spline lube composition (considering alternative)

[jobee58]

I'm doing the final drive/drive shaft spline lube (and may get brave enough to tackle clutch spline lube). I'm in Denmark and I've come accross a large retail store called Biltema, which sells a whole lot of stuff, including a wide assortment of lubricants. Anyhow, they have two products which look like they may be applicable. One has is lithium based, rated for high temps, heavy loads, heavy pressure, and has 9% molybdenum disulfide. The other is similar (actually called "U-joint lubricant", rated suitable for all the same stuff, and has 3% molybdenum disulfide. My question is, are either of these suitable for the application, or should I really go with one of the specified lubricants in the manual(or Honday 60 Moly)? This isn't about money, it's about ease of acquisition. Thanks in advance.

[98lee]

The Honda Moly 60 is 60%Molybdenum disulfide. You need that much for the extreme pressure sliding action of the splines.

It should be easy to find at any Honda motorcycle dealer.


:dance :dance :dance

[hhshort]

In 1996 I took my 85 K100RT to a dealer for spine lube. After the job was completed I asked what was used as a lube. The answer was White Lithium, which startled me but he is the expert. Then I forgot about it. This winter, 12years and 75k miles later, I decide that it is time to service the splines even though the bike is shifting as nicely as ever.

I followed the Tribal rules and bought a tube of Honda Moly 60. (The parts man has no idea but his mechanic showed him what we need and he was surpised to find he had it in stock). I mixed a lifetime supply of Pauls secret formula (50% moly 60 and 50% ep grease)

I pulled the drive shaft and wondered what the white stuff was around the splines. It is dark but well lubed inside the splines. I pulled the tranny and there is white stuff around the splines of the clutch plate. Again the shaft and splines inside the clutch is well lubed and in good shape.. Now I remember what the white stuff is. It's white lube. "I GUESS IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS IT IS LUBED" I did use the secret formula even though the white lube did a good job.

I also did a spline lube on a 85 K100 with 60k total. It is the tug for a EML conversion. It was not shifting down smoothly. There wasn't a trace of a lube present on the shaft or splines. The splines did appear to me to be in good shape. Just dirty and rusty. If any one wants to discuss pulling the tranny on an EML rig I'm open.

I think any moly content is helpful. The word is 30% but I think that rust protection is probably more inportant. But who am I to say. I am a Heretic and my trial will be organized as so as I push the reply button. Harold In Kansas

[BobZ]

This winter, 12years and 75k miles later, I decide that it is time to service the splines even though the bike is shifting as nicely as ever.

I'm thinking the mileage is the key. You ride your bike a lot. I ride both my K and R on alternating weeks, maybe 4-5k per year each.

The K was opened up after 60k miles and looked fine. Moist with grease, no wear or rust. The PO had regular BMW service at proper intervals, but there was no mention of spline lubes in the service records.

R bike has been apart twice. Same thing, no wear, no rust. Has me thinking that regular riding is the best thing you can do for your bike.

[nrpetersen]

It isn't technically rust guys - it is fretting corrosion from the spline surfaces rubbing microscopically against each other under high load, once per revolution.

[PGlaves]

I'm doing the final drive/drive shaft spline lube (and may get brave enough to tackle clutch spline lube). I'm in Denmark and I've come accross a large retail store called Biltema, which sells a whole lot of stuff, including a wide assortment of lubricants. Anyhow, they have two products which look like they may be applicable. One has is lithium based, rated for high temps, heavy loads, heavy pressure, and has 9% molybdenum disulfide. The other is similar (actually called "U-joint lubricant", rated suitable for all the same stuff, and has 3% molybdenum disulfide. My question is, are either of these suitable for the application, or should I really go with one of the specified lubricants in the manual(or Honday 60 Moly)? This isn't about money, it's about ease of acquisition. Thanks in advance.

I don't think 60% is necessary. I have been accurately quoted regarding my use of a mix of lithium based moly grease at about 3% and a moly past at either 50% or 60% moly. Mixing the two together gives me a lube with something around 25% to 30% moly by volume = which has been found to be adequate for clutches at 40 to 50K intervals and driveshafts at 20K intervals on K75/100 bikes.

I can't say the 9% stuff isn't adequate. The extreme pressure properties and rating is the most important. The moly content contributes to that but isn't the controlling factor - it is the EP rating that counts the most, followed by the adherence characteristics. If it doesn't stay put it doesn't work.

[jobee58]

I'm actually trying to hunt down Honda Moly 60. Over here in Europe it's proving to be a challenge. I've contacted several of the larger Honda dealers in my area of Denmark, and they're all like, "We don't have it, what is it anyway?" I just found a p/n for it on the web and have re-emailed these folks to see if it can be ordered.

Another wrinkle... My brother in law over here spent time doing work on Mercedes trucks. They used copper paste for all their heavy assembly (high heat, high load components). He's swearing up and down that the copper past is the stuff for mating all metal components and that it has the best heat dispersion capabilities.

Anyhow, I'm over here where MC's are hideously expensive to own and operate, so I need to take good care of what I have. I have my much-loved K100 LT and I want to "do the right thing" so it will last a very long time. I'm also just wading in to this level of DIY, so that's the reason for the question. I am most happy to get the most highly recommended product, but it's proven to be far more difficult than I would have imagined.

Thanks to all.

[jobee58]

I decided to order some spline lube from the BMW Dealer over here. I was sent a plain white tube with a BMW label & bar code affixed. Grease looks white and the bill is for the equivalent of 40 USD. I'd like to make sure I'm not going to pay all outdoors for what turns out to be cheap lithium grease. Part number on the tube is 07559062476 and on the Max BMW site it's named as: NLASTAB. GREASE 100G. I'm wondering if the STAB in this descriptor is the Staburags which is listed in the repair books. Any input from someone familiar with the product would be appreciated. Thank you

[hhshort]

I am waiting with baited breath for someone to answer this one. Because it sure sounds like the stuff that a dealer put in my K100RT that worked well for 12 years and 75000 miles. Harold the Heretic in Kansas

[tvguy]

The Honda Moly paste is used for Goldwing etc. shaft splines if you ask the parts guy for the grease they use in the shop they will find it for you. The part number under the bar code is 08734-0001. It's about $9 US for a tube.


I thought the BMW spline lube was Red?

[jobee58]

I thought the BMW spline lube was Red?

So did I, but this stuff is white.

[nrpetersen]

I beleive there was an earlier BMW spline lube that was incorrectly spec'd by BMW a few years ago, and was only a lilthium grease, and was white. I don't know what the present BMW grease is.

I'd go with the Honda moly grease. Moly grease has to be pastey and almost black to satisfy me.

[Kayseventyfive]

Moly grease has to be pastey and almost black to satisfy me.

Spent my life in airline maint, and never saw a moly grease that was not black or dark gray.

[nrpetersen]

Spent my life in airline maint, and never saw a moly grease that was not black or dark gray. ...and you can't wash it off your hands afterwards.

[roadcrave]

Ya and in the navy or moly grease glows in the dark...matthew

[PHMarvin]

Hi, Matthew,

Ya and in the navy or moly grease glows in the dark...matthew

It depends on where it's been!

Ride Safe,
Phil Marvin - El Paso, TX
'95 K75RT
'94 K75A/3
ex - USS Nathan Hale SSB(N) 623(G)

[19991100RT]

As a Master Millwright rule # 1 is NEVER mix your greases. I read above that some are mixing a "recipe" and by the sounds of it, it is working for them. Mixing greases (especially from two manufacterers) is really russian roulette. I've seen it done in bearings, worm gears and shafts and the amount of wear, damage and sintering was beyond belief.
Now, keep in mind that I am a new BMW owner (haven't even riden my R1100RT yet) but my two cents is that it's all about the alignment pins in the Trans. body and engine. Time and time again what I read (and some pics here) indicate to me that there is definately a missalignment problem and it's most likely from the factory castings which is why some have the problem and some don't.
How big of a job is this lube of the splines ? Is there a way to visually check it without pulling the tranny?

[tvguy]

[QUOTE]How big of a job is this lube of the splines ? Is there a way to visually check it without pulling the tranny?/QUOTE]

Pretty big for a shade tree wrench like me. I've watched the pro BMW techs pull the trans back enough to reach up to the splines with a long brush. But when I did my own I ended up just pulling the transmission off. It's not a technically challenging job just tedious (you have to take off nearly the entire rear half of the bike, or at least I did :D ).

Cheers