Omega? Boyer?

[sumran]

I am considering installing an electronic ignition system. I know many are not in favor of that; feel free to tell me that it is a bad idea. My question is regarding the Omega system versus the Boyer system. I have points in a can, so I don't think Dyna is an option.

I would appreciate input and shared experiences about these systems. Thanks.

[AnnapolisAirhead]

I have it on mine and have had zero problems with it. It came that way to me.

Seems to be an almost religious devide between points folks and electronic folks with the main difference being that points can be fixed on the side of the road. While that is certainly true, they are also a lot more maintenance. Most vehicles on the road today use electronic ignition and the rotten gear has been sorted to the side in favor of proven components that are ultra reliable. OTOH, if you are diagnosing a problem on a points bike (like my ole /6), I used to lay the plug on the cylinder head to check for spark. Electronic ignitions should be grounded, according to Clymer's even still that makes me too concerned about damaging other electrical things. One up for a points bike there, IMO.

Another oddity is that it also has a Dyno Ignition booster normally used just for points systems (I think). The reasoning behind it was to make starts easier on a dual plugged heads. Not sure if yours are dual plugged or not. The booster is a PIA and space consumer on the frame under the tank which affects the throttle capsule placement, etc.

I did read of one electronic ignition installation that preserved enough points parts to revert to them in an emergency. Just as you did that, your single drive shaft would give out. Point being, some things you just need to rely upon, IMO. I've had just over 60 vehicles, mostly classic German beasts but lots of US cars from the early 60's to the late 90's and haven't had any issues with points of electronic ignition. Points are more work to me, but then again my bike came with electronic ignition stock. Not sure if I'd update a points bike or not...probably only if it were giving my headaches. Neither is rocket science, as I am sure you know.

Lots of experts in here. Not sure exactly what Dennis means by 'self-appointed expert' but clearly you know your bike and mechanical issues. My experience in this forum is that largely, folks are helpful but you need to filter it carefully. Most folks are helpful and provide different perspectives, but none of us is as smart as all of us. You ask for input and it certainly can pour in sometimes. The tougher job, in my opinion is separating fact from BS from guesses. Choose your poison. ;-)

[DennisDarrow]

Randy...........

For me, this is a question for the individual.

If one has to have the latest toy.....then go for it

If one thinks they know more than the engineers..........then go for it

If one is "new to this game"; but think what they read but havent experienced, makes them an expert and self appointed qualified person to give advice....then go for it....or advise to do so

If one finds that every 10K miles is to much to go in and make a simple adjustment/repair........then go for it

If one is inept at repair; but doesnt want to pay for the maintenance issue and trusts the flow of electrons through several devices that can easily fail.....then go for it

On and on........I guess, Randy, it is up to YOU the maintainer/owner/rider......what works for YOU?????.............Either way is not a stigma nor a loss.............Lots of us have been down both roads and have experienced what you are pondering...........For me, it's just that what I have at present works just fine.....If it aint broke....why fix it...........Dennis

[sumran]

Mine is not fully broken, but it is not where it should be. I have some ghosting of the timing marks and timing is not quite as steady as it should be. There have been some problems with my advance mechanism sticking. I have replaced the timing chain and the gears are in very good condition. Based on conversations with some smart Airhead guys (including Rick at Motorrad), it is likely that something inside of my bean can is not moving freely. A full disassembly, cleaning and lube would probably fix it. If things are too worn, replacing the can is expensive.

I like electronic ignitions and I am comfortable with the failure risk of a well designed system. The failure risk of a poorly designed system is not attractive. The maintenance involved in points systems on our machines is easy to do. I don't think I would replace it just to get an electronic system. Installation of a points amplifier makes it even less bothersome.

If mine has significant problems when I get in there, I may opt for electronic rather than a more costly replacement. If that happens, I wanted to get some input as to which of the systems works better.

[rocketman]

I've been using Dyna III's for the past 9 years had the first one fail at 4 years, but had my points with me and left the wiring and cap. in place so it was an easy replacement and I was on the road again in less than an hour.(The dyna uses the same advance as the stock points on my 78) During the time I have had the second one, as with the first, I check it every so often and timing is always dead on. Will probably replace the current one this winter and keep this one as a spare with the bike, then I'll have two back-up systems with me at all times.

RM

[PMonk]

If my /6 was my only or main mode of transportation I would probably opt for electronic ignition. I had Dyna 111 on my first BMW. Only problem I had was on my first ride the trigger slipped because I had not tightened set screw well enough.
Had to be towed home by a Honda that had a battery failure earlier in the ride. I razed him so much about his fuel injected motorcycle being unable to run without a battery I was lucky he towed me home. Anyway after that embarrasing episode I had no further trouble.

On my new ride I am going to leave the points on the bike. Heck it starts so fast I usually never hear the motor turn over. Why try to improve on that?
I just enjoy tinkering with the /6 and I bought it to have fun with.

[Rod Sheridan]

Diann has had the same Dyna on her R60/7 for over twenty years. She has also carried a set of points, a capacitor, and the advance unit with her for twenty years.

I installed a Boyer digital on my R90/6 since it was in my opinion, a better solution than replacing a worn out advance mechanism.

I still carry the above mechanical parts with me on trips.

The advantage that points have are twofold

- they are field repairable

- they allow a bike with low voltage to start, the electronic ignition modules do not.

The advantage that electronic ignition modules have is;

- thet aren't field repairable, because you don't have to, as often.

Regards, Rod.

[benway]

you should also consider the silent hektic system from motoren israel. imo, it is probably the best made of the crank driven ignitions. if you are replacing coils, leads etc as well, the cost is not far off the omega

I have read about and seen quite a few serious problems with the omega ign. I dont think its a good design to have a microchip in such a hot environment.

also, the advance "curves" are pretty dreadful, more like steps and quality control is not so hot. there is zero parts support from the canadian distributor-- ie he doesnt have any!

hope that helps

[sumran]

you should also consider the silent hektic system from motoren israel. imo, it is probably the best made of the crank driven ignitions. if you are replacing coils, leads etc as well, the cost is not far off the omega

I have read about and seen quite a few serious problems with the omega ign. I dont think its a good design to have a microchip in such a hot environment.

also, the advance "curves" are pretty dreadful, more like steps and quality control is not so hot. there is zero parts support from the canadian distributor-- ie he doesnt have any!

hope that helps

Do you have a link for the system you suggested? I didn't find anything on Google. Perhaps a spelling variation.

[AnnapolisAirhead]

Do you have a link for the system you suggested? I didn't find anything on Google. Perhaps a spelling variation.

http://tinyurl.com/Hektik

[47512]

I have a 75 R75/6, with 168,000 miles, I put a Dyna on it that failed within 10,000 miles, I did not have the points with me so a truck ride home. Then I installed a Boyer, thats been over 20 years ago, I do carry the points with me just to keep the ign. unit honest. I also have a Norton Commando with a Boyer that I installed in 1980, no probblems. But as stated above if you have weak battery and the starter draws the voltage down below 10 volts they will not start. The Norton has a kick starter so it's not an issue, but on a BMW you may have to push.

Ken G.

[sumran]

http://tinyurl.com/Hektik

Thanks for the link. That is an interesting site. Not for the purist or the economy-minded.:ha

[benway]

those prices are less the 19% german tax, for US orders

and thats a complete system-- ign, plug wires, coils

its cheaper if you just buy the ign

[sumran]

None of this will get too serious until I determine the condition of my points can internals. I have some testing to do on the coils and some rebuilding to do on the can. If all of that goes well, I will continue along with my stock system. I expect I will add a amplifier to extend points life.

If those things don't go well I may add the electroic ignition. The Silent-Hetik system is impressive. From what I have read it is well made, durable and functions very well. I would enjoy seeing some of the items on their website up close. Do they ever show up at rallies or events? Are there any US distributors?

[ecyarter]

I put a DynaTech III on my 76 R750 about 20 years ago. It has never given any problems. (I still have the bike, and it still runs great). I remember I liked being able to adjust the timing separately for the two cylinders. Other than that, I don't remember much about it, mainly because it doesn't require any maintenance. I think I may have a set of points rattling around in the tool tray...

[mutineer]

225 bucks

is that a joke

I just put a breakerless points set up in a Volkswagen and it was 40 bucks

does pertronix or anyone else make one


225 is just silly

I have the "points in a can"

as te bike is a resurrection I have no earthly idea just how the bean can set up works and whether or not I need to replace it

[rocketman]

225 bucks

is that a joke

I just put a breakerless points set up in a Volkswagen and it was 40 bucks

does pertronix or anyone else make one


225 is just silly

I have the "points in a can"

as te bike is a resurrection I have no earthly idea just how the bean can set up works and whether or not I need to replace it


not really, when you consider that it gets you a system that you NEVER have to adjust, period. once set up its just ride and go.... any points system requires maintenance, setting, cleaning the points, gapping, checking, re-setting as they wear etc, guess it depends on what your time is worth. For me its a no-brainer, and I know the bike is always operating with maximum spark and dead-on timing.

Figure what the cost of new/replacement points or the "can" is gonna cost you over say 5-6 years and 60K plus miles that you are likely to get on an electronic system at minimum and I'd be willing to bet that alone will work out to be cheaper , add that to cost of your time as mentioned above... and it works out to be damn cheap...

Its Not a wv and how many years ago did you do the work on the VW? Can't really compare the to as i suspect it was some time ago, remember when WV's sold for around 2000 and a new BMW was only a bit more? well parts were a lot cheaper back then as well.

RM