F800ST vs. R1150R

[mlucas1]

Happy Holidays to All!

I currently have an R1150R that I like. It's my first BMW, just came back to riding at age 57.

Don't laugh but I hadn't ridden since I was 18 when I had a Honda 300 Dream. I know, it was a dog but I didn't know any better.

So now I have the R1150R and sometimes it just seems like a lot of work to ride, top heavy and the ABS brakes are really grabby. On the other hand on the highway sometimes it just seems magical the way it handles and corners.

So has anyone had both the 1150R and the F800ST. From what I've read the 800ST sounds like it would be easier to ride.

Any comments would be appreciated, even about the 300 Dream.

Mark

[mlucas1]

OK, there must be some 800ST riders that ride or rode BMWs before the 800ST.

I know you folks all ate too much already today but get up from your nap and give me your opinions.

Thanks and Merry Christmas.

Damm, I wish it was April and sunny!

Mark in Iowa

[rbryson]

Come on 800 folks. I too am interested. I have an R90/6 and am thinking of selling it for a more modern and ride-able (light, smooth, and fast) bike which I have heard the 800's are. We would appreciate owners sharing their knowledge.

[mervingry]

I'm also new to riding. Started on a 650 Yamaha V-Star cruiser that I bought new in September 2006. Loved the bike - suited all my needs. In 2007, I explored the idea of purchasing a bike that would ultimately suit all my needs. After lots of research, I settled on the F800ST, which I purchased new in April 2008. I was concerned that it might be too much bike for me. I was very wrong. What a bike. Very user friendly. NO regrets whatsoever. Light, agile, fast. Low center of gravity. Nice torque curve - unlike the Japanese crouch rockets.

[pffog]

Got to ride an 800ST in Europe last year, LOVE the bike. My current bike here in the states is an R1100S, and I rode R12GS, R12R, R1150R, and others in Europe, and when it came time to chose a bike for a 2 week solo ride into Switzerland and France I chose the 800st over the others. May very well be my next BMW if I don't buy the 800GS instead.

BTW, I am 6'1" and 215 lbs, and the 800 st fit well, handled great and gets PHENOMENAL fuel mileage even when riding the snot out of it, abd rode 2 up with the wife for a day no problem.

Against an R1150, no contest in my opinion.

[Kevin]

But I may be prejudiced. I luv mine.

Mark, what type of riding do you do? Passenger? What floats your boat esthetically? That could ultimately decide what's better for you.

I've only ridden the R1150R on a test ride at Daytona years back and several other Beemers. Nice grunt and surprisingly good handling. But I can tell you the 800ST is the best balanced and easiest to handle BMW I've encountered. Surprisingly nice mid range and low end and the belt drive makes for a smooth driveline. If you're long legged I could see the peg position being a bit cramped (but there're after mkt remedies for that). I'm vertically challenged so the light weight and low seat option works great for me.

It's a lightweight SportTourer in the true sense of that description and great for commutes and short rides as well.

Some recall gremlins but seems BMW has them solved. Check out http://f800riders.org/forum/ as well.

[108625]

My wife sold her R1150RS to buy an F800ST and hasn't regret it for a moment.
It is lighter, better balanced, better handling, more responsive, gets better mileage, and has a more comfortable seat. She is much quicker with it through the twisties, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were the faster of the two bikes in a head to head contest.
I've ridden both of her bikes and liked the 800 a lot more, even after a 350 mile day. The seat to peg distance wasn't uncomfortable to me (6' tall), but I've always been comfortable with sporty ergonomics. I definitely agree the seat is better than any stock beemer I've ridden. You'll have to make up your own mind about those last two observations though.

Happy test riding:thumb

[32232]

I had a 2001 R1150R until summer of 2007 when my F800ST arrived.

The ST has far better weather protection and a far smoother engine and transmission. Handling is noticeably superior as well.

The F800 actually makes a few more HP than the R and weighs 100lbs less, so performance is excellent. The gas mileage on the F800 is far superior and usable range from a tank is 400km vs. 300km. My wife also finds the passenger accommodations on the F800 roomier and more comfortable.

I really liked the R1150R, but the F800ST is a better bike all round.

[papasong]

Hi Mark (I'm originally from Des Moines),

I love my 2008 F800ST. But I have never ridden an R1150R, so I can't compare.

800ST seems incredibly responsive. Never feels like a struggle to get it to do what I want.

Best,
Jeff

[FredRydr]

My experience with BMW has been 10 years long, and four bikes wide. I've had an R1100R, an R1150R, my current R1200R (a magnificent bike) and my F800GS. Based upon my experience, it would be not be a good idea to trade your bike for an F800GS in the hopes it would be "better." Instead, keep riding your bike of choice until you are tired of any shortcomings it may have.

Meanwhile, the F800GS will continue to improve pending you making up your mind.

Fred

[stacyboy84]

I can't compare to your R, but I love my F800ST. It's my second BMW after an older airhead. I've put about 10,000 on this past year with no problems, including a 4,600 mile road trip. No complaints. Check out f800riders.org for all the pros and cons. I haven't found anything to fuss about with mine.

[klennop]

I am not exactly what you are looking for but here goes.

I am 5' 11" 180-190lbs.

My current bike is a R1100S and my girlfriend has a F800S. I was debating between the 2 but I ended up on the 1100S.

The F800S has about 7K on it and my R1100S has about 12K on it.

When I sit on the R, the size of it seems to fit me better all around and I feel more comfortable on it. The F after being on my R seems to small for me and I just feel like I am too big for the bike. Plus when I see other riders on the F's some of them look to big for the bike, I noticed that at the Rally in West Bend, WI.

As far as performance between the 2 the R has more HP and Torque but is heavier than the F bikes. I can tell you that there is a big difference in Torque feel between the 2, the R bike just takes the cake on that. The F is a lot smoother than the R though all the way up to redline. My girlfriend is about 70lbs lighter than me so if my bike was still "stock" we would be VERY close in a flat out race, but I think I would take her off the start and also in top end.

Now the weight, wow!! That is huge between the 2, after riding my bike all day and then jumping on hers. The F feels like a mini bike, it just feels like there is nothing there. Now with the good also comes the bad. In the wind the R is a ton more stable where her F is getting blown around. Also the R is a lot more planted on the straights and in the corners but I think that has a lot to do with the different suspensions. I personally like the R feel better. However at the same time the lightness of the F bike let you toss them around in the corners without even breaking a sweat compared to the R. Also the R doesn't dive but the F does when you have to get on the binders.

Also the F you can get with a lot of bells and whistles that my R doesn't have such as a good fuel gauge that tells miles til empty, and miles per gallon(instant and average), instead of just a light that goes on when you have a gallon left. The F can get tire pressure monitors also. So like I said there are some more creature comforts also that come along with the F.

You also have the different motors and drives to consider. I like both shaft and belt and personally don't have pros or cons on either since the F is so new yet. As far as the motors, I like the "jugs" of my R and I think they are easier to do maintenance on compared to the F motors but to each their own on these 2 topics.

I personally wouldn't give in my R1100S for a F800S especially since we have both in the garage now. I like the F at times but overall the R is a better fit for me.

Hope this helps, I have to get back to work but feel free to comment or question anything I have said. Also yes, check out f800riders.org, that is a good site and for my R1100S, I go to Pelican parts.com.

[mlucas1]

Hey everyone, thanks a bunch for all your input. Its good to hear all sides when comparing bikes even if you don't necessarily agree. To me the F800ST does feel quite a bit smaller but that's maybe what I need. I can imagine how the guys that ride the huge Harleys can handle them, esp. a slow speeds and in tight corners.
My 1150R is definately a sweet bike. And I do like the way the front doesn't dive when you break.
Are the brakes as "grabby" on the 800ST? The 1150R's are terrible.
Thanks again.
Mark

[mlucas1]

And Jeff where do you live now. Hopefully somewhere with some nice curvey roads and curvey women for that matter.
Mark

[32232]

The F800 front brakes are strong, and due to the telescopic fork you will notice fork dive compared to the telelever on the R. Not an issue once you get used to it.

[klennop]

Hey everyone, thanks a bunch for all your input. Its good to hear all sides when comparing bikes even if you don't necessarily agree. To me the F800ST does feel quite a bit smaller but that's maybe what I need. I can imagine how the guys that ride the huge Harleys can handle them, esp. a slow speeds and in tight corners.
My 1150R is definately a sweet bike. And I do like the way the front doesn't dive when you break.
Are the brakes as "grabby" on the 800ST? The 1150R's are terrible.
Thanks again.
Mark

Sorry for not seeing this right away.
The big Harleys are easy to handle at high speeds because they don't handle at all, that one was easy to explain! :laugh
At low speeds big HD's maneuver around easily because the seat is really low so you are able to flat foot, it gives you a feel of confidence, now if they could just make a bike that will not roast your crotch at low speeds too!!:laugh :laugh I know about the "parade" feature, whatever to that!!

Now as far as the brakes, I only notice at times that my R is grabby. However my Dads 1150RT is really grabby almost to the point of annoying. At the same time I guess it is something you get used to on the R and you know that when you pull the lever, be prepared to stop! On the F, it doesn't seem to have that feeling at all. However like I said you don't get the dive with the R so maybe the dive of the F cushions some of the grabby feeling also?

I forgot to mention the F we have has a full Wilbers suspension so it is stepped up from OEM. When my girlfriend was first riding it, if she jacked the front brakes in an emergency at slow speeds and it actually bucked her off at least 2 times from the rebound of the shocks. This was fixed by going to a higher weight of oil in the shock, so it still is "bouncy" compared to my R bike but not as bad as originally. The mushy shocks seem to be an issue F800 riders tend to complain about on F800riders.org.

Hope this helps again!

Here is a pic of our bikes, and no we didn't plan on having "matching" bikes, it just turned out that way!:dunno

[FredRydr]

Don't forget that the last oilheads had the servo assisted "power" brakes, if that's what you mean by grabby. I had the first iteration of those on my '02 R1150R, and they did take some getting used to.

Fred

[klennop]

The servos were introduced on the '02 Roadster, and then added to more models over the following years. In 2002, they were about as good as you could expect for a first-year item of such major complexity. My understanding is that BMW continued to improve them as best they could, until their end. I doubt the model of the bike made much difference in that respect.

Fred

[AndyMcLain]

Servo brakes?! On an R1100S Boxer Prep? I have the exact same bike, '04, but no servo brakes. Would like to ask where you got the "tank" side pads?

[klennop]

The servos were introduced on the '02 Roadster, and then added to more models over the following years. In 2002, they were about as good as you could expect for a first-year item of such major complexity. My understanding is that BMW continued to improve them as best they could, until their end. I doubt the model of the bike made much difference in that respect.

Fred

Fred,

How did you edit my post?????? And why did you edit my post?

Was there a server glitch or something and it edited my last post instead of yours?

WEIRD!

I know when the servo brakes were introduced and also discontinued. I can tell you without a doubt that my Dads brakes on his 04 1150RT have a totally different feel than my 04 R1100S and grab on a lot more abruptly. He even took his in to get them checked out after I rode both bikes back to back, we both have OEM pads, etc. I am not sure if it is just the weight difference or what? However I can't compare anything to the R1150R bikes because I have never rode one of those.

[klennop]

Servo brakes?! On an R1100S Boxer Prep? I have the exact same bike, '04, but no servo brakes. Would like to ask where you got the "tank" side pads?

Sorry to get this off topic but I figured I could quickly answer Andy. There are actually a couple different versions of the R1100S in 04. Earlier versions were different such as light models and so weren't the 05 Boxercup Replika's.

If it has ABS in 04, then it has the servo brakes. Also the Replika and Preps have the sport shock, the spring will be yellow and not blue(some people swapped them out). The Replika's also came stock with the Laser Exhaust(the 2 into 1 model).

In 04 you could have the following options:
Boxercup Replika with ABS and Heated Grips and 5.5" rear rim
Boxercup Replika without ABS but with Heated Grips and 5.5" rear rim
Boxercup Replika without ABS and without Heated Grips with 5.5" rear rim

R1100S Prep without ABS without Heated Grips with 5.5" rear rim
R1100S without ABS with Heated Grips with 5.5" rear rim (have seen it!)
R1100S with ABS without Heated Grips with 5.5" rear rim.
R1100S with ABS with Heated Grips without 5.5" rear rim. (Mine)

There are a couple of odd balls in there also that seem to come up here and there but these are the ones I know for sure.

I wanted to switch to the 5.5 inch rear rim on my bike but it is really hard to find a yellow one. Then I thought of having a silver one powder coated to match but BMW made some small changes through out the years that make some of the rear wheels not match up correctly. Plus the wider the rim the slower the turn in and out of turns. I am not at racing caliber yet so the 5" of rim isn't affecting me yet. Plus you can drag your cylinders with either rim!

I don't remember where I got my pads but I think they are CSS. They come with the sides, and one that goes in front of your junk.

If you have any other questions, PM me just so we don't jack this guys thread anymore, OK.

Thanks

[AndyMcLain]

mlucas1, I apologize for my bad manners. I'm fairly new to this but now have the PM function figured out. The brakes on my R1100S are non-ABS non-servo and are very good. I do worry about the reports of oilhead final drive problems but who knows, I may never have one. Did have to replace transmission seals on the clutch side at 12,000. Haven't ridden an 800ST but sat on one today, feels tiny.

[FredRydr]

Fred,

How did you edit my post?????? And why did you edit my post?

Was there a server glitch or something and it edited my last post instead of yours?
klennop,

I only just revisited this thread, and I was doing a double take at that post as well, because it had your name on it. I thought you were quoting me - until I got to your subsequent post. Then it dawned on me that I wasn't seeing things.

This was two days ago so I can't sure of the scenario, but I think it can only have been my fault and not the computer's. I was posting and somehow edited your post instead of posting as a subsequent post. I do apologize.

Fred

[klennop]

Haven't ridden an 800ST but sat on one today, feels tiny.

It is tiny and if it feels tiny you probably look big on it!:laugh I had mentioned that in an earlier post so it is nice to see another person with the same feeling. However did you also notice how much lighter it is? You should take it for a ride and see how you like it compared to your S, then you could come back with a report on it. Who knows you may just be trading in your R for a F!

NAH!!!! We have the best looking 1100S's made in my opinion!:brad

[108625]

Haven't ridden an 800ST but sat on one today, feels tiny.

I guess it's all relative... I'm 6' & 200lbs, and my R1200ST feels fat, it's the porkiest bike I've ever owned and likely ever will. My wife's F800ST feels light and narrow, and better balanced. I'd even consider it a bit "rangy" in length compared to more sporting bikes I've ridden. I've always preferred standards and sport bikes, and will likely go back to one when I find the right deal on the right model.

I don't understand the obsession with size, and how a rider looks on a bike. Can you see yourself on a bike? Just because no one can see me grinning ear to ear inside my full face helmet doesn't take anything away from the feeling.

:bikes

[AndyMcLain]

klennop,

THOUGHT I had the private message (PM) thing worked out. Have sent two. Gotten any?

ANDYMCLAIN

[Acejones]

I like my 03 R1150R. I really wouldn't want a bike much lighter because I don't enjoy being blown around in cross winds when I'm on a two lane road in Mexico. I think the R1150R is well balanced.

[papasong]

And Jeff where do you live now. Hopefully somewhere with some nice curvey roads and curvey women for that matter.
Mark

Hey Mark,

I've been living in the Boston area since the early 80's. I ride up through New Hampshire and Vermont for excellent curvy roads. And I have no complaints about my wife's excellent curves. :)

The 800ST is an awesome bike.

Best,
Jeff

[klennop]

klennop,

THOUGHT I had the private message (PM) thing worked out. Have sent two. Gotten any?

ANDYMCLAIN

I got one of them!

[klennop]

I guess it's all relative... I'm 6' & 200lbs, and my R1200ST feels fat, it's the porkiest bike I've ever owned and likely ever will. My wife's F800ST feels light and narrow, and better balanced. I'd even consider it a bit "rangy" in length compared to more sporting bikes I've ridden. I've always preferred standards and sport bikes, and will likely go back to one when I find the right deal on the right model.

I don't understand the obsession with size, and how a rider looks on a bike. Can you see yourself on a bike? Just because no one can see me grinning ear to ear inside my full face helmet doesn't take anything away from the feeling.

:bikes

I don't think it has that much to do with how you look on a bike. My 1100S just feels better width wise, knee, foot placement compared to the 800S. I also feel like I am towering over the bike, kind of like a clown riding one of those little bikes at a circus. You have to admit you have seen someone that just doesn't look like they fit on a bike and they should have got something bigger. Like these guys!

[lencap]

I own a 2004 R1150R, and extensively rode all versions of the F800 series before deciding. A few things to consider. First, I'm short, just under 5'8", and comfort is a big consideration for me. The ST seemed to fit better, at first. But I modified the R1150R handlebars to be both lower and closer to me using a commercially available part. It made a big difference. I also prefer the more upright R seating position. The ST puts more weight on the wrists - not too bad at first, but gets old during 400 mile days. I then added the small BMW windscreen to the R, and it keeps the air off my chest, kind of like the ST does. I don't like the helmet buffeting, so I'll trim the windscreen down a bit.

You didn't mention which year your R1150R is, but from 2004 on the twin spark plug setup gets rid of the surging problem - another plus for the R model. But the biggest point to me is the constant torque of the R engine, far different from the ST. I typically ride at 4,000 RPMs and I always have a nice torque reserve on tap - it comes in handy in city driving. It also provides a lot of engine braking, useful again in city driving. The ST had far less engine braking.

Add to that the more useful bags on the R, more comfortable ride (at least to me - I like the R suspension setup), more comfortable passenger seat, and the more planted feel on the highway, and the modest extra weight doesn't seem to matter much any more. It did take some time to get used to the shaft torque, but it's no big deal now.

Also, I don't have ABS brakes, so I don't have the grabby feel that the boosted system may create. It is also critical that you change brake fluid regularly in the ABS model or the grabby feeling will get worse.

By the way, I sold my Honda VFR to buy the R1150R. The VFR is often compared to the ST, and many reviews find the ST at least as good or better than the VFR. I don't agree at all - I think the VFR is a far more enjoyable ride, especially at higher RPMs. Some dislike the VFR engine when it moves to 4 valve from 2 valve operation - I think it is great. The stories of over-revving in turns just means that the rider didn't know how to setup for an aggressive turn. With the VFR I wore out the tire "whiskers" in the first 100 miles. I didn't feel that confident cranking the ST over to the limit. The VFR had better lighting, more comfort and better luggage space. I also liked the anniversary colors I had (red/white/blue) more than the BMW ST choices.

Regardless of what you select, you'll get a solid motorcycle. Try them out and decide.

[hobbywhore]

I am looking forward to the new 800R naked model. I now own a 1150R and I love it. I love the looks, performance, comfort. I tried an ST on for size yesterday at the dealer and it does feel small. I guess I've grown accustomed to those big jugs sticking out the sides of the cases. But, from the pictures I've seen, the 800R has the right visuals for me.

A note about grabby ABS: After doing a complete bleed of the brakes and ABS unit, the brakes on my 1150R improved greatly in feel and action.