want to evaluate my riding position/ergos

[username]

fellow ergonomic enthusiasts,

no longer satisfied with merely ridng the bike, i'd like to make sure im properly seated/postured for proper ergonomics. has anyone seen an online guide for this? if i go to my local bicycle shop, they have a 'fitting' bike that i sit on and we determine stem length, seat post height, seat forward position, seat angle, etc. i want something similar for my motorcycle, preferably either in electronic form, or within a day's ride of austin.

i've been reading about ricky bars, seat jacks, and custom saddles, the thing im trying to figure out is, how do i know i need them? one good guess is that im in pain when i ride, but that doesnt happen to me. so i could argue that i dont *really* need them, but often this sort of thing builds up over years, and so i'd like to know if i could improve the ergonomics.

in summary:

1. if you have seat jacks, how did you determine you needed them and thay were the right solution.

2. same goes for ricky bars or any other bar mods.

3. same goes for lowered foot pegs.

4. anything else?

thanks.

[edge51]

wow a "fitting bike" would have saved me a lot of money over the years. I'd hate to count the seats, seat accessories, handlebars, bar backs, bar lifts ...... etc. I have purchased over 40 years of motorcycling.

I think the best you can do is to ride your bike and feel if any part of your body tightens up in your current riding position. If some thing is tight - experiment to see what allows you to relax it. Then try to find some accessory that puts your body in that position.

The idea is to set your bike up so that you are completely relaxed in your normal riding position. I like a seat that puts me slightly forward with my hamstrings carrying most of my weight, footpegs at a distance that on the balls of my feet I can easily press down to carry some weight, and handle bars right where I reach with my shoulders relaxed and my elbows bent ( no weight on bars ).

Now finding the right pieces to make that happen - that is the trick, Good Luck.

[Bobmws]

I recall seeing something on that order at the Rhinebeck National. I believe one of the seat manufacturers had it set up, but I can't recall which one it was. I definitely was not Corbin. Anyone else recall that?

[BradfordBenn]

If you find one of these, let me know cause I am debating about Bar Backs as well.

[RebeccaV]

It would be nice if someone could help with ergonomics and do measurements and geometry or whatever to tell you what is right, but ultimately it is what feels good to you while you are riding. I think that you really need to do your own trial and error to see what works for you specifically.

Seatjacks: I decided to try them because I have long legs. I've had them on for about 3000 miles and I've decided that I like them and may not have to resort to lowering the pegs on my bike.

Bar Backs: Came with my bike. The previous owner had back pain while riding and the bars put him in a more upright position which helped him. I've moved the shift and throttle levers down since I got my bike 5000 miles ago and my wrists are straighter, which is more comfortable for me.

These alterations were all made in response to something, but it sounds like you are comfortable on your bike. Maybe your egonomics are totally perfect *right now*!

[manicmechanic]

AAhhh, the sounds of one who is in search of proper function instead of form! Follow the advice found in Ron Ayres' book, Going the Extra Mile. In one section is found the note, " figure out what makes you want to get off the bike, then fix it", or words to that effect.

BG, see ya at the Dells! And anybody else, for that matter.

[username]

Originally posted by manic mechanic
AAhhh, the sounds of one who is in search of proper function instead of form! Follow the advice found in Ron Ayres' book, Going the Extra Mile. In one section is found the note, " figure out what makes you want to get off the bike, then fix it", or words to that effect.


so im supposed to kill all the people riding around cluelessly in SUVs, talking on the telephone, and shaving? and all the cops that won't let me choose the "right" speed for conditions? ;)

seriously though, i cant use that advice. for instance, right now the thing that makes me want to get off my bike is the saddle. the stock r1150r saddle is awful. so 'fix it' is obvious, but *how* to fix it is not. go read the saddle stories, and they boil down to sargent, mayer a and mayer b, sheepskin, and people arguing whether or not corbin sucks now, used to suck, or will never suck. YMMV blah blah blah. youre sitting at a computer right now, right? want to avoid wearing one of those bowling braces because youve got carpal tunnel? well then read this. (http://www.cdc.gov/od/ohs/ergonomics/compergo.htm)
i'm looking for the this for my motorcycle.

if i ride my bicycle and my ass hurts, you might say i need a new saddle. but in reality i might need better shorts, or a subtle saddle adjustment (say 'subtle saddle adjustment' five times fast.) so i could conceivably just keep going to the bike shop, and spending money on saddle after saddle, trying them all out, and getting nowhere. i dont want to do the same with the motorcycle if i can avoid it. i want to find someone/some book who knows a proper riding position, can demonstrate it to me, and help me get the fit right the first time. at the bike shop, if i tell them my ass is killing me, they first inquire as to my lifestyle and criminal record, and when finding no cause there, say, 'bring in your bike, let us see you on it.' (note, this is at a good bike shop.)

im not a big fan of trial and error whenever it's possible to develop knowledge and execute right the first time. especially when it's my time and money that's doing the executing. :)

im guessing that this knowledge is not widespread, and there are a few folks out there with little nuggets of wisdom that im going to have to assemble similar to the feedback from edge and boxergrrlie.

edit: i found this. (http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_ergonomics.htm)

[hwunger]

Hmmm, there's an untouched field, eh ?

Seriously I think we all do this by trial and error, and it is indeed costly. But after a few times you figure it out - sit-up or lean-fwd position, length of arms to handgrips, length of leg to peg. That's pretty much it, but it sure's subjective.

Fixes are barbacks/risers, peg lowers, and of course SEAT - the costliest of the three. Corbin works for some, not for all. In the end (!) it comes back to what makes you get off the bike, as someone has already posted.

Good luck !

[Cal]

Username,

You can spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars going from bicycle shop to bicycle shop looking for the proper fit.

For a "proper fit" all you have to look at is:

a. leg length ( some people call it inseam length) to the pedals. This determines the height of your frame.

b. handlebar reach ( this determines the length of the top tube)and handle bar width( this is what will allow you to breath while killing yourself trying to go as fast as you can)

c. Seat all this has to be is positioned properly in relation to the spindle of your bottom bracket. The most important adjustment is that it be level so that you don't have to either pull or push on the handle bars in order to stay on it.

In the words of a good friend of mine " Your butt is a muscle if it hurts it is because you do not use. The more miles you ride the less it will hurt. If you don't want it to hurt get a Cadillac"

For the record I used to ride between 200 to 400 miles a week between 1985 and 1997.

In my opinion motorcycle ergonomics are the same way.

First make sure your legs have the correct extension and bend so that you can ride a lot of miles without your knees hurting.

Second, you must have the proper reach to the handlebars with a slight bend at the pelvis so that your weight does not rest on your butt but on the balls of your feet. ( just like on a road bicycle)

As far as what seat is best the brand is just personal preferene. I like Corbin because they are hard. When I rode my bicycle I used a Selle Italia Turbo or a San Marco Rolls saddle they were some of the hardest.

For long distance riding I also like to wear bike shorts.

Again this is only my opinion but I can tell you this. Everybody you'll ask has a different take on this. Bicyclists and Motorcyclists are all full of opinions go to any bike shop and ask the old timers or go to a rally and ask the old timers. Everybody has an opinion.

There is no magic answer but to ride and put as many miles as you can and then make your changes one at a time in order that you do not lose your point of reference.

Now it is time for me to get off my soap box.

Cal Garcia
Sarasota, FL
1974 R90/6
1992 K75

[Cliffy777]

username. How about this angle, "If it ain't broke, doan fix it."?

oops - forgot to read yer second post.
Delete - delete - delete you ^%$*ing $#@% class action suit bringing lawyer computer thing......
sorrry

[Montana]

This summer I watched one of the Two Wheel Tuesdays shows, where one of the large rallies was being reviewed, and a vendor there wasn't really a vendor per se, he was putting a pressure pad under your butt on your bike and then mapping your pressure points, explaining it, and then you took the readout to your favorite seat builder and they would use this information.

Everyone sits differently and reaches differently, so seat comfort is only part of it. Plus, Cruiser riders aren't going to sit like sportbike riders. I'm a Cruiser rider but an active one, not a recliner.

As to reach to the bars, I like to be leaning slightly forward so I don't bounce my spine and my teeth don't clack together, such as when going over railroad tracks. No slouching!

I like the grips to place my hands not much wider than my shoulders, just as if I am sitting on an office task chair, but wide enough that I can lay in between them a bit and get out of a fierce wind or rainwater splash.

I like my pegs to place my feet well in front of my hips, vertically, but still behind my knees so I can still lift my butt of the seat when going over railroad tracks. This is a holdover from horseback riding.

I like my hands to be just below my elbows, horizontally, so the blood flows, but not so far down and forward that I have any real weight on my wrists. I reach out and slightly down, but can lift my hands off or let up on them for rough terrain, like when going over railroad tracks.

Guess I didn't realize how often I have to go over railroad tracks!

[username]

great info montana, thank you.

btw, do you live in a rail yard? :D

[JimVonBaden1]

If you are really looking for a riding position that works, and is lauded by hundreds, try Master Yoda's Riding Position. (http://www.ruffoweb.com/Phil/BMW/Master_Yodas_Riding_Position.pdf)

I have used it for the last 5000 miles and it works very well not only for comfort, but for increasing my ability to ride competantly, quickly and for a long time.

Jim:brow

[username]

jim thanks, that's an informative article.

it's hard as hell to read though, between all the CAPS on words THAT don't seem to need to BE emphasized, the paretheticals (i mean this guy really nests a lot of thoughts (and some of them aren't really thoughts) inside his paragraphs,) and the the "use" of quotation "marks" and bold type that doesn't need to be bold.

of course, i don't use caps at all and seldom use apostrophes, so maybe im not one to comment... :D

[JimVonBaden1]

Originally posted by username
jim thanks, that's an informative article.

it's hard as hell to read though, between all the CAPS on words THAT don't seem to need to BE emphasized, the paretheticals (i mean this guy really nests a lot of thoughts (and some of them aren't really thoughts) inside his paragraphs,) and the the "use" of quotation "marks" and bold type that doesn't need to be bold.

of course, i don't use caps at all and seldom use apostrophes, so maybe im not one to comment... :D

Two ends of the spectrum, but good information, and it really works!

Jim:brow

[Montana]

Yes, that is an interesting albeit pain-in-the-eyes article. I learned in horseback riding and from physical therapy that the thigh muscles are the strongest so use them first. After reading that article I guess I now understand why so many cruiser riders look at me in wonder when they see the clear film protector patch on my tank. Maybe this is the sign of a rite of passage: you can tell how a bike is ridden by the presence or absence of a tank patch.