JL Paralever Bushing upgrade....

[fabiox]

I just did an upgrade this week on my final drive. I also changed the synthetic oil to regular castrol Hypoc Gear oil 80W90.
How about you? did you up grade your final drive as well?

[boxerr]

I have JL bushes in my Paralever GSPD. Had to adjust a couple of times, but seem OK now. Done about 5,000ks so far.

I use mineral 80W90 as well in my diff, and gearbox.

[Rollifahrer]

Got my bushing from Tom Cutter, but same thing. Bearing was shot and wore into pivot pin. Lots of miles, no problems.

I use a moly gear lube in gear box and it shifts smoother and runs quieter. There was a noticable clicking into to third, but it's almost gone. Not sure moly is a cure, but it has at least helped slow the wear.

[fabiox]

Tom Cutter did the work on my bike. I love Rubber Chicken Race Garage.

[bikerfish1100]

Got my bushing from Tom Cutter, but same thing.

My understanding from Tom is that he is the sole distributor of the JL bushings, but is not the manufacturer of them.
yeah, i got them too- tired of replacing inappropriate bearings every 20-30k miles. I've got almost 10k on mine- so far, so good.

[PGlaves]

My understanding from Tom is that he is the sole distributor of teh JL bushings, but is not the manufacturer of them.
yeah, i got them too- tired of replacing inappropriate bearings every 20-30k miles. I've got almost 10k on mine- so far, so good.

Actually - Jess Lindley (JL Enterprizes) is the manufacturer. Tom Cutter's RCRG is one distributor. www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com

Ted Porter's Beemershop in California is another distributor. http://beemershop.com

[jyambrovich]

Hi all,
Ted Porter's Beemershop (www.beemershop.com) installed a set of these for me a couple of months ago. I had noticed some UGLY noise coming from (what I interpreted as) the tranny and I took a closer look. The outside pivot pin (the one you can see on the right side of the bike) had BACKED OUT about 6-7 mm (a little more than 1/4 inch) and there was a LOT of slop in the drive train.
Since I live about 2 miles from their shop (YAY ME!!) I went over and spoke to Josh about it. Adam (one of the mechanics) said that they torque that thing down to 150 NM WITH LOCTITE and that he'd never seen one (or heard of one) back itself out.
I took it in (fearing a diagnosis of "you need a new tranny" or something similarly expensive) and they found time to fit it into their loaded work schedule. Diagnosis came back that I needed a new pivot pin ($38) and the pivot pin bearings. I chose to upgrade to the JL Bushing ($120 instead of $60 for the bearings) at that time.
2000 miles later, no slop that I can detect and I'm happy.

THANKS BEEMERSHOP for the suggestion to replace the bearing with the bushing. I can live with the extra $60 cost knowing that I have peace of mind with that (unfortunately) weak area of our beloved bikes.

Your mileage (and experience) may vary, but that's OK.

[OfficerImpersonator]

I have about 5K trouble-free miles on mine since I replaced stock with the JL upgrade about four months ago.

Seems like a no-brainer if you have to replace the pivot bearings.

[fabiox]

It is a life time investment......yeah JL !:rofl

[shoeman]

Added these. I did this on the advice of Paul Glaves. I can't tell if there is a significant difference in the ride but the logic and engineering reasons are sound. I am hoping they perform well.

[jm1515]

I've done 1500 miles since I replaced my Paralever bearings with the JL bushings at just under 33k miles. I had some micro-slop at both 3-9 and 12-6 positions...now my rear wheel is solid as a rock. :thumb
Both OE bearings had some flat spots on the rollers, as well as 'burned-in' discoloration on the inner races.....
I'm a happy camper now......

[JimMoore]

I have a set of JLbearing in the garage. I have a few questions about teh replacement process.

1. What size hex do I need? It looks like a 12mm, but I'm not sure.

2. The instructions I received do not mention using Loctite on the inboard pivot pin, the one you tighten to 36-48 in-lb. Should I use it, or not? If not, how do I hold the pin in place while I tighten the locknut?

3. The instructions I received say to tighten the outboard pivot pin to 110 ft-lb and the inboard lock nut to 75 ft-lb. I seem to remember reading elsewhere that the spec was 118 ft-lb for both. What did you guys use?

4. The instructions I received say to put a drop of locktite 207 on the bore of the bushing. Did you guys do that? Wouldn't that just glue the inner race of the bushing to the pin?

5. What did you guys use to clean the threads?

Thanks,

[bikerfish1100]

1. 12 mm is correct. I could not find a hex socket locally, so I bought an angle hex wrench, and cut a short segment to insert into a socket for torqueing.
2. Loctite 2071 (green) on threads only of inboard pin.
3. some bikes use 77 ft lbs, others use 118 lb. ft. for the lock nut.
4. Exactly. That is apparently the point- with the bushing locked to the pin, all movement happens between the bushing and its race. Otherwise the bronze bushing will wear down the aluminum pin. DAMHIK.
5. Wire brush and heat.

[JimMoore]

Cool. Thanks. Time to start tearing things apart. Whoo hoo!

[bikerfish1100]

Don't scrimp on the heat to get the pins out and the locknut freed up!

[barryg]

Looks like I have another project to do to my 94 R1100RS.

[JimMoore]

Don't scrimp on the heat to get the pins out and the locknut freed up!
Speaking of that, I've never used a heat gun before. Any tips on which one to buy or how to use it?

[bikerfish1100]

i consulted Consumer Reports a few years ago (10+, so i'd look for a newer review), when i needed to do some stripping of house paint. Bought a Milwaukee variable output gun. Works nice. Took about 10-15 minutes of moving the nozzle around the area of the pin on high to get the Loc-tite to soften up sufficiently.
i guess the only tips would be don't just put the heat on one spot, and avoid rubber or plastic parts.

[JimMoore]

Thasnk again. I just read a bunch of good reviews on the Milwaukee heat gun, so I bought one from mytoolstore.com. Man, I love the internet.

[PGlaves]

Speaking of that, I've never used a heat gun before. Any tips on which one to buy or how to use it?

My heat gun is indspensible - but - for paralever pivots a decent propane torch with pencil flame aimed INSIDE the hex socket of the fixed pin and movable pin works best. Be careful not to mar the paint on the swingarm. The Loctite stuff the factory uses melts somewhere just over 250 degrees so hot is required. Trying to muscle it off without melting it can damage the threads

[jm1515]

I have a set of JLbearing in the garage. I have a few questions about teh replacement process.

1. What size hex do I need? It looks like a 12mm, but I'm not sure.

2. The instructions I received do not mention using Loctite on the inboard pivot pin, the one you tighten to 36-48 in-lb. Should I use it, or not? If not, how do I hold the pin in place while I tighten the locknut?

3. The instructions I received say to tighten the outboard pivot pin to 110 ft-lb and the inboard lock nut to 75 ft-lb. I seem to remember reading elsewhere that the spec was 118 ft-lb for both. What did you guys use?

4. The instructions I received say to put a drop of locktite 207 on the bore of the bushing. Did you guys do that? Wouldn't that just glue the inner race of the bushing to the pin?

5. What did you guys use to clean the threads?

Thanks,

1. 12mm is it...I had to fashion one from a giant hex key epoxied into an empty socket.
2. After install & for the first 800mi before re-torquing, I did not use any Locktite on the inboard side at all. They did not move....
Permatex Blue on both pin and locknut after the final torquing. The right side got Permatex Red.
Also, the 48in/lb pivot pin/bushing torque is less than the 7Newton/meter spec for OE bearing. I found that my FD flopped around too much at this low value. I know I cleaned all the threads very well, and it took 8.3 Nt/m to make the FD move smoothly with just a touch of 'feel' around the bushings, and for all the slop at the wheel the be gone....YMMV.....
Once I tightened the locknut with a wrench while holding the pivot pin, I was able to torque the locknut without the pivot moving.
3. I think the spec for both is 160 Nt/m. I maxed out my torque wrench @105.xxNt/M, the best I could do. They have not moved in 1500mi....
4. Correct.... when you glue the bushing to the pin the FD pivots around the bushing. Liberal use of grease between the bushing and the race...

[PGlaves]

Green Loctite # 270

[bikerfish1100]

+1 on the 270 Loctite. Tom Cutter was VERY clear on only using that brand and version, and nothing else.
i bought a bigger torque wrench, primarily for this job. Buying new tools is FUN!

[JimMoore]

Hey, how about the bushings in the front of the swingarm? Do y'all normally replace them at the same time? Are the directions the same?

[bikerfish1100]

Swingarm bushing repair is not related to pivot bushing repair, totally isolated systems.
Also, they appear to be a relatively non-wearing item. Have yet to hear of them wearing out- whereas the pivot bearings seem to go 20-30K miles, and not much beyond (unless you're really religious about keeping them properly torqued).

[awagnon]

Once I tightened the locknut with a wrench while holding the pivot pin, I was able to torque the locknut without the pivot moving.

Another trick is to put the Locktite on the pivot pin, torque it, then let the Locktite harden before putting on the locknut. That way, the pivot pin isn't so hard to hold at the right torque.

[JanMiller]

Green Loctite # 270

Whatever you do, do NOT order this stuff from R.S. Huges, www.rshughes.com!!!


They do not tell you the shipping, and then charge OUTRAGEOUS rates, I got burned, don't you be!

Shipped Unit Name Price Total
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 BOTTLE LOCTITE Retaining Compound 620 High $16.13 $16.13
Temperature, 10 ml Bottle
1 BOTTLE LOCTITE Threadlocker 270 High Strength, $14.94 $14.94
10 ml Bottle
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $31.07
Tax: $0.00
Shipping & Handling: $18.48
Grand Total: $49.55

[Rollifahrer]

16K on mine. Very small amount of play. If it doesn't get worse, I'll wait till rear wheel is off for something else, then re-torque.

[nevada72]

What are the symptoms of a bad bushing? My 96 R1100R has 40k miles but I doubt the PO replaced the bushing. Where excactly is the bushing and how can I check if it needs to be replaced?

TiA!

[GSAddict]

Swingarm bushing repair is not related to pivot bushing repair, totally isolated systems.
Also, they appear to be a relatively non-wearing item. Have yet to hear of them wearing out- whereas the pivot bearings seem to go 20-30K miles, and not much beyond (unless you're really religious about keeping them properly torqued).

Checked mine at 150,000 km everything was ok.

[bdiver]

Can the replacement of the pivot bearing with the JL bushing be accomplished without removing the final drive unit? Or is it a necessity?

[PGlaves]

Can the replacement of the pivot bearing with the JL bushing be accomplished without removing the final drive unit? Or is it a necessity?

The outer races for the bushings are driven into the recesses of the final drive. Removal of the final drive is required.

[RonWiebe]

I have a concern with using the JL Paralever Bushings on my 1150GS, or any 1150 for that matter.

Prior to installing the bushings I looked at what would be required to "REMOVE" the Rear Drive in the future - for any Rear Drive maintentance or to clean & relube driveshaft splines, etc.
It appears to me that once the JL Paralever Bushing are installed onto a 1150 Rear Drive and the bushings are installed and Loctited on with Red loctite onto the two pivot pins it will be almost impossible to remove the pivot pins to allow the removal of the Rear Drive from the Swing Arm.
The threaded holes on both sides of the swing arm are too small to allow the pivot pin and the bushing "together" to be removed from the swing arm. To get heat into where the bushing and pivot pin would be with the Rear Drive still in the way would be almost impossible and using the threads in the swing arm to push the bushing off the pivot pin sounds like a recipe for serious damage to the threads of the swing arm.
I know on a 1100 swing arm one of the pivot pins and threaded hole is larger than the other allowing the removal of one of the pivot pins complete with the bushing. This is not the case with the 1150 swing arm.

Paul & others out there - am I missing something obvious for future removal of these pivot pins with the JL Paralevel Bushings or are my concerns justified ?

Thanks, Ron

[bikerfish1100]

Identical procedure and construction for ALL paralever bikes; airhead, oilhead, whateverhead (at least accoridng to Mr. Clymer).
Pivots are free to come out after the bushing installation, with appropriate application of heat. Timken races would stay in place in the shaft housing, but pins and bushing are unimpeded in their removal.
in fact, about 1,000 miles after doing my bushing kit, i had to pull the rear drive to replace the pivot seal. no problem whatsoever.

[PGlaves]

Green Loctite - 270. Still requires heat but removal is really no different in practice than with the OEM needle bearings. Once you heat the stub axles, the Loctite softens on both the threads and the bushings and come right out.

[BubbaZanetti]

what would be the potential outcome of not using LOCTITE 270, you know just in case one might have done that;)

[jdmetzger]

what would be the potential outcome of not using LOCTITE 270, you know just in case one might have done that;)

Have problems finding it? :)

I had to order mine special from a place called Fastenal. I feel better knowing I used the "right stuff", but I'm picky like that.

[bikerfish1100]

Tom Cutter is exceedingly clear on the need for the bushings to remain fixed inside the race, so that the pin rotates on the bushing, rather than the bushing rotating on the race. He's also real clear on the need for the Loctite 270 to ensure that happens- that variety, that brand, period.
So I used Loctite 270, like he said.

[BubbaZanetti]

Tom Cutter is exceedingly clear on the need for the bushings to remain fixed inside the race, so that the pin rotates on the bushing, rather than the bushing rotating on the race. He's also real clear on the need for the Loctite 270 to ensure that happens- that variety, that brand, period.
So I used Loctite 270, like he said.

problem is, when i did my install 2 years ago, i didn't see that advisory and installed with another type of loctite. the stiffness with which the press fit went together combined with the loctite made me think that the bushing would be much more likely to pivot on the lubed outer race rather than the pin, but i guess it's possible. do you guys think there's a risk of shearing the pin? i only ask because my access to a workspace with electricity may be somewhat limited for a while.

[bikerfish1100]

I would find a way to correct it Derek. I don;'t think likely to shear, but it could wear in a way it shouldn't. If it were to come to that, you can purchase just the bushings without having to purchase the races, saves a few buck.

[jdmetzger]

problem is, when i did my install 2 years ago, i didn't see that advisory and installed with another type of loctite. the stiffness with which the press fit went together combined with the loctite made me think that the bushing would be much more likely to pivot on the lubed outer race rather than the pin, but i guess it's possible. do you guys think there's a risk of shearing the pin? i only ask because my access to a workspace with electricity may be somewhat limited for a while.

I would think that if there was a problem, the result would be excessive wear on the pivot bushing. As that happens, you would be able to move it around and feel "slop" in the connection, instead of an up/down and "side/side" movement in that area. You would probably need to pull the rear wheel, disconnect the shock and control arm, and then move it around by hand to see if there is any looseness/slop. If not, I'd say you are fine.

[BubbaZanetti]

yah, after reading the 270 suggestion i did a little :scratch because the description of it was "for fasteners which will not see service/be removed" and thought, well, if i ever need to take up free play that's not what i want, so i think i went with the red or whatever i had kicking around. now i'm all nervous..........working on the bike in this city is SUCH a pain, guess i need to find an in/lb torque wrench again as well.


You would probably need to pull the rear wheel, disconnect the shock and control arm, and then move it around by hand to see if there is any looseness/slop. If not, I'd say you are fine.

i have MINOR side to side free play now after about 12K and i just attributed it to natural wear on the bronze, but i guess it could be a pin issue. maybe i can find a stray outlet in my garage or sneak one of those light bulb plugs in when no one's looking :)

[jdmetzger]

i have MINOR side to side free play now after about 12K and i just attributed it to natural wear on the bronze, but i guess it could be a pin issue. maybe i can find a stray outlet in my garage or sneak one of those light bulb plugs in when no one's looking :)

I did the ones on my GSPD last August in preparation for the Hunter Mountain event. Due to the health issues I had the week after that (and then winter), I haven't gotten a ton of mileage, although I would think the off-road beating would increase wear. Once I get the engine back together on the PD I'll probably inspect that for wear, and then one time before I take my long summer trip - probably NFLD, but still not verified. After that I'll have a better feel for if they are wearing or not. 12k seems too fast, though.

[bikerfish1100]

Tom Cutter claims 150,000 miles (and counting) on his own set. Tom was also clear that the 1K retorque is critical to getting a long life span from the bushings.

[rbertalotto]

Tom Cutter is exceedingly clear on the need for the bushings to remain fixed inside the race, so that the pin rotates on the bushing, rather than the bushing rotating on the race.


I believe this is incorrect............but if I'm mistaken, please correct me.

But the "pin" needs to be loctited to the bronze bushing so that the bronze bushing DOES NOT rotate on the pin, The only rotation should be the bronze bushing within the steel race...............correct?

http://www.rvbprecision.com/motorcycles/bmw-pivot-bearing-replacement.html

[beemermyke]

RoyB,
When I talked to Tom Cutter last Friday (July 3rd) about the issues I was having, he did stress that the pin gets loctited in place (bushing rotates on the race, pin secured to bushing). I put Honda Moly 60 between the bushing and race too.

[rbertalotto]

Yup, that's what I thought............Actually, I was positive , but you never know, you can learn something new everyday!............:dance

[Rollifahrer]

Tom Cutter is exceedingly clear on the need for the bushings to remain fixed inside the race, so that the pin rotates on the bushing, rather than the bushing rotating on the race. He's also real clear on the need for the Loctite 270 to ensure that happens- that variety, that brand, period.
So I used Loctite 270, like he said.



This defeats the purpose of the bushing/race set up.

The bushing replaces a bearing. Really bad things happen when the bearing bonds to the race and the pin rotates instead of the bearing in the race. My bike "squatted" and didn't rebound. Shock stayed compressed for the better part of a 2 week trip. Something didn't feel right and I couldn't rememeber if the angle between FD and swing arm was always "like that". I thought maybe I was just overloaded.

When I took it apart, the needle bearingss wore grooves into the race, plus grease was hard as a rock. (I bought the bike w 68K and tightened the pivot pin twice on the recommendation of a dealer's tech who was trying to help me save $ (wierd, huh?!).

[bikerfish1100]

I believe this is incorrect............but if I'm mistaken, please correct me.

But the "pin" needs to be loctited to the bronze bushing so that the bronze bushing DOES NOT rotate on the pin, The only rotation should be the bronze bushing within the steel race...............correct?

http://www.rvbprecision.com/motorcycles/bmw-pivot-bearing-replacement.html\

i think you're right on that one Roy. race to bushing interface is the movement point. musta been a beer-y post or something.

[JerryAttrick]

I just finished installing the bushing upgrade on our R1150R, using all the correct materials and torques as specified in the RCRG instruction sheet. I want to retorque it later to finish the installation, but there is one thing I don't understand.
How do I retorque with 270 on the adjustment pin threads, and between the pin and the left-side bushing? Do I remove and clean the adjusting pin?
Thanks,

[jm1515]

I just finished installing the bushing upgrade on our R1150R, using all the correct materials and torques as specified in the RCRG instruction sheet. I want to retorque it later to finish the installation, but there is one thing I don't understand.
How do I retorque with 270 on the adjustment pin threads, and between the pin and the left-side bushing? Do I remove and clean the adjusting pin?
Thanks,
That's a good Q....................:scratch
I have no idea why it's said to apply the Loctite 270 on the adjusting pin threads before the 500mi or whatever re-torque. I did not, and only only used the Blue medium on the locknut, nothing on the pin. I marked everything to visually check for movement, and in the 800miles I did before my re-torque nothing moved. :thumb
With threads so fine on the pin, and a ton of torque on the locknut, I figured nothing would move...YMMV however.
I used Blue med again on both threads during the re-torque. Nothing moved in ~8000miles & my wheel stayed solid as a rock. The Blue made things much easier when I had to remove things again to have my FD inspected.
That's another story tho.....:hungover

[PETDOC]

I'm in the same spot as you regarding having just installed JL bushings. The answer to your question is yes, you do have to clean off the loctite to re-torque the pivot pin correctly. Whether it is necessary is another question that was posed by BEEMERMYKE in post #38 of this thread http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36799&page=3

[rbertalotto]

I did not secure my pin with loctite. I put an index mark on the pin and on the bike to see if it moves. I can't believe it will with the huge locknut holding it. But we'll see.

If you did use loctite and you want to torque it to specs, ytou will need to remove the loctite with heat and acetone.

[PETDOC]

Roy,
Something I just noticed in re-reading your excellent write up of the JL paralever bushing installation (http://www.rvbprecision.com/motorcycles/bmw-pivot-bearing-replacement.html) is the recommendation to torque the reaction link bolt with the weight of the rider on the bike. I quote:

The book calls for the rear bolt on the Paralever to be torqued to 32 Ft pounds. But I've been informed that this rubber mounted bushing in the final drive is captive and does not rotate, therefore you should have someone that weighs about 185 pounds sit on the bike, with the rear wheel on the ground, while this bolt is torqued down. This sets the rubber bushing in the middle of its movement and takes strain off the FD.

I did not do this, but have only ridden 50 miles since completing the project. My question --Is this a fact or just a rumor that's been passed on?

Dave

[rbertalotto]

On my bike it is fact. The rubber bushing is captive. It does not rotate. Therefore if you tightened the torque arm down at the top of the suspension travel (without weight on the bike), there would be undo stress on this bushing it at the bottom of the suspension travel. With a 185 pound weight on the bike, you are biasing the bushing in the middle of its range, which seems like the proper way to do it.

In the BMW service manual , (not the Clymer manual) it outlines this procedure.

I hope this helps...........