Starter, alternator, ign switch or relay going out?

[nh7robmw]

Decided to take the wife for a nice ride down to South Point this afternoon.

Got as far as the gas station 5 miles from home where I'd just filled the tank.

Hit the starter button---nada. No turning over or any response.

Headlight, horn, ABS light and turn signals would work but no gear indicator or auxiliary lights.

Guy had jumper cables in his truck next to me and we tried jumping it to no avail.

Finally pushed it up a little rise on the side of the parking lot and compression started it coasting down hill.

Now the ABS light on the left side stays on after blinking/pushing it on after starting and so does the alternator (?) warning light on the right side of the instrument panel (solid red next to what looks like a symbol for a battery). The gear indicator is on and off intermittently but now mostly off again.

The speedo is now dead and the tachometer registers about a third of the actual RPM.

Anyway, we managed to ride it back home this way and I parked it in our carport which has a nice solid and flat concrete floor so I can begin working on it tomorrow (Thursday).

Between now and then, can someone help me out with what the problem might be? I suspect the starter motor which I plan to pull out and clean as the first item of business. Hope I'm on the right track.

Btw, is there anything besides brake cleaner that I could use for this? Acetone or rubbing alcohol or Simple Green? Will have to make a separate trip to town to get brake cleaner is why I ask.

This '94 K75S has 22,000 miles on it and reading the IBMWR tech pages that sounds about the right mileage for a starter to get good and dirty. Or perhaps it's the alternator brushes or something related?

This is the very first time this has happened. Until a brief ride two days ago (55 miles RT) I haven't ridden the bike in 6 weeks with all the rain and flooding around us much of the time---perhaps this might be a contributing factor, maybe not.

Anyway, I'm all ears and hoping for an easy fix. :ear

Probably not a bad idea to clean the starter motor anyway and I have both Clymer and Haynes to help me through this as well.

Paul or Don to the white courtesy phone (again), please!:) Help!

[Bobmws]

It does sound like the starter/ground problem. I've used fine (600 grit) sand paper to clean the starter in the past with no ill effects. Be sure to mark both end of the starter and the case for proper alignment on reassembly. I would also pull the tank and clean the lugs and the ground bolt on the frame backbone.
If the bike has spent it's time in Hawaii the salt air may have added to the corrosion factor. You may want to check the main ground and positive battery cables.

[deilenberger]

You have checked the fuses right? (First order of business with electrical problems.) It won't hurt to clean the starter - and it often is the cause of wacky electrical faults on early K's.. but - since your headlight is working, I'm making a WAG that the load-shed relay is also working (at least not shedding the loads.)

Does anything happen (lights, clicks, whatever) when you press the start button?

More info needed..

[eaganj346]

Make sure your battery has enough cranking amperage. Take it to an auto parts store and have it tested.

I had the same symptoms last year on my K75 and it was a bad battery. It might have the volts to light the lights (for a day or so), but if the cranking amps are down because of a bad cell, it won't start.

I pulled the starter, cleaned it with 'Electronic parts cleaner' from Murray's Auto, it made no difference, but it needed cleaning anyway.

HTH,
John

[nh7robmw]

You have checked the fuses right? (First order of business with electrical problems.) It won't hurt to clean the starter - and it often is the cause of wacky electrical faults on early K's.. but - since your headlight is working, I'm making a WAG that the load-shed relay is also working (at least not shedding the loads.)

Does anything happen (lights, clicks, whatever) when you press the start button?

More info needed..

I actually didn't check the fuses but will do that now.

Shortly before I went on the ride I loosened a frame bolt where I had a long wire attached that I had used to reset the ABS brain with---I removed the wire and tightened it back up. But maybe in doing so I upset the ground connection. I will check all the ground and battery connections now also.

The battery is fairly new but a bit smaller than stock that I purchased at WalMart---a sealed AGM that is 19ah. Before I went on my 55 mile ride several days ago I charged it up for 2 hours before I hit the starter as it had been sutting for 6 weeks prior to that.

Yesterday I didn't check the battery voltage before I left thinking that it was probably OK after my ride the other day; apparently not.

I'm going outside to pull the battery and starter and check all the points I mentioned above. We have to go to town tomorrow on another matter so I can pick up some brake cleaner anyway.

Will keep you posted and thanks for your responses thus far.

[nh7robmw]

PS: When I hit the starter button absolutely nothing happens, not even a click.

[nh7robmw]

The first fuse was blown (instrument panel lights). Replaced with good 7.5a fuse and they work again.

The clutch interlock switch may be at fault,; now I can start the bike when I pull the clutch lever in, but not when the clutch is out.

The gear position indicator is still dead.

My fog lights work fine but my driving lights do not come on with the high beams as thery should. I suspect they're blown (again) due to low voltage.

Now trying to figure out how I can get the clutch interlock switch out so I can test it or clean it, same with the gear indicator switch.

Staying tuned in case anyone here has any further ideas.

[98lee]

The clutch interlock switch may be at fault,; now I can start the bike when I pull the clutch lever in, but not when the clutch is out.

That's how it's supposed to work. Clutch in - start. Clutch not in - no start (unless it's in neutral).


The gear position indicator is still dead.

This is the problem. The bike can't tell it's in neutral if the gear position indicator is not working.


Now trying to figure out how I can get the clutch interlock switch out so I can test it or clean it, same with the gear indicator switch.

From the multiple problems that you have, it sounds like a voltage or a ground problem. Could be your alternator is not charging. (Bad brushes/regulator)

Forget the clutch switch. Put a LOAD TESTED FULLY CHARGED battery in the thing and then check ALL the fuses. Make sure when the bike is running you have MORE than 12.5 volts at the battery. Then troubleshoot the gear indicator circuit.


:dance :dance :dance

[swbell]

When i first got my K100LT '91, i bought a new battery. Two or three months later I was having problems w/ the ABS going out and then it not starting at all. I did exactly what you're doing, cleaned the starter, charged the batter and went for a ride. A few miles down the road the ABS light came on. Stopped at subway for lunch and couldn't get it started again. I ended up buying a lawn mower battery from a parts store around the corner and was able to get home. Used the lawn mower battery for the rest of the season and into the next, didn't trust that battery and bought a new one before a longer trip that I had planned.

Bottom line: even a newer battery can crap out on you.

I was also blowing a fuse early on b/c the heated hand grips had a short in them. I cut these wires so not to blow that fuse again. When the fuse was blown, i didn't have gear indicator, speedo or odometer.

When taking the starter apart I did end up borrowing an impact wrench (screw driver) to get the two long screws to move after soaking them in some liquid wrench or something like that.

[nh7robmw]

Thanks, Lee, I think the low voltage and perhaps a sticky clutch switch or disengagement of the gear indicator somehow conspired to give me the trouble I was having.

Amazingly I managed to start the bike with the clutch lever pulled in. It musn't have been in neutral at the time or maybe it was but the bike didn't know it because the gear indicator was still out. (It's working fine now).

I rode the bike around some which charged the battery a bit. I measured 12.75 volts after I got off and parked the bike. While I suspected the alternator I don't think it's at fault---it seems to be charging OK. I checked the voltage with the motor running and it was 13.63 IIRC.

Now the only negative result of all of this was two more blown H7 bulbs in my FF50 driving lights. I had just replaced them two months ago when I was having problems with my original Yuasa stock battery which was going south---which is why I installed the WalMart 19ah AGM.

From now on I will closely monitor the battery voltage and charge it up before each ride if necessary. I think the battery is OK but not really sufficient for my bike---but I'm not about to spend more on another one anytime soon. As long as I can charge and ride that will be fine for now.

Thanks again for your responses, guys. I'll get some new H7 Sylvanias tomorrow and hopefully live happily ever ever after:)