Tire Help

[Red100RT]

Hi all. Man, am I having a time mounting new tires (for first time) on my '81RT. I am having the same problem mounting the front and rear tires so will discuss only the front. I am mounting a Continental 100/90-19 63H on the front and have both beads over the rim and inner tube installed. What happens when I inflate the tire is the beads don't seat on rim evenly around the wheel. This distorts the tire badly. I have run the pressure up to 70 pounds without success. I just cannot get the beads to seat evenly around the wheel.:banghead I had the wheels powder coated including the inside area of the rims. I am wondering if the added thickness of the powder coat is what is causing the problem? Long and short is I am stuck. Oh, tried to remove the front tire and I absolutely cannot get the end of my mojo bar under the bead no way. It is almost as if the tires are too small for the rims. I did have one H of a time mounting these tires. Man, could I use some suggestions.:banghead Oh, when I inflate the tire the sidewall rolls over and touches the rim but the bead is still located in the deep part of the rim. Hope I am making sense?

[krehmkej]

Having just done this I can offer the following:

The well in the middle of the rim is your friend. You cannot do anything with the tire levers if the opposite side beads are not down into this depression.

I had the same difficulty seating one spot on the bead. Deflated and reinflated the tire several times, as well as bouncing it around. Also invested $6.00 in a gallon of rubber lube (enough for about 17 lifetimes) that helped. I just kept at it and it finally sloooly eased into place.

Now, as for powder coating. A friend from New Zealand, who ran a MC tire (tyre) business for 30 years told me that powder (or even paint) inside the rim can affect seating. This is his experience, which I cannot verify. Seems plausible, however. I have seen powders that were pretty thick, so it seems plausible.

BTW, mine seated at about 60 PSI.

[James.A]

Your'e going to think this is nuts, but follow me here for a minute. How far are you from a truck stop or automotive service center or tire shop? This is important because you are going to need access to a hose capable of inflating your tire to 100lb psi quickly.
1) remove the wheel and break down the tire beads and lube them
2) fill your tire to the highest psi you can achieve at home.
3) put the tire and wheel in the freezer for several hours. A chest type freezer that is not too full would be ideal.
4) take your tirecicle to the shop and hyper-inflate it, upwards of 100psi
5) wait for the tire/wheel to return to ambient temperature
I successfully used this proceedure on a spoked wheel last january only the wheel/tire was already below 32F. After hyper-inflating it, I set it on a low prop in my garage in front of a bullet type kerosene heater and went to the tavern for lunch. Upon return, the tire was seated perfectly.


Next time the tire is off the rim, try to remove the powder coat on the inside part where the tire goes and then polish that surface to a mirror finish with 0000 steel wool and billet polish.

[Red100RT]

Thanks a bunch for these good suggestions guys. I'm going to give that 100psi trick a try. I think I am also maybe going to try again to remove the tire and remove the powder coat from the inside of rim in the area where the bead must slip up over the ridge on the way to the rim. I bet that if I weren't using a tube I could seat the bead much easier. Thanks again:thumb

[amiles]

For what it's worth and with due respect to the person suggesting it, I feel that inflating the tire to 100 lbs PSI is dangerous and could easily/probably cause serious physical harm to you and anyone else in the area should it go awry.

I would use some fine abrasive, sandpaper for example to smooth the contact area where the bead is making contact with the rim enroute to proper sealing. clean the area and then use ruglide liberally , available at NAPA etc to thoroughly lubricate the bead & rim area prior to pumping to pressurize and seal the bead.

Ruglide is really slippery and will do no harm to the rubber.

[Red100RT]

For what it's worth and with due respect to the person suggesting it, I feel that inflating the tire to 100 lbs PSI is dangerous and could easily/probably cause serious physical harm to you and anyone else in the area should it go awry.

I would use some fine abrasive, sandpaper for example to smooth the contact area where the bead is making contact with the rim enroute to proper sealing. clean the area and then use ruglide liberally , available at NAPA etc to thoroughly lubricate the bead & rim area prior to pumping to pressurize and seal the bead.

Ruglide is really slippery and will do no harm to the rubber.

Thing is this is a snowflake wheel and not suited for use with a tire without an inner tube. I don't have to worry about actually sealing the bead just cause it to contact the rim evenly around the circumference of the wheel. I bet I would have an easier time of this were I not using a tube.

[James.A]

For what it's worth and with due respect to the person suggesting it, I feel that inflating the tire to 100 lbs PSI is dangerous and could easily/probably cause serious physical harm to you and anyone else in the area should it go awry. That is worth pondering.

Actually, I was only able to get the tire inflated to slightly over 90psi. All I'm saying is that it worked for me without loss of life or fingers. That's why for the warm up stage, I put in my garage and left. The greatest danger would be for a rupture and decompression to turn the wheel into a projectile. I think the change of temperature is what really accomplished the feat.

[James.A]

Thing is this is a snowflake wheel and not suited for use with a tire without an inner tube. I don't have to worry about actually sealing the bead just cause it to contact the rim evenly around the circumference of the wheel. I bet I would have an easier time of this were I not using a tube.

I'm pretty sure the tube is not the problem. The problem is that the tire says tubeless on it somewhere. The beads of tubeless tires are much stiffer than beads on the tube-type tires of antiquity. This is so that the tire makes an airtight seal against the rim. Those stiff reinforced tire beads are the real problem.

[Red100RT]

Well, I took the front tire off the wheel and went to work scraping and sanding to get the powder coat off the inside of the wheel. I remounted the tire and tried it again. I ran the pressure up to 100 psi all to no avail. Here's what I think is going on. The inner tube is made in China and there is a wide shoe or foot at the base of the valve stem. This wide, hard shoe forces the beads on both sides of the tire against the wheel rims before any pressure is applied to the tire. Because of this the beads opposite (180 degrees) the valve stem cannot seat against the wheel rim no way. Instead the side walls roll over against the rim. This causes the tire to bulge in the area of the valve stem. The original tubes (Michelin) have no wide spot or shoe at the base of the valve stem hence, the tire beads are in the same position around the circumference of the wheel and not forced against the rim in one location.
That's my theory. I must find some good quality original equipment like tubes.:banghead

[PGlaves]

You might try with an old tube but I really think the problem is the tire doesn't fit the wheel any more since the powder coat was added. I might be wrong, but .....

[Rich]

Well, at least we know an inner tube made in China will endure 100# of air pressure. I'm surprised. :thumb

My personal opinion, and I think that of most motorcycle tire manufacturers: 100# is way to high to run up to in order to get a seat. You are doing something wrong. Maybe the tube is part of the problem, maybe not, but whatever it is, don't run the pressure up that high. Personally again, I myself would be a little leery of using a tire that had been subjected to that kind of pressure.

One last comment/question: are you using the recommended size tire for the rim you are using? Not only diameter, but width?

Good luck.

[PGlaves]

One last comment/question: are you using the recommended size tire for the rim you are using? Not only diameter, but width?

Good luck.

Excellent point. If the tire is too wide the tire balloons out beyond the rim and the bead meets the rim at the wrong angle.

[bobh41]

For what it's worth; I took great pains to purchase 3.25x19 and 4.00x18 tires for my R90 and with some trepidation initiated my first motorcycle tire change myself. I had been tempted to settle for 90mm and 100 or 110 mm tires but got Metzler Lazertecs with the exact dimensions as original. Except for the first-time learning curve, the tires went on easily and fit perfectly. I think dabbling with metric-sized tires on the airheads is always going to be an exercise in frustration and failure.

Except for the blood I got on the spokes from fitting the Michelin tubes into the tubeless tires the procedure was simple and straightforward with no fitting problems.

[James.A]

You might try with an old tube but I really think the problem is the tire doesn't fit the wheel any more since the powder coat was added. I might be wrong, but .....
I agree with Paul here. I've known guys who had frames powder coated only to discover that bolts no longer fit in their holes. Then having to chase every threaded hole with a tap and ream every boss with a die grinder.

Regarding the hundred pound thing; I realize I'm the village idiot here. But, I am still running the tire that I hyper-inflated. It has well over a thousand miles on it and it was used when I put it on. Red100RT finds himself in a pickle. 2 wheels, neither of them will seat a tire. Freezing the wheel/tire and running up the pressure is the best shot he has short of un-powder coating the rims. How does a person remove powder coat in this situation? A vat of heinous chemicals? A belt sander? I don't know the answer to that.

[amiles]

Thing is this is a snowflake wheel and not suited for use with a tire without an inner tube. I don't have to worry about actually sealing the bead just cause it to contact the rim evenly around the circumference of the wheel. I bet I would have an easier time of this were I not using a tube.

Sorry that I used unclear language with my original statement. I should have described the goal as "seating" the tire bead in it's proper place engaging the rim. In a sense this being a tubeless tire you are actually kind of doing both seating and sealing at the same time.

One other secret that may be of help is that some experts recommend laying the tire to be mounted out in the hot summer sun so as to make them more supple, thus more workable onto the rim. Too bad it's already September. Perhaps woodnsteel's freezer suggestion modified to chilling the rim and warming the tire might help if the work could be done before the temperatures equalize.

I too buy into the idea that the powder coating is the likely culprit. I still think that some polishing/removal of the coating in the affected area along with some ruglyde lubrication will be your best bet. Perhaps there is some chemical that you could use to safely remove the powdercoat in the mating area?

You didn't hear this from me, but rumor has it that some misguided souls have used WD 40 or similar products to ease tires onto rims.

[James.A]

I just had an idea and amiles needs credit for sparking it. Dry ice wrapped in rags and placed on the rim while it is lying horizontally and then use a hair dryer to heat the tire while pressurized.

[keelerb]

Just went through this myself, with a set of original-size Lasertecs on Snowflake wheels. Job pretty easy EXCEPT for breaking and resetting the beads. I scrubbed the wheels, lubed 'em good, and ran the pressure up to 50 lbs. a few times. Bounced the wheels around trying to move the sidewalls. It took a few tries each wheel, and I'm not sure what I did differently the times it worked.

Just one of those things, I guess.

[keelerb]

Oh, and PS, bought a gallon of RU Glyde for the next time....!

[Red100RT]

I have ordered a pair of Michelin tubes and will post the results when I get them.

Also, I called a BMW dealer and asked their service department for advice. I was told to just run the tire pressure to as high as 180 psi! They told me this is the only way to seat the beads. They even told me that if I am afraid to do it then I should take it to a tire dealer and let them do it. After hearing this I thanked them for their advice and ordered the Michelin tubes. No wonder I am doing most all of my own maintenance now. Oh, for fun I called a tire deal and was told that no way would they run pressure as high as 180 psi or even 100 psi in an attempt to seat the bead on any tire.

I don't know about the powder coat but I do know the inner tubes are a big part of the problem if not the entire problem. I would reinstall the old tubes but they are original and 27 years old. This '81 R100RT only has 6K original miles.:burnout

[Red100RT]

OK, got the Michelin tubes and gave it a try. Installed tubes and tire on front wheel, put the air pressure to it and I think bead has seated, I think. The bead moved out to the rim all around the tire and it looks like it traveled out evenly but, there was no loud POP like I expected. So, I deflated the tire and squeezed the tire all the way around between my knees as hard as I could and I couldn't get the bead to push inward anywhere around the tire. My question is can I assume the bead is seated even though there was no POP? When seating a tubeless tire with an inner tube installed would you always get the POP when the beads seat?

I really want to learn as much as I can about the art of changing motorcycle tires myself because beemer dealers are few and far away and off brand shops are not looking good especially where I live as in there just aren't any and they do not like to work on beemers. The local Yamaha dealer told me he not only doesn't work on them but he doesn't stock my tire sizes and he doesn't like to install tires that he didn't sell. Then he tried to sell me a Yamaha:banghead

[PGlaves]

OK, got the Michelin tubes and gave it a try. Installed tubes and tire on front wheel, put the air pressure to it and I think bead has seated, I think. The bead moved out to the rim all around the tire and it looks like it traveled out evenly but, there was no loud POP like I expected. So, I deflated the tire and squeezed the tire all the way around between my knees as hard as I could and I couldn't get the bead to push inward anywhere around the tire. My question is can I assume the bead is seated even though there was no POP? When seating a tubeless tire with an inner tube installed would you always get the POP when the beads seat?

I really want to learn as much as I can about the art of changing motorcycle tires myself because beemer dealers are few and far away and off brand shops are not looking good especially where I live as in there just aren't any and they do not like to work on beemers. The local Yamaha dealer told me he not only doesn't work on them but he doesn't stock my tire sizes and he doesn't like to install tires that he didn't sell. Then he tried to sell me a Yamaha:banghead

It doesn't always pop. If properly lubricated it can just quietly slide into place.

There should be a moulded ring visible near the wheel, all the way around the tire which you can use as a visible indicator that the tire is seated evenly.

[Red100RT]

It doesn't always pop. If properly lubricated it can just quietly slide into place.

There should be a moulded ring visible near the wheel, all the way around the tire which you can use as a visible indicator that the tire is seated evenly.


You are correct about the molded ring around the tire and this ring is the same distance from the rim all the way around. I am totally convinced that my problem had nothing to do with powder coating and everything to do with the made in China inner tubes I bought. Nothing like Michelin quality I guess.:whistle

Oh, just finished seating the bead on the rear tire and this one produced two load POPS.

I have learned much from this experience and I feel confident in my tire changing abilities. I use the Harbor Freight machine together with a mojo bar. Now I have changed tires on both my '81RT and '04RT. This has paid for my equipment investment especially considering where I live which is nowheresville:banghead
Soon the snows of winter will come and I will be reduced to the status of human snow shovel:banghead :banghead :banghead

[hairsmith]

Ya, I am behind the curve on this thread, but thought I would add to it any way.
Found myself having this same problem a while back, here is the thread form my ordeal (http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21419&highlight=tire+problems).

Glad it worked out for you. My new tire is wearing well 10,000 miles so far.

[aaaaaa]

You didn't hear this from me, but rumor has it that some misguided souls have used WD 40 or similar products to ease tires onto rims.

no way. The tire'll spin off the rim when you do burnouts.
robert

[cactuspat]

The rumor is true; some of us are misguided, but we are going!