need advice

[rayma60927]

i came across a r80 that has been converted to a r100s. the motor, clutch , final drive has all been rebuilt . the mechanic that is selling it said all the drive parts have been bead blasted. it has that red paint that fades ito black, it looks about as close to perfect as you get. my question is will this upsize affect the reliability and does the changes to make it look like a r100 with the solo seat affect the value. he is wanting to get 5k for it since he has so much invested in it. thanks

[nealart]

Sounds like a neat looking bike, but "collectors" will stay away from anything that has been modified - especially at top dollars.

So, you have to decide what it is worth to you and maybe also what you can get for it if you decide to part with it later.

Nothing wrong with making these modifications from a purely mechanical point of view.

Without actually seeing it, it sounds a little more like a $4000 bike to me, but who knows.

[88bmwJeff]

my question is will this upsize affect the reliability and does the changes to make it look like a r100 with the solo seat affect the value.

The upgrade from an 800 to a 1000 should have no affect on reliability. BMW used the same blocks, transmissions, final drives, etc. for their R80s and R100s. The only difference being the cylinders, pistons, and heads. So a good swap of cylinders, pistons, and heads should provide the same reliability as a stock R100. I don't know if the rods needed to be changed or not, but if changed properly the answer really doesn't matter. Perhaps some with more knowledge will chime in on this.

[brickrider]

Sounds like a neat looking bike, but "collectors" will stay away from anything that has been modified - especially at top dollars.

So, you have to decide what it is worth to you and maybe also what you can get for it if you decide to part with it later.

Nothing wrong with making these modifications from a purely mechanical point of view.

Without actually seeing it, it sounds a little more like a $4000 bike to me, but who knows.

This is excellent advice.

No doubt the bike looks cool/different. Are you going to ride it or show it? If you're going to ride it, you can get the same kind of ride for much less with a stock bike. If you're going to show it, reread the above quote from Nealart.

I have lost my shirt every single time I have purchased something out of line with factory stock or factory options. This mechanic most likely has that much into the bike. Do you really wanna make his mistake be your mistake? Even at $4,000, I suggest that you be prepared to keep it a long time to realize your money's worth.

Ride Safely,
BrickRider

[Bigrider]

I have an R80RT modified with larger jugs. Mortons in Spotsylvania, Va, did the work way back in 1988. I still have it and it's still running just fine. Only thing I would change is the rear drive. The drive is still R80 specs and revs kinda high for an R100. Have you taken it for a ride? Any leaks, particlularly around the cyclinders, or rubber rod gaskets below the cylinders? I'd say if you trust the mechanic, you shouldn't have a problem. Changing cylinders is no big deal on an airhead.

Dave H
San Antonio, Tx

[nealart]

Only thing I would change is the rear drive.

Good Point!

If he didn't change the rear drive - that is one of the main reasons folks like the 100's!

[shire2000]

There should be no reliability issue, providing the mechanic really knew what he was doing when he put it together. As has been said, the only realy differences are the jugs, pistons, heads and carbs. Not a big deal.

That being said, for resale purposes, most purists (and collectors) will want to see that the engine numbers match the frame. if they don't the value of the bike is reduced considerably. The value of "stock" original bikes is always more than anything that has been modified and will continue to rise as less original bikes come available. I have seen some very large increases in these values in the past couple of years. I buy and sell bikes as a way to help pay for my addiction to older bikes. I buy them in the USA, bring them home to Canada, fix them up as required and sell them here for nice profits.

You can get some very nice examples of R80 and R100 bikes that are pretty much stock and in good to excellent running condition for well under $5000. You may have to travel a bit to get one, but if you take good care of a stock bike, I would bet that if you ride it for the next 10 years, it will be worth more then that what you pay for it now.

As for the modified bike, well, it would just be considered another Frankinbike, cobbled together from so many parts. It may run great and be a very reliable bike, but the value is not likely to increase. In my honest but jaded opinion, I think that the price being asked is much more than it is really worth.

:ca

[Rod Sheridan]

I personally would only buy a pristine original condition airhead with factory original German air in the tires.

Of course, if you saw what I ride, you'd realise that this is do as I say, rather than do as I do advice.

If you'd be happy to ride and own the bike, buy it. There shouldn't be any technical problems, they were the original "plug and play" device.

Regards, Rod.

[108625]

Really, how "collectable" is an R80 in the first place? (Here it comes)
I don't think rebuilding everything, increasing displacement, and giving it the very desireable S fairing, solo seat and smoke red paint job are going to reduce the bike's value below that of any other R80... Neither should it increase it to that of an authentic R100S. Somewhere between the book values of each model in the same condition is a fair price for that bike. Keep in mind the solo seat and the S fairing are each worth some $ by themselves. (The sum of its parts may be worth more than the bike).
The question to ask is, "what would I do with it?"
Are you buying it to ride, or as an investment?

Bob

[shire2000]

Well let's see. I may have interpreted the original question incorrectly, but it seems to me that rayma60927 asked 2 basic questions about this bike.
1. Reliability
2. Value

I think we can all agree that is put together correctly this bike could be very reliable and enjoyable to ride. Essentially it is an R100.

As for Value, that is purely subjective. For any Airhead, the sum of all the parts is worth a whole lot more than a running roadworthy bike is, unless the bike has been up on a pedestal all it's life. So if you want to part it out, you will most likely get more for it than the asking price.

On the other hand, if you know anything about collectors, bikes as well as cars have many different values. A pristine all original bike would be worth the most. Second would be a good example that is in good to excellent condition and all original. Minor points may be deducted due to aftermarket seats, exhaust, same size but not original motor, etc. The value drops significantly when you significantly alter major parts of the drive train, wheels of different model, etc. If the parts on the bike were available as either dealer or aftermarket options of the era then the value stays up. If not, then value goes down.

Of course, all of that gets thrown out the window if you really want that particular bike. If it has everything on it the way you would have built it, great. Just realize that the actual value is less than you may think. A simple example. Take a bone stock 1978 R80 into a reputable BMW dealer and get a quote as to value. Next take a modified R80 with an R100 engine and other none original parts on it and get it's value. I think you will find that if the 2 bikes are in similar mechanical and cosmentic condition, the bone stock R80 will be worth a whole lot more. Or go and watch the Barrett-Jackson auto auction for a while. Sure those modified muscle cars of the 1960's fetch a pretty good dollar, but then watch to see what the bone stock cars go for. It is pretty amazing to see a modified Camaro go for around $30K to $40K and then see a bone stock Camaro with only factory options go for more than double. Same thing happens for bikes.

Also, for general riding, a lot of people prefer the R80 because it is the smoothest of all the boxer motors ever built. Especially the models built between 1981 and 1985. The R100 has a little more torque and revs lower at any given speed. Both are excellent reliable bikes to ride. With appropriate maintenance, both will get you wherever you want to go and back.

I buy and sell a lot of bikes every year, as a small business. Myself, I stay away from any bike that has had an engine transplant. They may be excellent bikes, but I look at what I can turn around and sell it for. For my personal riding, only a stock airhead or something that I have modified myself and know exactly what I have. If I ever have to get rid of the modified bike, I would not expect to get anywhere near what a stock bike would get, no matter how much I have invested in it.

But this is only my opinion and may not be worth much to others.

:ca

[jforgo]

With regards to the value, I think in the current market the price is way too high. Possibly the owner really doesn't want to sell it, which is why the price is where it is. The price is really too high, even for an original, unless perhaps if it had lived in a time capsule.
The other thing affecting the dollar value is the fact it is a frankenbike. I am with the nearly universal consensus that the frankenbikes are worth way less $ on the open market than originals. And the interesting thing here is these airheads are such parts bin bikes - .many parts swaps are possible.
As to reliability, a gone thru frankenbike will be superior to an all original which maintenance has been spotty, skimped on because of service costs etc..
As current events demonstrate price and value are often widely separated concepts. If your purpose is to ride, not have a trailer queen collectible or something, an appropriately priced and gone-thru frankenbike is a superior value to a neglected original. And a gorgeous time capsule bike you would probably not want to ride a lot, and compromise the value.
It sounds like rayma60927 likes the bike - wants the riding experience it will provide. But I think such a machine can be had for no more than $3K.

[535is]

There should be no reliability issue, providing the mechanic really knew what he was doing when he put it together. As has been said, the only realy differences are the jugs, pistons, heads and carbs. Not a big deal.

That being said, for resale purposes, most purists (and collectors) will want to see that the engine numbers match the frame. if they don't the value of the bike is reduced considerably.
Ummm, isn't that going to match if the engine has only been 'rejugged'? ISTR the SN is on the block, not on the cylinders. So this one may still match ...

[shire2000]

If it has only been rejugged, then I would run away from it. Yes, it can be done, and it will work, but due to all the other things that should be changed to match the rejugging, it would have been cheaper to just drop in a complete R100 engine, block and all.

I feel that the seller has placed his price at what i may have cost him to do all that he has done to it. As we all know, the some of all the parts far exceeds the real world value once assembled.

Real world value of this bike is no more than $3000. And at that, it would have to be almost perfect cosmetically as well as mechanically.

:ca