R1150GS Clutch Problems- Advice?

[beemer]

Hello,

I'm the used-to-be proud owner of an '04 R1150 GS Adventure.. That was until the other night, at just under 4000 miles, I was driving it home on the highway and all of a sudden it just started revving as if the clutch died mid-ride.

I called up BMW Roadside assistance to tow the bike to the local dealer where I bought it, and they basically said the clutch is burnt, the oil is low, low compression in one cylinder, needs a valve adjustment, etc, etc. This is after I had the last service done at 6xx miles at their dealership. I ask, naively, so what's covered under warranty? And they tell me nothing.

Does this seem incredulous or am I used to more robust vehicles? I drive this bike like a grandma relative to the japanese and italian bikes I've owned in the past, and have never had a clutch fail like this. Is this just a bad design in the bike, or did I get a lemon, or what?

Which brings me to my next question.. Should I just buy one of the CD-Rom based copies of the BMW service manual off ebay or get another brand? Also, what is a good source for clutch parts? I don't feel too inclined to give the local dealership any more business if this is the support I get. I told them I'd be by with the pickup to grab it.

Any help is appreciated, and as a rule, flames and trolls will be ignored.

Take care!

[kbasa]

Who's your local dealer? This sounds like a warranty issue to me.

If you don't get satisfaction from them, escalate to regional BMW.

[Ghostryder]

I would have to agree with KBasa there. I have a 1200 GS just at 3000 and the clutch went. I limped it into the dealer and he told me the clutch WAS covered. As far as the other things that you mention I would think they should be covered. If you brought the bike to the same dealer for the 600 mile, they should have adjusted the valves, and if they need readjustment this soon it sounds like they didnt do a good job in the first place.
Did they give you a reason why the clutch, and the problem with the compression would not be covered? I would ask why not and then If you dont like there response, which seems highly likely, go to regional BMW. I would not take the bike out of there though, I would leave it there in case an issue comes up about doing your own work, and thus voiding your warranty, or something silly like that.
Did you buy the bike new from the dealer? Did you look over your owners manual about what is covered? Do you hae your reciept from the 600 mile service, and what they did when it was there?
Good luck......let us know what happens.

[beemer]

My local dealer is Greater Boston Motorsports of Arlington Massachusetts, aka BMW of Cambridge.

I have had a bad experience in the past (about 15 or so years ago) and steered clear of the dealership up until on a whim I went in and bought this GS. Ooops. Should have listened to my gut, but I heard they were under new ownership.

I am planning on going to pick up the bike today. I will try to talk to the service manager, but if that doesn't go too well, I am going to try talking to a salesperson at Max BMW in NH who was very pleasant to deal with in the past. (Fred)

They say the bike "had high #s on leakdown test" and "low compression", "clutch smoked", "no motronic faults", "battery low", and "it would not start but tech got running, motor did not sound too bad". It's amazing to me, since the bike never ran bad, never had a starting problem, never smoked or anything except maybe a little puff on startup. I would think that low compression and oil would be indicative of bad rings or valve seals, or something that one would think would be covered under warranty..

I really feel let down by BMW on this one. Does anyone have any regional contacts at BMW NA who might be helpful? I am a longtime BMW CCA member and multi-bmw family, but I'm afraid their dealer network is going to drive me away from a product I've grown to love.

Anyone have any good relationships with local BMW service depts who might be able to share some insight?

Thanks for your responses, guys. I'll let you know what happens.

(and a case of beer for anyone that wants to help with the clutch.. hehe)

[beemer]

OK, one thing to add:

I called the dealership to see if the bike was ready for me to pick up at lunch. The salesperson that handled the call at the dealership said the paperwork wasn't finished, and that he would go check on the bike to make sure it was ready. I explained that I had a faxed copy of the repair order in hand, and he said it should be ready and I could come get it. I mentioned offhand that I was going to take it to another dealer and contact BMW NA for resolution.

About 15 minutes later, as I was about to spend my lunch hour picking up the bike, the salesperson called back and explained that he had talked to the service manager. (Ollie Virta I think, but I don't have the correct spelling) He said Mr. Virta would review the issue and get back to me tomorrow, and that he sounded suprised that I was told nothing would be covered under warranty.

I await their response, but at least it is sounding better. Hopefully the service manager will make things right.

Hopefully it will happen before too many good riding days pass..

Thanks again for reading and your advice!

[Ghostryder]

That sounds better. I hope that everything works out. :clap :clap

[kbasa]

Originally posted by beemer
My local dealer is Greater Boston Motorsports of Arlington Massachusetts, aka BMW of Cambridge.

I have had a bad experience in the past (about 15 or so years ago) and steered clear of the dealership up until on a whim I went in and bought this GS. Ooops. Should have listened to my gut, but I heard they were under new ownership.

I am planning on going to pick up the bike today. I will try to talk to the service manager, but if that doesn't go too well, I am going to try talking to a salesperson at Max BMW in NH who was very pleasant to deal with in the past. (Fred)

They say the bike "had high #s on leakdown test" and "low compression", "clutch smoked", "no motronic faults", "battery low", and "it would not start but tech got running, motor did not sound too bad". It's amazing to me, since the bike never ran bad, never had a starting problem, never smoked or anything except maybe a little puff on startup. I would think that low compression and oil would be indicative of bad rings or valve seals, or something that one would think would be covered under warranty..

I really feel let down by BMW on this one. Does anyone have any regional contacts at BMW NA who might be helpful? I am a longtime BMW CCA member and multi-bmw family, but I'm afraid their dealer network is going to drive me away from a product I've grown to love.

Anyone have any good relationships with local BMW service depts who might be able to share some insight?

Thanks for your responses, guys. I'll let you know what happens.

(and a case of beer for anyone that wants to help with the clutch.. hehe)

Oh gads. GBM sucks. If you don't get results, take it to Max. He'll treat you right. He's got the mechanics that used to work at Freeman's (they know their stuff) and Fred is a great guy. Tell him I said HI!

I think you've been let down by the dealer, not BMW NA.

[beemer]

Hi,

Just got a message back from Eric in the service department at GBM.

I was told they talked to BMW and BMW said that I have to assume liability for 1.5 hours of diagnostics (in addition to the 1 hour labor rate for initial inspection) for them to determine whether the clutch repair would be fixed under warranty or not.

I had my 600 mile service done at this same dealership, including oil change, and they now say the compression is so bad that they suspect bad rings or valve seals and the oil is a quart down. The bike has approx 4000 miles, and was bought new there.

I told them I'd call them back and let them know whether or not I was willing to assume the labor costs without a guarantee of repair. At this point I feel I am being held responsible for a manufacturer's mistakes. I realize every brand has their lemons, but most will try to make things right in the end.

What do you think? Should I call Max first for advice?

[Ghostryder]

If I were you I would be on the phone to Max. I would tell him what your dealer said, and see what he has to say. It seems to me that the dealer should have no problem eating 2.5 hours total of labor cost, seeing as how you purchased the bike there. Customer retention is a lot cheaper than attracting new ones.
I would call the dealer and explain that you feel that it is through NO fault of your own that there is mechanical problems with a NEW product and that you followed the recomended guidelines for break in. I would also tell him that you feel in no way responsible, or obligated to pay for a problem that should not have occured in the first place.
If the dealer does not see it your way, well at least you have another dealer that can hopefully be of assistance. One of them should see the value in a loyal customer. Any dealer will tell you that there is little money made in selling the product, most of the money comes from service, and aftermarket sales.
At least you are lucky enough to have another daler in the area to work with. Once again GOOD LUCK!!!!!!! :banghead

[beemer]

Next update..

I talked to Fred at MaxBMW and he advised me to talk to Butch, their service adviser. Butch was very helpful and insightful and offered to take care of things for me but with the warning that the clutch still might not be covered. I also talked to BMW directly, but via a customer service rep who was quite disinterested in my issue but assured me he would "look into it" and get back to me.

I saw myself as left with three options:
1-let GBM extort another 1.5 hours of labor costs from me and MAYBE the repair will be covered
2-pick it up, pay the first hour of labor, drive an hour to NH, pay any associated inspection costs to Max and see if it'll be covered
3- pick it up, change the clutch, put it on ebay

I just find it absolutely astonishing. I authorized the inspection and asked for explicit documentation of their findings, just in case push comes to shove.

And yes KBasa, you're right, I have been let down by the dealer. My only complaint with BMW themselves is that I've become accustomed to having my BMWs just "work" when I buy them new. My eldest is over 20 years old, my newest is under a year. For a not even year old bike to have so many problems makes me question their quality. I bought BMW because their automobiles were wonderfully engineered and a pleasure to drive, I had hoped their bikes would be the same.

Maybe I'll get lucky and someone from BMW reads these forums.. :)

[edge51]

Ok - I am officially puzzled. How is there any question that this is warranty item? Does BMW consider a blown clutch at 4000 miles a wear item ? Are they claiming that you abused the clutch in some manner?

I may be dumb but it seems to me that a clutch failure at 4000 miles should automatically be covered unless they can prove somehow that you horribly abused it. The burden of proof would rest on BMW.

Can someone explain to me what possible rationale they have for even questioning coverage ?

[beemer]

I think that is it- they want to open it up to determine whether the failure was caused by abuse or some sort of manufacturing defect. He said that "for all we know you could be riding with the clutch half in the whole time."

I gave the service guy a brake pad analogy, another part that is considered a consumable. If I bought a brand new car, and 4000 miles into it, the caliper was grinding into the rotor on one wheel, did I cause the failure? Would that be covered? It seemed to fall on deaf ears. The dealership doesn't seem to have any respect for the customer if the wallet isn't out and open and leaking cash.

The funny thing is, they totally avoid the compression issue. That is not consumable part related, yet they totally avoid the issue.

BMW NA hasn't returned my calls and I'm still waiting to hear back from the dealer.

I agree with you 100% edge51. I am dumbfounded that they are not standing behind their product. I need to go send my warranty fine print to my lawyer to comb through.

[bmwmick]

beemer,
There have been a number of hydraulic slave cylinder failures on the r1150GS's and the K1200LT's. The slave cylinder leaks a little brake fluid on your clutch disc and it starts slipping badly.
If they open it up and find ANY type of oil or brake fluid in the clutch area it SHOULD be all covered under warranty. If, however, they find no leakage and the clutch disc is simply 'toasted' from slipping, you may be in for big $$ repairs on your dime.
In either case, I think I'd want to be there to actually see the insides and take pictures of the oil/brake fluid contamination.
The low compression on one cylinder should be a slam dunk warranty issue. Unless you ran it with no oil, overheated it or somehow abused it (which I assume is a stupid scenario). How often did you check the oil level? I find it hard to believe it is a quart low if you checked it regularly. A quart low would be well below the oil sight glass.

just some thoughts to ponder......

Mick

[beemer]

Hi.. just checking in with the latest installment..

I got a call from Eric in service at GBM today at lunch. He called to report that they had a chance to tear down the bike and inspect the clutch. He said that "it appears that the slave cylinder has failed and that caused the clutch to fail, but we need to run it by BMW to authorize the repairs."

Although he didn't say it with certainty, he sounded hopeful enough for me to forget to ask him about the compression issue. :) He also invited me to come in and take a look at the bike, which I might do tomorrow morning before work if I get a chance.

BMWrick, you seem to be on the money on your assessment! The clutch didn't really slip at all before it died, I was doing highway speeds and all of a sudden it just started revving out as if I pulled in the lever but kept my hand on the gas. Of course I released the gas as soon as I realized the engine was revving freely, but it gave me no warning in advance as a normal worn clutch would. As far as oil checks go, I would check the sight glass every couple rides or so, probably once a week or two, depending on the weather. I never saw it dip below the sight glass. If the oil is as low as they say, that could be indicative of another problem. Or is it typical of these motors to burn over a quart in approx 3000 miles with no signs of smoking or leakage?

I'll have to ask them about the compression and the valve adjustments if I go in..

I will keep you guys informed. Thanks again for the input.

[bmwmick]

beemer,
Sounds like they are going to do the right thing. :clap Keep us posted.

On the oil consumption, YES, these engines can burn up to a quart in 1,000 miles during early life. My '96 R11RT used about a quart every 2,000 miles for the first 10K and now at 30K miles it only uses about a quart in 5,000 miles.

Mick

[graben]

Hi beemer, my '04 1150 rt used a quart of oil in 4300 miles after the 6xx mile check up. good idea to check oil level before each ride.

[macman320]

This is all intriguing to me. I used to be a Honda Dealer back in the 70's.
Honda would actually TELL ME I wasn't doing enough warranty claims. This was as per dealership averages.
I told them we didn't have any warranty work/complaints/inquiries. Maybe because we actually did what the set-up maunual said to do, like actually adjust valves out of the crate again etc.
It got so that whenever anybody with a warranty card came in for anything, I would write up anything, like relace an oil leak on the crank, which meant getting paid 16 hours labor for splitting the cases to replace a $1.42 seal and charge it to Honda.
Never once did Honda question anything or even want to see any parts replaced, EVER!
As long as the paperwork was done correctly.
That's honoring your product.
I even got them to warranty an entire engine for my modified production road racer that I over reved and threw a rod through the cases. They never even wanted to see any parts from that. They told me Honda would pay labor or parts for "My Demo"
Something wrong with BMW to not be eager to stand behind their overpriced, overcomplicated machines that are sold new.
Don't get me wrong, I love BMW's , I have three oilheds, but I would never think of buying a new one and hassling with the Motorcycle Boutique Dealers "Created in Some Image and Likeness"

[beemer]

Guess what I rode to work today on?

Yup, Friday afternoon at lunch I got a call from Eric over at GBM. He said "your bike is ready, come pick it up!"

I headed right over and thanked him and he introduced me to the service manager, whom I apologized to for raising a stink and asked about the compression issue. He said there was no compression problem and seemed seriously annoyed at who ever wrote that on my repair order for me to see.

They handed me a 2 page list of parts that had been replaced- all under warranty! I have to tip my hat to Eric and the service manager for taking care of this finally.

Now I'm just hyper-paranoid because the clutch smells like it's burning (which I'm assuming is a break-in issue) and the clutch picks up instantly.. I barely move the lever a half inch and it disengages the engine, whereas before I had to pull it much farther in.
The first time I started it there was a bit of blue smoke though- more than I'd ever noticed before. I'll ignore that and get used to a product that burns more oil than my M3. (Which I thought was bad at a quart every 5-10k miles..)

We'll see how long this one lasts, but I must say, my confidence in the product has been shaken. I'm glad that the dealership and BMW accepted responsibility and covered everything though.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I appreciate the support!

PS- Anyone wanna buy a slightly used '04 adventure? brand new clutch!! ;)

[Ghostryder]

Great!!!!!! I am glad to hear that everything eventually worked out!!!!!! It is my beliefe that a good dealer would be glad to help, and go out of his way to do so. Dont let the one incident, mostly dealer related sway your confidence in the product. My 1200 had the rear seal go, throwing "funk" onto the clutch, causing it to slip. Although the dealer replaced it, and said that it was under warranty he refused to give me a print out of what he had replaced, and what he had done. Still going round and round with them about that. Good luck and ride safe!!!!:clap :clap :clap :clap :beer