Advice for Eastern Boys heading West

[deitscher]

Hello all,

This August I and two other Pennsylvania riders are heading out your way. This will be our virgin experience west of the Mississippi. My question to all of you westerners, is can you give us any advice? We are not necessarily looking for places to see or stay (although that would be appreciated as well), what we are looking for are tips for your neck of the woods i.e. things you can't learn from books or the internet. For example, if you guys were traveling to PA, we could give you advice on how to deal with White Tail Deer or Amish Buggies.

We are planning to ride through MN, ND and into MT in order to see Glacier, then heading south to do Yellowstone and returning East through WY, SD, IA etc. We are really excited about the trip...and any info you experts can pass along would be great!

BTW - we will be camping the whole way and will be traveling from the 1 - 16 of August.

Thanks in advance!

[108625]

Mule deer are bigger than whitetail, elk are bigger than mule deer, and buffalo are bigger than elk. None of them obey the rules; but I think your biggest change in watching out for animals will be free-range cattle. Even fenced ranches will herd them across the road from one pasture to another, and they all seem compelled to empty their bowels on the pavement.
Beef isn't just for dinner, it's for revenge.

It will be hot of course, but it's not near as humid as it is out east. It's really easy to dry yourself out if you're wearing mesh or vented gear, so drink more. Soaking your T-shirt with water at rest stops and such helps with cooling off, 'cause there's not enough sweat to do it for you.

There are lots of mosquitoes too. Voracious little ones that itch good at first, but it stops after half an hour or so. Bug spray helps, but it ruins plastics and such, so keep it away from your gear.

You'll be travelling at the same time as the Sturgis crowd; so places to stay (even campsites) might be harder to find. Prices can go up temporarily too.

I'm originally from PA, and live here now. I'd be happy to help with more specific questions if you have any; feel free to send a PM if you want... Happy Trails!

[Rich]

Speaking of Sturgis, if you haven't been there, you should make a day or two of it. It's an experience you need to see at least once.

[lazywizard02]

You are headed into some long dry stretches. Get creative with your water supply and access. I sacrifice my tank bag mostly to a camelback in a little cooler iced down well. Lasts all day in Texas. Also, be free with the spray on sun lotion. Better review your gas stops, especially if you each have different distances. KOAs are good for relaible safe camping with showers. Keep a camera available. Enjoy, sounds like a fun trip.

[72598]

108625 forgot to mention turkey, sheep and antelope. Also rattle snakes, bears!

If you are that close might consider Waterton Lakes and other National Parks in Alberta. Glacier is overrated and over crowded compared to the Canadian parks.

When near Yellowstone do Bear Tooth Pass. Also don't plan on camping in Yellowstone or Teton parks unless you have reservations. There are showers at Old Faithful. In Wyoming you can get a free state map at any weigh and check station.

Don't pay daily park entry fees (federal) it is far cheaper to get a yearly pass. ($80 or senior 62+ $10 lifetime) Yellowstone pass is $25 cars $20 MC then again if you go to Devil's tower again at badlands....etc IT ADDS UP FAST! The $80 pass is good for USPS, USFS and BLM

http://store.usgs.gov/pass/annual.html

Carry cold weather gear too. In SD it can be 115 in daytime and 20 miles away that night be in the 20s in August. There is BMW rally in Spearfish,SD (16 miles from Sturgis) about a week before Sturgis Rally. A large threshing bee and steam power meet the week after.

In the Black Hills there is much great riding Spearfish Canyon, Iron Mtn. Road, Needles Hwy. Custer State Park...too much to list. The Black hills are quite volatile and campfires are prohibited almost everywhere. Check out the motorcycle museum in Sturgis. The car museum in Rapid City. There is a good Museum (FREE) at Ft Meade about 5 miles from Sturgis (this is where Custer was stationed, also has a VA Hospital) Deadwood has gambling.

Most of the Black hills are a dead zone for cell phones and PDAs, but WIFI is common.

http://www.sdgfp.info/parks/
http://www.us-parks.com/
http://www.sdgfp.info/Parks/Regions/Custer/custersp.htm
http://www.rapidcitychamber.com/
http://www.blackhillstouristinfo.com/
http://www.museumsusa.org/museums/info/1159843
http://www.sturgismuseum.com/
http://www.lasr.net/pages/city.php?Sturgis&South%20Dakota&&City_ID=SD0101138&Event_ID=SD0101138e003&VE=Y

[SIBUD]

If you are that close might consider Waterton Lakes and other National Parks in Alberta. Glacier is overrated and over crowded compared to the Canadian parks.

When near Yellowstone do Bear Tooth Pass.



Last summer we visited Glacier, Banff and Jasper.

Skip Glacier and head directly to Banff and Jasper. You won't be disappointed.

Ride the Bear Tooth and plan on spending most of a day to enjoy the many scenic vistas. Be sure to ride up to the fire tower. Good dirt road. Rode my RT up it with no problems. The view from the top will take your breath away.

Have fun. :wave

Ride safe. :bikeshttp://data.sailboatowners.com/photos/1235592829.jpg

[HexST]

if you see this sign you are sharing the road with cattle.

[Jeff488]

Speaking of Sturgis, if you haven't been there, you should make a day or two of it. It's an experience you need to see at least once.

I have seen photos and videos of it. I can't imagine wanting to actually be there.
Much better use of your time doing other stuff.
Different strokes, I guess.
Just sayin'.

[108625]

I wouldn't skip Glacier; the roads might be a bit rough but it's worth it. If anything, I found Waterton to be the only "overrated" part... and regardless of the exchange rate, Canada isn't cheap.

[tourunigo]

For us, being easterners, the adventure really begins as you pass the Mississippi. As you transition, maybe shooting a bit south through Clarksdale, just south of Memphis (another 'don't miss'...."thank you .... thank you very much") and take in a bit of Delta Blues. Lots of choices after that. So many choices and so many gorgeous (and spacious) places to see. You did not say how your route looks so maybe if you shared that you might get some specifics. Catch 66, route 50 (get the T-Shirt), north rim and south rim, Yellowstone, Cal #1, ..... so many things to see. Just try riding in California and not sing Beach Boys songs or ride through Santa Monica without Cheryl Crow singing in the distance. Great people and spectacular places. Enjoy you adventure! - Bob (eastern city 'kid' who has enjoyed every journey west)

[deitscher]

Guys,

Thanks so much for all of the great information! This is why I love the MOA...sharing experiences and knowledge. I look forward to more info....

In response to a previous question: From Yellowstone heading home, we are planning on riding through SD (Mt Rushmore and the Badlands) and then south towards St. Louis, then cutting back NE through KY and OH and finally back into the Keystone State.

Someone told me that gas stations in rural Montana close early (~4pm)...is this true? Is there anything else to know in regards to gas stations out west? A lot of our gas stations out here in PA are open 24 hours...and all pumps take credit cards.

Will we have trouble finding groceries for dinner when we roll into towns for our evening camping?

[tourunigo]

I wouldn't skip Glacier; the roads might be a bit rough but it's worth it. If anything, I found Waterton to be the only "overrated" part... and regardless of the exchange rate, Canada isn't cheap.


you're right we're not cheap..... but we can be a bit expensive:rofl -Bob

[KBasa]

It'll be much drier than you're used to, so be sure to bring some kind of lip balm, stay hydrated and be careful with your sun exposure. If you don't have one, be sure to bring the requisite Big Floppy Hat. With no shade to speak of in large portions of the west, sunburns are a very real problem.

When you're riding, be concious of how far the next town is. It's entirely possible and realistic to have your gas light come on 50 miles from the next town.

Don't ride after dark. Too many critters.

The speed limit by the government might be 65, but the locals will be blazing along at 80. Use them as rabbits, but watch your rear.

Be aware that elevation will control temperatures, so be prepared to start the day with two or three layers under your gear, stopping to peel them off or put them back on as needed. You may also experience riding in a valley under cloudy skies, then riding right up a mountain pass and into rain, then back down out of the rain and on into a beautiful day. Weather can be highly changeable.

Be comfortable riding in wind. Gusty wind is a given in the west, so be prepared to spend lots of time riding with gusty crosswinds, headwinds, and tailwinds. If you ride into a storm, you may be wise to park it for twenty minutes and let the big ugly gusting portion of the storm pass by.

If you're riding to elevation, don't be surprised if you feel funky for a day or two. It's altitude sickness and your best bet is staying hydrated, getting decent sleep, being careful with alcohol and, I'm told, taking some Tylenol. I usually take it easy for a day after I find myself above 5000 feet.

Speaking of elevation, higher altitudes will be chilly at night, so be prepared to break out the layers after dark.

Enjoy the west. We liked it so much we moved out here. After living in the east, where you rarely get a good look at the horizon, seeing an uninterrupted horizon 360 degrees around you can be humbling. You realize that you, as a human being, are an insect on the face of the planet and that there are forces that are larger, stronger and longer lasting than puny human effort. Whether you chalk that up to a deity or the forces of nature is up to you, but either way, it's a wonderful perspective to have from time to time.

[108625]

Someone told me that gas stations in rural Montana close early (~4pm)...is this true? Is there anything else to know in regards to gas stations out west? A lot of our gas stations out here in PA are open 24 hours...and all pumps take credit cards.
Will we have trouble finding groceries for dinner when we roll into towns for our evening camping?

Good questions.
Yes, some rural gas stations do close early, but many of them have switched to after hours credit card pumps... Still, it's best to stop for gas when you see it available.
The same goes for groceries; some of the "towns" on the map are just junctions where two country roads meet, with no services. Others are dying farm/ranch communities, where there may not be as much available as there once was. A lot of these small towns will still have a diner or some sort of "general store".
I would suggest packing some camping food (freeze dried, etc.) as a back up plan, for evenings when you strike out trying to find something locally.

Kbasa did mention some points I overlooked about altitude and wind. Fact is I've lived here long enough to be so used to both I've forgotten what it's like without them. Fortunately, summer is not what we call the windy season, though it may still seem strong by comparison. Everything's relative.

It can get cold at night when you're camping out, particularly in the mountains. Remember that mountain sunsets come early and sunrise is late, due to the "taller" horizon, so allow time to set up camp before it get's dark.

Happy trails!

[72598]

A few more things:

ALTITUDE

At even a low altitude like 5000 ft you will get sunburn about 6-7 times as fast as at sea level. (even worse when swimming)

If you are dark skinned or have a tan you are not immune. WEAR SUNSCREEN not tanning lotion.

If you are blonde or redheaded might consider skipping the sunscreen and wear a long sleeve. (also use zinc oxide on nose)

Skin will dry out so carry some lotion.

Wear a hat when off your bike. (helmets are quite painful to wear when your bald spot is sunburnt.)

Try to buy lip-balm that has a SPF of at least 30.

The suns rays are more intense, even if reflected, so wear sunglasses around snow or water. (your eyes can get sunburnt too)

Liquor will hit you a lot harder. (one or two beers feels like a 6 pack at sea level)

Water boils at alower temp. so cooking will take a little longer.

In some smaller towns grocery stores may keep bankers hours (8-5) and be closed on Sunday. (In some towns even Super Wall Mart closes at 8pm)

Remember that in a lot of the West (especially mountains) you will have no cell coverage! (you can usually tell these areas as they still have pay phones)

[108625]

you're right we're not cheap..... but we can be a bit expensive:rofl -Bob

That's why you're always welcome here. :usa :ca Bring loonies and beer.

[tourunigo]

A few more things:

ALTITUDE

At even a low altitude like 5000 ft you will get sunburn about 6-7 times as fast as at sea level. (even worse when swimming)

If you are dark skinned or have a tan you are not immune. WEAR SUNSCREEN not tanning lotion.

If you are blonde or redheaded might consider skipping the sunscreen and wear a long sleeve. (also use zinc oxide on nose)

Skin will dry out so carry some lotion.

Wear a hat when off your bike. (helmets are quite painful to wear when your bald spot is sunburnt.)

Try to buy lip-balm that has a SPF of at least 30.

The suns rays are more intense, even if reflected, so wear sunglasses around snow or water. (your eyes can get sunburnt too)

Liquor will hit you a lot harder. (one or two beers feels like a 6 pack at sea level)

Water boils at alower temp. so cooking will take a little longer.

In some smaller towns grocery stores may keep bankers hours (8-5) and be closed on Sunday. (In some towns even Super Wall Mart closes at 8pm)

Remember that in a lot of the West (especially mountains) you will have no cell coverage! (you can usually tell these areas as they still have pay phones)

excellent advise regarding the sunscreen and lip-balm. Being fair skinned I can burn up real quick when riding all day. Between the wind (I usually have the shield up) and sun my nose, upper cheeks and lips can take a beating if I neglect applying adequate treatment. Add to this the sunglasses and it doesn't take long to look like a cross between a lobster and a racoon. And when not riding be aware of the sun's embrace because a day of riding with a burn really is no fun (and if you are experiencing hair loss on the top... like I am .... be sure to have a hat. The helmet will no longer be your friend.) -Bob

[scat1446]

If you are going thru any of the parks, stay overnight as close to the entrance as possible and get an early start. People and traffic increase as the day goes on. Narrow roads and lots of traffic take away from the real sights.

[bikerfish1100]

Speaking of the NPs- if you see a colelction of cars stopped on the side of teh road, slow down. it's a "wild animal event". could be anything from a family of moose, a coyote, a flock of bighorn sheep, a herd of elk (yeah, i've heard of them) or to the relatively mundane marmots or Rocky Mountain Squirrels (amazing what some people find intriguing).

[deitscher]

Hey Guys and Gals,

Thanks again for all of your info. I have been talking with my riding companions and have come up with more questions for you guys to ponder:

1. What experiences does anyone have with camping in Glacier or Yellowstone? I know people say that they fill up quickly, usually by lunch. How are making reservations? Do they actually work? Would you guys suggest it? Do we make reservations online or should we call?

2. How much time should we allow to do Bear Tooth? We will be hitting it after leaving Yellowstone and starting our return trip east.

3. Our trip out west (as of right now) will be from Aug 1 - 16. So, I guess we will be hitting Sturgis traffic. Are they as invasive as I have heard? Any suggestions on how to avoid them?

Any help will be greatly appreciated...

[bikerfish1100]

1) have camped in both parks, and got my sites before noon the day i wanted to stay. of course, i have also had to camp outside the park due to "all full". if your dates are definite, make reservations.

2)Beartooth is a MUCH better ride going form Red Lodge into YNP than coming out of the park. Best run is to take Beartooth in, and Chief Joseph out.

3) Avoid the Black Hills during Sturgis week, unless you really enjoy watching circus events.

[PGlaves]

1. Start early, stop early
2. Gas early and often.
3. Carry water, drink water, stay hydrated
4. Don't think your cell phone will work even though it might sometimes.
5. If you do want to camp in the National Parks - pick the days - get reservations.
6. National Forest (US Forest Service) campgrounds are good places - but are often primitive - water and toilets sometimes about it. They are my favorites.
7. Carry at least 2 credit cards, some cash, and some reserve cash.
8. Have roadside assistance coverage.
9. Start the trip with NEW tires, even if the ones you have to take off have some life left. Tires on the road are $$$$. (Note: I gave away a take off tire last week to a guy who was 600 miles from home with cord showing all the way around the tire - and tried to give away the same take off a week earlier to a guy that managed to find a new tire instead - trying to get 650 miles back home.)

[bikerfish1100]

i have found good success (both price and availablity) using Cycle Gear stores for puchasing and mounting tires while on teh road- if the road happens to be somewhat near one of their stores. website will list both locations and prices- their internet pricing is identical to storefront pricing, and mounting is usually around $20/wheel; if you hand them a wheel with no bike attached (easy thing to do with basic BMW toolkit and c-stand supplied).
but Paul is right; generally speaing, start with new sneakers before you leave.

[tourunigo]

Some other thoughts:

1) our tires took us 11,000 miles (loaded and two up) last summer so put on new tread and make natural wear one less thing to worry about.

2) $$$$: Don't put your wallet in a back pocket when walking about and keep your very important papers in a safe, on body place. separate two credit cards. photocopy each just in case of loss/stolen so that you can contact the bank. don't take cards with high limits (ie a $20,000 dollar card but it's good to have access if needed .... hope that doesn't happen for you though). A $5,000 limit is what we take along on each card and use one for daily purchases (American Express gave us lots of Air Miles and it kept a running account of expenses, items and locations. Minimal cash but tuck some away. don't forget enough change for bridges and roadways as needed (some say having one bike do the paying is quite efficient when the booth has a real person taking the coin).

3) how's medical coverage? We keep Blue Cross handy. That and a good credit card are particularly handy if 'it all goes wrong'. Our Blue Cross even covers bike recovery and accommodations (if able to escape the need for a hospital stay).

4) AAA has recreational vehicle coverage. Good to have plus all those maps and books. Good deal. (If you have room for a couple of ratchet straps I would take them because all towing companies are not created equal and you might not like the way some try and tie a bike down. Straps good to have if you are on board any ferries.)

5) cut off middle fingers if they tend to spontaneously salute. (Mary threatened to relieve mine of their careless duties if I ever did it again... so I pass on her wisdom).

6) brake pads in good shape?

7) photocopy driver's license, insurance papers, registration etc and keep in a safe place that won't be tampered with.

-Bob

[HexST]

Another option for camping in NP's is KOA I have a KOA card get a discount and have had good luck close to NP's especially Glacier there is a campground both just East and West of the park during the week I can stay at one of the Kabins quite reasonable.

[72598]

3. Our trip out west (as of right now) will be from Aug 1 - 16. So, I guess we will be hitting Sturgis traffic. Are they as invasive as I have heard? Any suggestions on how to avoid them?

The problem is just excessive traffic, Imagine rush hour traffic (mostly but not all bikes) that lasts most of the day. I-90 in Sturgis has Speed limit of 75 but reduced to 55 during rally (actual speed is usually 40-45 in interstate through Sturgis and about 5-10 miles either way. (outside of Sturgis traffic is heavy but usually runs close to speed limit)

The rally is 03-09 of August this year. Plan on camping as you will not find a vacant motel during rally. You should at least experience it once, during rally. (plan on at least one day just to see Main Street bikes, museum and vendors, also much bike related stuff has moved to Spearfish and Rapid City- were talking over 1/2 mil. people in a town of 5500) As to doing any touring in Black Hills you could avoid about 90% of traffic by doing the Hills on return trip, probably get motel then too. (I would suggest waiting for Spearfish Canyon, Bear Butte, Custer State Park, Iron Mtn Hwy, and the Mts Rushmore-Collidge<highest driveable point in SD- Haney PK<hightest point in SD- Crazy Horse)

The best map of the Hills is the BHNF map sold by the Forrest Service

Also during rally Sturgis is very expensive on essential items like food (this includes grocery stores) and gas. (it is a lot cheaper to eat in Rapid- 25mi, Spearfish-16mi or Deadwood/Lead-11mi

[Madhatter]

Previous advice is spot on. I'd just emphasize the advice on fueling frequently. If you are off the beaten track, the distance between gas stations can be surprisingly long. It looks close on the map, but that little town may be 70 miles away. And the gas station may not be open. I fuel up frequently, especially if I'm not familiar with the terrain ahead.

Have a great trip.

[RocksforBrains]

You will have the time of your life. I would also chime in on the scarcity of gas stations in eastern Montana. A buddy and I did Yellowstone, Beartooth Pass and then on to Glacier Park last summer. We were travelling from Red Lodge to Great Falls on the back roads on a Sunday. I was OK as I have an RT with lots of range. He was on a Harley Ultra Glide Classic and he almost ran out of gas twice on that part of the trip.

Two things: 1) As mentioned in an earlier post, just because there is a dot on the map doesn't make it a town with a gas station; it could be a half dozen houses and nothing more. 2) On Sunday, quite a few of the gas stations in those very small towns were closed.

Kurt

[rab1957]

This might be something to look into. I've seen entries from members of other forums that have used this service that speak highly of it and I believe MOA members get a discount.

http://www.medjetassist.com/

[Brettendress]

Camped in Yellowstone and got the last sight at Tower falls at 6pm, real lucky that day. Rode out at 6am and came into a herd of 400 buffalo crossing the road out of Yellowstone. Rode Beartooth pass with no one else on the road and it was the best day of my life. Went onto Glacier NP arrived at KOA west Glacier 1/4 mile from the entrance at 5:30 (had a reso) Great place KOA half moon flat west glacier and they cooked a nice dinner for us at their little kitchen and spent the night. Spent the next day riding the going to the sun highway, not as fun as Beartooth but worth it and then onto Rt 2 for three days travel to the National in Wisconsin. Hope this helps. Both camp grounds had fire wood near by for purchase and stores for food and places to get fuel etc. This was in mid-July the key was early starts for me with no traffic.

Brett Endress
Altoona PA

[108625]

Don't miss Looking Glass road in Glacier. Don't fall off either; most of it doesn't have guardrails.

[krishnan]

Regarding gas stations, use maps.yahoo.com and enter the town/address you plan to be around and type "gas" in the "Find a business on the map" search box to get a list of all gas stations in that area. Most major gas station chains also have web sites and provide a list of stations (including times and available conveniences) near an address. You can also find restaurants and other businesses this way.

No one mentioned it here, but I strongly recommend you carry a GPS. If you don't have one for your bike, carry one if you have a mobile GPS for your car. Or borrow one for the trip. These are immensely helpful -- great time saving devices when venturing into new territory.

My experience driving/riding in northern CA, Oregon, Idaho, and Washington is that these internet listings and GPS listings of gas stations are fairly accurate. You are also likely to find more gas stations that didn't make it into these databases.

My question.

I'm planning a ride from Seattle to Minneapolis in the last week June (and return the first week of July with a 5 day break between the two trips). This is the July 4th week/weekend. Would it be easy to ride to a motel on a Friday/Saturday in Montana and North Dakota (in small/mid sized towns like Bozeman, Billings, Bismarck, Fargo) and expect to find a vacancy? I hate to have to make a reservation and lose flexibility. I'm assuming weekdays is easier to find a vacancy.

[MLS2GO]

You have to pay the $25.00 extra for motorcycles with MedJet Assist or you won't be covered for a motorcycle accident.
It will be windier in the west than anywhere in the east except Mount Washington. Western people are a little like native Southerners, time moves a little slower. Relax, move at their speed, it's their state. People who live out here in flyover country hate that phrase, I wouldn't recommend it.
Temperature Shifts. In 2002 I was riding across eastern Montana and it was 107, next day the low in Cut Bank Montana, was 37. 70 degree swing in 12 hours. Mileages are big. It is over 800 miles across the top of Montana. That's like going from the East Coast to Illinois.
On your first trip you will know why it is called Big Sky Country.
Also don't freak when you see lower octane at higher elevations. You don't need as high at the higher altitudes.
Mostly just relax and enjoy. I did the first time I rode to New York City.