally posted by gambrinus
I think the Bush campaign has been VERY smart and careful to NOT specifically attack Kerry's Vietnam record.

That's a nice, easy way out of it. It was politics what Bush did to McCain in SC 4 years ago, too. I think even Nixon would have blushed over that.

-Bush has not attacked the records of McCain or Kerry

But not exactly like being shot at, right?
-I never said that he was shot at.

He worked very hard not to get drafted, and now he has the nerve to get up in front of the RNC and question Kerry's commitment and patriotism.

-So just exactlly WHO is allowed to question these tales of heroism and magic wounds earned in a land far away in a time long ago? Not Cheney who wasn't there, and apparently not even the guys who were there in the boats with the guy..

Not too many guys made their own bio-pic war movies while they were there.

And how does that have any bearing at all about his service record?
-I don't think it has a direct bearing on the record, but it does speak volumes about the man and what he considered to be important at the time.

quote:
Not too many other guys rung up their 3 purple hearts in such a short time with NO hospital stays...

I'd like to see the data on that statement.
-oops busted on that one. I should have given credit to the original speaker of that point... Bob Dole. You know, the guy with the purple heart and the wound to show for it.. So, no I don't have the data on that one, but Kerry has been most careful to let that charge slide by without comment.

quote:
The actions that he took after the war did more to insult and degrade the service of others who served far more than any political observer today who DARES to ask valid questions about his vietnam record.

Why is it that everyone who is so angry at Kerry's antiwar protests seems to feel he impugned every last soldier who went and fought?
-Because that is just what he did. He gave the enemy comments and support that guys took beatings in P.O.W. camps to avoid giving. The time for his actions are AFTER the war, NOT during the war when guys were still over there.

Are you telling me that Mai Lai never happened?
-I never denied it. Kerry was of the opinion that it was the rule rather than the exception. I don't agree with him and you apparently do.

quote:
Getting away from the vietnam / 1970s stuff, fast fwd to his Senate record. It's a RECORD he voted either YES or NO. Not much debate to be had there. You either agree with him or you don't . Either way the record is there for thinking, voting people to see and decide for themselves.

Just as Bush's 4 years in office are a hard record, too.

-agreed. You have to look at both records and think for yourself. Nothing that I say about Kerry's attedance record for senate votes or committee meetings will change your mind so I'll just move on..


Did Kerry ever spend nearly $700B more than he took in? (That's going from a $236B surplus 4 years ago to a $450B deficit now.)
-Kerry will spend every dime of yours and mine that he can get his hands on. He's never seen a tax that he didn't like.


quote:
Edwards is of such low standing in my eyes that it's hardly worth talking about. Morals and decency may be completely missing from him. NOT all lawyers are evil, but his type and he in particular are right at the top of the list of reasons why we have sky-hi health care costs. I have a few Doctors in my family so I know about insurance costs and the stories of guys closing up their practices because of liability fears (ob / gyn) This was lawyer Edwards field of play...

"Morals and decency"? You are using those words to defend Bush/Cheney?
-No, I used the lack of those qualities to describe Edwards which you have chosen to ignore in your reply.
There is a difference between making a rebutal to a charge and just issuing a charge of your own..

Was it moral and decent to foment a rumor about McCain's "black child" in SC 4 years ago?
- That was NEVER linked to the Bush campaign, and was 100% disavowed by Bush.

quote:
I DO think it is interesting to discuss issues with folks who are intelligent enough to have a back and forth without getting huffy and having the discussion degrade into a name-calling match.

Please show me where I called anyone a name. I am sticking to what I can see as the published facts, and identifying what I think as my opinion.

- That was a COMPLIMENT from me to you. I didn't mean to imply that you did those things, rather I hold you as one of those who CAN hold an intelligent discussion without wandering off into name calling.

RW





__________________

[MarkF]

Most of these on-line debates will be written by Bush Supporters or A.B.B. (Anybody But Bush) also known as Kerry Supporters. We will know little about how the undecided feels about the issues because they remain silent. While supporters tend to ignore their own guys warts. Remember, in America the president is decided byt the undecideds and unaffiliated in a few keys states. That is why the popular vote is usually +/- a few percent. Never like the 99% Saddam Hussein got in the last election!

MarkF

[gambrinus]

You bring up a great point, the undecided or uninspired indifferent voters in a few "toss-up" states will determine this election. There are states that are so solid Kerry or solid Bush that those electoral votes are "in the bag" for that canidate. States like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado are the ones where this will be decided.

RW

[DarrylRi]

Originally posted by gambrinus
- That was a COMPLIMENT from me to you. I didn't mean to imply that you did those things, rather I hold you as one of those who CAN hold an intelligent discussion without wandering off into name calling.Sorry, I misread the tone of your post.

-Bush has not attacked the records of McCain or KerrySo what Zell Miller, the keynote speaker, and Cheney were saying last week at the RNC Convention, that wasn't an attack, I take it. Or do you mean that because it didn't come out of Bush's own particular mouth, that he doesn't agree with it? And when Bush stood on the stage in SC with the fellow who did attack McCain, because he didn't actually say any of it himself, that means he didn't agree with it and support it?

I mean, if he didn't agree with all that, then why didn't he say so? And if he didn't support all of that, then why was it happening with him as the backdrop?

But not exactly like being shot at, right?
-I never said that he was shot at. That's exactly my point. Kerry went to war, didn't stay home and hide behind whatever diversion his rich family could come up with.

Kerry has actually seen what a war is about first hand, and because of that I expect that he would be a lot more reluctant to get us into one that we didn't need to be in, like the one in Iraq where we are suffering 7 casualties and one death every day (on average -- never mind that 7 were killed yesterday).

He worked very hard not to get drafted, and now he has the nerve to get up in front of the RNC and question Kerry's commitment and patriotism.

-So just exactlly WHO is allowed to question these tales of heroism and magic wounds earned in a land far away in a time long ago? Not Cheney who wasn't there, and apparently not even the guys who were there in the boats with the guy..Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say Cheney wasn't allowed to criticize Kerry -- that would be the kind of thing that the Patriot Act would allow John Ashcroft to do -- I only said that Cheney had one helluva lotta nerve to do it when he did his level best to avoid the service.

And it's not just Cheney and Bush. Nobody in the top echelon of civilian posts at the Pentagon (eg, Rumsfeld, Feith or Wolfowitz) has been there, done that.

As far as the SBV group, their credibility is zero. They haven't got one piece of paper to hold up from the military archives to support their version of events, and each excuse they have offered has fallen in front of more facts (for example, Kerry wrote the report that gave Thurlow his silver star; the report was marked with someone else's initials and contained information that Kerry wouldn't have known). These guys are as believable as Fox News.

Not too many other guys rung up their 3 purple hearts in such a short time with NO hospital stays...

I'd like to see the data on that statement.
-oops busted on that one. I should have given credit to the original speaker of that point... Bob Dole. You know, the guy with the purple heart and the wound to show for it.. So, no I don't have the data on that one, but Kerry has been most careful to let that charge slide by without comment.Bob Dole, like he was an eyewitness to the events, too.

If you were Kerry, where would you spend your precious time and campaign money? Rebutting Bob Dole?

Show me some hard facts on this.

The actions that he took after the war did more to insult and degrade the service of others who served far more than any political observer today who DARES to ask valid questions about his vietnam record.

Why is it that everyone who is so angry at Kerry's antiwar protests seems to feel he impugned every last soldier who went and fought?
-Because that is just what he did. He gave the enemy comments and support that guys took beatings in P.O.W. camps to avoid giving. The time for his actions are AFTER the war, NOT during the war when guys were still over there.Are you saying that it's all right to ignore everything that happens during a war, to await a proper review afterwards? The Vietnam war went on for 10 years! I learned in civics class that "justice delayed is justice denied".

I keep hearing that we are supposed to be bringing a civilizing influence to these benighted areas of the world. If we cannot follow our own laws, even in a time of a "police action", then what makes us any better than the Iraqis under Saddam? When we cheat on our own rules, we cheat ourselves. Locking away combatants from Afghanistan at Guantanimo for years without trial is a message to the rest of the world that we don't believe in our own laws. We didn't do that at the end of WWII.

Are you telling me that Mai Lai never happened?
-I never denied it. Kerry was of the opinion that it was the rule rather than the exception. I don't agree with him and you apparently do.Would you agree that Mai Lai was not a unique incident? That just perhaps a certain small percentage of brutality went on during the course of the war? I think it highly unlikely that this isn't true. I also think that nearly all who were drafted, served honorably, and then went home. That still doesn't mean that things like Mai Lai and intentionally fragging a superior shouldn't be investigated and tried.

-agreed. You have to look at both records and think for yourself. Nothing that I say about Kerry's attedance record for senate votes or committee meetings will change your mind so I'll just move on..Please don't think that I can't change my mind. Or that I'm a died-in-the-wool Democrat (registered independent, as a matter of fact). I simply don't see that anything in Kerry's record begins to be as bad as what Bush has done in the last four years. I believe Bush's policies wage war on the middle class, and I believe the strength of this country is based in the middle class. We have a name for countries that have a small middle class -- Third World. I don't want to live in the third world.

Did Kerry ever spend nearly $700B more than he took in? (That's going from a $236B surplus 4 years ago to a $450B deficit now.)
-Kerry will spend every dime of yours and mine that he can get his hands on. He's never seen a tax that he didn't like.Kerry will have a damned hard time getting a tax increase unless the Republicans controlling congress give it to him.

With Kerry's economic team mostly taken from the Clinton administration, and in particular, Robert Rubin, architect of the $236B surplus that Bush has pissed away, I hope to see the red ink stop and an attempt made to get back to even.

And in any event, please tell me how Tax and Spend is worse than merely Spend. To me, it seems the height of sobriety after Bush's amazing spending spree. And what do we have to show for all those billions? Some kind of new infrastructure we can leave to the next generation? A cleaner environment? New technology? Just what have we gotten for $700B?

"Morals and decency"? You are using those words to defend Bush/Cheney?
-No, I used the lack of those qualities to describe Edwards which you have chosen to ignore in your reply.
There is a difference between making a rebutal to a charge and just issuing a charge of your own.. If I may just quote you from a few paragraphs above:You have to look at both records and think for yourself.I think it highly unlikely that Edwards' record as a trial lawyer can be found wanting when Dick Cheney is sitting in the other pan of Justice's scales.

Was it moral and decent to foment a rumor about McCain's "black child" in SC 4 years ago?
- That was NEVER linked to the Bush campaign, and was 100% disavowed by Bush. Mighty convenient, however. I really doubt it was started from McCain's camp.

But ok, what about the CIA spy outing. We don't (yet) know who exactly at the white house told 6 reporters that an inconvenient ex-diplomat's wife was an active spy. It's a pretty treasonable action, wouldn't you agree, to give away the name of one of our spies? Anyway, we do know that it did come from the white house and also that only GOP cheerleader Robert Novak had the bad judgement to publish the name. Why is it taking the Justice Dept. sooo long to find out who dunnit?

[gec343]

Kerry is a bonified traitor in my opinion. His rantings about the war crimes in Viet Nam were damaging the safety and moral of our troops, and particularly the POW's. He is no better, if not worse than Jane Fonda.

I am disappointed in George W. Bush, as far as his service in the Texas Air National Guard, but at least he didn't "aid the enemy".

[lorazepam]

having not registered for the upcoming election, and after hearing the propaganda being spun by both sides, I have decided to become apolitical until we initiate the "none of the above" on the ballot.
I just wish I could really hear what each candidate is planning, specifics, not just the soundbite babble we hear. It seems that all we get is how bad the other side is, not what will we do to make the country better.

[Hodag]

It seems that all we get is how bad the other side is, not what will we do to make the country better.

I agree,
"I'm not nearly as bad as the other guy. I still suck, but not as much".

No wonder our young people don't care to vote. Why should we? Two crappy candidates. Bush sucks (or at least his management of this country does) and Kerry isn’t much better.
Who upsets me least?
It’s a sad state (again).
Vote Nader, or some other "independent candidate", send a message
Like it matters.......
Mark

[DarrylRi]

Originally posted by Mark11LT
I agree,
"I'm not nearly as bad as the other guy. I still suck, but not as much". Mark, I agree that the negative advertising is depressing (and that's part of the reason why politicians like it, it depresses the general turnout).

But there is also analysis of policies, which sounds pretty boring, but attempts to determine what the policies being promoted might actually do.

Here is what Newsweek's Wall Street Editor says about Bush's social safety net policies. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5916005/site/newsweek/) The bottom line is:
Bush's speech had no mention of the controversial "retirement savings accounts" and "lifetime savings accounts" that are a keystone of the "ownership society." These large, high-powered accounts would make income from investments tax-free. They would be great for people who already have plenty to invest, but not helpful for people who don't already own plenty of capital. It's all part of a long-term plan to turn the income tax into a wage tax, make inheritances and income from investments tax-free and fill the budget gap with a national sales tax or value-added tax.
This is what I mean when I say that Bush's policies wage war on the middle class.

As Gambrinus says, you have to look at both records and think for yourself.

[Cliffy777]

am I glad you guys got off on this whole tangent. At least it is somewhat of a relief from the heavily T&A direction it started in. Can we leave the drooling macho chick rating stuff to the FX Network and stick with nice wholesome chop-em-up politics from now on?
Personally I think Bush and Kerry both suck and I am mad at them both for presenting me with the worst (hardest, most difficult,) Presidential voting decision I have ever had to make. Caught a Bill Moyers look at the Conventions and he pretty much summed up what I figured anyway - Same Sh&* Different Wrapper. Both parties have everything scripted and the BIG MONEY is there at both conventions making it all happen.
Piss on the Donkey and the Elephant.

[tnk12lt]

I want to get back to the topic that started this off.

:bliss Barbara baby

[The_Veg]

I'm going to cast a write-in vote for Hunter Thompson.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by The Veg
I'm going to cast a write-in vote for Hunter Thompson.

In.

[R100RS]

Geez Louise! This here male chauvenist checking-out-the-drunk-babes has degraded into a political thread. Uggghhh!

[gambrinus]

I think the best thing would be to sit down, have a few beers and talk politics while looking at women. Hmmmm sounds like a nice night out at the strip club with the boys!!

RW