R65 LS - New Acquisition

[kentuvman]

I am now an "airhead"

Bought a non-running '81 in pretty nice cosmetic shape - red / black white powder coated rims. Needs attention.

Couple questions if anyone can help:'
a) gas in tank - key won't open lock - how do I open?
b) Bing Carbs need rebuilding - seeking best approach for doing this
c) bike stuck in gear - engine turns over - am planning to approach it by first checking compression and if okay. changing fluids, check valves, replace plugs and try to start it? I realize splines are probably in need of lubrication on both ends - did not see a separate trans box for this one but if there is trans fluid would drain and refill. What would be a good compression reading for the motor?

Will be more questions but answers to a, b & c will help get me moving in right direction.

What is best repair book to purchase?

[20774]

a) So what does it do exactly? Does it spin even though the lock is unlocked or will the key not actually unlock it? One thing is that people will tighten the cap until it clicks several times. This is not the way the cap works...it doesn't work like you car. If this has been done, then the mechanism has been broken. Look here for some information:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/locks_caps_etc.htm

b) buy the book from Bing...costs $10-15. Bing or your dealer can provide parts. Also, Snowbum has articles on overhaul here. He's a bit wordy, but hang in there...there's good information in there.

c) likely the clutch is stuck and won't release. If you're going to work on the splines, then remove the transmission and deal with the clutch at that point. There is another possibility...not sure if affects your transmission. There is a $5 pawl spring that can break which keeps the tranny from shifting anymore. The only way to fix that is by a tranny overhaul...major surgery. But first look into the clutch.

Yes there's the same gear oil in the entire drive line...tranny, driveshaft, and final drive. Change them all. The tranny and final drive are typically filled so that oil comes to the bottom of the threads on the inspection hole. For the driveshaft, it's filled based upon volume...no effective way to measure the depth. Generally, 100-150cc is all that's needed.

Be sure to read up on changing the engine oil and filter. The order and sizing of some of the components is somewhat critical. See what comes out and ensure that either you do it the same way going back in or confirm what you're doing:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/Oil.htm

I've referenced Snowbum's articles...check the rest of his website out. This the most comprehensive listing of Airhead maintenance information on the web. Another good place is Anton at:

http://www.largiader.com/

Get yourself some kind of aftermarket maintenance manual...maybe two of them to compare notes. I find Haynes to have good pictures...Clymers may also be useful.

Compression numbers...140-150??? You might want to also consider a leakdown test at some point. This will tell you the condition of rings and valves...might need that information down the line.

One other thing...the R65 is a bit of an odd duck...still a BMW and Airhead, but there are things, dimensions, and parts that are unique only to this bike. I'm sure you'll get to know it well!!

Good luck...

[kentuvman]

The gas tank has a locking flip cap, the same as my K75 but the key won't unlock it. The only way it will open is with a key or breaking it with a s/driver - not the route I want to take - yet.

Thanks for your reply.

[108625]

Before you try forcing your gas cap, get some carb cleaner and spray it in there. Sometimes varnish buildup from fuel vapors can "glue" a locking cap shut, very likely if the bike has been sitting a long time.

My wife has an R65LS, it's a bit of a "gutless wonder", but the thing sure is popular.

[boxermaf]

Be patient and apply the WD-40 liberally in and around the gas cap, and down in the lock mechanism let it work in there. Many carb cleaners that are good at removing varnish can also remove paint, so ya gotta be careful about that. When you think you're ready to try, you might want to try applying some stead upward pressure (pulling straight up on the cap's "handle" as you turn it to unscrew it - sometimes they decide to bit and come out under these conditions if the mechanism is broken or jammed.

Come over and join us at the r65.org forum - you'll find many folks who are very familiar and very helpful with R65s and R45s. I've got an '82 Henna Red R65LS myself. Many parts of these bikes are the same as on the R80/R100, but indeed, there are a number of "unique" bits. One of the unique parts compared to the bigger bikes of the same vintage is that your R65 has a much stiffer/stronger triple tree/fork setup. If one knows how to ride these R65s, you can keep up with or even lead someone on an R100 through the twisties - they are still "cows", but they are pretty nimble little "cows"!

+1 on pulling the tranny back and checking the clutch/lubing the splines - if you don't know the history of this bike - or if it has been sitting in storage for years, you really want to do this before you start putting a few hundred miles on her. AMHIK.... Check and change all the oils and oil filter - the condition of the oil can tell you alot - if you've got the dreaded " coffee &creamer" thing happening when you drain the oil out of the transmission, then water has gotten in their and you may have some rust/bearing issues to contend with at some point. If there is a little but of fuzzy stuff on the transmission drain plug, that is "normal" metal, but if you feel "chunks" of metal on the plug or see chunks in the drained oil, that will tell you something else.

I wouldn't bother to do a compression check until you at least know that the valves are adjusted properly. then again, if it has been sitting for long, the rings may be stuck or goodness knows what. IF the valves are in spec, with the carbs off the boots you should see at least 130 PSI or so in each side..

[James.A]

Transmission oil that has been neglected and let to sit for years can turn into a thick. yellowish, foul-smelling material. Drain the transmission and then re-fill it with kerosene and let it soak for several days. If the transmission will not shift because the gear lube is turned into molasses, this should help.

[kentuvman]

Wow and Great Suggestions! Really appreciate the feedback.

I do want to clarify that the gas cap has a lock for a key to be inserted - the key I have will not open the lock - is the answer to still squirt WD40 in? I can't see how that can help me to open the locking gas cap.

I will check out the r65.org site.

Thanks so much! Mine is also Henna Red - it reminds me of a Schwinn Stingray with a big honkin motor mounted on the frame!

Will be interesting to get running and ride. The motor is really dirty on the outside and the cylinder fins look ratty - I'm sure I'll figure out how to clean these up.

The carbs will need rebuilding - I know bing sells a kit

thanks again.

[jforgo]

You got one of the good ones. Yours has much more mechanical parts interchangeability with the other sizes, versus some of the oddities specific to 79-80 r65's.
Plus you have the short wheelbase, rather than the bigger 1985 on frame, which makes the bike a lot more fun in the twisties.

[boxermaf]

I'd bring the tank over to a local locksmith to have a try at it - the lock isn't complicated and the locksmith can probably pick it and make you an appropriate key for it. Call him/her first as they may rather come see you in the garage or a parking lot, rather than have you walk in the door of his shop lugging a tankful of gasoline. Sometimes the lock mechanism on these that have sat a long time can get "stuck", and in a pinch, one can sometimes do the trick I mentioned - but it can cause the mechanism to be broken if it isn't already, so it is a bit of a "last gasp" sort of deal. Depends on how critical it is that you have to get into the tank right away or not.

Is it that the key will turn but not mate with the right pins to unlock the cap, or is it that the key won't turn? If it won't turn, I'd still try some WD-40 for a day or two to see if it loosens things up - its cheap to try anyhow.

I had to get a replacement cap for my bike - it still isn't keyed to match the rest of the bike either - I never lock the tank.

[jamesdunn]

I had the same problem. I soaked it with penetrating oil over the course of a week and was finally able to remove the cap. I never lock my cap anymore.

[kentuvman]

I don't think it's the right key - the key that goes into the ignition works only by not putting it in all the way. Locksmith idea sounds good if I can't get it open.

Thanks much!

[kentuvman]

Fellow Airheads,

So far, I've pulled the carbs and they are very dirty. Carb overhaul not at the top of my priority list.

Today I drained all fluids in +18 MN weather (yuk). After several trips in and out of the mudroom to run hot water over my hands to unfreeze them I did add new gear oil to Final Drive and Drive Shaft reservoirs.

I did drain the engine oil and although black did not see any metal. The plugs look very good . I was able to get them out with the help of a long pipe for leverage. There is something to be said for using anti-seize! Also something to be said about maintaining your bike!

I pulled one of the valve covers on the starboard side to have a look and mostly looks good except where some water or moisture must have run down the carb and entered from it sitting outdoors (before I bought her) - it's a good thing the wheels are anodized and the bike has paint 'cause I don't see any rust other than gunky carbs.

I received a suggestion to pour Kerosene in the tranny case and let it sit for a few days but when I did (I pulled the plastic plug to the right of the dipstick) the kerosene quickly seeped thru the pan gasket onto my garage floor - am I missing something? I'll know better tomorrow when I pick up the Clymer book on hold at the library.

With all this said, I would like to see if I can get things moving w/out tearing this thing apart - I'm guessing the engine is good by the looks of plugs, oil filter and oil. So should or shouldn't the engine turn with the plugs out when I rotate the rear wheel? If the drive shaft is stuck would prevent the engine from turning?

Please excuse me if I'm sounding naive - I've had chain drive bikes all my life except for my K75 which I bought in good running shape. The entry point for acquiring this R65LS was attractive, but my immediate goal is to get her running before evaluating whether to go any further financially.

From what I've read online the engine and tranny seem pretty bulletproof.

Any airhead wisdom is appreciated. Thank you.

Ken in MN

[20774]

I received a suggestion to pour Kerosene in the tranny case and let it sit for a few days but when I did (I pulled the plastic plug to the right of the dipstick) the kerosene quickly seeped thru the pan gasket onto my garage floor - am I missing something? I'll know better tomorrow when I pick up the Clymer book on hold at the library.

Ouch...that plastic plug covers up the view port to the timing marks. If you did that, you poured kerosene into the clutch area. It will run out to the floor...hope you didn't get too much in there and now it's affected or ruined the clutch. The fill plug to the tranny is much lower than that plastic plug.

So should or shouldn't the engine turn with the plugs out when I rotate the rear wheel? If the drive shaft is stuck would prevent the engine from turning?

Yes it should turn if the bike is in gear and the rest of the drive train is working OK. Does the rear wheel not even turn? Of does it turn but the engine doesn't turn with it? Check the situation with the tranny.

[kentuvman]

Hi Kurt,

Thanks for your reply - no the rear wheel does not turn. It did turn when I first brought it home but only with the clutch lever pulled in - it doesn't turn now.

Any suggestions?

[20774]

Thanks for your reply - no the rear wheel does not turn. It did turn when I first brought it home but only with the clutch lever pulled in - it doesn't turn now.

Well, by pulling the clutch lever in, that seems to indicate that the clutch was working and that the rest of the drivetrain was hooked up and not stuck.

With the clutch lever out and the tranny in neutral, you should be able to turn the rear wheel freely.

With the clutch lever out and the tranny in gear, you should be able to turn the rear wheel even with the spark plugs in, but you would be working against the compression. With the spark plugs out, it's a lot easier, but you're still working against the pistons and rods as they go round and round.

If turning the wheel was doable before the kerosene in the timing hole (I'm still assuming that was done) but not now, then it's likely that the kerosene has done something to the clutch and possibly bound things up.

Just guessing...

[kentuvman]

I couldn't turn the wheel before putting in the K. Also the shift lever seems frozen.

Is there a link that shows the fill hole for the transmission fluid?

I did remove the Allen head from the left side case and the transmission fluid that was in there did come out - it was pretty discolored. But when I removed the plug beneath the transmission (not the oil plug) nothing came out. I'm unclear where the fill hole is.

[kentuvman]

If the transmission were locked up, then the engine would not turn, correct?

[boxermaf]

The "Allen head" bolt that is on the side of the transmission just behind the shift linkage IS the "fill hole" for the transmission. You need to use a flexible-end funnel to pour in the proper gearbox oil until it comes up to the bottom of the threads in that fill hole. The transmission drain is a hex head bolt on the underside of the transmission, and it has a magnet in it to collect any metallic particles worn from the transmission innards.
A slight coating of "fuzzy" feeling paste on the drain plug is really very tiny metal particles and is normal. If there are "chunks" or shards/slivers of metal on it then something is in the process of breaking. As with most maintenance on these bikes - it is all meant to be done with the bike on its centerstand and level.

If the transmission oil came out looking like coffee with cream in it (tan colored or with streaks of white) then water got into the transmission - probably through the speedometer cable grommet and you should do the kerosene thing with the transmission.

Before you go any further, I'd strongly suggest getting a Clymer and/or Haynes manual to help you with working on this bike. I'm pretty sure that you've contaminated the clutch with the kerosene and will now have to take the transmission off and clean things out in there, as well as replace at least the clutch friction disk. On the "plus" side, you'll be able to get in and inspect things, and clean/lube the transmission input shaft splines while you are at it - which I'd strongly recommend that you do on a bike that has been sitting for long periods and not maintained.

So, where are you now - will the rear wheel turn with the clutch lever pulled in? If not, maybe the clutch disk is now stuck, or maybe things in the transmission aren't lined up quite right at the moment. Before you do too much spinning around of things - make sure that you've got the proper oil in the gearbox! You can pull the spark plugs out, remove one valve cover and try to turn the rear wheel and see if you notice the valves open/close, which would indicate the gearbox is in gear and the whole drive train is connected. You may have to turn things a bit along with pulling in the clutch lever and working the gear shift lever to try to get the gearbox back into neutral.

The above process (turning rear wheel with gearbox in 2nd or 3rd gear with plugs out and valve covers off) is the basic step for adjusting your valve clearances - one does this and looks for the valve movements and looks in the flywheel timing/inspection hole (not kerosene tank ;-) for the top dead center mark. So, this is a process to familiarize yourself with anyhow !

[kentuvman]

You said: The "Allen head" bolt that is on the side of the transmission just behind the shift linkage IS the "fill hole" for the transmission. You need to use a flexible-end funnel to pour in the proper gearbox oil until it comes up to the bottom of the threads in that fill hole. The transmission drain is a hex head

Here's what happened - I removed the hex head drain plug under the transmission and ZERO fluid came out. I removed the allen head bolt and it alll came out and looked pretty funky.

I'll continue taking it a little slower and read the book and probably will get someone to help me remove the tranny. I'm guessing things are just stuck and gunked up from water getting in through the speedo hole which is exposed 'cause the cable was dangling when I bought her.

What is life w/out a few projects? I do have a good gut level feeling about her. Will keep y'all posted. Thanks so much!

[kentuvman]

I woke up with a flash of knowledge - most definitely water is in the tranny case. Being a pvt. pilot, water is heavier than oil and gas. So why the transmission oil came out of the fill plug (on top) is because there is frozen water at the bottom of the tranny case.

I will put some kerosene in and let it sit - I think when we get above zero for a few days it should "unlock." I'll still pull the case back to inspect, lube clutch input shaft and evaluate the clutch friction plate. Will definitely wait for some warmer weather! Feeling like I might be on a good track - at least for now.

[20774]

So why the transmission oil came out of the fill plug (on top) is because there is frozen water at the bottom of the tranny case.

Ahhh, the realities of living in the Land of 10K Lakes....makes sense now. I guess that's the reason that I only visit the Twin Cities during the warmer times of the year. :dance

[kentuvman]

Upside is we got a bunch of snow Friday and got to go snowmobiling Saturday - which is a lot like riding :wave

[boxermaf]

When I re-read your post and you mentioned that it was 18F where you were working on the bike, I suspected that you had ice in the transmission - sounds like there is probably about an inch of water ice in there, hmmm. Hopefully you'll be able to get it in a warmer spot, or the spring time weather will start to come soon so you can melt that out and let it run out through the drain hole. You'll definitely want to try to fill the transmission up with kerosene after and let her soak for a bit, and keep your fingers crossed. How long was the bike sitting outdoors before you got it? You might have an expensive transmission rebuild in your future, but we'll all cross our fingers for you that she'll be OK after a kero-clean-out and fill up with good oil.

Add to you list to get a replacement speedometer cable boot/grommet that coes on the end of the cable drive where it goes into the transmission. When you replace it, pack in some dielectric grease or some regular grease to try to keep water from getting in there again.

[kentuvman]

Thanks for the suggestion - we'll see where we go and hope for the best! I'll wait to drain the water out before putting in the kerosene. I'm thiking that a locked up transmission would prevent the engine from turning when spinning the rear wheel.

Thank you again. And I will buy the new cable but want to uncover the major stuff first!

[kentuvman]

Boxermaf - who do you buy your airhead parts from - new parts. Thx.