DYNA BEADS for tire balancing

[81242]

Need some input from those who have been there... Seems every motorcycle shop that has a front counter has a display of these "Dyna Beads" for fuss-free dynamic tire balancing. Small packet (1/2 oz or 1 oz) of silicon (?) beads that are inserted into the tube or tire.
Does anyone have any experience with this method? Comments? Warnings?

'75 R60/6
'81 R80 G/S
'92 R100R

I'd like to try them out, but just am not certain about safety issues.
Thanks in advance

[Rpbump]

BMW of Daytona put Dyna-beads in the new Metzler tire on the rear of my CLC.
So far no vibration and no wheel weights a win/win situation.

Ride Safe :p

[rado360]

I put dyna beads in the tires on my oilhead about 5k miles ago and they work just as they claim.
When you put them in through the valve stem you need a way to vibrate the stem to get the beads to flow,I held an electric sander with a rag wrapped around it next to the stem.
And be careful not to spill them.Check out dyna bead's web site if you haven't yet.

[sumran]

I used them in the front tire I installed. Very smooth. It is nice to have no weights on the rim. I will continue use them. Some vendors sell them with a tube that will hold the entire quantity for the wheel. It makes it easier not to spill as you fill.

[MotorradMike]

Safety issues?

Not sure what you're worried about.

I started changing my own tires just because I could balance them with DynaBeads. I have them in the rear and have no problems. You can go to their website and see how they work - took me a while but I now understand the concept and think it's brilliant.

[RoboRider]

I use dyna beads and have no complaints. I think a real test would be to use no beads, add weight until a vibration is noticeable, then add beads and see it the vibration is cured. I just haven't had time to mess with it.

I know a racer who does not like them because when you brake hard for a corner, the beads get thrown out of whack and you get vibration. But I've never had a problem on the street and I don't notice any balancing issues on my RT.

Here's about the best video demo I've seen:

http://tinyurl.com/4qwzmv

Robo

[81242]

thanks for the input.
Many years ago I had used a similar product in my pick-up truck tires and was quite satisfied with the resulting smooth ride. But then the product was removed from the passenger vehicle market and I never really found out why. That is partly why I was hesitant to try it on bike tires. After checking out the link and the video, it sounds like the way to go.

ride safe, ride far

[PMonk]

I assume they aren't used in tubed tyres?

[sumran]

I assume they aren't used in tubed tyres?

They work fine in tubed tires. I have tubes on mine.

[skidgillen]

They work great for me, and I will continue to use them. Installation is a lot easier if you go to the hardware store and buy a longer tube than the one that comes with them. All you need is a foot.

[AnnapolisAirhead]

I assume they aren't used in tubed tyres?

Tyres? Is that a taipo? :stick

I've also heard they work with or without, er, toobed tyres. ;-)

[MotorradMike]

You're kidding right?

Tyres is British.

[PAULBACH]

You're kidding right?

Tyres is British.

Tyres is English.

Tires are American. :laugh

[PMonk]

Continental Motorcycle Tyres -
The new ContiRaceAttack Slick represents the next stage for Continental Motorcycle Tyres in building up its racing tyre program. ...

Since I just put a pair of blitz tyres on my bike I guess i just .....

by the way, the blitz front on my 90/6 cured the headshake I was having with the older ribbed tires on deceleration. oops I meant tyres!

[R90S]

Balance your tires correctly in the first place.

This stuff is a poor answer to a non-problem.

[AnnapolisAirhead]

You're kidding right?

Tyres is British.

Of course I am kidding. Just found it funny, on a Motorcycles of America site forum for German bikes using the British spelling.

Who really won the wars? :laugh

In America we say Tires
In England we say Tyres
Auf Deutsch sagen wir Gummireifen

[Red100RT]

Need some input from those who have been there... Seems every motorcycle shop that has a front counter has a display of these "Dyna Beads" for fuss-free dynamic tire balancing. Small packet (1/2 oz or 1 oz) of silicon (?) beads that are inserted into the tube or tire.
Does anyone have any experience with this method? Comments? Warnings?

'75 R60/6
'81 R80 G/S
'92 R100R

I'd like to try them out, but just am not certain about safety issues.
Thanks in advance

I change my own tires (or tyres) on '04RT and '81RT and balance with dyna beads and will never use weights as the beads are all I need. Smoooth with no vibration and even wear, no cupping. Just pour beads slowly and thump the valve stem rapidly much as you would a water mellon in the grocery store. Simple:D

[donmitt]

I have used these beads on both tires on my CLC and my friends bike with great results. As to properly balancing the tires with weights, as the tires wear that would change the balance as where the beads would compensate. Think about it.

[keelerb]

Those using them should check balance on your tires. My snowflakes and new tires are perfectly balanced without any weights. No dyna beads either.

[knary]

I can't remotely figure out the physics that would make these things work. I understand how they would distribute themselves, but why and how would they distribute themselves to compensate for the imperfections of a tire, the valve, and so on? And do it each and every time you start rolling down the road. :scratch

I believe riders that haven't had problems with them, but has anyone done back to back tests between a tire that was clearly out of balance and then reinstalled it in the exact same way but with the beads?

It all sounds too good to be true.

[nh7robmw]

Dyna beads work and continue to work effectively as your tires wear. Your tires wear more evenly and last longer because the Dyna Beads constantly adjust to the dynamics of the tire.

Dyna beads are much closer to the ideal as they are near the outer edge of the tire's circumference, unlike rim weights that are closer to the center of the wheel!

I find it hard to believe that people are still questioning or debating the merits of this innovative product. I used them on my GS, my BMW Z3 (car) and now on my K bike. Going to put them in my Toyota 4Runner and Honda scooter now, too---they're good for any kind of tire that will be used at 25mph and above.

Get some, install them carefully (they like to scatter and bounce all over the place if they get loose)---continual tapping of a screwdriver against the tube works for me---and go out and enjoy a smoooooth ride.

PS: Don't forget to discard your old rim weights; you won't need them ever again!:D

End of story, in my opinion.

[R90S]

Why don't they all migrate to the point furthest out from the axle?

[rkildu]

For what it's worth:

When I had my last new set of tires mounted I did some semi-scientific testing. The independant shop that mounted the tires is run by one of our club members. He has a computer dynamic balancer. So I ran some tests.

First I tested the balance with no balance weights, no Dyna Beads. I don't remember the numbers, but the balancer indicated a certain amount of weight at a cetain location on the wheel. Reran with the same results.

I then added the beads and repeated the tests several times. You have to run up to an rpm equivalent to about 10 mph for the beads to do their thing. Results 0/0

Repeatable.

I now them in both my bikes.

Oh yeah, no more problem with stick on weights falling off. After about 5 K miles still no problems.

Rod

[Red100RT]

I like the beads so well on my bikes that I decided to try them on my '07 Mustang GT as I had a slight wheel shimmy at around 65 mph. I called dyna beads rep and was told that because of the profile of the tires on my Mustang the dyna beads might not help. I was also advised to not remove the rim weights. He was right, did not help. Had the tires removed and re-mounted with the orange dots on the sidewalls positioned adjacent to the valve stems and after re-balancing problem corrected. This kind of got off subject but it adds a different perspective to dyna bead action with a different tire profile. Oh, Ford refused to pay for the balancing as I was 4 days over the one year warranty on normal wear items like tires. Kind of reminds me of BMW.:banghead

[jdmetzger]

I can't remotely figure out the physics that would make these things work. I understand how they would distribute themselves, but why and how would they distribute themselves to compensate for the imperfections of a tire, the valve, and so on? And do it each and every time you start rolling down the road. :scratch

I believe riders that haven't had problems with them, but has anyone done back to back tests between a tire that was clearly out of balance and then reinstalled it in the exact same way but with the beads?

It all sounds too good to be true.

I'm with Knary. I'd like to think they work, but I just don't buy into it. It would make my life easier when I change my tires, though.

The thing is, I mounted TKC-80's and rode them unbalanced for a few hundred miles before going to get them balanced. I hardly could tell a difference and they were "off" by a bit. In my case, balancing made a minimal difference, and for all I know that's how it is with a motorcycle - you may never notice it.

I've heard mixed stories. One guy at a race track saw a guy mounting/balancing tires who had a bag full of beads he vacuumed out of tires after the racers complained the bike would shimmy with hard braking coming into a turn. Another riding friend says they're the greatest thing in the world. I've seen all the videos that show how they work, but I'm unconvinced.

The way I see it, bike manufacturers could save time in assembly by just pouring beads into tires instead of balancing them with weights. Until a bike comes off the assembly line of a major manufacturer with dyna beads, I'm not going to try them.

[tommcgee]

I've heard mixed stories. One guy at a race track saw a guy mounting/balancing tires who had a bag full of beads he vacuumed out of tires after the racers complained the bike would shimmy with hard braking coming into a turn.

That video with the electric drill and plastic water bottle would seem to confirm this. I'm staying with weights. Bikes can get wiggly enough without your wheels becoming dynamic.

[GrafikFeat]

It all sounds too good to be true.

Maybe... But so was the that infernal horseless carriage at one time.

It seems to make sense... I've yet to find a bad review...

I'm in at next set of tires.

http://www.innovativebalancing.com/HowItWorks.htm

[markb635]

Why not do it the right way if you're mounting your own tires?

http://www.marcparnes.com/BMW_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm

I don't think I'd want to risk a death wobble/tank slapper because I saved a few dollars putting some beads in my tires.

[GrafikFeat]

I don't think I'd want to risk a death wobble/tank slapper because I saved a few dollars putting some beads in my tires.

Lotta tank slappers are from a thrown lead weight.
I'd like to think technology moves forward from time to time.

[jdmetzger]

One big complaint I've always had about the Dyna beads is the lack of any way to really verify they work aside from "they feel OK" and their demonstration video. They have created a situation where it's impossible to verify they function.

From their site:

" Can I put the tire on a balancer to see if it's working?

No. Dyna Beads operates on physics principles, and requires the tire assembly to be in motion against a road surface to detect the exact counterbalance position. An electronic balancer has a solid, fixed mount, and does not allow the tire to react to imbalance."

My biggest complaint is the last sentence:

" An electronic balancer has a solid, fixed mount, and does not allow the tire to react to imbalance."

Uhm - when you bolt the tire/rim up to the car (or bike) it ALSO has a solid, fixed mount. I don't see how this makes ANY difference. Plus, if the balancer doesn't allow the tire to react to an imbalance, then how does the balancing machine detect them being out of balance for lead weights? If they work on "physics principles" (EVERYTHING in the world does, in fact), then they should balance out a tire on a balancer just the same as they do on the road. The other thing I know about electronic balancers (at least for car/truck tires, which they sell Dyna beads for) is that they also balance for "wobble" - side to side motion. That's why you will sometimes see weights on both sides of the rim of your car if you look. Again, that doesn't sound like a "solid, fixed mount".

It reads like snake oil, and the lack of any easy way to verify their claims makes me even more wary. If you can't test them with a spin balance machine, how can anyone ever know if they truly work? I can't find any scientific review on those things, just lots of "they seem to work great". Some people say the same thing to doctors after being given a sugar pill...

[GrafikFeat]

Uhm - when you bolt the tire/rim up to the car (or bike) it ALSO has a solid, fixed mount. I don't see how this makes ANY difference. Plus, if the balancer doesn't allow the tire to react to an imbalance, then how does the balancing machine detect them being out of balance for lead weights?

Detection is not correction.
The tire needs to be in contact with the road for the reaction to the action to take place. That is what the beads are correcting.

Look at the illustration. It's not to hard to comprehend what is actually taking place.

[jdmetzger]

Detection is not correction.
The tire needs to be in contact with the road for the reaction to the action to take place. That is what the beads are correcting.

Look at the illustration. It's not to hard to comprehend what is actually taking place.

I've seen the illustration and videos. If the road surface made such a difference, static lead weights wouldn't work.

The tire spins and the beads distribute themselves in the tire. If they actually work, having the tire in contact with the road may change the distribution of the beads compared to a tire on a balancing machine, but either way it should show the tire/wheel in balance. If it doesn't balance on the machine I have no idea how it would balance on the road. You can't have one without the other.

As they say on their website, "they work on physics principles" - the physics are the same in both places, so why would the beads only work in one?

[GrafikFeat]

As they say on their website, "they work on physics principles" - the physics are the same in both places, so why would the beads only work in one?

The one is not the spinning of the tire. It's the reaction of the imbalance and that motion created in the illustration due to the up and down motion while moving laterally.
This is why they won't correct harmonic distortion of bent rims etc.

[fabiox]

this beads are a scam....

[GrafikFeat]

this beads are a scam....

So are Trolls... :ear :laugh

[jdmetzger]

The one is not the spinning of the tire. It's the reaction of the imbalance and that motion created in the illustration due to the up and down motion while moving laterally.
This is why they won't correct harmonic distortion of bent rims etc.

I'm still might unconvinced, and their illustrations/descriptions defy logic. I also think they could get a lot more business if they would have an impartial scientific study done on if/how they work, but I guess they decided spending the money on marketing would be better - I wonder why.

I don't think we'll ever agree on this, of course. I'll keep using the stick-on/clamp on (spokes) weights, you can use the beads, and we'll both be helping someone stay in business. :)

[GrafikFeat]

I'll keep using the stick-on/clamp on (spokes) weights, you can use the beads, and we'll both be helping someone stay in business.

:laugh

Hopefully keeping ourselves on the road... Ride Safe.

[rdalland]

My tires feel more "planted" with Dynabeads than they do without. Couldn't tell any difference in the balance compared to a static balance.

I installed them with a tire change without balancing the tires. I removed them 2000 miles later and static balanced the tires. I couldn't tell any difference in the Dynabead balance compared to a static balance. I did need to add weights when I did the static balance.

I did not try the tires without the Dynabeads or static balance, so I can't say if the wheels were in balance to start with. I did remove the old weights when I mounted the tires.

I will probably try them again with my next tire change. If I do, I will do some miles with no Dynabeads or wheel weights before adding them.

[riderR1150GSAdv]

I have used them on my GS with TKC 80's (knobbies) and the beads were great once I figured out that one ounce is enough for the front tire. According to the instructions, BMW's need 2 ounces up front..... NOT correct!
In any case I will use them again, as tire life was greatly improved. Just my 0.02 cts. YMMV

[Troutluck]

Has anyone here tried the synthetic dyna beads? :bolt

[nh7robmw]

I have used them on my GS with TKC 80's (knobbies) and the beads were great once I figured out that one ounce is enough for the front tire. According to the instructions, BMW's need 2 ounces up front..... NOT correct!
In any case I will use them again, as tire life was greatly improved. Just my 0.02 cts. YMMV

Used them also with TKC 80s and now Metzeler ME880/88s... I'm pretty sure the standard amount is 1 ounce for the front and 2 ounces in the rear (at least for bikes).

I think those who say that they're snake oil or want to stay with dead weights on the rim are really missing out. Just the fact that they do prolong the life of your tire speaks volumes, IMO.

[R90S]

Used them also with TKC 80s and now Metzeler ME880/88s... I'm pretty sure the standard amount is 1 ounce for the front and 2 ounces in the rear (at least for bikes).

I think those who say that they're snake oil or want to stay with dead weights on the rim are really missing out. Just the fact that they do prolong the life of your tire speaks volumes, IMO.

I'll bet you have magnets on your gas line and a vortex generator in your air inlets, too.

Do you know what happens to the tire manufacturers' warranty when you put these beads inside?

From the company websites:

Bridgestone:
"Bridgestone does not recommend the use of liquid or dry balancers or sealants. Bridgestone will not warranty any tire which has been injected with these materials."


Metzeler:
"Caution: To avoid the danger of air leakage use only weights that are recommended from the motorcycle manufacturer like spoke nipple weights, lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights. METZELER does not recommend the use of liquid balancers or liquid balance/sealers. METZELER does not give warranty for tires into which these have been injected."

Michelin:
" What is not covered:... Tires which become unserviceable due to:... the addition of liquid, solid, or gaseous materials other than air, nitrogen, or carbon dioxide (for example, waterbase sealers or balancing substances)"


Dunlop:
"WHAT IS NOT COVERED:...
Tires injected with dry/liquid balancers or sealants, or in which anything other than air has been used as the support medium. "

[RoboRider]

What really bothers me here is that reputable Magazines, BMW ON being one, haven't done a good, scientific test of these. I learned about these in an ON article and was dissapointed in that their testing was, "seems ok to me". I submitted this as a "Mythbuster" request but I'm not holding my breath. It wouldn't be hard to test. I don't know why it hasn't been done and the fact that the manufacturer hasn't done it, as pointed out earlier, is bothersome.

[Rich]

I use them and like them.

I'm curious how the tire manufacturer would ever know that ceramic beads had been used to balance their tires if a warranty issue came up. Assuming of course you removed the tire yourself.

Which leads me to another question: how many people have actually ever used a warranty on a motorcycle tire?

[keelerb]

I think we should stop all negative comment on this product.

Otherwise, natural selection isn't gonna work and these people are actually gonna reproduce...!









NOTE: Not wishing harm to anyone who uses these, but folks, you're kidding yourselves....

[donmitt]

quote:
Which leads me to another question: how many people have actually ever used a warranty on a motorcycle tire?

Good one. In 43 years of riding these things, I have never used a tire warranty.

2ond quote:
Otherwise, natural selection isn't gonna work and these people are actually gonna reproduce...!

Too late, I have already reproduced.

[Rich]

I think we should stop all negative comment on this product.

Otherwise, natural selection isn't gonna work and these people are actually gonna reproduce...!









NOTE: Not wishing harm to anyone who uses these, but folks, you're kidding yourselves....

And do you have professional knowledge on the subject you wanna share with the rest of us?

C'mon Einstein, we're all ears. Save us from ourselves.

[riderR1150GSAdv]

Used them also with TKC 80s and now Metzeler ME880/88s... I'm pretty sure the standard amount is 1 ounce for the front and 2 ounces in the rear (at least for bikes).

I think those who say that they're snake oil or want to stay with dead weights on the rim are really missing out. Just the fact that they do prolong the life of your tire speaks volumes, IMO.

Standard is 1 ounce up front except BMW see the chart...
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/chart.htm#MotorcycleChart

[R90S]

I use them and like them.

I'm curious how the tire manufacturer would ever know that ceramic beads had been used to balance their tires if a warranty issue came up. Assuming of course you removed the tire yourself.

Because you would tell them.

Unless you are ethically challenged.

[DennisDarrow]

Thanks Jon-Lars for the honesty. Am amazed by the first response but it truly is a sign of the times. Actually, I am not in the least suprised for this attitude has been displayed many times on here by more than just that responder. What matters is making that all mighty dollar and then spending it upon conspicuous consumption. .........God Bless.......Dennis

[Rich]

Thanks Jon-Lars for the honesty. Am amazed by the first response but it truly is a sign of the times. Actually, I am not in the least suprised for this attitude has been displayed many times on here by more than just that responder. What matters is making that all mighty dollar and then spending it upon conspicuous consumption. .........God Bless.......Dennis

If you are questioning my integrity, you're sadly mistaken, but I deleted the post in question as it probably lead you to that conclusion. Sorry.

In all honestly, I wouldn't turn in a motorcycle tire for warranty, I'd simply order another one.

I'm still waiting to hear from keelerb though. Particularly, how are we kidding ourselves if they work for us?

[keelerb]

If it works for you, great - use it. I have no "evidence" it doesn't. Nor do anecdotal accounts from a few folks convince me. I've certainly heard of doctors who cured patients' symptoms with sugar pills....the placebo effect.

The "science" behind it is more than a little suspect.

But to each his own. You may want to try Fitch Fuel Catalyst too....

[sumran]

As noted in an earlier post I have used the dynabeads and have a smooth riding tire. I understand that the tire may have been fine with no beads or balancing. I read about them somewhere along the way and spoke with someone that had used them. They were very happy with the results. I did not approach it scientifically.

It seems it would be relatively easy to test whether the beads work. Obviously they would not work with a static balancer. But if they should be able to produce results similar to lead weights on a dynamic balancer if they work according to the manufacturer's claims.

Even if it doesn't prove to be a good system I'm keeping the deer whistles I got as a bonus for ordering before midnight.:bolt

[jdmetzger]

As noted in an earlier post I have used the dynabeads and have a smooth riding tire. I understand that the tire may have been fine with no beads or balancing. I read about them somewhere along the way and spoke with someone that had used them. They were very happy with the results. I did not approach it scientifically.

It seems it would be relatively easy to test whether the beads work. Obviously they would not work with a static balancer. But if they should be able to produce results similar to lead weights on a dynamic balancer if they work according to the manufacturer's claims.

Even if it doesn't prove to be a good system I'm keeping the deer whistles I got as a bonus for ordering before midnight.:bolt

This is the bulk of my complaint. They specifically say they won't work on a dynamic (machine) balancer. After watching videos and reading descriptions and seeing diagrams, it still makes no sense to me that they could balance tires mounted to the bike but not work mounted to a dynamic balancer. They have done probably the most important thing they can from a marketing standpoint by removing any way of refuting their claims. Bravo.

To each his own. Ride safe!

[OHScot]

I have a R75/6 and have had maybe 8 sets of tires over the 25 years I have owned the bike. Up until 5 years ago never balanced a tire. Now in the last two sets I have had one balanced and one set not. I ride mostly 50-60 mph but will run up to the end of the speedo on occasion. Never noticed a difference or problem. What gives, just luck or am I that insensitive??:ear

Has anyone verified an out of balance tire that the beads have fixed? Only thing I can think of is the loose mass in the tire dampens out any vibration I can not see how it can balance an object that is statically out of balance.

[GrafikFeat]

Do you know what happens to the tire manufacturers' warranty when you put these beads inside?

Prolly the same as when I don't use Castrol as noted in my OM.

Most of that junk they state is flat sealant crap.
The only warranties I ever needed for tires were for road hazard and beads have nothing to do w/ that.

[R90S]

Prolly the same as when I don't use Castrol as noted in my OM.

Most of that junk they state is flat sealant crap.
The only warranties I ever needed for tires were for road hazard and beads have nothing to do w/ that.

Read the post again. Those are quotes from the company warranties. No probables about it.

The point is, they do not condone or approve the use of beads for balancing; they do the opposite.

I find this to be a very loud condemnation, from the people who know most about the subject.

[MotorradMike]

This is the bulk of my complaint. They specifically say they won't work on a dynamic (machine) balancer. After watching videos and reading descriptions and seeing diagrams, it still makes no sense to me that they could balance tires mounted to the bike but not work mounted to a dynamic balancer. They have done probably the most important thing they can from a marketing standpoint by removing any way of refuting their claims. Bravo.

To each his own. Ride safe!

They can't work if the axle is prevented from moving off center. Suspension allows that so they do work on the bike. I can't understand how anyone could be a disbeliever after watching the bottle/drill video on youtube. Very dramatic!

[GrafikFeat]

Read the post again. Those are quotes from the company warranties. No probables about it.

There are probables on everything.
Running beads won't affect a claim over hitting crap on the highway.
Period.

Reading below seems to "overlook" ceramic beads.
Beads are not liquid.

Thank you for playing.

Metzeler:
"Caution: To avoid the danger of air leakage use only weights that are recommended from the motorcycle manufacturer like spoke nipple weights, lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights. METZELER does not recommend the use of liquid balancers or liquid balance/sealers. METZELER does not give warranty for tires into which these have been injected."

[jdmetzger]

They can't work if the axle is prevented from moving off center. Suspension allows that so they do work on the bike. I can't understand how anyone could be a disbeliever after watching the bottle/drill video on youtube. Very dramatic!

How does my axle move off-center? I have a wheel mounted between two forks with a metal axle running through the forks and the wheel. This is then clamped/bolted in place. The wheel can "bounce" up and down as it hits potholes due to the suspension, but that axle is always going through the center of the wheel (it moves with the tire and is always in the same relative location). If it didn't, there would be a major problem as you ride. Go out and grab your front wheel and try to move it around. If you can move the wheel up and down or side to side independent of the axle, I suggest you take the bike in for service because it isn't supposed to do that.

So all that being said, since my axle is always at the center of the tire, WHY would they not work on a dynamic balancer?

That bottle/drill test is invalid for the reasons I stated - that is with a flexible "axle", which motorcycles don't have. Have you ever seen your axle move like that?

[MotorradMike]

Yes, the axle is at the center of the tire but if the tire is not balanced and is rotating then the axle is pushed up and down, resulting in a bumpy ride. Wheel balancers don't allow this motion.
It is this motion that distributes the beads such that the imbalance is nulled out and the result is a smooth ride.

Imagine the drill/bottle test with a wooden dowel in the neck so the 'axle' doesn't flop around. If the drill were mounted in a vice then the beads would not be able to balance the bottle.

[jdmetzger]

Yes, the axle is at the center of the tire but if the tire is not balanced and is rotating then the axle is pushed up and down, resulting in a bumpy ride. Wheel balancers don't allow this motion.
It is this motion that distributes the beads such that the imbalance is nulled out and the result is a smooth ride.

Imagine the drill/bottle test with a wooden dowel in the neck so the 'axle' doesn't flop around. If the drill were mounted in a vice then the beads would not be able to balance the bottle.

That "up and down" force on the axle when a wheel/tire is out of balance is how wheel balancers detect an out of balance situation in the first place. There is no other "magic" going on for them to detect this. So, if the dyna beads really worked, they would balance on a machine just the same as they would in a tire on the road.

This reminds me of a company call "Rocky Mountain Radar" who sold radar detectors and jammers. Of course, a jammer is illegal, but they sold the unit like this. It was supposed to be a "passive" jammer and scramble the signal going back to the radar gun. In the instructions they claimed that driving at one of those "you are going..." speed signs was not a valid test for some reason or another. It turns out that they were selling radar detectors with no jamming circuitry at all. This is very similar, though. Eliminate the only easy way of proving if the product works or not, include a technical description of what is happening, and wait for people to buy into it.

I think I'm going to start selling "Josh's Magic Balancing Beans". I'll just use airsoft pellets, claiming their uniform size and shape is better than dyna beads, point to truckers using similar products, and wait to make my millions. :)

[20774]

Yes, the axle is at the center of the tire but if the tire is not balanced and is rotating then the axle is pushed up and down, resulting in a bumpy ride. Wheel balancers don't allow this motion.
It is this motion that distributes the beads such that the imbalance is nulled out and the result is a smooth ride.

It would seem to me that the very large forces created by the spinning tire essentially pin down the beads to the outside of the tire, where ever they settle out. And that minor road bumps would do little to dislodge them against these large forces.

[MotorradMike]

That "up and down" force on the axle when a wheel/tire is out of balance is how wheel balancers detect an out of balance situation in the first place. There is no other "magic" going on for them to detect this. So, if the dyna beads really worked, they would balance on a machine just the same as they would in a tire on the road.



Yes, I agree the wheel balancer uses the force of the the axle against the balancer hub(force without motion) to determine where the weights should go but it does not allow the axle to actually move as it would in a suspension. If the axle can't move then the beads can't distribute to null out the imbalance. I'm not sure what would happen on a dynamic balancer but I suspect it would take a bit longer and still specify the correct weights with the beads evenly distributed in the tire and doing nothing.

How much do you want for a bag of 'Joshs magic balancing beans'? Do you have any other products that might increase fuel economy.:stick

Is there a physicist in the house? I think I get how these work but I obviously can't explain it.

[jdmetzger]

Yes, I agree the wheel balancer uses the force of the the axle against the balancer hub(force without motion) to determine where the weights should go but it does not allow the axle to actually move as it would in a suspension. If the axle can't move then the beads can't distribute to null out the imbalance. I'm not sure what would happen on a dynamic balancer but I suspect it would take a bit longer and still specify the correct weights with the beads evenly distributed in the tire and doing nothing.

How much do you want for a bag of 'Joshs magic balancing beans'? Do you have any other products that might increase fuel economy.:stick

Is there a physicist in the house? I think I get how these work but I obviously can't explain it.

Aside from magic balancing beans, I also sell magnets to put on your fuel lines which should increase mpg by 5%, and I also have a special cleaner you can put on your tires which will increase your mpg by decreasing rolling friction. It's only good for straight line application, though. :D

I wish there was an independent scientific evaluation of these beads. It's obvious that I currently don't use them because I don't believe in them working, but to be honest I wish I had the evidence I seek to prove me wrong. It would make my life easier when I change tires myself, and it would be nice to be able to ride somewhere on my GSPD, switch to knobbies, ride off road, and switch back - all without worrying about balance aside from pouring the beads in.

I eagerly await the independent testing I so desire. It would be the fastest way for "Innovating Balancing" to get my money.

[vanzen]

...8 sets of tires...Up until 5 years ago never balanced a tire. ... I ride mostly 50-60 mph...Never noticed a difference or problem....




definitely lucky, possibly insensitive,
but without a doubt, way too SLOW !!!:stick


... and I won't be putting any beads in my tires, either

[R90S]

Just for you, grafikfeat, I used the Metzeter website to ask them for a definitive answer. Anything else I can do for you, let me know.

Question:
Hello,
I'd like to know your opinion of the use of dry ceramic beads inside your tires for balancing. An example of this is Dyna Beads.
Do you have a recommendation on the use them in Metzeler tires on my motorcycles?
Thank you.

Answer:
Hello
Thanks for the e-mail and question. Metzeler suggests using the standard tire and wheel assembly balancing method of using wheel weights applied to the rim or spoke as the only approved method.
US Metzeler Moto
www.us.metzelermoto.com
877 202-4993

[keelerb]

If you ONLY use Dyna Beads, you're missing out:

Permanently Re-refines Fuel, Guaranteeing Optimal Engine Efficiency, Performance and Reduced Emissions
The commercialization of the Fitch Fuel Catalyst is a direct result of a collaborative Research Program with the Department of Defense and accredited State University that proves the Fitch Fuel Catalyst modifies fuel.


The Fitch Fuel Catalyst is NOT an additive. It is a long term fuel treatment offering a number of benefits: Insure Fuel Quality During Storage
Increase Gasoline Octane & Diesel Cetane
Improve Engine Performance (Horsepower & Torque)
Improve Fuel Economy
Reduce Emissions - Green House Gases
Reduce Engine Maintenance
Improve Oil Burner Efficiency

[Professor]

I don't know about other brands, but I just read that Dunlop will not warrantee tires that have had beads, Slime, or any other substance put in the tires.

[sumran]

I have been corresponding with the technical staff at dynabeads as a result of this thread. They indicated they have a 24-page technical paper, written by a physicist that explains the reason the beads work. I have not seen it yet, but I will share highlights of the info once they send it.

Even if there is some reason that the dynamic balancer test doesn't work, it would be easy to have a test lab document an out-of-balance condition on the motorcycle. Then the beads could be added and it could be documented that the problem was corrected. The test could be done on an airport runway so there would be no question about the surface. If that test was done properly it would remove any doubt about the products effectiveness. If I ran their company and my product worked as advertised, that is the video I would be circulating.

[jdmetzger]

I have been corresponding with the technical staff at dynabeads as a result of this thread. They indicated they have a 24-page technical paper, written by a physicist that explains the reason the beads work. I have not seen it yet, but I will share highlights of the info once they send it.

Even if there is some reason that the dynamic balancer test doesn't work, it would be easy to have a test lab document an out-of-balance condition on the motorcycle. Then the beads could be added and it could be documented that the problem was corrected. The test could be done on an airport runway so there would be no question about the surface. If that test was done properly it would remove any doubt about the products effectiveness. If I ran their company and my product worked as advertised, that is the video I would be circulating.

I look forward to seeing that article. I hope the name of the physicist is included with the technical paper. I also hope it sufficiently explains why you cannot verify the beads functionality with a dynamic balancer.

I can't figure out why they wouldn't have posted this paper on their website a while ago, unless they just had the study done.

[rado360]

What would you expect to find happening to the bike if the wheels were not balanced?I'm using the beads and feel they are working, but maybe I'm overlooking something.So what should I look for?

Thanks

[jdmetzger]

What would you expect to find happening to the bike if the wheels were not balanced?I'm using the beads and feel they are working, but maybe I'm overlooking something.So what should I look for?

Thanks

You would feel a vibration or wobble, most likely. I rode with an unbalanced TKC (ended up needing only a little weight) and I didn't even notice it much at all until after I had it balanced, and even then it wasn't extremely noticeable.

I have been thinking more about the beads and I'm still not sure I would run them. I have frequently seen that they are "not good for racing applications" where you would be braking hard into the turns (throwing the beads towards the front of the tire). This, coupled with them starting to work at 35mph and I don't think they will work for me and my riding style. Many times I'll be on a twisty road and brake before a turn (getting my speed below 35 for some of them), which would mean I'd have weight shifting around inside my tire. It doesn't seem optimal.

I'd still be interested in seeing the physics paper on the beads to see if/how they work for the rest of the time (riding straight and over 35mph).

[dbrick]

I'd still be interested in seeing the physics paper on the beads.

The physics paper? How about any physics paper?

[PMonk]

next you will try to say deer whistles don't work,
amzoil can't go 50k miles,
slick 50 plugs up your engine,
and extenze makes you smaller!

[R90S]

All users of the beads:

Did you know that you were affecting your tire warranty when you installed the beads?

Is anyone stepping up to cover you if you have a problem?

Ask the guy who sold them to you what he will do now to back up his product.

[GrafikFeat]

Just for you, grafikfeat, I used the Metzeter website to ask them for a definitive answer. Anything else I can do for you, let me know.

Yeah, wash my bike.

Again, thanks for playing.

[MotorradMike]

All users of the beads:

Did you know that you were affecting your tire warranty when you installed the beads?


No I did not but I'm not worried. I suspect this no warranty policy came about due to the clumping or abrasion issues with early internal balancing powders and glass beads. Is warranty void if you change your tire with irons on the garage floor?

My current rear tire is about 80% worn out. I'll know if the beads did anything visual when I change it next season.

The beads spend most of their time stationary WRT the tire. If they constantly rolled around perhaps they'd do some abrading.

It's just common sense that they won't do any harm.

[GrafikFeat]

All users of the beads:
Did you know that you were affecting your tire warranty when you installed the beads?
Is anyone stepping up to cover you if you have a problem?
Ask the guy who sold them to you what he will do now to back up his product.

I emailed the warranty question along w/ this text from Metzlers site:

Metzeler:
"Caution: To avoid the danger of air leakage use only weights that are recommended from the motorcycle manufacturer like spoke nipple weights,
lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights.
METZELER does not recommend the use of liquid balancers or liquid balance/sealers.
METZELER does not give warranty for tires into which these have been injected."


My reply from DynaBeads:
"We have talked to the US Metzler Rep, and the use of Dyna Beads will not void your warranty.
Notice your copy specifically says "liquid.."
Dunlop is the only mfg that will void the warranty, but this is a dealer call, and it's simple to deal with.
We advise all our dealers how to deal with this issue."

Robert
Technical Support
robert@innovativebalancing.com

He too notes the wording of liquids as I did in the earlier post.
I'm done beating the sh!t out of this topic.
Your bike... Your rules.
Do what ya want. I'm trying them next set of tires.

[R90S]

The beads spend most of their time stationary WRT the tire. If they constantly rolled around perhaps they'd do some abrading.

It's just common sense that they won't do any harm.


If your tire maintained a constant shape as it rotated, that might be true. But it doesn't.

Look at your tire where it rests on the pavement. It changes shape a little to make a contact patch. With every rotation. the tire goes into that shape and then back to its unloaded shape.

Whatever is inside the tire is getting moved around, with some force, on every rotation.

The tire manufacturers are probably not designing their tires to deal with the dynamic load of loose material on the inside of the tire. No wonder they have made those statements in their warranties.

[R90S]

I emailed the warranty question along w/ this text from Metzlers site:

Metzeler:
"Caution: To avoid the danger of air leakage use only weights that are recommended from the motorcycle manufacturer like spoke nipple weights,
lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights.
METZELER does not recommend the use of liquid balancers or liquid balance/sealers.
METZELER does not give warranty for tires into which these have been injected."


My reply from DynaBeads:
"We have talked to the US Metzler Rep, and the use of Dyna Beads will not void your warranty.
Notice your copy specifically says "liquid.."
Dunlop is the only mfg that will void the warranty, but this is a dealer call, and it's simple to deal with.
We advise all our dealers how to deal with this issue."

Robert
Technical Support
robert@innovativebalancing.com

He too notes the wording of liquids as I did in the earlier post.
I'm done beating the sh!t out of this topic.
Your bike... Your rules.
Do what ya want. I'm trying them next set of tires.

Does "Robert" from Innovative Balancing guarantee in writing that he will back up a warranty if the tire manufacturer will not?

Dunlop is the only one who will void the warranty? I looked up the policies of four of them, and the info I saw contradicts that statement. I suggest you ask the tire makers what they will do if you use the beads, not the bead makers and sellers.

Yes, it is up to each owner to decide how to run their own ride. If I were interested in this stuff, I would do the research first. Ask the tire maker, the bike maker, and the bead maker what happens if you use these beads. I wouldn't rely on hearsay from internet experts.

[GrafikFeat]

I wouldn't rely on hearsay from internet experts.

Which is exactly why I'm ignoring you.
You win the pissing contest.

I'm going for a ride.

>poof<

[jdmetzger]

I have been corresponding with the technical staff at dynabeads as a result of this thread. They indicated they have a 24-page technical paper, written by a physicist that explains the reason the beads work. I have not seen it yet, but I will share highlights of the info once they send it.

Even if there is some reason that the dynamic balancer test doesn't work, it would be easy to have a test lab document an out-of-balance condition on the motorcycle. Then the beads could be added and it could be documented that the problem was corrected. The test could be done on an airport runway so there would be no question about the surface. If that test was done properly it would remove any doubt about the products effectiveness. If I ran their company and my product worked as advertised, that is the video I would be circulating.

I don't want to revive a thread that got a bit "heated"... but I'm still curious about the beads. Has Innovative Balancing sent that technical paper?

[sumran]

I don't want to revive a thread that got a bit "heated"... but I'm still curious about the beads. Has Innovative Balancing sent that technical paper?

I never received the paper. Robert did not know it existed. I'll check email tonight for updates. The most telling thing to me is the lack of test data which should be easy to produce.

[Rollifahrer]

This thread reminds me of the heliocentric solar system debate.


Apples to oranges, but I had a vehicle on a C-30 chassis w 19.5" wheels. No ammount of traditional balancing would tame the vibration. I tried a version of beads in a metal ring that fits over the lug bolts. It works. One finger control of the steering wheel. Don't know why, just like I can't figure out exactly how mass creates gravity.

Whether they harm tires or shift during hard braking, causing bad results, are my concerns. Looking forward to emprical info on those issues.

For now bead-free, but getting really tired of the gooey stuff weights leave.

[keelerb]

I can't wait to read that paper (and the author's credentials and sampling methodology) either. But then again, I'm "Einstein," so I'm told, so an interest in applied physics would be natural I guess....

[keelerb]

Paper available yet?

[AntonLargiader]

This thread reminds me of the heliocentric solar system debate.

I wasn't around for that one, but I can just imagine the similarities. For me, the most interesting part of the thread is seeing how some people seem to take it as a personal mission to prevent others from considering the product.

The other part of the thread is just tires, so it's pretty boring.

[sumran]

I guess the paper isn't coming. I never heard from them again. It appears that if any testing is going to get done it will be done by an interested party, not the supplier.

Does anyone have an out-of-balance tire and an airport runway we can borrow?:D

[jdmetzger]

I guess the paper isn't coming. I never heard from them again. It appears that if any testing is going to get done it will be done by an interested party, not the supplier.

Does anyone have an out-of-balance tire and an airport runway we can borrow?:D

:ha

A well-qualified INDEPENDENT physicists would do, as well. :)

The fact that they aren't jumping to prove to anyone that their product works speaks volumes, in my opinion. It's not like emailing a document would be any sort of burden. They're probably busy with more marketing hype. :heh

[Rollifahrer]

:ha

A well-qualified INDEPENDENT physicists would do, as well. :)

The fact that they aren't jumping to prove to anyone that their product works speaks volumes, in my opinion. It's not like emailing a document would be any sort of burden. They're probably busy with more marketing hype. :heh


This and similar posts speak volumes about the level of disrespect for fellow riders and members. Posts with positive comments are by guys who actually tried them. The derogatory comments about the product and company are theoretical in nature. Scientific papers are historically not the beat-all end-all solutions some believe them to be. Copernicus applied mathematics to astronomy to prove the actual place of the earth in the solar system, but nearly a century later scientists, most famously Galileo, were still being ridiculed and persecuted for advancing that theory. For several hundred years there was abundant anecdotal evidence that the earth was not flat, but seafarers returning from journies well beyond the horizon were derided when they claimed they sailed for days and did not find the edge.

This thead is now about skepticism and zealotry. The former is usually healthy, the latter usually not. I think the zeal to disprove and/or discredit the pro side of this discussion is energy misspent. "Thank you" to the early posters who were willing to share their experiences. "Thank you" to the other side for confirming one of the fatal flaws of human nature.

While I would like to see a scientific paper on the topic, I'm not 100% sure I would be able to follow every argument and therefore unable to determine its validity, and could quite possibly find erroneous cause to discount the conclusion. Maybe that's one reason the beads people aren't willing to jump through that hoop. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the beads people are aware of their liability should it be proven their product causes harm. Since they, and their insurance carrier, have so much to lose, there appears to be risk assessment evidence that beads are at least safe if not effective. So I would encourage the naysayers to give them a try, or at least give due respect to those who have.

[Rich]

For me, the most interesting part of the thread is seeing how some people seem to take it as a personal mission to prevent others from considering the product.

Amazing, isn't it? :scratch

[20774]

For me, the most interesting part of the thread is seeing how some people seem to take it as a personal mission to prevent others from considering the product.

When did anyone PREVENT anyone from considering the product? People are expressing opinions, founded on science or not, based upon their own personal use or not. That's all I've seen... Read and accept what you want. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head.

[keelerb]

I do apologize if I said anything that offended anyone. That was not my intent.

I am more than a little dubious of the merits of this product, but I intended only to poke a little gentle fun, not to insult anyone.

I do believe there was a little vitriol going the other way too, but I will assume good will on their part as well.

Ride safe all.

[kgadley01]

an independent lab tested the beads. I used to have the Article but can't find it now. they put a wheel W/ tire on a speed balancer and ran it up to 70 mph. it showed the wheel and tire needed 2 oz of weight to be balanced. they then repeated the process using Dyna Beads installed per directions on the package. they spun the wheel & tire again up to 70mph and the machine said they still needed 2 oz of weight. I do my own balanceing and I still use stick on weights. if something works, why mess with it... :thumb

[MotorradMike]

If the axle is held rigidly(as on a dynamic balancer) then the dyna-beads simply distribute themselves evenly around the inside of the tire. The fact that the balancer still indicated the same with the beads in actually shows they don't affect a balanced tire.

[R90S]

an independent lab tested the beads. I used to have the Article but can't find it now.

Here's the summation at the end of the article written by Dave Searle for Motorcyle Consumer News, published Oct. 2006, page 48:

"Taking the bike out on the road, repeating the same stretch of freeway several times at speeds up to 85mph, the beaded tire felt heavier, with a strong sense of gyro stability, but was noticeably less smooth running than when factory balanced, but perhaps just slightly better than with the original weights removed." (no rim weights OR beads installed)
"Our advice: Go for a proper spin balance when you buy tires; it's more effective."

[kgadley01]

Here's the summation at the end of the article written by Dave Searle for Motorcyle Consumer News, published Oct. 2006, page 48:

"Taking the bike out on the road, repeating the same stretch of freeway several times at speeds up to 85mph, the beaded tire felt heavier, with a strong sense of gyro stability, but was noticeably less smooth running than when factory balanced, but perhaps just slightly better than with the original weights removed." (no rim weights OR beads installed)
"Our advice: Go for a proper spin balance when you buy tires; it's more effective."

+1 :thumb

[sumran]

Here's the summation at the end of the article written by Dave Searle for Motorcyle Consumer News, published Oct. 2006, page 48:

" the beaded tire felt heavier..."

It takes a more accomplished rider than me to feel a difference of one ounce in a tire.;) I understand feeling the balance, but feeling the weight would be impressive. I guess a highly tuned race bike and and expert rider may be able to notice the difference.

[GrafikFeat]

It takes a more accomplished rider than me to feel a difference of one ounce in a tire.;) I understand feeling the balance, but feeling the weight would be impressive. I guess a highly tuned race bike and and expert rider may be able to notice the difference.

+1... I'm sure there are some things going on that we subconsciously correct.

I have noticed on other boards folks who have tried them like them. More so than ones who've said they felt unsafe and removed them.
I think it's a fairly new concept and we'll see what time tells.
I'll also add that the quality/build of tires has increased dramatically. To the point that sometimes all you need is a little piece of sticky backed weight.

This whole subject is way over thought and it's become a battle of opinions. :hungover

Bottom line... Your bike, your rules. Do with it what you want.

[ronniesanders]

I've had dyna beads in both tires and have just a little over 10000 miles on them. I'm about to change the rear tire and will be putting the dyna beads back in. I also ran the tires with no weights when first installed and my bike was pretty smooth with nothing? How ever I wanted to get as much mileage out of them as possible and felt like the dyna beads would help. I still feel that they have helped make the tires last longer and it rides as good as when they were new. I like them and for the cost it's a great deal. If I can get 10000 miles out of every rear tire I'll be happy. Once a year is ok with me. I'm riding a K1200LT.

[mmmalmberg]

Not that this thread needs any more replies:) But I'm with Jon-Lars earlier post.


"Balance your tires correctly in the first place.

This stuff is a poor answer to a non-problem.
__________________
Jon-Lars "

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've just never had a problem with out-of-balance tires. Shops always seem to do a good job, and I've never really experienced anything that seemed like a balance problem in over 35 years of riding. In the pre-tubeless days we used to just find the seam in the tire and put it opposite the valve stem and that was it.

Now I'm not saying there's no possibility the product could work. I don't see how it would, but that doesn't mean it couldn't. I just feel like it's not solving a problem for me, and adds a little bit of weight and a little bit of abrasion that is not really buying me anything. But, to each his own.

[de Razendebol]

I just did the change my self after 7300km replaced the REAR Conti TKC 80 Twinduro on my R1200GSA took off the 60gram from the rim and used the beats 3OZ so far no diff, did speed up to 150km :whistle just for testing, did the 60km, 80, and 100-120 clicks no dif. in the ride, I guess they do the job.

good luck

[20774]

It seemed to work on your GSA...have you had a chance to try it on your /6?

[stanley83]

I recently changed the tires and tubes on my R75/6. I decided to try the Dyna Beads at the same time, ordering 4oz., enough for the Beemer as well as my Vespa P200. They don't recommend them for tires smaller than 10", so the Vespa VBB will have to go on unbalanced.

The new Avons didn't have a painted dot, so I guessed and used the orange sticker as the spot to put by the valve hole. I took a ride up to and back from Max BMW, about 100 miles, mostly highway, and the balance feels fine.

Dyna recommends using an electric engraver to get the beads into the tubes. I don't have one, but I do have an Oster hand massager and it worked just fine.

[TomBarnhart]

Motortcycle Consumer News gave them a bad review. Puts them in the same category as Snake Oil. Last issue had a scathing rant from the manufacturer about how good their product was, but they were unable to refute any of the MCN findings.

Conclusion: trust an independent reviewer, not someone who invested their money and refuses to admit they were scammed or the company doing the scamming

[kgadley01]

Motortcycle Consumer News gave them a bad review. Puts them in the same category as Snake Oil. Last issue had a scathing rant from the manufacturer about how good their product was, but they were unable to refute any of the MCN findings.

Conclusion: trust an independent reviewer, not someone who invested their money and refuses to admit they were scammed or the company doing the scamming

+1 I've been saying that for years. I don't understand what the big deal is about a couple of weights on your rims. if a little common sense, and lighter fluid are used, its possible to apply and remove weights with no damage to the rim.:thumb

[rdalland]

If anyone wants to read the article and come to their own conclusions about what the article says, send me a PM and I will send a pdf copy.

PM your email address if you want a copy.

[AntonLargiader]

I'd sort of back-burnered the beads issue but it's time to revisit it. Lead weights are NLA from BMW, I can't stand the thought of using tape-a-weights, and the Wurth weights are just as expensive as BMW's were.

So when I get around to it, but soon, I'll be buying some beads. I understand the principle, no problem, and I can probably come up with a way to test them.

[beemerguru]

In the last month, I've put them in both the G/S and the KRS. Also have them in the 6 Series. Smooth rides on all and no issues with speed or handling...even the big fat things during "excessive" speed 4 wheel drifts.

Just my experience.

[Happy Wanderer]

I heard an interesting comment from a tire vendor at the MOA rally last weekend. He said that today's tires are so much better than before due to manufacturing and technology improvements which makes balancing a much smaller problem than it used to be. The tires come out pretty well balanced nowadays.

I know of a couple of people that have balanced their alloy rims WITHOUT the tires on them and then simply mount their own tires making sure the tire valve dot is in the right spot and just ride them like that without any further balancing.
No reported problems.

Kinda makes sense that if the tires are made so well now and don't have the anomalies that old tires had making balancing a must, why worry about it? Just balance the rims empty.

[kgadley01]

I balance all my own tires. from my experience Metzeler's rarely need much if any weight. on the other hand the last 3 or 4 Avons I've balanced have needed 1/2 to 1 1/2 oz of weight...

[From MARS]

[QUOTE=156327;600723]

I know of a couple of people that have balanced their alloy rims WITHOUT the tires on them and then simply mount their own tires making sure the tire valve dot is in the right spot and just ride them like that without any further balancing.
No reported problems.

QUOTE]

I've heard two different opinions on placement of "the dot". Where does the dot go?

Tom

[skiteach]

Valve stem

[kantuckid]

I have posted re, my experience with the beads several times prior,but here goes again: the bikes/tires that I have used them on were smooth and the tires lasted just as long as many I read about online,IOW, they work for me.I don't care what your physics book says,or your neighbor, they flat work! Couple years ago I bought a larger bag on a ADVrider group/bulk buy and thus they are really cheap to use and not a lot of trouble to dump in a few either.
While I'm actually not a recruiter for the Sierra Club(eg, I cut down trees!),the environmental issues for lead weights are quite real and the beads easily get past that issue.So, it isn't just about you or me and how we balance our tires, it is an "us" thing! I have encouraged others to google lead weight issues and still some persist in defending their use in spite of the evidence. Subaru and perhaps other vehicle mfg's have made the switch away from lead.Maybe it is time that you did the same?:nono
Now , are there any oil threads to join in?

[Rad]

. Subaru and perhaps other vehicle mfg's have made the switch away from lead.Maybe it is time that you did the same?:nono
Now , are there any oil threads to join in?

Lead weights are no longer legal to use on cars or M/C wheels in California. There are non lead alternatives available. Me, I'm a bad man, I'm using up my supply of lead weights before I save the world.:nyah

[tricyclerob]

Jon-Lars,

I first thought they were Voodoo, but I've now been using them for 5-6 years in a number of bikes, tubed and tubeless.

The advantage I see is:

1. no weights to lose, or come off as I have had happen with stick-on weights on cast wheels, and,
2. they continue to balance, even after tire wear which "regular" weights do not.

I see no down side. I don't understand the physics, but they work. At least for me, anyway. I normally stick to traditional methods until something better comes along.
Beads of similar nature have been used in the trucking industry for years. What makes "Dynabeads" different is they are ceramic, and do not wear.
rj

[kgadley01]

This may be a silly question, but I just gotta ask... wouldn't BB's do the same thing??? and if not, why not???

[tommcgee]

This may be a silly question, but I just gotta ask... wouldn't BB's do the same thing??? and if not, why not???

Naw. Use golf balls. :D

[skiteach]

Naw. Use golf balls.
Won't go thru my valve stems:stick

[tommcgee]

Naw. Use golf balls.
Won't go thru my valve stems:stick

Gettin' the dynabeads through there is no picnic either. :bluduh

[From MARS]

I just put a set of used (400 mi.) Michelin Anakee's on the new-to-me '02 F650GS. I didn't put in the DynaBeads so I could see how the tires felt without them. There was no "dot" nor mark to reference valve stem position so I just put them on. They feel pretty good up to 80. Tomorrow, I'll put in the beads, and we'll have another opinion that doesn't mean anything.:D I believe the beads work, based on previous use, and I just paid $20 for a new bag of beads; so I want them to work. All of which may bias my opinion, thus rendering it even less relevant. But I'll give it to you anyway.:D

Tom

[kgadley01]

But to repeat my question, would BB's also work??? their small and round right?

[From MARS]

BB's would work, but I think the efficiency would be reduced due to the space between the larger spheres. But that's just a guess.

[glenfiddich]

Gettin' the dynabeads through there is no picnic either. :bluduh

It's very easy to get them thru the valve stem if you let them trickle in. If I get a jam up, simply tapping on the stem with a screwdriver clears it in a few seconds.

[kantuckid]

I cannot speak for BB's in tires but they are great in BB guns. As a youth lots of sparrows lived in fear of me! I have read that soft pellets-the yellow sort of plastic ones- have been used successfully by others in bike tires and autos. They just chuck them in at tire mounting time.If you read the Dyna Bead material , it states that these will not ballance wide/ low profile tires as found on many autos today.
As points already well made, there are lots of reasons why the beads make sense. I have followed bead threads here and ADVrider and it gets "kindly comical", as my KS neighbor used to say.:buds

[From MARS]

I cannot speak for BB's in tires but they are great in BB guns. As a youth lots of sparrows lived in fear of me! I have read that soft pellets-the yellow sort of plastic ones- have been used successfully by others in bike tires and autos. They just chuck them in at tire mounting time.If you read the Dyna Bead material , it states that these will not ballance wide/ low profile tires as found on many autos today.
As points already well made, there are lots of reasons why the beads make sense. I have followed bead threads here and ADVrider and it gets "kindly comical", as my KS neighbor used to say.:buds

I'm still haunted by the spirits of those that met their demise as the result of my deadly aim.:D I've also got the scar from when my brother shot me while we were playing Cowboys and Indians. It sometimes amazes me that we lived thru our youth.:groovy

I told y'all I'd give you my totally biased evaluation of the DynaBeads when I put them in. Well, they're in, and I rode 200mi. today. At 80mph, going down wind (30mph wind), with the clutch pulled in, and the engine at idle, there is absolutely no vibration.

They work!:clap

Tom

[boxermaf]

Assuming that the tire/wheel had an imbalance/vibration in it before you put them in? And, if you had any wheel weights attached to the wheel, you removed them as well?

[From MARS]

Assuming that the tire/wheel had an imbalance/vibration in it before you put them in? And, if you had any wheel weights attached to the wheel, you removed them as well?

When I put on the "new" tires, I took two 20gr weights off the rear and two 15gr weights off the front. Without any weights, there was a very slight vibration when coasting at 75mph.

Tom

[Happy Wanderer]

When I put on the "new" tires, I took two 20gr weights off the rear and two 15gr weights off the front. Without any weights, there was a very slight vibration when coasting at 75mph.

Tom

This bead thing is one of "those" topics I think. You know, like oil, tires and shocks. The outcome seems to rely on personal experience and the critics get cynical over lack of "real" proof. One tends to read mostly about things that go wrong and things that don't work in forums and not so much about the happy endings.

With the Dyna Beads, I have read a ton of posts here and elsewhere that simply say they work. So I think I will just go ahead and remove my lead weights and try them. I want to start buying my tires from the wholesaler and doing my own changes anyway and a balancer is another tool and another expense so why not?

Oh yeah. One more thing. I need to quit reading oil, tire, shock and bead posts! :wave

[R184]

I talked to a couple of "factory" tire reps at the rally concerning the beads. Seems the "factory" types don't like the beads. The biggist agrument against the beads was if you use them, "they" won't honor the warranty on your tires. They claim the beads don't work and actually sand blast the inner liner on your tires. I don't buy the sand blasting part, but the no warrenty part got my attention.

I talked to several end users, who liked them and said they worked. I did buy some dynabeads, but still not sure if I'll use them or not.:scratch

[535is]

I talked to a couple of "factory" tire reps at the rally concerning the beads. Seems the "factory" types don't like the beads. The biggist agrument against the beads was if you use them, "they" won't honor the warranty on your tires. They claim the beads don't work and actually sand blast the inner liner on your tires. I don't buy the sand blasting part, but the no warrenty part got my attention.

I talked to several end users, who liked them and said they worked. I did buy some dynabeads, but still not sure if I'll use them or not.:scratch

Well, it's awfully hard to sand blast anything behind a rubber barrier - and there aren't many Airhead wheels that will handle tubeless tires. Put 'em inside the tubes ...

[From MARS]

Well, it's awfully hard to sand blast anything behind a rubber barrier - and there aren't many Airhead wheels that will handle tubeless tires. Put 'em inside the tubes ...

When I had the PD, I used them in Gripsters, tubeless, and in Sahara's, tubed. The 650 is tubed. I haven't pulled beads out of a tube, yet, but when I took them out of the Gripsters to reuse, there wasn't a bunch of rubber dust. There were a few rubber beads mixed in with the ceramic ones. Rest assured, the tread will wear down before the beads ever get a chance to damage the inside.

I talked to a couple of "factory" tire reps at the rally concerning the beads. Seems the "factory" types don't like the beads. The biggist agrument against the beads was if you use them, "they" won't honor the warranty on your tires. They claim the beads don't work and actually sand blast the inner liner on your tires. I don't buy the sand blasting part, but the no warrenty part got my attention.

I talked to several end users, who liked them and said they worked. I did buy some dynabeads, but still not sure if I'll use them or not.:scratch

This may be a case of "follow the money" and supporting the dealers. If people know that they can use the beads instead of taking the tire to a dealer for balancing, they may decide to change their own tires. But, if a manufacturer failed to honor a warranty issue on a tire because I had used beads, then they would lose a customer. I avg 3 tire changes a year, and I always change both at the same time. That'd be a lot of money I'd rather spend on gas wearing out tires.:) Besides, its over 100 miles to a dealer.

Everybody has to make up their own mind. To bead or not to bead; that is the question.

Tom

[kantuckid]

The truth is they(tire sellers & makers) will do anything to avoid a warranty tire situation. Most tires don't have a warranty anymore anyway! If they did sell one it would just make them more $! When they did have it ,it was hardly ever of value. Remeber the old song,"you ran it low"! I will not live long enough to ever collect on a tire. As to the scientist above , asking if there was imbalance prior to installation, you are missing the point that tires do not wear evenly in the first place, even when in balance from the factory or as installed.
I have posted this query before the recent tire article in ON, which failed to answer my question, re, tire manufacture these days vs the past. I worked in a Goodyear plant for years and was a mechanic that saw it all in the whole 75 acre plant. I left in 1973 and when I left tires were still a handmade affair what with the tire builder "laying on" each ply layer and so forth. I am curious if anymore precision has been applied to that process, or if it is still subject to wide ply/open or pulled splices and other common defects. I know I still see many defects of that era in car tires, such as open ply splices when walking by a tire. Most of those defects lead to some imbalance or loss of the desired dynamics within the tires carcass.Goodyear had a "Force Variation " machine that measured the carcass dynamics of every auto (not large truck or earthmover)tire that went out. Tires don't just get molded and spit out the other end of the plant. We still see them laying all over the road in pieces too. Sure tread compounds have obviously improved but I want to hear something that has the DETAILS! that are not usually public information about modern tires?
Any inside tire people out there? :wave

[boxermaf]

I am not a tire person, but with the possible exceptions of limited production/specialty racing tires, and custom machined tires for large earth-moving equipment, I believe that tire manufacturing is a largely automated process these days. I say this because I used to design general purpose industrial motion controllers (robotics) for Rockwell/Allen-Bradley, and many thousands of these products have been in use in Bridgestone/Firestone, Goodyear, Michelin and other tire factories around the world since the 1990s. I've seen a number of them in action at tire factories - and I don't envy the people who have to work in tire factories either! I've helped the manufacturing engineers debug programs that wound/laid the belt patterns for tires, ran the mould controls and even machines/routed out the tread patterns on large (> 3 meter diameter) heavy equipment tires. But, my areas of expertise are in computers and robotics, not tire design.

[154048]

The question out here is 'where does one get Dynabeads'? All the local dealers either haven't heard of them or just don't carry the product....

[photorider]

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do;jsessionid=3E014C561FFBBA53F0EBB2 02978E6C24.westring1?webCatId=8&webTypeId=137&navTitle=TiresandWheels&navType=type&prodFamilyId=23684&stockId=191336&ref=gmc

[GrafikFeat]

The question out here is 'where does one get Dynabeads'?
All the local dealers either haven't heard of them or just don't carry the product....

Try [GOOGLE] (http://tinyurl.com/2f95snx) ? :brow

[troyboy]

When installing beads,they tend to jam up a bit. I used an electric engraver. While pouring them into the stem,just touch the engraver on the hose and they flow right in. I've read post on serveral boards and thought I'd give a try when I replaced my front tire on my /7. The beads work fine for me.

[From MARS]

When putting in this last dose of beads, I learned that, when they start to build up in the tube, all I had to do was squeeze and release the little plastic bottle, and the beads would be sucked up into the tube. A couple of cycles of squeeze/release would clear the blockage, and I could resume slowly pouring them into the tire.

Tom

[kantuckid]

I am not a tire person, but with the possible exceptions of limited production/specialty racing tires, and custom machined tires for large earth-moving equipment, I believe that tire manufacturing is a largely automated process these days. I say this because I used to design general purpose industrial motion controllers (robotics) for Rockwell/Allen-Bradley, and many thousands of these products have been in use in Bridgestone/Firestone, Goodyear, Michelin and other tire factories around the world since the 1990s. I've seen a number of them in action at tire factories - and I don't envy the people who have to work in tire factories either! I've helped the manufacturing engineers debug programs that wound/laid the belt patterns for tires, ran the mould controls and even machines/routed out the tread patterns on large (> 3 meter diameter) heavy equipment tires. But, my areas of expertise are in computers and robotics, not tire design.
I'll say again that I walk by tires now, mounted on parked cars and "see defects"(for a short while I was a tire inspector , having departed my skilled trades apprenticeship for the Army & momentarily they made me do it until the classes cycled around) so that must mean the machines/controls that you reference don't work any better, in some respects than the tire builder laying on the plies as in the past?There have been controls that rotated the tire machine drum for a long time-but the builder made the actual ply splice with his hands. I wonder if Goodyear installed your "stuff" on the "G" machine that was used for building tractor fronts in the past? It had a patent date of prior to the great depression...:thumb

[kantuckid]

The question out here is 'where does one get Dynabeads'? All the local dealers either haven't heard of them or just don't carry the product....
As stated :google and just buy them straight from Dynabead & while your at it , read their website info & when you get done with that go to www.advrider.com and check to see if there is a group buy going on. I have a bunch! in a bag and weigh them out as needed. I think Cycle Gadgets has them too.
I'll say again what was stated earlier in this thread-use a squeeze bottle with a tube connected to the valve stem & simply tap with a screwdiver as they roll in.You don't need engravers ,etc.. This can be done while laying on a creeper and trying to stay awake,watching TV, or downing a cold one. Static is the real issue as the beads are tiny & going slow makes the job go faster.:thumb

[Happy Wanderer]

I bought some Dyna Beads yesterday from BestRest Products in Seattle. Just over $16 and they come in a handy pre marked installation flexible clear hose. I'm going to give them a spin and see what happens. Here's a site link and no I don't work for them or any of that sort of stuff.
http://www.bestrestproducts.com/c-100-dyna-beads.aspx

I am just curious to see if they work. Who needs lead if you can avoid it?