wiring problem R100 /7

[rocketman]

On the way home today my R100/7 ('78) did something really strange. I was getting close to home when I heard a really BAD noise, mechanical in nature I starting losing power and then the bike died along with all the lighting, dash, running lights in the jammer everything. I pulled over and started checking things out, no oil anywhere and after a few minutes not finding anything obvious wrong, and it rolled just fine I turned on the key and got very dim lights on the dash, and turn signals worked along with brake light, but no headlight or tail light or running lights??? so I got up to the top of a hill and started coasting down, dropped it in second and let out the clutch and she fired right up. I rode home the last mile, no noise and everything except lighting seemed fine, no noises nada nothing and motor seemed smooth as always.

After rechecking the lighting, still the same, in the on position no headlight (but the highbeam flasher worked) no tail light and no instrument lights or running lights, but the indicator lights in the center console worked, turn signals worked and high beam flasher worked. then I put the key in "park" and the running lights, instruments lighting (that light the speedo and tach) and tail light all worked. I know the tail light should come on in 'park' but not the instrument lighting!

Both fuses were good. So I removed the jammer and started poking around in the headlight shell. I found that the headlight relay was burned and one of the contacts in the relay came out of the relay housing when I started removing the connectors several of which had badly melted insulation, but none of the wiring or connectors themselves were touching.

I don't get it, why would the instruments lighting come on in "park" but then go off with the key in the "run" position?? Thats just the opposite of what they Should do! And the tail light and running lights go out as well, thou they work fine in "park"? Turn signals, horn, center console idiot lights, high beam flasher, starter relay, brake light are all fine in 'run' position,

I understand that with a toasted relay the headlight isn't going to work, but why does the high beam flasher work? And why do the running lights now go out in "run" mode but still work in "park"? And can an electrical short cause those strange metallic sounding noises??? At least that's what it sounded like but with my loss of hearing and full face helmet on I can't be sure of anything noise related....If there was a mechanical problem causing the noise, it doesn't seem likely it would just go away after five minutes of sitting. A toasted bearing or broken piston ring, or thrown gear, or rear end failure doesn't just stop such a failure is well, permanent, till its fixed, right?

I know all the blubs are good (except maybe the lowbeam) since they come on in one of the two possible key positions, but they aren't coming on correctly. As far I can remember the running lights in the fairing are wired to the what was the "parking" light circuit in the old headlight. Does the parking light and instrument lighting circuits need the headlight circuit to be closed for them to work in "run" position?

Very very strange. any one got any ideas??? Ignition switch wiring looked fine and no other signs anywhere in the head light bucket of burned or crossed wiring...

RM

[skiteach]

Wierd things happen when sorts occur! The loss of ground will backfeed the system looking for ground and make the strangest things happen. I once won $50. on a bet with 5 electrical engineers that I could fix the "christmas tree" lites on an Audi with 2 wires and 5 min- I won. Replace the fried relay, make sure that grounds and feeds are good (volt/ohm meter). Relay could have just plain failed and caused all problems. Sometimes the insulation will melt and resolidify, which may be why some things worked after a cool down.

[cjack]

Park turns on the parking lights with the ign switch...tail and the little one in the head light. ON turns off the parking lights but turns on the relay which powers the head light and the parking lights both. No relay, no head or tail light in ON.
All else is separate. The high beam flasher is separately wired around the relay.
Don't know about the clang sound but it does sound like the relay failed with a bang.

[rocketman]

Wierd things happen when sorts occur! The loss of ground will backfeed the system looking for ground and make the strangest things happen. I once won $50. on a bet with 5 electrical engineers that I could fix the "christmas tree" lites on an Audi with 2 wires and 5 min- I won. Replace the fried relay, make sure that grounds and feeds are good (volt/ohm meter). Relay could have just plain failed and caused all problems. Sometimes the insulation will melt and resolidify, which may be why some things worked after a cool down.

I removed the relay when I found it had gone south, the battery was almost dead, its charging and the bike starts and sounds fine, brake light, turn signals and horn work, but the other lighting problems remain as detailed in my post.

Tomorrow when I get home I'll take it around the block a few times and see if I hear any strange noises. I am wondering now if maybe I was hearing the relay frying, as I said with my hearing loss (due to a dead nerve in my right inner ear) and constant tinnitus things sound very different for me than most others.

RM

[rocketman]

Park turns on the parking lights with the ign switch...tail and the little one in the head light. ON turns off the parking lights but turns on the relay which powers the head light and the parking lights both. No relay, no head or tail light in ON.
All else is separate. The high beam flasher is separately wired around the relay.
Don't know about the clang sound but it does sound like the relay failed with a bang.
That's what I'm thinking as well, but why does the instrument lighting come on in "park" then go off in "On"? Thats what has me really stumped!

RM

[AnnapolisAirhead]

That's what I'm thinking as well, but why does the instrument lighting come on in "park" then go off in "On"? Thats what has me really stumped!

RM

Bummer to hear about the bang. :doh

Hard to diagnose electrical problems after a fried relay, especially if other things were still 'hot' after the bang. Maybe something else was smoldering, long after the bang.

I'd start by checking out resistance readings. Just a thought.

[skiteach]

My hearing is also fried! That continueos ringing should be worth something! Wife is a Speech&Language Pathologist- she says I can't hear women and kids- I say: What Dear? You could have heard the relay. Replacing the relay may end all your problems - or start new ones! Isn't it fun? I worked on cars/trucks for close to 30 yrs, now I bang nails. The only thing I've learned is that I haven't seen it all! And wear hearing protection- where'd that damb horse go anyway?

[sumran]

The headlight relay grounds through the solenoid and starter windings. Depending on how the relay failed, it may have engaged the starter for a short time until the relay coil burned up. Did your noise sound like you accidentally hit the starter button? Once that coil failed, it would behave as described.

If that is what caused your problem it should all come back when you replace the relay.

[rocketman]

The headlight relay grounds through the solenoid and starter windings. Depending on how the relay failed, it may have engaged the starter for a short time until the relay coil burned up. Did your noise sound like you accidentally hit the starter button? Once that coil failed, it would behave as described.

If that is what caused your problem it should all come back when you replace the relay.

Damn dude, you're good!:clap I do believe that is what I heard as it lasted around 30-45 seconds till the bike died, it did sound like a grinding noise, which is why I first thought "mechanical" in nature. Having heard a starter engaged while a motor is running in another airhead it did sound similar to that, as much as I can tell. Like I said, if it were a real mechanical failure, it wouldn't just go away and with already weakened battery cause I had the extra two PIAA style aux lights on (by accident, I think my knee may have tripped the switch on the fairing) they can run the battery down if I get stuck idling a lot which did happen on the way home due to road work and a lane closure, so with the starter running for that period just prior to the bike dieing it could have run the battery down further. I'm going to relocate the switch for the two extra lights somewhere else while I'm at it. All other wiring looks good so hopefully the relay will fix it.

just for sh*ts and grins here's a pic of the relay,, Mmmmm fried "pot" yummy! Ha Ha! the terminal on the pot on the far left is the one that came out of the pot when I pulled the wires off. Just left a big black hole (I guess that's where all the electrical energy went, damn black holes! oddly enough I have been reading about the theroy of there being millions of tiny black holes just floating around in space, guess one just happened to land in the relay! :laugh)

http://roadrunes.com/images/pot-2.jpg

While I'm in the bucket, I think I'm going to solder some wires to the two fuse holders and run them into the fairing, its a real PITA to change them with the fairing in place. Anyone know if I can use same wattage BUSS fuses instead of the little white "bullet" fuses? I can't find any "in-line" fuse holders for those, but in-line holders for the glass BUSS fuses are easy to get.

Also sources for a decent wiring diagram with terminal numbers, the Clymer diagram doesn't show those for the circuit board connectors. Also sources for the relay, hopefully the local dealership has them but....

Thanks

RM

[rocketman]

My hearing is also fried! That continueos ringing should be worth something! Wife is a Speech&Language Pathologist- she says I can't hear women and kids- I say: What Dear? You could have heard the relay. Replacing the relay may end all your problems - or start new ones! Isn't it fun? I worked on cars/trucks for close to 30 yrs, now I bang nails. The only thing I've learned is that I haven't seen it all! And wear hearing protection- where'd that damb horse go anyway?

Yeah I hear you (well sort of, anyway :laugh) and there IS one advantage, being completely deaf on one side, when the SO or anyone else starts to talk and I'm not in the mood, I can, literally, turn a deaf ear! Ha Ha! What? Did you say something???? :lol

RM

[6659]

I had a dealer sell me a relay that had a dead short to the housing. When I installed it and it was connected to the side wall of the headlight housing it caused a short and melted the wiring. I went back to the dealer and he said that there was nothing wrong with the realy and that the housing is supposed to be hot. He wouldn't take it back. I don't buy from them anymore. I sent off to Motorad Electric and got a proper relay.

Just for safety, I now have the relay installed with a piece of rubber behind it and mounted with a plastic screw. No more problems.

[rocketman]

Yeah! the local dealer has 10 relays in stock so I'll be getting one today and hopefully my problems will be solved, I'm still kinda curious about the instrument lighting coming on in park and off in run, but we will see....

RM

[sumran]

I think the circuit design is flawed because of the potential to have the situation you experienced. I am sure it is a rare occurance, but it could break expensive parts and present safety issues. When I was chasing headlight gremlins, I wired mine with an auxilliary relay and grounded the system to an extra 31 terminal on the fuse connection board. I may lose a headlight relay someday, but it won't engage my starter.

Damn dude, you're good!:clap I do believe that is what I heard as it lasted around 30-45 seconds till the bike died, it did sound like a grinding noise, which is why I first thought "mechanical" in nature. Having heard a starter engaged while a motor is running in another airhead it did sound similar to that, as much as I can tell. Like I said, if it were a real mechanical failure, it wouldn't just go away and with already weakened battery cause I had the extra two PIAA style aux lights on (by accident, I think my knee may have tripped the switch on the fairing) they can run the battery down if I get stuck idling a lot which did happen on the way home due to road work and a lane closure, so with the starter running for that period just prior to the bike dieing it could have run the battery down further. I'm going to relocate the switch for the two extra lights somewhere else while I'm at it. All other wiring looks good so hopefully the relay will fix it.

just for sh*ts and grins here's a pic of the relay,, Mmmmm fried "pot" yummy! Ha Ha! the terminal on the pot on the far left is the one that came out of the pot when I pulled the wires off. Just left a big black hole (I guess that's where all the electrical energy went, damn black holes! oddly enough I have been reading about the theroy of there being millions of tiny black holes just floating around in space, guess one just happened to land in the relay! :laugh)

http://roadrunes.com/images/pot-2.jpg

While I'm in the bucket, I think I'm going to solder some wires to the two fuse holders and run them into the fairing, its a real PITA to change them with the fairing in place. Anyone know if I can use same wattage BUSS fuses instead of the little white "bullet" fuses? I can't find any "in-line" fuse holders for those, but in-line holders for the glass BUSS fuses are easy to get.

Also sources for a decent wiring diagram with terminal numbers, the Clymer diagram doesn't show those for the circuit board connectors. Also sources for the relay, hopefully the local dealership has them but....

Thanks

RM

[jforgo]

"Also sources for a decent wiring diagram with terminal numbers, the Clymer diagram doesn't show those for the circuit board connectors. Also sources for the relay, hopefully the local dealership has them but...."

Yes, the cute "full color" wiring diagrams in Clymer leave much to be desired, not having the terminal numbers.
I have ordered a used Haynes manual for this very reason - in fact am picking it up today. They are usually better organised too, for finding specific info.
Also, the Brits sometimes come up with some handy DIY tips ion other Haynes manuals I have used
CC Products used to make remote circuit breakers to mount in your fairing - don't know if they are still around - or any good actually....
Anybody?

[rocketman]

Well I put the new relay in (bought two just in case something else was frying the circuit) and when I put the switch in park, same thing as before and in "run" same thing, instruments lights, headlight, running lights and tail light went off. Hmmmm, so then I hit the high bean flasher and the relay clicked and highbeam came on... AND the rear light and running lights and instrument lights???? Ok so there is something else besides the relay. Only two common things that came to mind were headlight switch not making contact in the low or high beam setting or ignition switch not maintaining contact in full run position. So I jiggled both to see if anything would change, and as i was turning the key from off thru park and to run, the relay clicked as I was going from park to run, then clicked again as it went to full run position.... I backed it off a bit from run toward park and found with it somewhere between park and run everything works as expected but with a tiny bit more movement toward the normal position where the switch "sets in" the contact between some of the wires needed to run the tail, headlight and such is broken.

So its the ignition switch and the dealer had One in stock. It now has my name on it and I pick it up Sat. Problem appears solved. And I now know that the highbeam flash does in fact go thru the relay.

Thanks for all the help, folks.
RM

[cjack]

And I now know that the highbeam flash does in fact go thru the relay.

Thanks for all the help, folks.
RM

BTW, the high beam flash should not turn on the relay. The power for the high beam when pushing flash comes from the green wire which is hot when the ign switch is ON. It has nothing to do with the relay normally.

You should have a good schematic in the original owner's manual showing relay pin numbers and the wire colors that go to them.

The colors on the wires shown in your picture look a little odd to me (other than being melted...). You should have:

Red (from the battery +) on #30,
Black (the wire to the starter motor) on #85,
Green (wire to the ign switch to turn on the relay) goes to #86,
Gray (the instrument and parking lighting) on #87b,
Yellow/White on #87.

Yellow/White is the power that goes to the headlight thru the left high/low beam switch on the handlebars (again, it is not the power for the high beam on flash...for flash, the high beam is disconnected from the yellow/white wire from the relay, actually by returning the hi/lo beam switch to lo beam and then when pushing for flash hi beam is reconnected to the green wire which is switched power from the ign switch).

Replacement switches have sometimes small differences in wire colors.

Earlier, on the /5 bikes, the power came from the red wire which was hot all the time and you could flash the high beam without turning on the ign.


BTW, there is a good CD available from BMW with all the wiring diagrams from the /2 bikes thru to 1993 for all the bikes US and Europe. It also includes the special wiring for emergency signaling, police, etc. The part number is 06 72 7 694 500 and did cost last year about $45. There is also another CD which goes from 1993 up...and a new version just came out to include the latest bikes.

[cjack]

Here are some fuse holders. Good company.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/250/Fuse-Holders/1.html

You can also find 8 amp ckt. breakers, but fuses are much faster.

[rocketman]

BTW, the high beam flash should not turn on the relay. The power for the high beam when pushing flash comes from the green wire which is hot when the ign switch is ON. It has nothing to do with the relay normally.

You should have a good schematic in the original owner's manual showing relay pin numbers and the wire colors that go to them.

The colors on the wires shown in your picture look a little odd to me (other than being melted...). You should have:

Red (from the battery +) on #30,
Black (the wire to the starter motor) on #85,
Green (wire to the ign switch to turn on the relay) goes to #86,
Gray (the instrument and parking lighting) on #87b,
Yellow/White on #87.

Yellow/White is the power that goes to the headlight thru the left high/low beam switch on the handlebars (again, it is not the power for the high beam on flash...for flash, the high beam is disconnected from the yellow/white wire from the relay, actually by returning the hi/lo beam switch to lo beam and then when pushing for flash hi beam is reconnected to the green wire which is switched power from the ign switch).

Replacement switches have sometimes small differences in wire colors.

Earlier, on the /5 bikes, the power came from the red wire which was hot all the time and you could flash the high beam without turning on the ign.


BTW, there is a good CD available from BMW with all the wiring diagrams from the /2 bikes thru to 1993 for all the bikes US and Europe. It also includes the special wiring for emergency signaling, police, etc. The part number is 06 72 7 694 500 and did cost last year about $45. There is also another CD which goes from 1993 up...and a new version just came out to include the latest bikes.

Hmmm, well what can I say? I got the bike in 99 so have no idea what was done to it prior but the pic is as it was when i opened up the headlight, the only other thing I know that has been done was when I put the jammer on and my mechcanic wired the harness for the fairing. there are no "spare" wires in there now, with the exception of one blue/?? (I'm at work now so can't look) wire coming from the left switchgear with a female spade connector on it. It was near the circuit board where the colored area matches the wire color and had several other similar colored wires attached to the board. There is a spare contact on the board, haven't traced the wire yet but when I attached it (without power on) to check for tightness of fit (to try and determin if maybe it had come loose), it fit very tightly so it most likely has been disconnected since I have owned the bike. Don't have the owners manual since I got it used. I'll have to look things over more, but I do know the igintion switch is flaky so picking up a new one today. the screw holding the left switch gear is rusty so put some penitrating oil on it and if I can't get it out today I'll try my small impact hammer on it. then I can see where the 'spare" wire goes. Trying to trace the wires in the clymer diagram it looks like one wire goes to the flasher but since it doesn't have pin outs ??? Guess I will have look again today, interesting info. Everything else in the bucket looked good cept for one wire that was kinked so I put an inline splice on the bad section that I removed. headlight in the fairing was wired with male spade plugs to the headlight socket in the bucket, all well insulated so no shorting there that i can see.

the spare wire to the left was not one of the ones connected, so don't let that throw you off, here is a picture dead-on of the old relay before I disconnected anything

http://roadrunes.com/images/pot-3.jpg

from that I have(had)

Red on 30
green on 87
black on 86
Gray on 87b
Yellow/white on 85

so three of the five wires as it was don't match up with what you say according the wiring diagram you have that has termial numbers? yet its been running for the nearly ten years I've owned it that way with everything working fine, interesting to say the least!?? Understand I'm not saying you are wrong at all since I don't have any referance, just that its interesting that it has been running without incident for so long!
I thought a first trying your set up but looking at the diagram on the relay and thinking this over not sure if I should could be wires colors were switched around, guess the thing to do is trace each one back to see where it goes, could be set up right after 30 years?? who knows....

perhaps then what I'm hearing is the relay DIS-connecting when I push the flasher?? With the ignition switch being suspect??? but I'll know more once I get the new one. Again I plan on taking a picture of it before disconnecting anything, I find that easier than drawing a diagram (much quicker too!)

Oh and that spare wire in the first picture is the one that was wired to the parking blub in the old head lamp, we routed another wire to the terminal it was connented to into the jammer fairing to run the side marker lights in it, so it goes nowhere the other end is cut off and taped so I'm pulling that out of the harness today.
Thanks again..most informative!

RM

[rocketman]

OK, correct me if I'm wrong but


|-----------
| --------------|
|----------------| |
| | |
| |----------- |
| ------| |
| | | | |
| |----|---|---| | |
| | |---| | | |
30 85 86 87 87b


So given the above circuit diagram for the relay (taken from the schematic on the side) forgive the rather crude "drawing"! but you get it gist of it right?, 85-86 is relay coil, 30, 87 and 87b are the two sides of the switched circuit

If the green wire in my case was + power from the switch and connected to 87 and the red wire was + power then it would short immediately, which we know is NOT the case from the fact that it didn’t short last night so.. guess I will have to trace the wires and check for + voltage on each..and check continuity on the ones that don’t show + voltage, man what a PITA!! Well least I’ll learn something in the process!

sounds like maybe the green and yellow/white wires have gotten reversed in thier function/connection at their other end from the relay? does that sound right?

black could go to either 85 or 86 as long as the other side of the coil is connected to power from the switch (?)

RM

[cjack]

OK, correct me if I'm wrong but


|-----------
| --------------|
|----------------| |
| | |
| |----------- |
| ------| |
| | | | |
| |----|---|---| | |
| | |---| | | |
30 85 86 87 87b


So given the above circuit diagram for the relay (taken from the schematic on the side) forgive the rather crude "drawing"! but you get it gist of it right?, 85-86 is relay coil, 30, 87 and 87b are the two sides of the switched circuit

If the green wire in my case was + power from the switch and connected to 87 and the red wire was + power then it would short immediately, which we know is NOT the case from the fact that it didn’t short last night so.. guess I will have to trace the wires and check for + voltage on each..and check continuity on the ones that don’t show + voltage, man what a PITA!! Well least I’ll learn something in the process!

sounds like maybe the green and yellow/white wires have gotten reversed in thier function/connection at their other end from the relay? does that sound right?

black could go to either 85 or 86 as long as the other side of the coil is connected to power from the switch (?)

RM


Actually since there is a diode inside the relay from 85 to 87b you cannot wire it differently. I can't think why it is there, usually to protect the points from back emf arc or maybe something to do with the park position on the ign switch. It does have the effect of powering the parking lights before the relay makes contact. Maybe so they don't blink. Don't know.
If you reversed the yel/ wht and the grn, that would explain why the relay went on with the flash position. I thought about mentioning that, but I got lazy thinking about the possibilities various miswiring, the diode, etc., and thought it best to just follow the diagram of colors to pin numbers and let it go at that.

[cjack]

If there is a change in wire colors, just follow the wires from the relay area back to the circuit board on the back of the headlight or where ever they go. The gray wire goes directly to the circuit board gray area by the one fuse whose other side goes to the parking lights (gray/black). The red is easy...the schematic shows it going to an internal solder connection inside the main wiring harness...but red is red. The green goes to the ign switch directly...should be a short jumper. The black goes to the main wiring harness directly and off to the starter motor...not to the circuit board at all. The yellow/wht wire goes directly to the left switch wiring harness (assuming that you don't have a light switch like the Euro model has).

Windjammer wiring always made a mess of the wiring inside the headlight shell. They looked so pretty when they came from the factory, and within a few years of this or that added to the bike it just about took an EE to trace the wire nest.

[rocketman]

Actually since there is a diode inside the relay from 85 to 87b you cannot wire it differently. I can't think why it is there, usually to protect the points from back emf arc or maybe something to do with the park position on the ign switch. It does have the effect of powering the parking lights before the relay makes contact. Maybe so they don't blink. Don't know.
If you reversed the yel/ wht and the grn, that would explain why the relay went on with the flash position. I thought about mentioning that, but I got lazy thinking about the possibilities various miswiring, the diode, etc., and thought it best to just follow the diagram of colors to pin numbers and let it go at that.

Understand I didn't revserse the wires, it was like that when I first opened it up and when I put the new relay in I did it same as what the picture shows. Note that picture was taken with the original wiring still in place that had been functioning for 9 plus years. And all we added for the jammer is as I said before. So IF the green and yellow/white were reversed at the far ends, it been that way since before my time with it. But I will check all the runs tonight, now that I know what should go to what and if the functions/connections are correct, then I'll note it and leave it as is if I can't undo it (such as the wrong color wiring running to the high/low switch), though I can't imagine how that was done. From what I remember of the way those switches are inside, you can't just change out wires, those are pretty much non-repairable, but I'll certainly double check. It still seems odd that parking and insturment lights would both be on in the "park" setting but if that's what the wiring diagram shows ??? you know this setup much better than me, this is pretty much the first major electrical job I've done on this machine.

RM

[cjack]

Understand I didn't revserse the wires, it was like that when I first opened it up and when I put the new relay in I did it same as what the picture shows. Note that picture was taken with the original wiring still in place that had been functioning for 9 plus years. And all we added for the jammer is as I said before. So IF the green and yellow/white were reversed at the far ends, it been that way since before my time with it. But I will check all the runs tonight, now that I know what should go to what and if the functions/connections are correct, then I'll note it and leave it as is if I can't undo it (such as the wrong color wiring running to the high/low switch), though I can't imagine how that was done. From what I remember of the way those switches are inside, you can't just change out wires, those are pretty much non-repairable, but I'll certainly double check. It still seems odd that parking and insturment lights would both be on in the "park" setting but if that's what the wiring diagram shows ??? you know this setup much better than me, this is pretty much the first major electrical job I've done on this machine.

RM

I was just looking at a new relay and your picture. The colors I have for your picture are 86-black, 87-green, 87b-gray, 30-red, 85-yel/wht. It may be that the wire colors have been altered as to where they connect. Certainly what you had connected has worked and you have to replace them as found. Hope I didn't confuse the issue too unnecessarily.

[rocketman]

I was just looking at a new relay and your picture. The colors I have for your picture are 86-black, 87-green, 87b-gray, 30-red, 85-yel/wht. It may be that the wire colors have been altered as to where they connect. Certainly what you had connected has worked and you have to replace them as found. Hope I didn't confuse the issue too unnecessarily.

Nope not at all, I redid the wires the gray and green were reversed at the other end and then I remembered I had disconnected the y/w one and one other myself before taking the picture :doh ! every thing's back together, new ignition and fairing back on. Everything works and I think the reason the relay fried was the two extra 55W PIAA style lights maybe just added too much draw thru there (since I had a high wattage H4) as they had been on the whole time I was stuck in traffic and they will run down the battery under those conditions (don't ask how I know this :lol). So they are now off the bike, I may just run with one to light the right side of the road way, haven't decided. But all other wiring looks good, no shorts I can see, will check along the backbone under the tank today. Also checked the starter button that I was able to open up, no shorting in there so thats not what caused the starter to engage, will check the starter relay as well.

Thanks for help, I really do appreciate it, without the pins outs you provided it would have been a real PITA.

RM