04 R1150RT - Need advice on starter removal

[Bohan]

I am a new BMW MOA member and would like to know if anybody has experience with removing the starter for cleaning and lubricating. The starter began producing some grinding sounds after releasing the starter button which some say is an indication that the mechanism may need some cleaning. The removal instructions on my Haynes service manual seem pretty straight forward but the procedure seems to apply to a different starter model.

I am a little confused about the location of the bolts that must be unscrewed to expose the shaft assembly and plunger mechanism without disassembling the whole starter. I am attaching a picture of the starter as I am sure BMW uses different models. Thank you for your help.

[Dave_Faria]

I'm not sure if I'm correct but by the head of the tie wrap in your picture is the head of the starter guide pin. The pin appears to be too far out to properly position the starter to correctly engage the fly wheel. There is a lot of slop in the mounting bolts. I haven't looked at mine in a couple of months. Check to be sure there is enough guide pin at the mounting point on the engine to position the starter correctly.

I have one of the mis-aligned trannies so I pull the starter at every valve adjustment to check the input shaft wear.

Dave Faria
Austin, Tx

[jimmyb]

My 99 1100rt has similar symptons. I searched this forum for "starter" and there is a lot of info!

This one is the one I liked the best. good luck.

http://www.bmwst.com/faq/docs/starter.pdf

[Bohan]

Thanks for the tips, Dave and Jimmy. I think the starter.pdf doc will be very helpful. Nice website, by the way. I'll try again this weekend.

[PGlaves]

OK - it's easy.

The starter is held in by two bolts. One of the two is visible in your picture. The other one is located at about a 4:30 o'clock position looking at the rear of the starter. Both bolts take a 6mm allen wrench.

Once those two bolts are removed the starter simply comes out to the rear.

Then - look at the nose of the starter. You will see a bronze plain bushing at the very end of the shaft in the nose casting. You will see the drive gear just inside the nose of the casting. And just a bit behind that nose gear you will see a round, silver disk also on the shaft. That round silver disk is the starter one-way clutch which allows the starter to spin the engine but prevents the engine from over spinning the starter once it starts, until the starter gear retracts.

When the mechanisms are dirty and need lubrication you get a screetch and maybe a grinding noise. I do the following any time I have a starter out.

With the starter nose (front) pointing straight up, I:

1. Use electrical cleaner to spray the nose bushing, the interface of the gear and the shaft, and the seam visible on the front face of that silver disk. Cleaner. Compressed air. Cleaner. Compressed air. This is to remove any old lube and grit.

2. I apply lubricating oil - I use regular 3 in 1 brand oil - to the shaft end and nose bushing. A few drops will flow down into the bushing.

3. I apply lubricating oil to the inside of the nose gear where it meets the shaft.

4. I spray WD40 at the seam in the silver disk. It puddles and then runs into the clutch assembly.

Once this is done I put the starter firmly in my vice and use jumper cables to bench test the starter. Affix the +12v cable to the top lug you removed the big starter wire from. Attach the negative ground lead to the starter case. NOTHING HAPPENS!

Then use a small test wire to jump from the +12v to the little spade lug you pulled the small starter wire from. Just touch it. The starter jumps as the solenoid throws, and the starter spins. Once or twice and I put it back in the bike.

[ragtoplvr]

I work where these drives are rebuilt. No, I do not have parts for this drive.

You need extreme pressure lube for the inside, it is hard metal on hard metal.

Lubriplate 777 is the best lube for any very light moly chassis grease will do. Winter riders below zero should use silicone grease like dow corning 33. Make the grease too heavy and it will not crank in the winter. To grease the drive without disassembly you need to take it off the shaft. dealing with the snap ring and collar is not for the timid. If I were to spray stuff inside thru the crack I would use spray moly lube.

Otherwise I would leave the innards of the starter drive alone. I have seen literally tens of thousands of drives opened, and the insides where the rollers and springs live stays fairly clean.

If you do take the drive off, to grease it I pack the inside with grease, then use the shaft to push it in. If you pack around the splines, then centrifugal force will push the grease in when it cranks.

But mostly you can leave the inside alone. the bronze bushings and the planetary gear reduction gears and the brush area (another area to leave alone unless you are brave) are what need the clean and lube.

Rod

[PGlaves]

I work where these drives are rebuilt. No, I do not have parts for this drive.

You need extreme pressure lube for the inside, it is hard metal on hard metal.

Lubriplate 777 is the best lube for any very light moly chassis grease will do. Winter riders below zero should use silicone grease like dow corning 33. Make the grease too heavy and it will not crank in the winter. To grease the drive without disassembly you need to take it off the shaft. dealing with the snap ring and collar is not for the timid. If I were to spray stuff inside thru the crack I would use spray moly lube.

Otherwise I would leave the innards of the starter drive alone. I have seen literally tens of thousands of drives opened, and the insides where the rollers and springs live stays fairly clean.

If you do take the drive off, to grease it I pack the inside with grease, then use the shaft to push it in. If you pack around the splines, then centrifugal force will push the grease in when it cranks.

But mostly you can leave the inside alone. the bronze bushings and the planetary gear reduction gears and the brush area (another area to leave alone unless you are brave) are what need the clean and lube.

Rod

As a repair facility, what do you do when the magnets fall off and get chewed up?

[ragtoplvr]

We do not normally rebuild complete units, just sub assemblies, like starter drives.

However, usual solution is new magnet case. If a starter is popular enough, a new field case from China is remarkable inexpensive.

You can reattach magnets if intact, I use silicone sealer thinned with Xylene to a thinner consistency, you can also glue a simple crack with this concoction, but usually the magnet is too far gone. Normally done when new is no longer available. That needs to cure for several days. OE will use urethane adhesive. To reattach though I have had better luck with the silicone seal.

You can reload the magnets if you have a machine and the proper adapter to charge them after loading, very expensive. I have seen the factories that do the charging. Hint, do not get close if wearing a watch with hands. Some folks load them charged, much more labor. And if Neodymium magnets, a real good way to lose a finger tip!

But usually more damage than that it it will become a parts donor for other starters. You can buy new pretty reasonable thru channels. I do not have channel for Valeo. The unit rebuilders will. We only do components, mostly solenoids and some starter drives. And for business reasons I can not sell to individuals, the unit guys get upset.

Rod

[PGlaves]

We do not normally rebuild complete units, just sub assemblies, like starter drives.

However, usual solution is new magnet case. If a starter is popular enough, a new field case from China is remarkable inexpensive.

You can reattach magnets if intact, I use silicone sealer thinned with Xylene to a thinner consistency, you can also glue a simple crack with this concoction, but usually the magnet is too far gone. Normally done when new is no longer available. That needs to cure for several days. OE will use urethane adhesive. To reattach though I have had better luck with the silicone seal.

You can reload the magnets if you have a machine and the proper adapter to charge them after loading, very expensive. I have seen the factories that do the charging. Hint, do not get close if wearing a watch with hands. Some folks load them charged, much more labor. And if Neodymium magnets, a real good way to lose a finger tip!

But usually more damage than that it it will become a parts donor for other starters. You can buy new pretty reasonable thru channels. I do not have channel for Valeo. The unit rebuilders will. We only do components, mostly solenoids and some starter drives. And for business reasons I can not sell to individuals, the unit guys get upset.

Rod

Thanks. I understand fully the business aspects. I occasionally get a little crap from some dealers if I take on a charity project pro-bono. I always figured if lawyers could do that then so could hobbyists. Most of the time though it's not $ out of the dealer's pocket anyway because the owner didn't have the money to get their bike fixed.

[Bohan]

I'd like to thank everyone for all the advice. I was able to pull the started out once I located that second bolt well hidden behind a wire bundle. That bolt was a knucklebuster, but with lots of patience using the torx wrench in the BMW tool kit I finally got it out and cleaned and lubed the starter. I am attaching a before and after picture. The starter is no longer sticking and making strange noises. Thanks again.

[Bohan]

Here's the after picture:

P.S. I left the innards of the starter drive alone.

[LOCKGUY]

I am curious as to the milage on this bike. I have an 04RT also with 27,000 miles but no starter problems yet.

Thanks

[kenhaggett]

I just pulled the starter off of my R1100GS yesterday. She wouldn't start; only clicked even after fully charging the battery. I could hear the click coming from the starter and found it was arching on one of the brush posts. Turned out all of the magnets in the motor had come off of the casing as mentioned above. I thought about trying to remount the magnets in the casing but ended up ordering a new starter instead. I'll keep this one for a parts unit. Sounds like the magnet disconnect is not so unusual.

[Motor31]

A magnet disconnect like that SHOULD be very unusual. It's disgusting that it isn't.

[PGlaves]

Based on the first picture its a wonder you found the disk shaped clutch I described as silver. Usually you can at leat tell what color it is!

[Bohan]

I am curious as to the milage on this bike. I have an 04RT also with 27,000 miles but no starter problems yet.

Thanks

32,000 miles

[Andy VH]

My 94 RS developed high starter draw, and slow cranking, which I found was the magnets in the starter housing had come loose. I had another salvage starter with loose magnets, So I mixed the parts to get three good magnets to add to the one still glued in place in the starter can.

I figured out which polarities were correct (of the four, each on is the opposite polarity of the next one). I reglued the magnets into the can with JB Weld high temperature epoxy, and reassembled the starter after the epoxy cured for a day. I did the usual lube of the pinion gear and beariung, but did nothing else to the starter after I re-assembled it, and the bike cranked over just fine after I re-installed the starter.

So far, after 400+ miles of riding, with multiple starts in cold weather, and everything is fine. The voltage drop on a fresh charged battery is about 10.8 v at worst from a start of 13.3 v.

[nrpetersen]

From the pictures, I'm surprised at the amount of debris inside the flywheel/clutch housing.

[JanMiller]

Here's the after picture:

P.S. I left the innards of the starter drive alone.

An' don' it make you feel GOOD!!!!

[masonke]

Here's the after picture:

P.S. I left the innards of the starter drive alone.

That looks great, I need to do the same.

What did you use to clean the gunk off it?

[Bohan]

That looks great, I need to do the same.

What did you use to clean the gunk off it?

I used WD40. I plan on doing it more frequently, maybe every 6k miles, since it is a relatively easy job. Hopefully that will keep the amount of debris to a minimum. I should have done this sooner.