Disconcerting - Steering head issue

[BubbaZanetti]

Since i purchased my airhead a month and a half ago, i thought the front end felt a little "loose". It almost felt like the bars were moving forward a bit with each hard stop. Well, in fact, they are, but I just saw it happen for the first time today. The upper and lower triple clamps are moving on the steering head and the acorn nut on the top seems quite loose. I checked it against a GSPD which is parked next to me in my garage and sure enough, that bike showed no gaps.

Here's what i mean:

http://bubbazanetti.smugmug.com/photos/551201720_uBpTa-M.jpg

you can see, even in this cruddy photo, a gap between the acorn nut and the upper triple. the triple is actually sliding around a bit in there. i only noticed it today cause i was looking for it.

here is the head, the bottom is also not snug against the steering head:

http://bubbazanetti.smugmug.com/photos/551201853_GkkQd-L.jpg


i've read a bit into adjusting the pre-load on these bearings and assuming mine are not killed from being too loose, i should only need to un-clamp the lower pinch bolts on the forks, adjust then tighten everything up properly, correct?


this is what happens when you go from a new to old bike and just make the assumption that it's that way cause it's old.:scratch

[20774]

You'll need to find some way to react the torquing load you put in to tighten the bearings. You don't want to swing the steering over to one of the stops and then crank on it. You can twist things that way. Snowbum has a picture of a bar-setup that can be used to react the loads. Or maybe use your handlebars... Be sure your tank is in the other room when you do this!!

[BubbaZanetti]

You'll need to find some way to react the torquing load you put in to tighten the bearings. You don't want to swing the steering over to one of the stops and then crank on it. You can twist things that way. Snowbum has a picture of a bar-setup that can be used to react the loads. Or maybe use your handlebars... Be sure your tank is in the other room when you do this!!

i know i've been nothing but a non-stop question factory lately, but i promise, i'll get this thing sorted soon enough,hahah

the snowbum "torque bar" thing had me a bit confused. i understood the principle of not twisting the tubes and introducing stiction to the front end, but what i didn't get was that it was intended to keep the front end off the stops, i thought it was to keep from somehow twisting the triples (not even sure how you'd do that). is the adjuster for the pre-load under that acorn nut? also, do i have to undo the caps on the top of the forks. i didn't really see the need?

[20774]

The way I see it, you want to somehow grab the top triple tree only in order to react the loads...that way, no other part of the front fork system is affected. All you're doing is pulling the lower yoke up towards the top plate. As long as the lower pinch bolts are loose, then the lower yoke will slide as necessary up the tube. I also don't seen any need to remove the top nuts on each tube.

You'll need to take off the acorn nut to get access to the thin nut which is used to change the preload. Then put the acorn nut back on and check your preload. You may have to go back and forth a few times.

[Oldhway]

this is what happens when you go from a new to old bike and just make the assumption that it's that way cause it's old.:scratch


Derek, I feel your pain.

Since I bougth my Rt (which appeared in great condition) I have steadily been fixing things.

My front end felt terrible. First I tightened up the brace at the fender and the triple clamps. Small improvement. Then I snugged up the head bearing. Small imrovement but the front end was pogoing and wallowing and I had no confidence in the bike in corners. So I decided to do fork oil. The previous owner told me he had just done it but I figured I would take a look. Turns out when he changed the oil, he double filled the left side and nothing in the right. Filled both sides with the correct amount of 10 weight. Ahhh, much better (lucky I wasn't killed).

Did the valves. Found a stripped adjuster bolt.

Changed the Air filter. Removed 4 acorns from the airbox (PO told me it was stored in a heated garage, squirrels must live well in those parts).

Synched and adjusted the carbs...Let's just not even go there.

Then yesterday morning, starts ok but stalls whenever I let the clutch out. finally get going but thought it might be low on gas so I top up the tank. It only took half a tank so I figured I just rushed the warm up. Ran great and I stopped at the Post Office to get the mail for the shop on the way in. Come out to start it and turns over no spark or dash lights. I was not in my happy place :cry .

So I broke down and brought it (in the back of a truck :blush) to a guy in the area who knows airheads. Handed him the key and my wallet, told him I'm going to Tennessee in July so go through it all and make it right. Ouch.

Moral of the story, no matter how pretty a used bike is on the outside, be prepared to give it some mechanical :heart love (and $$$)before you can trust it.

It's enough to drive you to :bottle

[BubbaZanetti]

Derek, I feel your pain.


It's enough to drive you to :bottle

frankly, the last thing i need for that is a motorcycle

BUT

i was having a conversation with a friend the other night, he'd just bought his first bike with fuel injection (triumph chopper dude). i said to him "isn't it kinda nice to have a bike that just starts and runs the same every time you push that button.

either way:bikes

[mymindsok]

I jst know that youwon't want to hear this but you really need to drop the front end and take a look at the steering head bearings and the races.

Why?

1) Because most owners never bother servicing/adjusting these important bearings (!).

2) If the top nut and the adjuster are both loose, you can bet with 90% accuracy, that the races have been damaged by being pounded.

3) I have never purchased a used Airhead that didnt need new SH bearings and races and they usually need swing arm bearings as well.

4) And most importantly: It's an important safety issue. :stick In order for you to ride safely, your forks, steering bearings, brakes and shocks all need to be up to snuff and working properly. Neglecting these systems can get you hurt or killed. Sorry, but thats the reality of the issue. When youre rolling 65mph on your bike, your life is literally in your hands.

I like to grease my bearings annually. That may seem like overkill but if your SH bearings are kept lubed and correctly adjusted, they'll last a long, long time and your bike will be a pleasure to ride.

Now.... Get out your shop manual and get to work!

[BubbaZanetti]

yeah, that was what i was a bit worried about (another sorta big job). i'm hoping for the best as the bike has low mileage and i'm almost positive the previous owner didn't ride the bike like this for very long, might be a relatively recent occurrence. hoping the bearings/races are serviceable.

[jforgo]

frankly, the last thing i need for that is a motorcycle

BUT

i was having a conversation with a friend the other night, he'd just bought his first bike with fuel injection (triumph chopper dude). i said to him "isn't it kinda nice to have a bike that just starts and runs the same every time you push that button.

either way:bikes

The steering heads seem always to be neglected. The injection bike guys often give a deer in headlights look when they complain of loosey-goosey front ends and you ask if they checked this. Since there is no idiot light/computer message about the steering heads, the modern bikes will likely wind up even more neglected in this area.
Take the caps off when you are doing the adjustment, so that you can easily run the sliders up and down. Now is a good time to add fork brace, if you do not have one. Once the triples/bearing is adjusted correctly, you can feel the alignment on the sliders pretty well as you work your way down. it will probably feel like a new bike when you are done...

[vanzen]

I jst know that youwon't want to hear this but you really need to drop the front end and take a look at the steering head bearings and the races.

Why?

1) Because most owners never bother servicing/adjusting these important bearings (!).

2) If the top nut and the adjuster are both loose, you can bet with 90% accuracy, that the races have been damaged by being pounded.

3) I have never purchased a used Airhead that didnt need new SH bearings and races and they usually need swing arm bearings as well.

4) And most importantly: It's an important safety issue. :stick In order for you to ride safely, your forks, steering bearings, brakes and shocks all need to be up to snuff and working properly. Neglecting these systems can get you hurt or killed. Sorry, but thats the reality of the issue. When youre rolling 65mph on your bike, your life is literally in your hands.

I like to grease my bearings annually. That may seem like overkill but if your SH bearings are kept lubed and correctly adjusted, they'll last a long, long time and your bike will be a pleasure to ride.

Now.... Get out your shop manual and get to work!

good point, mymindsok –

EVERY "NEW 2 U OLD BIKE" NEEDS TO HAVE A "MAJOR INSPECTION"
(as prescribed in the repair manual)
whether you run it down to the dealer, or do it yourself ...
but do this before accumulating miles !
very likely you will "discover" some results of neglect, ignorance, ... that will want attention.

The peace of mind in knowing that the bike good to go, SAFE to ride ... is priceless –
it's your life and limb that is at risk !
... and before throwing after-market GOODIES and EXTRA $$$$ at the bike – get it up to stock/snuff !

[Oldhway]

frankly, the last thing i need for that is a motorcycle

BUT

i was having a conversation with a friend the other night, he'd just bought his first bike with fuel injection (triumph chopper dude). i said to him "isn't it kinda nice to have a bike that just starts and runs the same every time you push that button.

either way:bikes

San Jose BMW sells a nice Billet upper triple clamp to replace the stamped steel stock one. Also a good time for progressive fork springs.

Did I mnetion the $$$:heart $$$ a used bike takes to make it your own?

I sometimes wish I had kept the Wee Strom.

[BubbaZanetti]

San Jose BMW sells a nice Billet upper triple clamp to replace the stamped steel stock one. Also a good time for progressive fork springs.

Did I mnetion the $$$:heart $$$ a used bike takes to make it your own?

I sometimes wish I had kept the Wee Strom.

Got wilbers progressives in there

Got a telefix fork brace

i'm sure crapiness i've been getting in the handling is 100 percent absolutely definitely a result of this looseness at the head.

[jforgo]

San Jose BMW sells a nice Billet upper triple clamp to replace the stamped steel stock one. Also a good time for progressive fork springs.

Did I mnetion the $$$:heart $$$ a used bike takes to make it your own?

I sometimes wish I had kept the Wee Strom.


The ST already has the beefed up R65 upper triple

[Polarbear]

I'm a bike mechanic and have always done my service, all of it. The steering heads and swing arm bearings will go "forever" with GOOD service intervals and MOST owners forget this and its why so many bikes have to have them replaced. The S heads should be at least checked every year and the S arms too, even more often as the back of every bike takes the bulk of the load...This should be taught to all owners, as its an easy check for BMWs, which are generally so light:). Randy:thumb :usa

[vanzen]

Inspection, greasing, & adjustment of bearings is a part of regular maintenance.
The maintenance interval necessary will based upon miles ridden.

Because the load imposed on the SA bearing is concentrated on a small portion of it's diameter due to limited movement,
and the fact that these bearings are often neglected,
the race can develop "flat spots".
This can be felt as the SA is moved through it's normal range of motion.

Same can be said about steering stem bearings.
If movement is not completely "smooth & easy" – time to dig in.

Steering head bearings, wheel bearings, and swing-arm bearings are too often neglected by owners of older MCs –
something to be aware of when buying a used BMW.

[Polarbear]

An example here! My R100/7 since new by me, still has the original bearings at both ends:). 350000 miles now, so they will go a long time, but I've been an exception with my toys:). They get regular, full time attention for 32 years...Randy:thumb

[StevesGarage]

So which is worse, a previous owner (po) who neglects maintenance or one who does it wrong?

I've bought 4 used bikes in the last 2 years or so. The things that I have seen! To maintain the thread, ALL of them have needed the steering head bearings adjusted.

One bike was cosmetically a 9, but mechanically a 6. One fork was a little low, the other had only a teaspoon of oil in it. However, this one did have a greased swingarm.

Another bike had a dry rear brake lever pivot. No, not even hardened grease here. Bad sign. This bike is in the works, so no idea on the swingarm bearings yet. Driveshaft was dry. Pulled the gearbox drain and some water came out…

Changed oil on another bike, and inspected the filter channel. (I like to soak up the last of the dirty oil in there.) Saw an old o-ring way in the back, left over from the days when they weren’t attached to the filter. The po had just put the new style filter in and made it fit.

As the earlier post says, always do a major inspection on a new old bike. You don't even need the repair manual. The owner's manual covers all of this stuff
(at least for the older bikes) .

[AnnapolisAirhead]

So which is worse, a previous owner (po) who neglects maintenance or one who does it wrong?

The answer to this question falls into two buckets, IMO.

1.) After you've purchased the bike (making at least one PO), you can do nothing about what the PO did. Its more of a historical reference at best if they maintained a maintenance schdule; or left to your own methodical assessment skills.

2.) You can only change thing going forward. Persumably, you've done some assessment of the PO maintenance that brought you to the decision to buy the bike in the first place. This would (or should) include understanding areas that you simply can not physically inspect without dismantling the bike and have made your offer accordingly.

I think a lot of well-intended PO's do the regular "easy" maintenance (oil, filter, etc.) to a degree, but never as much as an enthusiast (swingarm greasing, spline lubes, FD and Shaft fluid, steeringhead bearings, wheel bearings, etc), so its better to assume nothing has been done. My approach is that, since these bikes are no longer made and are relatively inexpensive pleasure--when in doubt, I replace with OEM or better widgets. That brings me peace-of-mind and makes me a happy camper. :dance

[Oldhway]

This is becoming a great what to watch for on a used bike thread as well as answering Bubba's questions.

Based on both our experiences Bubba, it's a wonder neither of us got tossed on our nut.

[BubbaZanetti]

Based on both our experiences Bubba, it's a wonder neither of us got tossed on our nut.

haha, yeah, i'm not sure what the deal is. i bought this bike off a friend, low mileage bike that he took good care of. said he'd readjusted the steering head bearings a year or two ago, but i think the bike has only about 7K miles in the past five years on it, so it may have just loosened enough to not be noticeable and my knocking it around pot-holed nyc the past 2 months has really loosened it up. i'm lucky though, stopped by last night to talk to the owner of where i keep the bike and i took another look at it, hand tight, that's how loose it was.

[vanzen]

Well, don't be too rough on the P.O.
The instructions in the BMW manual (or Clymer, and etc) are vague at best –
no torque spec or specific "by the number instructions" to assure that the bearings are properly loaded are given.
(There IS a torque spec for the cap nut)

"set the bearings to zero play", and
"If the steering head bearings are correctly adjusted,
the handlebars should just fall round to the right lock position
when the motorcycle is on the stand."

Scratch your head and make some sense of THAT !
It's all the BMW BOOK says on the subject !
Adjusting steering head bearings correctly becomes a matter of "feel" and experience.

All this a way of saying, that even if an owner attempts to adjust these bearings,
the job may not have been done correctly.
"Zero play" is not often accomplished on the first attempt –
think about the bike sitting on the center-stand, forks & wheel dangling in the air ...
If the handling characteristics resulting from over tightened or slightly loose bearings
are unknown, the owner rides on – oblivious.

[tghsmith]

In the 80s bmw tried to make a tool for measuring the adjustment of the head bearings, a month or two later the word came out that the tool was a nice paper-weight.... (we had decided that at the first attempt at use) word was to adjust bearings for nil play. to get the best feel for an adjustment is when the fork tubes and upper plate(clamp) are removed , just the stem,lower triptree,dust covers, bearings and adjusting nut in place. never adjust the head when its very cold or hot, if you haved warmed the lower bearing to get on the stem and or warmed the frame to get the races in easily(had the races iin the freezer) take a good long lunch or let everything set overnight before doing the adjustments.....

[BubbaZanetti]

well, "adjusted" everything today.

my god were the fork tube caps on TIGHT

after about an hour of trying to get them off first with an adjustable wrench, then with properly sized socket both times using some method of "anti-torque bar" i got frustrated. I went upstairs and got the 4ft aluminum pipe, slid it over the wrench and gave it a quick thud with my hand, i'm sorry to say, ignoring a bit, the whole anti-torque thing. after getting the top triple clamp off, i was relieved to see that the bearing pre-load adjuster had not moved and the bearings seemed to be happily in place (so much so a light rap with a hammer and a block of wood on top of the steering stem would not dislodge the lower triple). the grease looked good and fairly recent so i buttoned it all back up and adjusted the pre-load so that it matched the "feel" description in some of the tech articles i reviewed. took it out for 5 or 10 minutes, no noticeable slow speed weave or wobble and things definitely felt much better. the garage owner assumed that the the bearings were frozen and told me next time i took it apart he had some "special stuff" since the garage mostly specializes in setting up vintage racers and flat track bikes.


also got my cracked bag mount welded, so all-in-all a pretty decent day.:thumb

[RandyB]

Evidently this is an epidemic. I just serviced mine because of a low speed weave. I felt a notch which caused momentary $$ anxiety.

I was able to spin the adjustment nut off with my fingers! Dried grease. Thankfully nothing wrong with the bearings. One of the easier services. Clutch transplant next week.

Don't neglect this. Thanks for the motivation Derek.

[crazydrummerdude]

I've been finding that the more dreaded service/repairs to these bikes really are nothing to be afraid of. I read all the hype a million times over, and was scared to replace my bearings/races.

I didn't even have all the "proper" tools, and got the job done on my R90 in a relatively short while. Then, when I forgot a seal for the lower bearing, I stripped it down and had it back together in like 20 minutes.

So, don't fear if you find out you have to dig in deeper soon. It's actually really easy.

[vanzen]

...I didn't even have all the "proper" tools, and got the job done on my R90 in a relatively short while...

So what was your method to remove the bearing races ?

[crazydrummerdude]

So what was your method to remove the bearing races ?

I used.. I guess you could call it a crowbar. It's not really, though. Carefully tap it under the race, and push gently... and they popped out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/aretnap69/bmw_r90/20081224041.jpg

[mmmalmberg]

I made a simple tool much like your "crowbar", a piece of 5/8 steel rod, the end of which I forged and ground into a rounded chisel end, just right for catching the tiny bit of bearing that protrudes past the steering tube interior. I tap my way carefully around the edge bit by bit in order to not wedge the bearing at all into it's seat. Done maybe four jobs with it, no problem...

What's always more difficult for me is getting the bearings fully seated in the frame. No matter how long I freeze them, I sometimes feel like they lossen a bit after riding a week or so, and need a bit of retightening. I use the old outer bearing race to press or tap in the new bearing. Sometimes a bit sketch... Maybe I just need to prep the frame a little more...?