Get a free car

[lightning]

Here's how you get a free car--buy 1,000 shares of GM stock at $3.00. Go down to your local GM dealer and buy a GM car. Wait two years and sell your stock for $30,000.

There's one bet involved--will we loan GM a little money or not? The answer is yes, we will.

:whistle

[Easy]

Here's how you get a free car--buy 1,000 shares of GM stock at $3.00. Go down to your local GM dealer and buy a GM car. Wait two years and sell your stock for $30,000.

There's one bet involved--will we loan GM a little money or not? The answer is yes, we will.

:whistle


Looks like Congress is not going to do anything before the next term, and perhaps nothing then, see today’s N.Y. Times and Wall Street Journal articles. According to CNN it seems the president wants to tie the issue to free trade with Columbia legislation. That's all I need more coffee to keep me awake at night worrying about the market.

My guess it that we will have an automotive bailout bill sometime next year, and like the financial bailout bill it will most likely have some pork for all. :eat

Easy :german

[jdmetzger]

Here's how you get a free car--buy 1,000 shares of GM stock at $3.00. Go down to your local GM dealer and buy a GM car. Wait two years and sell your stock for $30,000.

There's one bet involved--will we loan GM a little money or not? The answer is yes, we will.

:whistle

There is another way this could go down:

Buy 100 shares of GM stock at $3/share

Go to GM dealer and buy a GM car

Wait two years. Company is out of business. You're out $3000

You still get to pay for the car you purchased which now has limited warranty coverage.

[OHScot]

Plan 3 don't purchase an american car but buy stock in plywood. Make a fortune when Detroit & Toledo are boarded up like Flint.



Wonder if I have taken part in my first doghouse thread??:lurk

[widebmw]

Clubhouse
General discussion about BMW motorcycles and MOA clubs.

[RJM2096]

I could be possible the the BIG THREE will sell out. They could file bankruptcy and dischare their pension liability and union contracts. Their assets would be sold to a new buyer (probably Chinese). GMC/Chrysler/Ford could come back making the same cars with new owners and lower costs. If they get The goverment loans will proably go for wages and benefits. I doubt the loans would lead to any increase in quality or innovations.

[AZ Greg]

Clubhouse
General discussion about BMW motorcycles and MOA clubs.

This isn't the Clubhouse, it's the Campfire (for everything else).

[rocketman]

This isn't the Clubhouse, it's the Campfire (for everything else).

that's because I moved it here from where it was started.

RM

[The_Veg]

Here's how you get a free car--buy 1,000 shares of GM stock at $3.00. Go down to your local GM dealer and buy a GM car. Wait two years and sell your stock for $30,000.

There's one bet involved--will we loan GM a little money or not? The answer is yes, we will.

:whistle

I'd rather wait until I cashed-out to buy the car (which probably wouldn't be a GM product), and pay for it with the proceeds. Not that I cold afford to buy any serious amount of shares or want to take such a gamble.

[BeemerMike]

According to CNN it seems the president wants to tie the issue to free trade with Columbia legislation. That's all I need more coffee to keep me awake at night worrying about the market.

Colombia already has free trade access to the U.S. for its products. The pending Colombian Free Trade Agreement with the U.S. would allow free trade access to Colombia for U.S. products, but is held up in Congress.

[jdmetzger]

Plan 3 don't purchase an american car but buy stock in plywood. Make a fortune when Detroit & Toledo are boarded up like Flint.



Wonder if I have taken part in my first doghouse thread??:lurk

Flint will be abandoned, Detroit will be in bad shape - maybe some plywood could get some use there. Toledo isn't all automotive. Are there are lot of suppliers here? Yes. We also have one GM trans factory and the venerable Jeep complex. If GM goes the town won't shut down, and Chrysler/Ford are in better shape for getting through the rough patches. Toledo has things like First Solar (solar panels, of course), Owens Corning (fiberglass), Owens Illinois (glass - now in a close suburb), and other "anchor" businesses that will hold things down. I'm not so worried since I'm not going to be here long, but I have no concerns that Toledo is going to turn into Flint if GM closes. I got myself out of an automotive-based job a year ago, anyways. :)

Heck, Flint looked bad when I was up there 7+ years ago and all the GM plants were open. Drive through Detroit and you'll see loads of closed factories that have been there for YEARS.

[108625]

Flint will be abandoned, Detroit will be in bad shape - maybe some plywood could get some use there. Toledo isn't all automotive. Are there are lot of suppliers here? Yes. We also have one GM trans factory and the venerable Jeep complex. If GM goes the town won't shut down, and Chrysler/Ford are in better shape for getting through the rough patches. Toledo has things like First Solar (solar panels, of course), Owens Corning (fiberglass), Owens Illinois (glass - now in a close suburb), and other "anchor" businesses that will hold things down. I'm not so worried since I'm not going to be here long, but I have no concerns that Toledo is going to turn into Flint if GM closes. I got myself out of an automotive-based job a year ago, anyways. :)

Heck, Flint looked bad when I was up there 7+ years ago and all the GM plants were open. Drive through Detroit and you'll see loads of closed factories that have been there for YEARS.


My hometown of Pittsburgh survived losing most of the steel industry. It just takes time.

[MotorradMike]

Here's how you get a free car--buy 1,000 shares of GM stock at $3.00. Go down to your local GM dealer and buy a GM car. Wait two years and sell your stock for $30,000.

There's one bet involved--will we loan GM a little money or not? The answer is yes, we will.

:whistle

Sounds like a good bet. Only problem is - you're stuck with a GM car.

[OHScot]

Flint will be abandoned, Detroit will be in bad shape - maybe some plywood could get some use there. Toledo isn't all automotive. Are there are lot of suppliers here? Yes. We also have one GM trans factory and the venerable Jeep complex. If GM goes the town won't shut down, and Chrysler/Ford are in better shape for getting through the rough patches. Toledo has things like First Solar (solar panels, of course), Owens Corning (fiberglass), Owens Illinois (glass - now in a close suburb), and other "anchor" businesses that will hold things down. I'm not so worried since I'm not going to be here long, but I have no concerns that Toledo is going to turn into Flint if GM closes. I got myself out of an automotive-based job a year ago, anyways. :)

Heck, Flint looked bad when I was up there 7+ years ago and all the GM plants were open. Drive through Detroit and you'll see loads of closed factories that have been there for YEARS.


Was in Toledo about 7 years ago, downtown was pretty quiet on a nice Saturday night like dead, hope it has picked up. Tony Packo's was hopping though. Really nice out west along the lake? river flats? Still worried about the american auto industry, few realize how deep it cuts into our economy. Flint was always ugly apologies to those who live in the area.

[jdmetzger]

Was in Toledo about 7 years ago, downtown was pretty quiet on a nice Saturday night like dead, hope it has picked up. Tony Packo's was hopping though. Really nice out west along the lake? river flats? Still worried about the american auto industry, few realize how deep it cuts into our economy. Flint was always ugly apologies to those who live in the area.

They're slowly making progress downtown. They built a stadium in the middle of downtown for the Mud Hens, and a new area is going up downtown for our Hockey team, as well. Both of those will do a lot of good. They also now have some nice restaurants on the east side of the river overlooking downtown, and they are doing good business. The next step is building a "Marina District". The land is cleared but things are taking too much time, for me. It will be nice returning to Toledo in a few years and seeing the progress made. Toledo has treated me well and I have no hard feelings, but the house is going up for sale next spring; good economy or bad.

[GrafikFeat]

I'm Changing My Name to Chrysler :usa
by Tom Paxton :whistle

Oh the price of gold is rising out of sight
And the dollar is in sorry shape tonight
What the dollar used to get us
Now won't buy a head of lettuce
No the economic forecast isn't right
But amidst the clouds I spot a shining ray

I can even glimpse a new and better way
And I've demised a plan of action
Worked it down to the last fraction
And I'm going into action here today

CHORUS:
I am changing my name to Chrysler
I am going down to Washington D.C.
I will tell some power broker
What they did for Iacocca
Will be perfectly acceptable to me
I am changing my name to Chrysler
I am headed for that great receiving line
So when they hand a million grand out
I'll be standing with my hand out
Yes sire I'll get mine

When my creditors are screaming for their dough
I'll be proud to tell them all where they can all go
They won't have to scream and holler
They'll be paid to the last dollar
Where the endless streams of money seem to flow
I'll be glad to tell them what they can do
It's a matter of a simple form or two
It's not just renumeration it's a liberal education
Ain't you kind of glad that I'm in debt to you

CHORUS

Since the first amphibians crawled out of the slime
We've been struggling in an unrelenting climb
We were hardly up and walking before money started talking
And it's sad that failure is an awful crime
Well it's been that way for a millenium or two
But now it seems that there's a different point of view
If you're a corporate titanic and your failure is gigantic
Down to congress there's a safety net for you

CHORUS


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[Easy]

Colombia already has free trade access to the U.S. for its products. The pending Colombian Free Trade Agreement with the U.S. would allow free trade access to Colombia for U.S. products, but is held up in Congress.

Although Bush (W) signed a tentative agreement, he still needs congressional approval. Bush sent the implementing legislation to Congress in April of this year where it remains unapproved. See www.export.gov./fta/columbia/


Easy :german

[GrafikFeat]

Bush signed a tentative agreement he still needs congressional approval. Bush sent the implementing legislation to Congress in April of this year where it remains unapproved.

Who? :scratch

[bullit7801]

Who? :scratchRemember, folks. Even though the election is over, W. is still our president until January 20th of next year. He still has the chance to do a lot of good, ......or bad, before he leaves the White House.

Personally, I hope we don't bail out the automakers. Their business model is broken and more cash probably won't help. It will hurt a lot of people, but a complete restructuring under Chapter 11 would probably help the USA in the long run.

Full disclosure: I am the not so proud owner of 100 shares of Ford which would be worthless in a Chapter 11.

tb

[OHScot]

They're slowly making progress downtown. They built a stadium in the middle of downtown for the Mud Hens, and a new area is going up downtown for our Hockey team, as well. Both of those will do a lot of good. They also now have some nice restaurants on the east side of the river overlooking downtown, and they are doing good business. The next step is building a "Marina District". The land is cleared but things are taking too much time, for me. It will be nice returning to Toledo in a few years and seeing the progress made. Toledo has treated me well and I have no hard feelings, but the house is going up for sale next spring; good economy or bad.

Cincinnati has been working on a riverfront development since I began my work career. People have forgotten how much money was wasted throwing business off the riverfront property. Now they have almost agreed to begin. I will probably retire before it is done and I have another 20 years to work.

And in the spirit of full disclosure I also own Ford stock.

Scot

[jdmetzger]

Cincinnati has been working on a riverfront development since I began my work career. People have forgotten how much money was wasted throwing business off the riverfront property. Now they have almost agreed to begin. I will probably retire before it is done and I have another 20 years to work.

And in the spirit of full disclosure I also own Ford stock.

Scot

It seems all these projects end up taking too long. The stadium and arena are going well, but yeah - they finally finished clearing the land. Much of it was the former site of a hockey arena, so that made clearing space pretty easy. I have some negative feelings about what they are trying to accomplish, how they are doing it, and WHERE they are doing it. I just don't see it ever really taking off the way they think it should. I think it will be OK, but never the huge draw they expect. Location, location, location.

You're probably in OK shape with Ford stock. They still own their financing arm (which is profitable), so they can keep injecting money into the automotive side. Their cash reserves are also better. GM sold off GMAC and has very few cash reserves left. I've been doing a lot of reading about GM, people not wanting to buy cars from a Chapter 11 company, and the fact that even if they go to Chapter 11, they still have the huge problem of cars people really don't want or can no longer afford the fuel for. Ford is also close to bringing some newer fuel-efficient euro cars to the US market (read it on my own and someone else talked about it on another forum) so I think they may make it through this storm, though there will still need to be some downsizing.

All of those companies need to work on some restructuring. About 7-8 years ago I worked for EDS who had me doing IT work for GM. I saw so much money being wasted and poor management. They even paid the contracting company to pay me to sit around for 3 months at home because they were eventually going to need me, but didn't get their end of things completed. They were throwing a lot of money away. I could go on and on and on about the automotive companies, though. I know it will be a major blow to the economy if one of the "big 3" go away, but it may also help out the other 2. We shall see. It's going to be interesting.

FYI: As far as I know I do not own any automotive stock. My cage wears a blue oval, though.

[jdmetzger]

Here (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081113/AUTO01/811130413/1148/rss25) is a good article from the Detroit News regarding some of what Ford is trying to do to turn their business around. Interesting read. Things like this make me hopeful, but at the same time some of the things they mention GM doing doesn't sound good at all for them.

[The_Veg]

About 7-8 years ago I worked for EDS

You too, huh? I was at the 'mothership' campus in Plano 2000-2002, working as a 'Tape-Ape' on the mainframe floor. The biggest storage system we had on the floor was the GM system which consisted of something like 8 StorageTek Timberline library units. It was frikkin' huge and it ran all of GM's assembly plants. If it went down, GM would fine us $1.2 MILLION a DAY until it was back up.

[john1691]

I say let them go chapter 11, break the union contracts and drop health insurance for retirees. Pay a decent wage, more in line with other industry, and keep building cars that people want to buy, not what is mandated. US auto makers can build a great product, it's the goverment and unions that cause the problems. We (York, PA) had a huge Caterpillar plant that employed thousands. The union decided that corporate was too greedy, and decided to strike so they wouldn't have to contribute to healthcare and for better wages. After a year or so, the plant closed and operations were moved out of state/country. The impact on the local economy was huge.

If you work for a publically held corporation, buy stock, and vote at the shareholders meetings. Hold management accountable. Stop the huge bonuses, but also stop the unions from pushing for hourly wages that can't be competative in a world ecomony. We (Americans) are too short sighted, we look for what is best for me today, tomorrow, next year. Our competition asks what is best for my company/nation in the next ten years, fifty, one hundred years.

But as I've said in other posts, I'm just a dumb plumber with no degree, so what do I know.................................

[OHScot]

I read somewhere Ford and GM have more retired workers than people still employeed. Simple math tells me it will not be good...

[BONEY]

I read somewhere Ford and GM have more retired workers than people still employeed. Simple math tells me it will not be good...


It would help if they had both fully funded their retirement system rather than "borrowing" against it (by not putting the needed money aside). We will run into the same problem with Social Security if the Gov't doesn't get it's act together.

[OHScot]

Would have been nice. I think most 401K's will probably go down the same way when push comes to shove. Underfunded that is.

[lightning]

Aside from pro or anti union sentiments or whether or not GM deserves a loan, and since the premise of this thread was that there will be loans, do you really think our economy and military can sustain the failing of the American auto, and auto-related, industry?

:usa

[GrafikFeat]

Aside from pro or anti union sentiments or whether or not GM deserves a loan, and since the premise of this thread was that there will be loans, do you really think our economy and military can sustain the failing of the American auto, and auto-related, industry?

:usa

No. We can't. But we can't be throwing a loan to the same boneheads running the company either. Can you say "Evo-1"? I knew ya could...

And since you mention the military I don't think they'd be in any immediate trouble as there are enough parts already in the supply chain. They also don't drive those Faux Hummers you see on our streets.
What those poor guys need are body armor and socks. Seems Hally's Burden can't deliver basic necessity.

[The_Veg]

I'm just a dumb plumber with no degree, so what do I know.................................

John, I'm a smart guy with a degree, but because the white-collar professional world just hasn't worked out for me, I've been thinking of apprenticing to be a plumber. Is this a good idea? Is 40 too old to apprentice? Will I be able to make my bike's payments on an apprentice's wages?

I'm not being as funny as it sounds.

[RJM2096]

The president of Ford was on TV (CNN) making a case for the bailout. When the interviewer asked him why they were not producing much in the line of hybrids he said that they have been producing them for a long while...the small SUV Escape. Now I know for a fact the local ford dealer told me they have been in production, but were in such limited qualitities that they were basically unavailable. Instead the dealer were being forced to receive big SUVs and pickups. Also when did we ever see much advertising for the hybrid Escapes?

[ian408]

It would help if they had both fully funded their retirement system rather than "borrowing" against it (by not putting the needed money aside). We will run into the same problem with Social Security if the Gov't doesn't get it's act together.

The underlying philosophy of "borrow from Peter to pay Paul" is one of the fundamental reasons we are where we are today. When leveraging, sooner or later you have to pay the piper.