Weird feeling in the rear end of my K1200LT.

[Beemerider03]

I recently purchased a 2003 K1200LT with 32,000 miles on it. I noticed a weird feeling in the rear end. The best way to describe it is it feels like the grommet/insert in the top mount of the rear shock is worn out or missing and when riding over unsmooth roads I can feel play in the suspension. I had the mechanic and service manager both ride my bike and inspected everything they could think of and they found nothing wrong. Has anyone ever experienced this? I had my mechanic adjust the swingarm bearings and it helped some, however, the feeling is still there. Any input would be very much appreciated. I have always rode Japanese bikes and never gave BMW much thought until we found this one and my wife was pretty insistant that we get it. I don't see myself ever going back to Jap bikes, this K1200LT is like nothing I have ever experienced before. It is INCREDIBLE. However, this situation with my rear suspension is bothering me and I don't know what to do. Also, I was giving the ole girl a bath shortly after I got her home and the stereo came on with no key in the ignition and it was turned off. The only way I could turn it off was to disconnect the negative battery terminal. This lasted for 3 days, on the 4th day it returned to normal operating condition. I was alittle freaked out about it and wonder if anyone has ever run across this situation? Any and all input will be greatly appreciated.

[rocketman]

I have an 03 as well and noticed that my radio will play with the key off, I have to push the off button on the radio unit, kind of a pain if you forget to turn it off! Outside of that having put 35K on mine I love it, as heavy as it is at parking lot speeds.

If the shop has looked it over and there is no leaking around the rear I'm at a loss to say what's up with it. While there is an issue with final drives on some BMW's its not a show stopper (in my view). If there is another dealer in your area, I would probably have them look it over, drive it and then based on what they say, just ride it some more. perhaps you are just not used to the way it handles compared to other bikes you've ridden? Even for me with 40 plus years of owning BMW's (airheads) I was not prepared for how different the LT feels.

Welcome to the LT club, have you dropped it yet? Don't worry, you will! (its part of the initiation of ownership as you will find out).

the site www.bmwlt.com has a lot of good info on it as well.

RM

[Beemer01]

When my rear shock went out, I experienced pretty much what you are describing.

[cathdeac]

They may have ridden the bike... but I strongly.. yes, STRONGLY suggest you pull the rear drive lube and check for chunks on the magnetic plug or loose metal in the oil.

Have it up in the air on the center stand, try to move the rear wheel left to right.. it should NOT move. Look for slack between the rear drive and rear wheel rim.

You could also have slack at the rear drive pivot... that's right behind the tranny.

There may be some looseness in the link under the rear drive..

Give all the parts a good shake because you can't push as hard as the forces applied when the bike is being ridden.

Could also be the shock as mentioned.... but need to check it all out.. not just ride it.

[bmwriderm51]

If you mostly feel this in the foot pegs it may be normal and you won't even notice it after you ride the LT for awhile. They seem to transfer some harshness from the
suspension to the peg area. I noticed this on my 00LT when I first got it.

[brickrider]

When the big bearing went out in the final drive of my '00 K1200LT, the bike wandered all over the road like it had a mind of its own, apart from my steering input. BMW went to a 19-ball bearing from a 17-ball bearing. Paul Glaves wrote a terrific article about this in one of the recent issues of the BMWMOA ON.

If the bearing has not yet been replaced on your bike, I would suggest that you start there. This is a case of when the bearing fails, not if. So if you wait until it fails, undoubtedly it will fail when you least need that kind of grief.

I realize that the symptoms I gave do not match the symptoms in your description. The problem may well be the shock....or it may be both things going bad. I strongly agree with Cathdeac to keep searching for cause, and not just ride it. I suggested the bearing replacement because there is a 100% chance it will fail in the future. If you replace it now, it will help troubleshoot your current problem, even if not related to the current problem, by eliminating one known weak point.

I say this because you already have the dealership scratching their heads. Since they don't know, what will happen from their standpoint is you just ride it until something breaks, then they can fix it. However, due to the nature of the symptoms, this is VERY dangerous for you, IMHO.

Since they don't know what it is, you're going to have to throw some money at it in order to troubleshoot. So, might as well replace something that we know is bad.

Another telling point is what Beemer01 said. He recognizes the symptoms, even if your dealership mechanics don't.

It's easy for me to say this to help you spend your money, but.....If I was in your shoes, I would have both the shock and the final drive bearing replaced. Since they are already in there, the labor cost to replace both items at once is less than having to replace each item separately. If you are going to throw money at your bike, best is to throw as much at parts as possible, and as little at labor as possible.

Please reread what Cathdeac wrote in his post.

And yes, the K1200LT is simply the finest 2-wheeled ride I've ever had.

Ride Safely,
BrickRider

[roy]

Beemer rider,
do you know of any other LT owners in your area? If so they may be able to help with your problem by riding your bike aand knowing how theirs feels.

On my LT I do get some strange clunking sounds and some vibration in the foot pegs when going over larger bumps. I believe it has something to do with how the suspension transfers energy to the frame. I have put 11K of 27K on my bike and I still find this noise/vibration different than any other bike I have ridden.

NOTE: Test road a K1200RS that had the same issue and possibly even more pronouced.

Final drive bearings are NOT 100% failure rate. Actual number is unknown but most experts agree somewhere around 4% is close.

I agree that you or a mechanic you know and trust need to check the whole rear assembly for play. Known problems are the final drive bearing and also the paralever pivot bearings. You stated the mechanic tighted these bearings and it appeared to help. They may need replacement.

On my 02 the radio will play with the key off. Key Must be turned to the lock position before radio stops playing.

Roy

[brickrider]

Final drive bearings are NOT 100% failure rate. Actual number is unknown but most experts agree somewhere around 4% is close.
Roy

Sorry I did not reply sooner but have been extremely busy.

I spoke to my dealer and the numbers are significantly different than 4%. According to my most capable Service Manager, that number, if accurate (a verifiable source is not cited) most likely represents the number of failures covered by warranty.

There is a huge number difference between those final drive bearings replaced under warranty and those K1200 owners who have to fork out cold hard cash for replacement. The Service Manager stated to me today that his numbers are running (off the top of his head without checking) at least above 25% for the bikes that his dealership have sold. "At least."

I had the change backwards. The factory went from a 19-ball to a 17-ball bearing. The larger balls are apparently more capable of handling the load. According to the Service Manager, the new LT completely does away with the entire problem by going to a different design. He has had a number of 2005 LTs in for bearing replacement already.

Also, he has had a number of the replaced bearings back in the shop for additional replacements. So the larger bearing is nothing but a stop-gap measure.

Enough experience has been gained with this issue that he was able to make some significant observations.

1) The rate of bearing failure is related to the load stress on the final drive. He has had one customer have four (count-'em, FOUR) bearing replacements so far. The customer and his wife are pretty hefty, and they pull a trailer. So, Beemerider03, if the PO of your bike pulled a trailer, this is a good place to start looking for the troublespot. It stands to reason that pulling a trailer may have also caused significant wear on the shock absorber, by the way. So I still believe Beemer01 is correct and accurate in his reply that the shock has probably gone bad, based upon his own observation.

2) When the bearing goes bad, it usually spins in the cover. The dealership has had considerable success in preventing recurrence by using a new final drive cover instead of merely replacing the bearing in the old cover. When I asked if they had tried red loctite in addition to the new cover, he said, 'funny you should ask, we are going to try that on the next one'. Note he said 'next one', as in 'when', not 'if'.

Since all riders are a bit different in style of riding, some of the original bearings are going to last a long time.

I stand by my assertion that eventually, most of the original final drive bearings will need replacement. While not every single one will go out as I originally stated with the 100% figure, if you get stranded 100 miles East of BFE due to final drive bearing failure, and you have to pay for the replacement as well as endure a ruined vacation and all of the ensuing grief, then it will seem like 100% to you.

Ride Safely.

Sincerely,
BrickRider

[rocketman]

Sorry I did not reply sooner but have been extremely busy.

I spoke to my dealer and the numbers are significantly different than 4%. According to my most capable Service Manager, that number, if accurate (a verifiable source is not cited) most likely represents the number of failures covered by warranty.

There is a huge number difference between those final drive bearings replaced under warranty and those K1200 owners who have to fork out cold hard cash for replacement. The Service Manager stated to me today that his numbers are running (off the top of his head without checking) at least above 25% for the bikes that his dealership have sold. "At least."

I had the change backwards. The factory went from a 19-ball to a 17-ball bearing. The larger balls are apparently more capable of handling the load. According to the Service Manager, the new LT completely does away with the entire problem by going to a different design. He has had a number of 2005 LTs in for bearing replacement already.

Also, he has had a number of the replaced bearings back in the shop for additional replacements. So the larger bearing is nothing but a stop-gap measure.

Enough experience has been gained with this issue that he was able to make some significant observations.

1) The rate of bearing failure is related to the load stress on the final drive. He has had one customer have four (count-'em, FOUR) bearing replacements so far. The customer and his wife are pretty hefty, and they pull a trailer. So, Beemerider03, if the PO of your bike pulled a trailer, this is a good place to start looking for the troublespot. It stands to reason that pulling a trailer may have also caused significant wear on the shock absorber, by the way. So I still believe Beemer01 is correct and accurate in his reply that the shock has probably gone bad, based upon his own observation.

2) When the bearing goes bad, it usually spins in the cover. The dealership has had considerable success in preventing recurrence by using a new final drive cover instead of merely replacing the bearing in the old cover. When I asked if they had tried red loctite in addition to the new cover, he said, 'funny you should ask, we are going to try that on the next one'. Note he said 'next one', as in 'when', not 'if'.

Since all riders are a bit different in style of riding, some of the original bearings are going to last a long time.

I stand by my assertion that eventually, most of the original final drive bearings will need replacement. While not every single one will go out as I originally stated with the 100% figure, if you get stranded 100 miles East of BFE due to final drive bearing failure, and you have to pay for the replacement as well as endure a ruined vacation and all of the ensuing grief, then it will seem like 100% to you.

Ride Safely.

Sincerely,
BrickRider

That seems kind of like saying "if you wait long enough or put enough miles on the bike, you will need new rings" so would you consider any part that wears out from use, a Failure? I don't think that is really what folks are talking about with the FD issues, its Pre-mature failure, a whole different ball game. And not every failure has left the rider standed far from home during a vacation.

I too talked to my dealer about the FD issue and he had quite a different take on it, and they are one of the top sellers in the US and often are contacted by BMW for such information because of the amount of bikes that pass thru their shop., which goes to show there is no real consensus on this other than there is a problem. Not saying loading and road conditions are not contributing factors, but those are not the only ones by far.

RM

[brickrider]

That seems kind of like saying "if you wait long enough or put enough miles on the bike, you will need new rings" so would you consider any part that wears out from use, a Failure? I don't think that is really what folks are talking about with the FD issues, its Pre-mature failure, a whole different ball game. And not every failure has left the rider standed far from home during a vacation.

RM

Of course this discussion, like politics, could be extended ad nauseum. Of course one cannot predict the future in terms of how long parts are going to last. But the problem is there enough to merit a significant article in the BMW ON by Paul Glaves. I doubt the article would have been written, or the time expended, regarding a statistically insignifcant number of failures like 4%. So the number is much bigger than that. If the real numbers were published, there would likely be a clamor for a recall. Can't have that - recalls cost the factory money. So the actual numbers we are never gonna know, and it doesn't matter whom you talk to, or whom I talk to.

As far as predictions? A lot of Airheads out there have 300,000+ miles on them without final drive bearing failure. How many of those failed out of all the Airheads built in the various iterations? Very few, or we would have heard about it by now. I would say that a significant portion on K1200s will have their original 19-ball final drive bearings fail by 100,000 miles. That to me is premature, given what the bikes cost, and given the reputation for longevity and reliability. Contrast that with the 1979 Suzuki GS850G that I once owned from new. The engine was completely shot by 53,000 miles, and I changed the oil + filter every 3,000. I guess we just expect more from our marque.

I take it that your final drive bearing hasn't failed yet. When it does :laugh, you are in for a joyride as the bike wanders all over the road and howls like a banshee. If you're lucky like I was, you will be less than 100 miles from home. In my case, the 41 degrees, 35mph crosswind, and snow-spitting clouds added to the excited anticipation of making it to the garage without having to call a tow truck.

Most significant of all is the advance knowledge that the upcoming version of the LT completely eliminates this design. If there was no problem, or if the problem was statistically insignificant, why then, would the factory devote engineering time to change it? Answer - they are changing the design because it is a big problem that must be dealt with.

The origination of this thread regards an LT with an undiagnosed, and IMHO, dangerous handling deficiency in the rear of the bike, for which the dealer and/or mechanics cannot solve at this moment, so they are letting the rider fend for himself while waiting for something to break so they can fix it.

Since the dealership cannot find anything wrong, some money must be thrown at this thing by the owner if the beginning of the solution is to be found. No amount of tire kicking, head scratching, or parts theories will begin to effect resolution without action, and that means money spent. I'm suggesting that the rider and his wife stay off of it until this one is better understood. I stand by that assertion.

I would like to know if this bike ever pulled a trailer. A solution begins with the evaluation of facts.

Ride Safely,
BrickRider

[rocketman]

Of course this discussion, like politics, could be extended ad nauseum. Of course one cannot predict the future in terms of how long parts are going to last. But the problem is there enough to merit a significant article in the BMW ON by Paul Glaves. I doubt the article would have been written, or the time expended, regarding a statistically insignifcant number of failures like 4%. So the number is much bigger than that. If the real numbers were published, there would likely be a clamor for a recall. Can't have that - recalls cost the factory money. So the actual numbers we are never gonna know, and it doesn't matter whom you talk to, or whom I talk to.



Ride Safely,
BrickRider


Here again I think you are over-reaching by stating the a 4% failure rate would cause enough of a concern for an article to be written on the subject and therefor the failure rate must be much higher. Many people would ( and have said) that even a 1% (1 in 100) failure rate is unacceptable as it would be in almost any automotive industry. I just feel you are reaching a conclusion based on conjecture and facts not in evidence. That's where you lose me and really my only "bone of contention" exists with your statements.
You also seem to be saying that you love your LT yet have no faith in its reliability this again just seems contradictory to me. :scratch

But, hey its not worth getting excited about, we just don't see eye to eye on this issue.
'nugh said.

RM