How has the economy affected your area?

[Oldhway]

I run a small business which I purchased almost 4 years ago. In the four years since, I have worked and invested all I have into growing the business, this year to maintain that level of sales, I have found that I have had to sell at a tighter and tighter margin, and then starting in September we hit a wall. While we are keeping the doors open and the lights on, it's become a challenge. The cash reserves are gone and like most of America, we're just getting by. But we are getting by and I'm grateful for that.

Over the weekend I went into Manchester CT with my wife because she needed some fabric. The Jo'ann's fabric store she was going to is in a large strip mall next to one of the larger shopping malls in the state. In the strip mall, there were at least 5 vacant store fronts that had been filled last time I was there (about 3 months ago) and on the street corners by the large shopping mall there were folks holding up "going out of business, XX% off all merchandise" signs for at least 3 or 4 more stores. It was a real eye opener.

So we have discussed to death the big picture and what is happening in Washington and the stock market and in the big corporations. But how is the economy affecting your area of the country and what are you doing personally to deal with it? I guess it's that over used Wall Street vs. Main Street question but I am curious.

Ps: Please leave the political angle out of it so we can have this discussion without hitting the Doghouse.

[Vagabird]

Things have slowed down here a little, but I haven't noticed any increase in stores going out of business. Wyoming is rich in coal and natural gas, which helps as long as people still need heat and energy and can pay for it. I'm also in a university town, which means that as long as the state has money to keep the university going things should be all right. Where I've noticed it the most is in the organizations that help those who have next to nothing. Donations to the local soup kitchen are down and they are struggling. The free clinic is feeling the pinch. :( Those of us with a little more cushion are still OK so far.

[RJM2096]

We are located in a state capital, so things are not real bad, but one can see evidence of belt tightening. We have had several stores close, including a brand new Starbucks (probably because of McDonalds cutting into their sales).

But all of us are sufferering to the point that retirement may not be possible.

The supporters of the global economy said the United States would be a leader in the global financial industry. I looks like Wall Street was just a leader in a series of fradulent finacial schemes that we will pay for the rest of our lives. What we should learn from this is that we cannot put all of our eggs in a single basket. Corporations are getting too large. These megabusinesses are destroying the American dream. Small businesses get the leftovers or worst, table scraps.

[hobbywhore]

The changes are subtle. I'm going to buy a new car in January, so I have taken notice of dealerships in my area. Inventories are way up. I've noticed a lot of cars available that used to be hard to get. And this Christmas should tell us a lot after its over. I'll be watching the news for statistics from this coming Friday. We're spending Thanksgiving in Tennessee and the local news reported a 50% increase in the number of people coming to get the free Thanksgiving family dinner boxes. Its little signs like this that I'm noticing more and more.

[snoone]

Hey Steve,

There's one thing I can assure you.. The government will not be extending a bailout solution to us like they are doing for financial institutions and I presume eventually the auto industry...

This is our bread and butter time of the year, so I can't tell if there is a difference yet.. Clients are doing a little less but we have more of them it seems..I'm worried about April and beyond...

[26667]

I'm a professional actor. ( my cast-mates would say semi-professional) Successful shows are closing on Broadway, and only the huge hits can remain afloat. They're ok for the moment, but there's no advance. At all. Ad agencies are losing accounts which will translate into fewer jobs for voice-over and on-camera actors. Some of what work there is, now goes to non-union actors. (no Pension and health etc) New shows are having trouble raising initial investments. Many shows employ 50 - 100 other people besides actors; carpenters, electricians, wardrobe and hair people, company managers, box office personnel, and others. Restaurants, parking garages and all the related businesses such as dry cleaners, cobblers and hotels will lose business. For most of us, our heath insurance is tied to earnings or weeks worked. Many families are about to lose their insurance coverage.

The theatre industry may not be quite as large as the auto industry, but the effects of this mess are already trickling down. And with tv's and cable packages so much less expensive, this won't be like the other depression of the 30's when people went to the theatre to find a dose of good cheer.

However, Broadway theatres, and other theatres across the nation raise money this time of year for a couple different charities.....(Millions over about 6 weeks) so far, our donations received from audience members over the past month are just about where they've been for the past several years. Theatre goers remain generous:usa

[SCQTT]

The local beggars seem happier than before. They have been promised "change" and fully expect it.

There are going to be a bunch of very unhappy people here when they find out he can not just redistribute their pockets full.

I know that is not exactly what he promised, but there are large groups that only heard. Blah blah blah blah.........life is going to get better for you............blah blah blah.

[tommcgee]

I service church organs for a living. Business gets better for me when the economy is like this, but payment is very slow. On the other hand, new organ sales are practically non-existent.

[108625]

Our local economy is largely driven by agriculture, not manufacturing, so there is some stability there. However, by stable I mean only as well as ag has been doing for years. We were losing small businesses before the crash, due more to the general smaller town story; Wall Mart and other chain stores taking over.
Housing here didn't climb out of control to start with, so it hasn't really tanked, but it sure stagnated. I guess we got the silver lining and the grey cloud, having sold our old house at about it's peak, but also knowing our new (to us) home is not going to gain anytime soon. At least we moved into town before the price of gas went nuts, saving us a fortune. Lenders here weren't so frivolous with bad mortgage practices either, so there aren't a lot of foreclosures.
One indicator of the bigger picture is apparent here though...
The Burlington Northern & Santa Fe Railroad has parked hundreds of unused railcars along the Missouri river here. The kind used for hauling sea-land containers full of asian import products from the coast inland. Less than a year ago, those tracks were clear because all those cars were in use.

I hope things turn around for you.

[tessler]

The local beggars seem happier than before. They have been promised "change" and fully expect it.

There are going to be a bunch of very unhappy people here when they find out he can not just redistribute their pockets full.

I know that is not exactly what he promised, but there are large groups that only heard. Blah blah blah blah.........life is going to get better for you............blah blah blah.Who's "He"? :dunno

And where do you live that you've got happy beggars? The ones around here are really struggling (and that's just on Wall Street alone) :laugh

[PGlaves]

I'm going to try to give a straight answer to this question, even though it might not sound like it. We retired and moved to a location where there really are few jobs and fewer businesses. We live in the largest county in Texas - the county is slightly larger than Connecticut - with a population of 9,000, and 6,000 of those live in Alpine. The balance of the county holds about 3,000 people.

Alpine is a typical small regional trade town with a small state university, hospital, etc. Even Amtrak stops there. We live beside the highway 53 miles south of town - 27 miles north of Big Bend National Park. It is 125 miles from our house to the nearest Walmart and over 200 miles to the nearest mall.

The balance of the county is more rural than just rural. A few large ranches. A few small ranches. Big Bend National Park lives here. River guides. A few Jeep rentals. A small fluid population of folks who camp/live in the area during the winter months. Some grizzled "desert rats" who have been here all their lives, or so long at least, that it seems that way.

In the overall scheme of things, it is a small "tourist" industry compared to other national parks - Great Smokey, Yellowstone, Yosemite - or towns like Branson, Deadwood, Cody, or Gatlinburg. But tourism is probably the major industry! Folks with RVs or on motorcycles do bring an influx of cash during the October to April tourist season. If it were not for the popularity of the Big Bend for winter motorcycle riding I suspect than many of the restaurant, motel, and campground facilities would be doing very poorly. My take is that there are fewer RVs this year, but as many or more motorcycles. It is hard to gauge because in the best of the best years the area is not crowded by any standards other than the Big Bend's. I don't see businesses closing, but ... we'll see in the spring.

People come to this area because of the natural beauty. Most visit and leave. Many keep coming back! Some love it and stay. It is a hard place to make a living - always has been and always will be. The sparse population is spread out all over the desert - some visible from the highways - most off over the hills and buttes down a few miles of graded rock roads. One of the things that has surprised us and intrigued us is the number of professional people who live here and essentially make their livings by way of the internet, and occasional travel. Architects, engineers, a patent attorney, are among the several we've met.

Certainly the southern end of the county, down by the park, was statistically poor ten years ago, five years ago, and now. It will still be "poor" 5 years from now, and probably ten years from now too. If you measure "poor" in terms of money. If you measure in other terms it is rich - not poor - but that's another story.

[88bmwJeff]

I think it's too soon to see how much the retail sector will contract. Most companies and businesses are doing their best to keep the doors open through the holiday season. As such, there's not a lot of vacant space in the retail centers, but there is a bit more than their was. Most of the vacant space is in new centers that were recently completed. Unfortunately, I think we'll see store closings in the first quarter of '09.

As for small businesses, I feel for them. While many of us don't like the concept of large corporations running things, we (the collective whole) do like their prices. As such, small businesses are slowly going away.

[108625]

Certainly the southern end of the county, down by the park, was statistically poor ten years ago, five years ago, and now. It will still be "poor" 5 years from now, and probably ten years from now too. If you measure "poor" in terms of money. If you measure in other terms it is rich - not poor - but that's another story.

You hit the nail on the head better than I did Paul.
I retired here from the Air Force by choice, knowing it would never be a boomtown. But I'm right between Glacier and Yellowstone, and all the country that connects them. Good neighbors and beautiful country do more for quality of life than income alone. (AKBeemer, don't be mad, my vote was in jest.):usa

[BubbaZanetti]

I'm a professional actor. ( my cast-mates would say semi-professional) Successful shows are closing on Broadway, and only the huge hits can remain afloat. They're ok for the moment, but there's no advance. At all. Ad agencies are losing accounts which will translate into fewer jobs for voice-over and on-camera actors. Some of what work there is, now goes to non-union actors. (no Pension and health etc) New shows are having trouble raising initial investments. Many shows employ 50 - 100 other people besides actors; carpenters, electricians, wardrobe and hair people, company managers, box office personnel, and others. Restaurants, parking garages and all the related businesses such as dry cleaners, cobblers and hotels will lose business. For most of us, our heath insurance is tied to earnings or weeks worked. Many families are about to lose their insurance coverage.

The theatre industry may not be quite as large as the auto industry, but the effects of this mess are already trickling down. And with tv's and cable packages so much less expensive, this won't be like the other depression of the 30's when people went to the theatre to find a dose of good cheer.

However, Broadway theatres, and other theatres across the nation raise money this time of year for a couple different charities.....(Millions over about 6 weeks) so far, our donations received from audience members over the past month are just about where they've been for the past several years. Theatre goers remain generous:usa


interesting perspective, my gf is a bit of a theater nut, i work a few blocks from Broadway so i see the comings and goings daily. The big shows are holding their own as big shows always do, on the tourist dollar. I personally have been going off broadway for my shows as I cant really afford too many of those plays a year. On a recent sunday night, down at the Atlantic theater, i saw a performance of Farragut North and it was 95 percent capacity. The pulling power of name stars may have had something to do with it, but all in all, the small theaters seem to be suffering by in large. Broadway as a bell-weather for NYC is interesting because it seems to take into account the myriad of financial lows and highs around here. Personally, the lack of liquidity on Wall St is hurting me a bit as NY state tax revenues are WAYYYY down (think no bonuses, ect........it doesn't just hurt those at the top) and we are being asked to get creative here in terms of budget at the state university i work at. nyc does fare better than most in these situations, but another indicator, the european tourist, seems to be lacking a bit on the streets around my office, but it could just be because of the recent cold snap.:laugh

[Visian]

I run a small business which I purchased almost 4 years ago. In the four years since, I have worked and invested all I have into growing the business, this year to maintain that level of sales, I have found that I have had to sell at a tighter and tighter margin, and then starting in September we hit a wall. While we are keeping the doors open and the lights on, it's become a challenge. The cash reserves are gone and like most of America, we're just getting by. But we are getting by and I'm grateful for that.

Over the weekend I went into Manchester CT with my wife because she needed some fabric. The Jo'ann's fabric store she was going to is in a large strip mall next to one of the larger shopping malls in the state. In the strip mall, there were at least 5 vacant store fronts that had been filled last time I was there (about 3 months ago) and on the street corners by the large shopping mall there were folks holding up "going out of business, XX% off all merchandise" signs for at least 3 or 4 more stores. It was a real eye opener.

So we have discussed to death the big picture and what is happening in Washington and the stock market and in the big corporations. But how is the economy effecting your area of the country and what are you doing personally to deal with it? I guess it's that over used Wall Street vs. Main Street question but I am curious.

Ps: Please leave the political angle out of it so we can have this discussion without hitting the Doghouse.

steve - welcome to the wonderful world of entrpreneurialism. aka: you're on your own.

my business is very recession-sensitive and i'm seeing a slowdown in my pipeline, with clients becoming much more budget sensitive.

fortunately, the last time this happened, in addition to losing a buttload of money i learned a lot about how to structure my business.

the only issue now is that i may have to send a pretty sizeable check to the government next year while starving for new biz at the same time.

no bailouts for me, gotta spread the wealth (sorry... hadta!) :ha

ian

[Visian]

Who's "He"? :dunno


John Galt? :scratch

[franze]

I live in Roseville, CA. Supposedly the 2nd largest rail yard west of the Miss. For at least 2 weeks ( that's when I first noticed) there have been over 150 train engines coupled together on a side railing. Nothing for them to do. I took these pictures earlier this week for a guy I know back east. The most diesel engines I've seen idle here since I moved here in 1999 is about 5. They do service work on the engines here so that's not surprising. Usually there is a lot of activity in the yard which is probably about 40 tracks wide. Nothing happening there these days.

first engine in line:
http://elcid.smugmug.com/photos/423778467_xvZ2a-L.jpg

a shot from the road of the side railing

http://elcid.smugmug.com/photos/423778478_o23eM-L.jpg

Here's up and down the line from about the middle of a mile long line of coupled engines. #9348 is in the foreground of each shot

http://elcid.smugmug.com/photos/423778505_irCgX-L.jpg

http://elcid.smugmug.com/photos/423778491_vkVLV-L.jpg

[Montana]

I am swamped with work. In fact, I'm not interested in meeting the demand.

I started teaching QuickBooks software in January through the local adult ed school program. This economic change has been coming for a while, for those who understand the trends and the signs, and I'm not surprised to see the increase in my student numbers. Either folks have lost their "real" jobs, or they were already running a business on the side, anyway. Now, they all have to learn to do it better, they can't be sloppy in their operations or their record keeping. And all of a sudden, the analysis tasks (profitability, costs and outstanding receivables/payables) are starting to be topical questions in my classes (and in online forums).

I have students whose small businesses are taking off to such a degree they can't hire enough help to accept all the work coming their way.

There has been a saying that there is always room for another restaurant, no matter how many are already in the area, if the new place is good and affordable. It raises the bar. I believe the same is true in business. A lot of folks and retailers who should never have been in business in their current business model will be shaken out of their complacency, and some will bite the dust. So be it. Did you really need a Linens & Things and a Bed Bath & Beyond and a JC Penney and a Target and a ShopKo and a Wal Mart; how many stores do you think we reasonably can support?

In Montana, we have never had the prosperity seen across the US. When the country as a whole is doing well, we are doing okay. When the country takes a dive, we are still doing just okay. In the past, I have described it as, "Now the rest of the country has been brought to Montana's level of prosperity."

We didn't have an available pool of money to lend to the housing market with no proof of income requried. Although there are three houses across the street from me, right now, on the market, they are not from foreclosures, the families have simply moved up. I have found it interesting that the asking price for the smallest has dropped three times and now is less than half what the highest is listed for. These homes vary a bit in size and a lot in view (location, location, location) and I can't believe the smallest isn't selling, it seems a screamin' deal to me. The new neighbors we've gotten this summer have all mentioned that they moved from within town, but their previous houses sold to folks coming from out of the area. I would assume the new, younger, potential homeowner is now having trouble getting financing, and we are seeing the impact of this going up the housing food chain.

[deilenberger]

$1.99 premium gas yesterday while out riding.. filled the tank for under $8.00. A month or so ago, that was $20.00. $1.64 regular gas this AM - haven't seen that since about 2000.. That's it for good news.

Vacant stores: There are vacancies in the local malls, but a lot of that is due to a huge new outlet mall opening. I expect after the first of the year to see a lot more fire-sale closeouts and vacant stores.

Home sales: are in the dumper - one condo development near me has been advertising "Only 5 left!" for the past 6 months at least. Not much market for $800k condos. Real estate values have dropped about 15% in the past few months, and houses are still not selling.

Car sales: well, I get an email newsletter from a Dodge dealer (that I bought a used BMW from a few years ago..) 2008 Dodge trucks - $2,500-6,000 off. 2008 Dodge cars - some are close to half-price now... $8,000-15,000 off.

Jobs: dunno a lot of facts, except where I work, any jobs that went vacant are staying that way. Our business is buying/selling high-technology equipment (think of high-tech junk dealers), and where I usually see 3-4 purchase orders a day, I'm now seeing 1-2, and many more offers to sell us equipment. Meanwhile health insurance costs have gone up double-digits percentages for the past 5 years and are getting so high it's becoming a real burden on the business.

The only growth industry I see is a credit counciling non-profit we share our building with. It has grown from about 20 employees to over 300 in 5 years. They continue to hire.

[Oldhway]

steve - welcome to the wonderful world of entrpreneurialism. aka: you're on your own.

my business is very recession-sensitive and i'm seeing a slowdown in my pipeline, with clients becoming much more budget sensitive.

fortunately, the last time this happened, in addition to losing a buttload of money i learned a lot about how to structure my business.

the only issue now is that i may have to send a pretty sizeable check to the government next year while starving for new biz at the same time.

no bailouts for me, gotta spread the wealth (sorry... hadta!) :ha

ian

I'm currently applying for a loand from Joseph D. Plumber. I hear he's got it to spare.



Back at ya' :laugh

[osbornk]

The small town in the small county I live in missed the boom of the last few years and as a result, we have also missed a lot of the bust. Car sales are the slowest I can remember. I bought a used 08 Impala last week for just over half of the original sticker.

My brother has a body shop and he has almost nothing to do. When times get tough and gas is expensive, people drive less which means fewer accidents, they don't get damage repaired or painting done if it still runs and they sell or park vehicles they don't absolutely have to have.

[Norwood]

A few weeks ago, while riding down the Mississippi River Road, some of our group stopped by the Hormel SPAM factory...

They where told that they run 44,000 cans of Spam per hour 5 days a week.....but because of the present ecomony...they are working 7 days a week.

The guys said it was a very interesting tour or the SPAM museum.

[PGlaves]

A few weeks ago, while riding down the Mississippi River Road, some of our group stopped by the Hormel SPAM factory...

They where told that they run 44,000 cans of Spam per hour 5 days a week.....but because of the present ecomony...they are working 7 days a week.

The guys said it was a very interesting tour or the SPAM museum.

Ah yes! "Let them eat Spam."

[DarrylRi]

The guys said it was a very interesting tour or the SPAM museum.

How many different varieties of the Nigerian bank transfer Spam did they have?

What? err... nevermindddd.

[Norwood]

http://www.spam.com/museum/

Austin, Minnesota

[bdspler]

Its slow in Ga. Hear Calif small towns are bad too !
Family out thier is in bad shape!
bd

[bunkyone]

Hey all; Here in Northern Michigan, things have gone from dismal to truely depressing. Unemplyment is running around 9% and that is going to go up, if those who are suppose to know about this sort of thing are right. Way too many vacant store front in the local towns and charitable giving is down. Most folks are planning to cut way back on Christmas and are stock piling cash and commodities. We are just waiting to see what the new administration has up it's collective sleeve. (I don't think it will be good!) Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride!! Vaya con Dios, Dutch

[rbertalotto]

I can give a retail perspective.......I was Vice President for a company called Tweeter. I had been with them for 31 years. In the beginning I owned three franchise stores and in 1985 sold them to the main company and accepted an executive position to take the company public and grow. we had over 200 stores in 2000 , had a great public offering, and things were good. At that point I decided I'd had enough and was burnt out and left the company. Three years later I was called back to work as the company was struggling and had lost money three years in a row. Unfortunately, bankruptcy was looming on the horizon and in 2006 we filed. We emerged as a shadow with only 97 stores and a work force cut by 60%.
We were bought out of bankruptcy by a hedge fund and it actually looked like we were turning a corner in late August and into September.
Then the melt down began, and it happened so fast, I still can't believe it. The hedge fund folks got hurt bad, and the funds to run the company dried up. We were called into a meeting and told the company was entering total liquidation......done!
They are now having GOB (going out of business) sales nationwide.

Why did this happen.............Too many stores selling the same product at the same prices, and the huge proliferation of product because of the Chinese factories. Basic "supply and demand". Prices fell with amazing speed. Good for the consumer, terrible for the retailer...........

In December 2005 we sold 44,000 flat panel TVs. At an average price of $4000 with a gross profit of 25%. We made $1000 on each TV.
During 2006 the Chinese opened a few mega factories and product started to flood the market. The Christmas of 2006 we sold 66,000 TVs! Our advertising worked, our salesfolks did their jobs, and we delivered and installed over 50K sets. But the average price was $2000 and at times, we lost money on some of the sets.....The gross profit had fallen to less than 10%.......
Stores like CosCo and Wal-Mart might be able to operate on such low margins because they can make it up in Dog Food and Paper Towels. We couldn't (and neither could Circuit City).......So we came out of Christmas 06 without enough money to carry us through the year.

I am now doing consulting for a company that deals with retailers that are entering or about to enter bankruptcy. There list of clients is truly scary. All of them have put us on notice and to see how this Christmas fairs.......In my estimation, January will be a blood bath in the retail sector.

I was driving through Texas with some investors in 1987, one of them commented that there were just too many shopping plazas and malls and the population was not growing to meet the supply. He offered that within ten years half of all the retail centers would be torn down and converted to conservation land or "prisons"....................We'll see........

On a bigger picture scale............This country can not survive without exports. In the hay days of the 50s and 60s............If you wanted Coal, Oil, Steel, Gas, Food, Lumber, Lead, etc...........You came to the USA. But now with out of control environmentalism, this can never happen. A case in point....There is a huge demand for lead with all the talk about Electric vehicles and solar cells. You need to store the power somewhere and lead is still one of the best methods. But we can't open many lead miles because of environmental concerns. Right or wrong. the USA is out of the market. And this goes for all the other natural resources.

We can not support this huge engine called the US Economy on McDonalds and MircoSoft.............It just can't be done.

And don't even get me started on the loss of manufacturing............

Enough for now...............Happy Thanksgiving!

[kantuckid]

I know it isn't nice to be a "story topper" but here is my version from the bottom of the food chain. If you think its' bad economically where you are ,you ought to come to my version of paradise! First I'll state that I live in a beautiful, clean, county,58% Daniel Boone National forest with sheer rock cliffs and deep dark woods and the nicest people you can find anywhere,BUT, this county has been on a list of the "Ten poorest counties in the USA" at one time or another.
I used to tell my kinfolk in Kansas (when over the years here in KY they would be talking of an economic slowdown) that the bad times there were much better than the good times here! We have no industry. We have no retail(unless you count 3 gas stations,1 IGA, 1 Family Dollar,1 Dollar General and a drug store? We do have people, say 5000+, and they do have to eat and so forth.We have a small amount of tourism(hikers,hunters,fishing,rock climbers) but zero motels,etc..
The taxes are low as is the tax base.You might ask what do people do for a living-they teach,sawmill,a few farm and the rest leave via cars either with or without there belongings. Some of you live in what I call LA LA Land and it would be very difficult for you to really know what it is like in a place that never has had the wealth that surrounds you. There are three Kentuckies: the blue blood horse farm one;the western and central one with farms and industry, the appalachian one with coal in some counties and poverty in all.
We live like kings, so to speak , on our teacher retirement checks and enjoy the beautiful and safe environment that we live in,BUT, it is poor here all the time, not just now, or lately. Count your blessings!
And I'll add to the above post-that we still export metals-it is called scrap iron and lead and others and they go to China. Also we export lumber and it goes out as a NON-value added product called logs and they make stuff out of it and sell it back to the rest of the world!
I have to interject here , that as a former skilled trades worker and a GOOD UNION MAN! that I am quickly tiring of the news telling us that the unions are the responsible party for the demise of our economy. This is adding a somewhat political flavor to the thread but one to which I have much personal history & emotional attachment. My hero for economic theory is Eric Hoffer, not Alan Greenspan!!!
Perhaps the $ not being there for people with bad credit to buy TV sets & cars & furniture and the list goes on & on;all of which offered a large profit to the sellers is part of the blame. I ask you , is making $1000 margin on a TV any more wrong than a fair hourly wage? Please don't anyone take this as a personal affront as, obviously there is plenty of blame to go around in our economy. As one that suffered 17.5% interest when I got done building(myself) my house in 1980 I wonder who deserves a bailout the most?

[Mark II]

Round here, people are still getting on the news by protesting city hall trying to get back the money they lost by investing in Lehman Bros. Considering that the entire economy of HK is based in international trade and finance, I don't know how people who invest can expect any kind of guarantee. Oh well, that's socialism for you.

Seriously though, the gov. here is developing public work plans at an almost daily rate, anything from building redevelopment to increasing the number of street sweepers (not the machines, but little old ladies with brooms). Doing their best to keep unemployment low. Businesses are seeing prices on just about everything rise. Even the mom & pop rice bowl "restaurants" are seeing the price of rice literally double in the past 12 months. I have students dropping out of school because their parents can't afford tuition.

That being said, I still see Bentleys, Maserattis, Ferraris, Aston-Martins and Lamborghinis driving around the neighborhood on a daily basis. In this part of town, Mercedes and (*ahem*) BMW are bottom of the barrel. I have to take the bus or the bike. No 4-wheeler for me, not here, not in this economy.

[RandallIsland]

Yeah, it's tough, gas is like a $1.87 and crime is wicked low. :scratch

[kantuckid]

I see gas 168.9 one place and 31 cents more @ 1.99.9, just down the road-gouging still lives , even with the gas going way down. I'll promise you that the heat is currently off the politicians to approach gas gouging, but go figure...

[rbertalotto]

I ask you , is making $1000 margin on a TV any more wrong than a fair hourly wage?

You asked...........

To run a typical "value added, specialty retail store", the operating expenses are around 30%. This is to pay for insurance, heat, electricity, wages, vehicles, paper clips, etc. Video product was never a money maker for anyone in the consumer electronics business. The profit and money was made in stereo receivers, speakers, tape decks and accessories. And lets not forget those nasty extended warranties....

And what is a "fair hourly wage"? ....................

[rottenbiker]

I have seen some of the big chains going out of business, Circuit City and Linens and Things, and a pricey home decorating store. My rider training site has remained busy up through the fall into winter, and I still have a couple of classes left to run (weather permitting) and they have still been filling. Gas prices seemed to have dictated registration most of the summer, but alot of the people I am getting now,...just don't want to get caught having to wait several months to take a class if they wait till next year to sign up. I think for the most part Colorado is in pretty good shape. There is still alot of new building going on. And a friend of mine who is in real estate said her sales have been picking up.

[535is]

I am lucky to enjoy doing what I do, and in this small town (~32,000 in a county of ~75,000), I do it as well as anyone else. Unfortunately for everyone else, my business is debtor-side bankruptcy law and, as you might imagine, my business is getting busier. There are still many myths floating around after the 2005 'reform', but the truth is, almost everyone who qualified for a bankruptcy prior to the change in the law still qualifies for the same kind of filing, whether it is Chapter Seven liquidation or Chapter Thirteen reorganization. Bankruptcy was not 'abolished' or limited to any significant extent.

Here, I see many of the problems common everywhere else. We have been closing factories due to foreign 'outsourcing' since the turn of the century. Of the few larger ones we have left, most are also in danger of the same fate. One that is not is luxury super yacht manufacturer Burger Boat. Manitowoc is still a shipbuilding port city. :thumb

We seem to lose our other manufacturers to Mexico and South America, not so much to China. So we have displaced workers facing substantially reduced income and the resultant financial problems from it. At least one aluminum rolling mill and cookware stamping plant was revived by local investors and operates at a small fraction of its former level. A second former manufacturing facility is a small manufacturer 'incubator' where portions are leased to startup ventures at favorable rates. A couple of novel new 'green' ventures are doing well. Other plants simply stand vacant.

The service economy seems to be doing surprisingly well, but I still work with small businesses that are failing. I wonder if everyone can continue to get by just by selling groceries, consumer goods, building supplies, fast food, and Starbucks to one another. It will be interesting to see what happens if one or more of the domestic auto manufacturers, all three of which have local dealerships, goes belly-up since we have no foreign marque dealerships within 25 miles.

[gfspencer]

Our local economy WAS textiles and furniture. Both of those industries went away several years ago. (and nobody offered us a bail out).

[osbornk]

Our local economy WAS textiles and furniture. Both of those industries went away several years ago. (and nobody offered us a bail out).

Same here in Southern and Southwestern Virginia. Blue collars got unemployment and now white collars get a bailout.

[kantuckid]

As I inferred in my earlier post-we have nothing here to close in the first place and the jobs people drive to, are leaving/closing. 2 sawmills in the county are very slow and life goes on. In nearest market town : a 125 yr old building materials place is going out soon and another thats 40 yrs old just auctioned out-got a new Lowes' this year. Wally world is humming and the fast food places too, but factories are slow with exception of Nestles' , they are hiring! (if you want to work for $10-14 hrly).

[108625]

(if you want to work for $10-14 hrly).

I have to ask, are you inferring that is not a fair wage for factory work? I presume these are no experience neccesary, on the job trained, unskilled trades positions?
If those wages are too low to for people there to bother to feel it's worth going to work, and Nestle can't fill enough positions, I'm sure they would be welcome here, and in many other parts of the country as well.
I know too many people who work harder than that for less.

[PGlaves]

I have to ask, are you inferring that is not a fair wage for factory work? I presume these are no experience neccesary, on the job trained, unskilled trades positions?
If those wages are too low to for people there to bother to feel it's worth going to work, and Nestle can't fill enough positions, I'm sure they would be welcome here, and in many other parts of the country as well.
I know too many people who work harder than that for less.

I'm really curious about the answer, because I don't want the food products I eat made by no-experience, unskilled tradepersons, earning enough to leave a family of 4 below the poverty line. If as a nation we can't do better than that we aren't half as good as we think we are.

[From MARS]

I'm really curious about the answer, because I don't want the food products I eat made by no-experience, unskilled tradepersons, earning enough to leave a family of 4 below the poverty line. If as a nation we can't do better than that we aren't half as good as we think we are.

Then you probably don't want to fly, either. There is a wiring harness plant in Cottonwood Falls, KS that pays those kinds of wages to the employees making harnesses that go into some of the planes made in Wichita. But now, they are really slow. With the layoffs coming at the big plants, the suppliers will be laying off soon if they're not already.

My work load hasn't decreased any, but I am very conscience of how I price my labor. The "pad" factor is a little smaller, and I'm willing to "eat" a certain amount if I underestimate the job. My low overhead allows me to get really competitive on labor. My labor rates vary based on the amount of work waiting for me and how "interesting" the project.

As I tell my customers, "Good, fast, or cheap; Chose two!" Unfortunately, an overactive sense of responsibility won't let me do "cheap", so I wind up eating my labor in some cases where folks just can't afford to pay the going rate.

Tom

[108625]

I'm really curious about the answer, because I don't want the food products I eat made by no-experience, unskilled tradepersons, earning enough to leave a family of 4 below the poverty line. If as a nation we can't do better than that we aren't half as good as we think we are.

Paul,

I'm talking about people working where the food on your table originates.
A cattle inspector out here doesn't make that much, and he's the first line of defense between you and Brucellosis, among other things.

People gripe about farm subsidies, well farm and ranch hands certainly don't get them.

Most of the grain elevators out here say General Mills, eaten any cereal lately?

How about Giant Springs bottled water? The plant [I]Manager[I] position was advertised recently, with a salary of $30,000 a year.

You're right, we can do better.

[rvbeemer]

The economy here in Odessa, Tx is still pretty good but I don't expect it to last much longer if the price of oil keeps falling. My work as a machinist is still pretty busy but I'm hearing stories of rig builders laying off welders and that's a pretty good sign that things are slowing down. There are still bunches of jobs available though as I still see "Now Hiring" signs eveywhere. At least it's not like the last bust in 82 when someone switched out the lights overnight. But then again, I could care less as my wife and I became debt free several years ago and we'll be alright no matter what the economy is. It'll also mean a whole bunch of illegals (70% of welders) will be moving on or back to Mehico, hopefully,or get into the ever present and expanding drug trafficking that already runs through the area. But then there is always natural gas. Burn that furnace folks! beinvindidos!:usa

[kantuckid]

OK, I'm back from watching TN kick our(UK)butt in FB! It was awful too! The truth is that people here in KY are mostly hard working as are most Americans I've met! The fact is that a $10-14 hrly job that requires driving quite a distance is not much to live on. I'll stick my neck out now and reveal that from 1974-2001 I was either a skilled trade teacher or counselor in a technical school and consider myself an expert on our job market, or at least I was supposed to be one! It was common for our teachers to get calls from industry in our area that wanted to pay low ball insulting wages to our students that were ready for their first skilled jobs. It was not unusuak for it to be less than the amount mentioned for Nestle'. Examples are someone wanting a person that could perform in several trade areas and then offering barely over minimum wage. The $10-14 I mentioned from Nestle' is a new ad and they have a certain amount of turn over as any employer. The jobs are what would be called semi-skilled and require only a HS credential. Hot Pockets are made there and I think on the west coast too. The jobs are repetitive and not very demanding ability wise, so I think to fear the product is a bit over blown-I don't eat them, just a comment in reaction to the above...:eat
I'm being prodded for an answer on the $1000 markup on the TV-OK, I think it seems like too much and a livable wage is enough to live the American dream of having good housing and so on. If you have education and or skill then it should be more. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know crap about selling TVs:doh
It is interesting to note that I made more as a union mechanic than as a HS Principal. Understand that it was me doing what I wanted to do both times. I actually spent longer becoming a pretty good mechanic than I did getting a BS/technical degree and a masters in counseling and a terminal degree in counseling and a educational administrators certificate. In our society the degrees get more mileage but I'm telling you that the skilled training was longer and harder to get to the point of expertise. So, what should we get paid for what-more in the case of the Principal-the job will eat you up!Whats fair is always a hard thing to say.My PHD Chem engr son gets 90k and is in his second year-is that fair? you tell me-his twin brother with a masters in civil engr makes 85k in his second year(he was nuke in Navy) is that enough? I've met car sale people that made twice what they make-is that fair? this is like an oil thread, lets get back to the economy;)
The economy may be in the trash but I can attest to the fact that there are plenty of people in the stadiums these days at the FB games, so go figure.

[Vagabird]

My daughter in Olympia WA told me yesterday that the state layoff list comes out Tuesday. Seems the state has a huge deficit and is laying off some of its employess. Both she and her husband work for the state. :uhoh Keep your fingers crossed.

[RJM2096]

When I owned retail stores, I found that a downturn in the economy meant I would be able to hire dependable people. They would show up for work and not steal everthing not nailed down. Profits actually increased or at least held. I paid them well, but when times got good they would go onto less demanding jobs (no night or weekend hours).

I have a friend that tells me that many of our illegals are heading back to their own country because there are fewer menial jobs available.

My experience indicates that the unemployed were often the unemployable or the unmovable.

[AKBeemer]

This is telling in how it depicts the flow of unemployment over the past years:

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html

[wezul]

The numbers can be deceiving.
Don't tell me that new jobless claims are down and we are turning the corner, heck the workforce has been trimmed to the bone, there is no one left to fire.

Tell me when continuing jobless claims decline and those who are underemployed have found solutions.

I know many people who are either 6 months unemployed or newly underemployed.

[rmarkr]

The numbers can be deceiving.
Don't tell me that new jobless claims are down and we are turning the corner, heck the workforce has been trimmed to the bone, there is no one left to fire.

Tell me when continuing jobless claims decline and those who are underemployed have found solutions.

I know many people who are either 6 months unemployed or newly underemployed.

Look on the brighter side - the economy is failing at a slower pace!

;)

[osbornk]

When I owned retail stores, I found that a downturn in the economy meant I would be able to hire dependable people. They would show up for work and not steal everthing not nailed down. Profits actually increased or at least held. I paid them well, but when times got good they would go onto less demanding jobs (no night or weekend hours).

I have a friend that tells me that many of our illegals are heading back to their own country because there are fewer menial jobs available.

My experience indicates that the unemployed were often the unemployable or the unmovable.

When I was hiring for people in insurance claims, finding employees who were qualified and would work was a difficult process regardless of the state of the economy. A new Japanese restaurant opened in our small town last week. People complained about the poor and slow service they encountered. The owner was questioned about the problem. She said she had difficulty finding people to hire. She said she hired several but they never showed up for work.

Our small town never had the boom of a few years ago and as a result, we didn't have the bust. We've had a few foreclosures and a few people laid off but nothing exceptional. Our housing prices have not dropped much but they are not gaining either (but they never shot up either).

[Bob_M]

My work is the slowest it has been in 15 years.

[KGT1200]

After seemingly years of people telling us "nothing is a matter", I'm not quite ready for the same guys who want to tell me "it's getting better"!

[E_Page]

My experience indicates that the unemployed were often the unemployable or the unmovable.

That's been my past experience also. But this time is different. This time I know quite a few good people who have been out of work for a few months. Most of these folks work in fields related to the building and construction sector, and there is very little work there.

Most of those have looked for work in ANY field. They often run up against either being under qualified for jobs that require some specialized training, or over qualified for menial jobs.

Thankfully, I am employed in a relatively secure job, but I'm hoping for a change in the right direction.

[kbasa]

I feel fortunate. Locally, SF suffers from the vagaries of the economy, but probably not to the degree of Detroit, for example. Housing prices in my county have taken a slight hit, but if your house is nice, it'll still sell for close to asking.

Jobs aren't easy to find, but some businesses (including the one I work for) are booming. Two years ago, we were a $2M/year business. This year, we'll do about $8M. Next year, we're planning on $20M, so we're hiring like crazy. Landing a big contract with a Fortune 10 company didn't hurt and should stage us to garner additional large scale business.

What industry am I in? Litigation support. Our business is directly dependent on corporate civil litigation. I've been in this industry for nearly 30 years and the old saying is "When time are good, people sue. When times are bad, they sue each other even more".

Remember, this is civil litigation over intellectual property and the like, not ambulance chasing and so forth.

In the larger Bay Area, tech is suffering and jobs are tough. I am, however, seeing a recent spate of solar and alternative energy companies marketing to regular homeowners, so that may be the nugget of innovation that begins to grow.

I feel like the worst is behind us, but the country is still trying to figure out what will be the next industry that will help us move forward.

[kbasa]

The numbers can be deceiving.
Don't tell me that new jobless claims are down and we are turning the corner, heck the workforce has been trimmed to the bone, there is no one left to fire.

Tell me when continuing jobless claims decline and those who are underemployed have found solutions.

I know many people who are either 6 months unemployed or newly underemployed.

That was me last year - 8 months out. I'm as well connected in my industry as I am in the motorcycle world and there just weren't jobs out there. Thankfully, my network helped me find a job.

If you have a job be sure to keep your network alive. It will absolutely lead you to a new job.

[jamesdunn]

That's been my past experience also. But this time is different. This time I know quite a few good people who have been out of work for a few months. Most of these folks work in fields related to the building and construction sector, and there is very little work there.

Most of those have looked for work in ANY field. They often run up against either being under qualified for jobs that require some specialized training, or over qualified for menial jobs.

Thankfully, I am employed in a relatively secure job, but I'm hoping for a change in the right direction.

How true! I know many well qualified workers that are now jobless or underemployed. It is very different this time. And, I do not think employment is coming back again as it has in past recessions. The reasons are varied. It is a sad time for our country, but mostly for average Americans, the Wall Street banksters are doing well.

Iowa is doing...okay. But just barely.