2006 R1200RT Eating rear brakes

[wsteinborn]

I have a 2006 R1200RT with 23636 miles on it.

The rear brakes have AGAIN worn out. I heard a scraping noise today, and found the inside pad is worn down to nothing and the rotor is getting torn up. The outside pad is darned thin. The bike is now parked until we can get this fixed.

I think there is a defect or maladjustment with the rear brakes, because I do not use them excessively, my foot rides below the brake pedal, and this is the second time the rears have worn out. I am on the original front brakes. My front brakes provide most of my braking power.

The bike seems to be eating rear brakes and this is not [EDIT: seems not] normal.

After they replaced the rears the first time (just over 13,000 miles) they smelled as if they were burning, but it went away and the rotor wasn't burning/turning blue.

Any ideas?

[108625]

Maybe you have a piston that doesn't want to retract into the caliper, effectively applying some rear brake on that pad. It can be caused by a friction issue, or a fluid return problem on that side of the caliper. Such a condition might not cause any fault warnings right away either.
I think you are right not to ride until it's resolved, it can be a serious safety issue.

Bob

[marchyman]

My front brakes provide most of my braking power.


And you know this because :ear

Assuming you have a bike with ABS you've got integrated brakes so every time you grab the front lever both brakes are applied. Yeah, we all assume that more of the front is being grabbed than the rear, but have you measured this? On your bike? Has anyone measured this on any bike?


The bike seems to be eating rear brakes and this is not normal.

My '05 GS went through the first set of pads in about 18K. Postings on various forum suggest that I got more life than some (most?). There were some complaints of people toasting pads in less than 5K. I carefully cleaned and lubricated the rear caliper when replacing the pads with another pair of stock organic pads. The replacement set is less than 1/2 used in the same mileage that toasted the original pair.

What changed? :dunno

// marc

[Polarbear]

Integrated brakes are a bit troublesome to me, because I ride many bikes without it too. The integrated system on the BMW is a front lever action ONLY and the pedal needs NO application and if you do so, the rear brake gets used up. Using the foot and hand to apply BMW integrated brakes will apply more rear brake than one may expect. Am I the only one thinking this??? My BMW wrench told me the hand lever applies about 60F/40R%, via the hand lever alone, so why would one even use the rear brake pedal, most of the time. Anyhow, it sure gets confusing when switching bikes, without it. One has to think carefully, which bike has it and which don't. Randy:thumb

[Motorradfahrer]

2005 1200 GS here:

I have ABS integrated brakes and assume wsteinborn has the same. With integrated brakes one only has to apply the front brake lever which will apply braking power to both wheels. Rear foot braking is only used when needed: gravel/ dirt riding..slow curving..light stopping...slow slowing down, etc. From the old school of thought(MSF)..one is to always apply both brakes for the purpose of stopping is no longer the norm with BMW integrated brake system.

BMW front brake pads are sintered pads and since you have two surface areas for stopping one would assume that the front last longer while the rear has only one surface area and the pads are made of organic material, thus quicker wear. This is normal, but as wsteinborn explained his uneven rear pad wear...this is not normal..it's possible that like 108625 explained that it might be a piston problem. Many Alaska haul-road BMW riders carry extra rear brake pads for the simple reason that they use the rear brake more often on gravel and the addition of calcium chloride on the road, ads to the wear of the rear pads.

[kbasa]

I have a 2006 R1200RT with 23636 miles on it.

The rear brakes have AGAIN worn out. I heard a scraping noise today, and found the inside pad is worn down to nothing and the rotor is getting torn up. The outside pad is darned thin. The bike is now parked until we can get this fixed.

I think there is a defect or maladjustment with the rear brakes, because I do not use them excessively, my foot rides below the brake pedal, and this is the second time the rears have worn out. I am on the original front brakes. My front brakes provide most of my braking power.

The bike seems to be eating rear brakes and this is not normal.

When they replaced the rears the first time (12,000 or 18,000 miles) they smelled as if they were burning, but it went away and the rotor wasn't burning/turning blue.

Any ideas?

Do you ride with your instep on the peg by any chance?

[ricoshay]

I have a 2006 R1200RT with 23636 miles on it.

The rear brakes have AGAIN worn out. I heard a scraping noise today, and found the inside pad is worn down to nothing and the rotor is getting torn up. The outside pad is darned thin. The bike is now parked until we can get this fixed.

I think there is a defect or maladjustment with the rear brakes, because I do not use them excessively, my foot rides below the brake pedal, and this is the second time the rears have worn out. I am on the original front brakes. My front brakes provide most of my braking power.

The bike seems to be eating rear brakes and this is not normal.

When they replaced the rears the first time (12,000 or 18,000 miles) they smelled as if they were burning, but it went away and the rotor wasn't burning/turning blue.

Any ideas?

At 32k the rear brakes on my 05-R12RT are due for replacement, though the inner pad is not quite worn to the wear indicator hole, it's very close. These will be the first set of rear pads for this bike. I'd suspect a sticking caliper piston in your case.

At 20k miles I found three of the four front pads worn 25% and the fourth pad was 80% gone. It was the outer left side pad, FWIW. I also was experiencing a pulsing front brake chatter, so I took the bike in to the dealer. They agreed with me that one of the front caliper outer pistons was sticking. There was no visible color difference between the two front rotors to indicate overheating of the left rotor.

BMWNA authorized replacement of the left front caliper, left front rotor and the left front outer pad. That's right, one pad. Pulsing is gone and the pad appears to be wearing normally now.

Just one data point, hope it helps.

[deilenberger]

I have a 2006 R1200RT with 23636 miles on it.

The rear brakes have AGAIN worn out. I heard a scraping noise today, and found the inside pad is worn down to nothing and the rotor is getting torn up. The outside pad is darned thin. The bike is now parked until we can get this fixed.

OK.. but it doesn't sound implausable that this is normal.. more below.

I think there is a defect or maladjustment with the rear brakes, because I do not use them excessively, my foot rides below the brake pedal, and this is the second time the rears have worn out. I am on the original front brakes. My front brakes provide most of my braking power.
I'd ask when DO you use the rear brakes? With the linked brakes, I do 95% of my stopping with the front lever alone. I use my rear brake when stopped at a light sometimes (so I can let go of the front to itch my nose or something), and occasionally for trail-braking on a low speed corner (parking lot speed.)

Even with that low use - my R1200R rear brake pads needed replacement at about 14-16,000 miles. And the rear wheel gets a lot of brake dust on it (partly due to the design of the caliper being located fully inside the rim) - much more than the front shows.

If you're using the rear brake in situations besides what I do - and you have a heavier bike - I could see that sort of brake pad life to be "normal"..
The bike seems to be eating rear brakes and this is not normal.
Actually - might be.
When they replaced the rears the first time (12,000 or 18,000 miles) they smelled as if they were burning, but it went away and the rotor wasn't burning/turning blue.

Any ideas?
The inner pad is for some reason considerably thinner - brand new - than the outer pad. Dunno why, except perhaps so it purposely wears out earlier since the "wear-hole" is on the inner pad.

If that's the wear pattern you've seen, inner pad first, outer pad not far behind - sounds as if you're seeing normal wear, and you don't have a binding caliper. The rear caliper is a sliding caliper design, if the sliding bit was hung up - the inside pad would wear much faster than the outer one. If you can rotate your wheel fairly easily in neutral on the center-stand, then the piston/hydraulics aren't hanging up.

This is truly a case of YMMV - I'd expect the range of "normal" in this case is probably from 10k-30k, very much depending on riding style, where you ride (stop-go, highway) and riding speeds.

PS: I'll fix the title of your thread.. from "read" to "rear"..

[wsteinborn]

I just got the "that's normal" from the dealership. From all the "that's normal" talk, I need a new rear tire and new rear brakes every 10,000 miles?

Geeze.......... I expect I'll have a big fight on my hands trying to get them to pull apart the brake system under warranty.

13K+ on the first set and less than 10K on the second set of pads? I find it hard to believe. I am not an agressive rider. 80% of my miles are commuting to work. I would have thought if I were a heavy brake user something would have shown at my last service 4000 miles ago.

KBasa - due to foot pain, I use floorboards and my toe is always off the rear brake pedal. In fact, I use the rear less than I did before just because of the extra effort to use it now.

Even though I told them this is my main transportation to work, they'll fit me in, over a week from now. Having just one dealer sucks.

grumble.... grumble......

I love how the RT handles, and the electric windshield is the cat's a$$. It is a really comfy bike. But darn, my ex-HD was mechanically more reliable and required a lot less on-going expenses.

Sometimes it makes me wonder if I did the right thing.

[wsteinborn]

Maybe I just have unreal expectations. Maybe everything is OK, but it just feels wrong to me. :dunno

Taking the bike to my dealer is inconvenient - taking it evey 6,000 miles is tough enough, but taking it every 10,000 for brakes is going to suck. (I do about 15,000 a year)

I may have to buy the twinmax and start doing my own work, darn it. (I am the furthest thing from a mechanic) :banghead


Thanks for all your advice. :bow (And for changing the thread title - that was bugging me.)

[wsteinborn]

Hmmmm....

Since there are patches of metal missing from the rotor (on the inside side) maybe that accelerated the pad wear, rather than being the result of the pad wearing down to metal.............

[deilenberger]

Hmmmm....

Since there are patches of metal missing from the rotor (on the inside side) maybe that accelerated the pad wear, rather than being the result of the pad wearing down to metal.............

Huh? What sort of patches of metal missing?

[MPATROVSKY]

Pictures would be nice. My 04 1150RT went 26000 miles before I sold it for the 06 1200RT and according to the BMW shop it still had over 75% of pad life remaining front and rear. They accused me of replacing the pads between services but I didn't, I just don't use the brakes much.

[108625]

Hmmmm....

Since there are patches of metal missing from the rotor (on the inside side) maybe that accelerated the pad wear, rather than being the result of the pad wearing down to metal.............

Whoa, this is an arresting development. I'm with Don and Marty on this request, can you describe it in more detail and maybe include a picture?
By the way, if at any time you did use your rear brake only, how did it feel?

Bob

[wsteinborn]

Well, it seems the "patches" may be torn up rotor with metal from the pad attached.

Pictures on the way.

Every now and then gong down the highway the bike would slow just like it was hit with a big gust of wind, but it wasn't that windy. I never thought much about it until now.....

[wsteinborn]

Without picking at it, I really can't tell how damaged the rotor is beyond heavy grooving, but there obviously aren't "patches" missing. That s just how it felt, when I was blindly reaching around.

Outside of the rotor showing a pad with 1mm of thickness left:
http://www.dustyjacket.com/images/brake_op.jpg

Inside of the rotor:
http://www.dustyjacket.com/images/brake_ir.jpg

Inside pad is gone - well into the metal backing:
http://www.dustyjacket.com/images/brake_ip.jpg

[deilenberger]

IMHO - the rotor is toast. The metal backing chewed up the rotor and transferred some metal to it. Since there is no way to turn/grind these rotors, it's time for a new one.

Sorryaboutdat..

[57502]

Replaced my rear pads at 22,000 with my second tire change. I felt lucky to catch them less than paper thin just in time. A dealer sold me an after market set that has much thicker pads for less money. This is the price we pay for awesome controled stopping power. Take a flashlight and check pad thickness with regular service. They are simple to change.

[wsteinborn]

I checked when I took the photos above: my front pads are maybe halfway into the wear grooves, if that far. They look good for another 10,000 or 15,000.

I wonder why the rears wear so much faster. (I did not actually verify the dealer put new rears on at 13,000 but they charged me for it.

[heavyjetpfe]

I hate to be the one to ask the dumb question. But, do you guard the rear brake while riding? What I mean by this is do you keep your right foot above or just touching the brake lever? If you do then you might be inadvertantly riding the rear brake. When I first got my Rt I was in the habit of keeping my right foot pressed against the side of the brake lever until a friend mentioned that my brake light was on an awful lot. I now keep my foot well away from the rear brake. When my rear brakes were changed at 33,000 miles (FD failure) the mechanic said I still had 50 percent left.

[wsteinborn]

No.
In fact, due to foot pain as I got older, I use floorboards and my toes ride under/behind the foot pedal.

This is my third motorcycle, and it is the only one I have seen the rear brakes wear before the front brakes. And the only one where the brkes went so quickly.

When I had the rear pads replaces at just over 13,000 miles the dealer said they probably had another couple of thousand left on them, but I was going on a long trip.

Now this last set wore down to the metal in 10,000 miles. (there is still brake material in the two tell-tale holes somehow) which is about 1/4 less mileage than the first set and I was being cautious of the rear brake after the first set wore so quickly.

[deilenberger]

When I had the rear pads replaces at just over 13,000 miles the dealer said they probably had another couple of thousand left on them, but I was going on a long trip.
And based on my experience - that doesn't sound out of the range of "normal"..Now this last set wore down to the metal in 10,000 miles. (there is still brake material in the two tell-tale holes somehow) which is about 1/4 less mileage than the first set and I was being cautious of the rear brake after the first set wore so quickly.The fact that this set wore faster makes me think something changed.

Was the outside pad worn to about 3/32" thickness? That's about where my outside pad was when my inside was really paper thin. If the outside pad was significantly thicker than that - I'd be looking at the slider mechanism on the caliper (it's a single piston caliper with a sliding body that equalizes the force from the outside pad to the inside pad.)

If it was about that thick - then I'd say it's working as per design, and something else changed.. perhaps more high speed riding/braking? Two-up riding? Heavily loaded riding? Hilly road riding? Dunno..

The rear pad is a bit harder to check thickness on than the fronts - but it can be done without relying on the hole in the inside pad, or caliper removal. I'd suggest it's probably a good thing to check at every oil change.

[soffiler]

...Now this last set wore down to the metal in 10,000 miles. (there is still brake material in the two tell-tale holes somehow) which is about 1/4 less mileage than the first set and I was being cautious of the rear brake after the first set wore so quickly.

Two holes? Reason I ask is that the GS only has one. If the RT is like the GS, then perhaps you're looking at the wrong holes.

[wsteinborn]

2 holes:

http://www.dustyjacket.com/images/brake_holes.jpg

[wsteinborn]

The dealer has it now..... stay tuned for what they say, other than Bring More Wallet.........

[wsteinborn]

Well, the bike is back from the dealer.

They say nothing is wrong with the bike.

Maybe all the gravel roads and Colorado mountain riding I did this year might have caused me to use the rear brake a lot more than I thought I was. I don't know. So we'll be keeping a close eye on my brakes.....

They covered the new rotor and I paid for the pads and labor. Rear caliper looks different somehow, but maybe because it is clean.

I am just so happy to get back on the RT and off my wife's Buell.

[BMWRich58]

Lot of past talk about rear brakes having early lives at ADV Rider (do a search).
Me...,my '07 ADV with just a hair under 20K and I'll be lucky to see 25K with my rear pads,fronts look wonderful. And like most,it's usually the one pad with the most wear causing the early need to change.
So I highly doubt it's a"heavy or big foot dragging on the pedal or ABS or linked thingy,or trail braking".
I feel it's the "designed residual pressure" in the system that allows the caliper to drag ever so much causing premature failure/wear.
Just another item to keep an eye on.
Like the Dealer says...They All Do That...! Well it come from the Factory like that on more than 1 bike so I believe it was a bad engineering design.
My '02 RT went 36K miles before I changed pads (could of went more) and no difference in riding style or habits.

[wsteinborn]

The pads they used this time do not have the silver metal backing and do not have a hole in the back of the inside pad to judge depth of wear. I don't think they are using BMW pads. Or if they are, then the wrong ones.

I went to the service CD-ROM. They don't mention part numbers but they mention the rings on the pad pin for indicating wear. When all 3 rings are not "inside" the pad it is time to replace them.

The CD:
http://www.dustyjacket.com/images/indicate.jpg


My brakes when I took the bike in:
http://www.dustyjacket.com/images/brake_op.jpg
Way, way, way overdue.

Makes me wonder if they even changed them at 13,000 which I paid for. Certainly at my 18,000/19,000 there should have been some sign of badness.

I will be keeping an eye on these rings a LOT !

And they said stay off the back brake pedal in normal braking.

[108625]

wsteinborn,

I'm at nearly 14,000 on my bike, and still have over 75% pad life indicated.
I really wonder if your sliding caliper is only sliding one way.
When you apply the brakes, the pistons press on one side of the rotor (through the pads), and outward against the caliper body. The caliper body moves outward from that side of the rotor, and since it wraps around the opposite side, inward against it (through the other pads).
When you release the brakes, the pistons retract back into the caliper, and allow the caliper itself to slide back away from the rotor on the opposite side.
It is hard to get contaminants or corrosion inside the brake cylinders to cause a piston to hang up, but not impossible.
It is much easier for dirt and corrosion to work their way into the more vulnerable outer caliper body and the points where it "slides". This is not a rare occurence in older disc brake cars, which use "floating" (aka sliding) calipers, and are exposed to much more road filth and possible salts in winter. It isn't as common in street bikes, where the brakes are out in the open and easier to keep clean. I have had it happen on an old trail bike.
Looking at the picture, your rear brake looks a bit on the dirty and corroded side.
If it often looks that way, it is possible there has been enough crud there, or corrosion beneath it, at least at some time, to resist the caliper moving away from the rotor and holding the inside pad against it. This would cause premature pad wear, and overheat the rotor as well, making it more vulnerable to the chewing up it received.
Please excuse my wordy hypothesis, but based on your description of your rear brake use, it's the most reasonable explanation I could think of.

Bob