'73 R75/5 - To Cafe, Or Not To Cafe

[moshe_levy]

I have had a long, strange saga with my 1973 R75/5 LWB, my first BMW. Here's the short version:

1) Purchased July 2003, and promptly disassembled for a frame-up resotration
2) Several months pass, at which time I buy tons of new parts for said restoration
3) Get accepted to NYU for grad school, and go through a divorce

You can guess the rest - it sat on a shelf disassembled until now. But I've started back up again. The details are

here http://www.mklsportster.com/r75mainpage.htm

So now, I'm agonizing over whether to cafe it or restore it to near stock shape. The way I figure it, if I cafe it mildly - meaning some clubman bars and a Knoscher-relica tail section, I can always easily go back to stock. I've got all these parts, including a shorty front fender, in my collection already. I can send the stock and the cafe parts out to paint at once, and have everything on hand should I ever need to revert back to stock.

I'm torn because I do love the look of cafe /5 bikes, but at the same time, love the look of a nice clean stock one as well. I'm on my way to Tom Cutter's today to see a recent R100S he restored - figured it might give me some additional ideas. Any advice appreciated.

-MKL

[vanzen]

...
So now, I'm agonizing over whether to cafe it or restore it to near stock shape. MKL

Some will extoll the virtues of a pure stock restoration,
make claims about resale value,
and tell you that an old /5 deserves nothing less.

Or you can click on my avatar and see a hundred examples of "caff'd" /5s,
examples of owners who chose to pursue a personal vision of what a BMW could be.

Both positions are valid, neither is "right" or "wrong",
you've got just 2 options – and ultimately, that choice is yours to make.

[88bmwJeff]

I like the look of the "toaster" bikes, and if it were mine, I'd probably do a stock resto. But, my opinion doesn't matter, since it's your bike and you'll be the one riding it. As Vanzen said, the choice is yours. You need to figure out what you want to ride.

[rogermansfield]

You want a cafe'. Get what you want. It can't be that big of a deal to convert it back if you have the parts. You'll be happy!

[commando74]

My advice would be that if you do a cafe project, make it a mild one that can go back to stock fairly quickly. I have one just like yours, in the process of rebuilding. I was gonna do a bunch of things to it, but as someone pointed out to me, a /5 is a pretty bike, and easily sold if in nice condition. If you want something with more cafe go, then youcan sell it for something thats a lot better around corners. Just my thought. I admit, though, that sometimes I still get that cafe bug anyway......!

[8ninety8]

I too would suggest riding a bike that you want to ride. Modify it to suit yourself. Life is too short to worry about getting optimum bucks when selling it later.

I didn't like the way my bike handled or how the motor felt when I first bought it. So the mods were made. After I'm gone I don't care if the next dude likes it. When I grab a handful of throttle I want the damn thing to take off and rack out to the redline. When it's tipped over in a corner I want a firm suspension. When braking, I want want to feel some G's. Stock didn't make the grade.

Something learned over a period of time is that there are not crowds of appreciative people cheering as we speed by on our BMWs. We all tend to live within our imaginations. Suit yourself, frankly, no one else really gives a d---m. IMHO.

[jeremell]

Cafe it! I love those bikes, and for me, a '73 R75 cafe racer would actually have more value than a stock bike.

[kstoo]

Something learned over a period of time is that there are not crowds of appreciative people cheering as we speed by on our BMWs. .

What?!?!?!!???

Tell me it aint so!!

:cry

[orbitangel]

...as we speed by on our BMWs.

Speed? HUH?

Speaking strictly for myself, my decrepit, clunky old RS will barely get out of its own way. Poor, poor, pitiful me...

[shire2000]

Myself, I prefer to ride my bikes the way the designers made them. Well, pretty close to that anyway.

But that being said, You are the one that is going to be riding it. so do what ya gotta do to make it yours. If a full blown cafe is what you want, go for it. It's your bike and nobody should tell you how you should set up your bike.

If you want to put on ape hangers, rake the front end 14 inches and leather fringe everywhere, go for it. I actually saw an R75/5 done like that in Australia. I wish I had taken a picture.

Or you could do something like this Danish guy did. http://www.rolf-blenn.de/chopper/

Whatever floats your boat or turns your crank. Just have fun with it and ride.

:ca

[moshe_levy]

Well, I think I'm going to do a mild cafe, and send the stock parts out for paint and polish at the same time. That way, if I ever need to switch back, I can. Plan to keep this one forever, so might as well so what I will with it.

-MKL

[PMonk]

now has 37289 miles

[crazydrummerdude]

now has 37289 miles

You saying cafe'd bikes don't get ridden?

[lkchris]

This debate starts at deciding between Euro bars and USA bars.

You're 90% the way to a "cafe" bike when you install the Euro bars.

[barryg]

Euro bars it's a cafe, USA bars it's a bobber. :brow

[8ninety8]

When sitting on the BMW all day and seeing up ahead another bike, especially on the slab, wick it up a bit, pretend I'm fishing, sort of reel the guy in. Little by little, and if it's a different make, just when overtaking, grab the thottle wide open making the pass, speeding by. Every BMW rider does this intuitively, no?

As for the cafe question, the Euro bars would be my choice. With the stock S fairing it puts the rider's head and shoulders in the air foil position while keeping the rider aware of speed through air pressure. The RS fairing always gave me a false sense of security. I guess there are bikes that look sort of cafe, and then others that are pure cafe. Pure cafe is a head turner, no doubt, would likely bring a few cheers.

[vanzen]

This debate starts at deciding between Euro bars and USA bars.

You're 90% the way to a "cafe" bike when you install the Euro bars.



USA bars ?
a half-fast concession to the marketplace.

USA bars don't BELONG on any BMW !*







*before the protracted speeches marked by intemperate, vituperative, or harshly censorious language begin –
I am, of course, being facetious, albeit true to my personal preference.

[crazydrummerdude]

Vanzen; what ever happened to your airhead project? So far, it looks like it puts the 'racer' in 'cafe racer.'

[PMonk]

You saying cafe'd bikes don't get ridden?

I was referring to this exact, particular motorcycle. Seeing as how much fun I am having with it.

[moshe_levy]

I was referring to this exact, particular motorcycle. Seeing as how much fun I am having with it.


Hey!

Is that my former R90/6?? Wow! If it is, you've really done a great job with it. Let me know....

-MKL

[PMonk]

That was yours.

I am kinda recreating my first bmw with the wixom's and smaller windshield.
Took me a little time to work the bugs out but it really rides and runs great now.

I originally thought it would be mostly for short rides and bmw rallies, but I am having too much fun riding it. Seat is going to Rick Mayer in February, I am toying with a ride to Alaska or maybe farthest 4 corners of USA. We'll see.

Post some pics of your Toaster so we can keep up with the progress.

[tourunigo]

I am in the same sort of struggle with my /5. I love the Cafe look etc but Mary looks at the idea and says "ok, where do I sit?" Maybe I need a 'convertable' Cafe (yes I just made that name up) whereby we can have both. Is that really possible? Looking forward to reading the experiences of others. -Bob

[moshe_levy]

That was yours.

Awesome! Glad to see you're enjoying it. My crude Toaster Retoration page hasn't been updated in a month, but here's what's there so far: http://www.mklsportster.com/r75mainpage.htm January has seen me plucking down another $1k in parts for the upcoming rebuild. Tom Cutter totally disassembled my engine and now I'm figuring out how to clean it best. Nothing done yet with painting, but lots of boxes arriving at the door every day with new goodies. I'll update soon.

-MKL

[orbitangel]

USA bars ?
a half-fast concession to the marketplace.

USA bars don't BELONG on any BMW !*







*before the protracted speeches marked by intemperate, vituperative, or harshly censorious language begin –
I am, of course, being facetious, albeit true to my personal preference.

I wanted to say this - but I hesitated.

Now that it has been correctly stated, I will SECOND that emotion!

As far as I'm concerned, they may as well be Ape Hangers!

[rogermansfield]

The "removal of the headlight shell" section is exactly how I feel about doing so for my new fairing. I think I'll just take some photos and notes and go for it. Thanks for posting this!

[lkchris]

"USA bars" was the term used in the 1970s to describe the bars fitted to about 90% of the BMWs sold in the USA. They are lots smaller than the bars later fitted to the R100RT, but are nevertheless a completely traditional bar for older Airheads.

Sorry some of you newbees needed to show your ignorance

[orbitangel]

Sorry some of you newbees needed to show your ignorance

Yup! That's me, a newbie. MOA 18876

I may be ignorant but it looks to me like you're the newbie.

Have a nice day.

[rinty]

Orbitangel:

My apologies to you, for the rest of the group here, for that remark. What's behind it, is Kent doesn't like anyone "changing" airhead frames.

[orbitangel]

Orbitangel:

My apologies to you, for the rest of the group here, for that remark. What's behind it, is Chris doesn't like anyone "changing" airhead frames.

Rinty,

I can't quite figure out why you're the one apolgizing for somebody else's thoughtless remark but, in the spirit of comradeship, I will certainly accept it.

I think we can all "agree to disagree" in an amicable fashion.

Thanks for stepping up to the plate.

Orbitangel - BMWMOA 18876

[sgborgstrom]

It's an endless debate, with the extremes being don't change anything and do what ever it takes to achieve your vision. The argument isn't limited to BMWs either, my current project is an old bronco, most of which have had the rear wheel wells chopped out at some point to accomodate larger tires. Now there is a growing demand for "uncut" versions and lots of people are welding in new quarter panels to replace the missing pieces. My point being that taste changes over the years; "cafe" bikes are hot right now, who knows what tomorrow will bring?

My own sympathies are in the tread lightly camp. They aren't making any more /5s and a sporty looking cafe-style bike can be achieved with bolt-on parts that will allow a return to stock fairly easily so why do anything permanent?

Just MHO

[rinty]

I can't quite figure out...Orbitangel

Thank you, but the reason is, elsewhere in this Forum we're putting up endless posts on how to build up MOA's membership base. The Forum is a big part of building up that base. In this thread, you, a newer Forum member, are asking good questions about an interesting project, and get jumped on by somebody who's been around longer. The result may be that we lose you as a member, which we don't want to see happen.

[vanzen]

I would be hesitant to tear into a complete if un-restored example of an R75/5.
My opinion ... for these reasons:

The /5s are becoming old and rare to that point where value "as stock" is climbing.
Consequently, one could "clean-up" the bike, sell it, and start with a (cheaper and more available) post /7 – and have some cash in hand for parts & services.

A /5 will be less suited to performance improvement vs the later bikes.
As we all know, BMW introduced small changes to virtually every model year in order to improve the performance and ride-ability of their production offerings.
Often the cafe goal of "performance" includes retrofitting a bike with increased displacement, light flywheel, improved brakes, better chassis components ...
note that all these items were addressed by the factory at some later date.
Consequently, a newer model, and esp one from 1981 or later, gives the cafe builder a significant "head-start".


To others:
The choice of 'caffeinating' an old Type-247 is not so much the "pursuit of pure performance" as it is the "pursuit of a personal passion".
It will be my suggestion that we each DEFINE that passion for ourselves – and chase it with all our heart and soul.

Needless to say, any 600cc repli-racer of near contemporary vintage would fill that "pure-performance cup" to overflowing – and do it cheaper.
In my case, a 2007 R1200S does the job MOST satisfactorily, if not as inexpensively ... but then, I've been sorta stuck on BMW for some 30+ years.

The visions and dreams of youth don't fade easily in the memory of this "child born of the fossil fuel generation"
who's formative years in Detroit, the "Motor City", were filled with "build it your way" 3-in-1 AMT model car kits, Hot-Rod Magazine, Smokey Yunick, Burt Munro, Ed Roth ...
and Detroit Dragway inhabited by the likes of Roger Lindamood's "Color Me Gone", Don "The Snake" Prudhomme's "Snake Charmer", and Bob Tindle's "Orange Crate".
This is my frame of reference, my formative social circumstances, that culminate not only in a passion for performance,
but a passion and celebration of those times.
Times marked by the efforts of 'out-of-the-box renegade individuals' adept at machining skills and fueled with the "Need 4 Speed" who could make an impact, a difference,
and in fact, turn the face of the corporate giants to look their way, take heed, and respond in kind.

I am far beyond a mere fondness or fascination for machines, engineering, the capabilities AND the potential – I'll get my hands dirty.
And, in my case, an introduction to BMW motorcycles changed my life in quite significant ways.
Buying my first BMW in the mid 1970s was a turning point –
from riding / buying / building / selling Harley Davidson Sportster hot-rod-race customs
to running an R68 on the streets and traveling the country on a /5 and then a /7... an R100RS, a K1, and now an R1200S.
Traveling on a 1971 R75/5, not coincidentally, provided me the means and interest for my introduction to the sport of motorcycle road-racing as a spectator.
This was the era of the "BATTLE of the TWINS".
The sound of 4-stroke Ducatis, Nortons, Triumphs, Moto Guzzis, and Harley XR750s was MUSIC to my ears, the best of music – and remains so to this very day.
And on those tracks at that time were BMWs campaigned by the likes of San Jose BMW, bikes re-FRAMED by Rob North, breathed upon in the spirit if not the very breath of Udo Gietl,
ridden by the masters: Pridmore, McLaughlin ...
AND THE STODGY OLD BIKES KNOWN FOR THEIR PINSTRIPED SUITS WERE COMPETITIVE !
Competitive ONLY by virtue of the hot-rod mentality and creativity, the blood, sweat and effort of those demented individuals
determined to transform the "old man's touring bike" into something it surely was never intended.

Nostalgic to be sure, but still a valid if emotive climate that inclines me to sing the praises of those times – and enjoy the experience of it on a personal level.
An experience who's joy and fulfillment is about the process, "the hands-on doing of it" – the act and action of designing, engineering, and bringing to reality,
to hold in my hand a tangible product of my own relative vision of insanity,
to fit this or that "bit" or "part" on the bike and find that it works well and improves the status quo ...
or needs more improvement ... I'm happy to do it.

Subsequently, it becomes quite meaningless to entertain accusations that the "bit-piece" is not stock,
ruins the original concept of corporate intent,
has been done before in other ways by other people,
or is now surpassed in function by the production efforts of contemporary corporate endeavor ...
these objections are missing the mark – COMPLETELY.

Want to concours restore that /5 ? – pursue your passion.
Want to ride it till it returns to the ground as rust ? – pursue your passion.
Want it caff'd ? – pursue your passion.

Want to discourage another rider's dreams ?
I'll draw that line: a BMW is just an assemblage of steel and rubber and nuts and bolts, just a machine, ... nothing more.
There is no "right or wrong" here, just a choice – PURSUE YOUR PASSION !

[orbitangel]

...The result may be that we lose you as a member, which we don't want to see happen.

Thanks, and I do appreciate the consideration.

Lose me as a member? NEVER! Not to worry.

First, I am not that thin-skinned.

Second, I am having WAY too much fun here.

Third, Ikchris and I are best pals, even though we haven't met yet. We BOTH love bikes and we both love BMWs. Besides, I used to live in the "Land of Enchantment."

Hey, we are all here because we share a common passion, though not necessarily the same precise flavor - (vanzen said it very well.)

We can all get a little cranky sometimes, myself included.
No harm, no foul! I don't stay mad at ANYBODY without a damned good reason. :bikes

orbitangel