R100 GS engine into R60/6?

[philosobrad]

Will the R100 engine work with the R60 trans? Is this swap possible on any level?


Full scenario.

I have an r60/6 in great condition......with tired engine.
I have a great R100GS power plant just sitting stagnant.

[rpeckham136133]

What year GS and what tranny? You may be able to swap engine only, using the tranny which will match the driveshaft. The GS had the monoshock arrangment, which had a different driveshaft.

Theoretically it should be doable.... if those engines had the same lower end. Check the configuration on paper first: do they both have the same stroke (bore will be different, that is what gives it more displacement). The GS engine is probably from a later bike, but if it is the same basic block, should be swappable.

Measure distances between the engine mount bolts.

Someone more knowledgeable will have to chime in about possible differences in clutch carrier/tranny splines, etc.

You may need new exhaust headers, the 100 had 40mm exhaust, the 60 would be 38.

[philosobrad]

1993 GS Engine from Paralever setup.

Thanks!! Keep 'em coming!

[rpeckham136133]

Will the R100 engine work with the R60 trans? Is this swap possible on any level?


Full scenario.

I have an r60/6 in great condition......with tired engine.
I have a great R100GS power plant just sitting stagnant.

Just out of curiosity: what do you mean by "tired"... low compression, burns oil, lousy oil pressure, or ??

[philosobrad]

Just out of curiosity: what do you mean by "tired"... low compression, burns oil, lousy oil pressure, or ??

Low compression, burns oil, fouls plugs, smokes terribly.

Of course a rebuild is an option as well..........sooo, speaking of that, what kind of cash outlay are we talking with that scenario.

[vanzen]

Will the R100 engine work with the R60 trans? Is this swap possible on any level?


Full scenario.

I have an r60/6 in great condition......with tired engine.
I have a great R100GS power plant just sitting stagnant.

1980 or 1981, whatever year it was, the flywheel was lightened to what is essentially a ring gear and carrier.
Same year used a redesigned trans (ribbed box) with a differently splined input shaft.
Splines do not match between early and later types.
i.e. 1993 engine and clutch CANNOT be bolted onto a /6 box.
To fit an engine of 1993, it would be necessary to replace the ring gear & carrier, as well as the clutch assembly with an early type (HEAVY) flywheel and clutch in order to use the /6 trans.
Not sure that this is a simple "bolt on" process.
At some point in the mid 70s – different size bolts were used to fix the flywheel to the crank. This may be an issue in using the /6 clutch and flywheel on the 1993 engine, some machining may be necessary.
Seems there is also an issue of flywheel diameter change in the mid 70s ... I don't remember the details.
It is conceivable that a 1993 engine, flywheel & clutch assembly from the /6, and the /6 gearbox MAY bolt together......

Don't forget that with the 93 engine, you now have electronic ignition – and will need an ICU, appropriate coils, 5ohm plug caps, and an electronic tachometer !
Final drive gearing of the R60 may want to be changed with the larger engine.

Crankcases and frame mountings are all the same.
Matching "bore & stroke" is a moot unless rebuilding the R60 with the 1993 parts.
Very few R100s used the 40mm header – most were 38mm.

good luck !

[rpeckham136133]

Low compression, burns oil, fouls plugs, smokes terribly.

Of course a rebuild is an option as well..........sooo, speaking of that, what kind of cash outlay are we talking with that scenario.

Sounds like a ring-job, at the very least. Probably out-of-round cylinders, too, requiring new pistons, rings, boring, etc. Not cheap, but I don't know costs since I try to it all m'self.... and my labor is worthless!

Going back to the 199GS: that Paralever drive is different, as I recall it has a dry driveshaft, so the tranny output etc would be different. The question comes down to the interface between the /6 tranny and "new" engine. It probably is quite do-able. Just be sure the rest of the /6 is worth it.... a little puzzled as to how the engine got so bad if the rest of the bike is in good shape?

[philosobrad]

Sounds like a ring-job, at the very least. Probably out-of-round cylinders, too, requiring new pistons, rings, boring, etc. Not cheap, but I don't know costs since I try to it all m'self.... and my labor is worthless!

Going back to the 199GS: that Paralever drive is different, as I recall it has a dry driveshaft, so the tranny output etc would be different. The question comes down to the interface between the /6 tranny and "new" engine. It probably is quite do-able. Just be sure the rest of the /6 is worth it.... a little puzzled as to how the engine got so bad if the rest of the bike is in good shape?


That sir, would make two of us.
BTW, this is a recent purchase, and required a serious Bing clean to get her off and running at all. But for 400.00.............I figured she was worth saving.

[rpeckham136133]

Sounds like VANZEN has the straight scoop. I have learned that my Oct 75 has the "new" crankshaft with the larger 11mm bolts, but that shortly after that, the cranks also had an o-ring which mine does not. There was definitely an evolution and transition, but nevertheless an awful lot of parts/engines are directly swappable in the years of the /6 and /7's.

Another alternative would be to find a take-out R60 engine, or possibly just jugs and cylinders, etc, as a lot of that-vintage bikes were bumped up with the bigger displacement top ends. The 60 wasn't real popular when you could relatively easily go to a 75 or 90//

It all boils down to $$ (happens alot :blah ) and how much you want to spend. I am having a blast redoing my $500 60/6 into a cafe/fun bike. It was so bad that I felt comfortable in doing what I am doing, without bastardizing a perfectly good bike, and incurring the wrath of the purists! Iwas basically lucky in that the engine and running gear were fundamentally good, though sadly neglected.

I don't know if you might be interested, but I have a thread going on ADVRiders regarding my project:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363638

Warning: ADVRiders can be very "irreverent" if you get intrigued and start surfing around........ but there is a tremendous wealth of knowledge there, as well.

[philosobrad]

I'm an avid ADV member as well............Will check it out. Good stuff so far, and of course all options are being looked at. I've been waiting for a "60" engine to surface for a while now, with no luck. This is the wife's machine, so no customzing allowed per her!

[philosobrad]

BTW, just found a /6 trans on Ebay.....

[vanzen]

...that Paralever drive is different, as I recall it has a dry driveshaft, so the tranny output etc would be different.

The Paralever and dry shaft on a type247 does not necessarily imply a changed drive flange, in fact, they are the same.
As evidence, MAX BMW lists the same part # for the drive flange of an R100R (Paralever 1991-95)
and a 1977-84 R100RS (Part # 23211232557 – drive flange)

[rpeckham136133]

Hey Vanzen, if you are the RockerBoxer guy, which it looks like, I have to say that your website has been a real source of information and inspiration to me.

I have a traditional R50/2 with a couple of little differences, but my 60/6 is getting a little bit changed into something fun. Nothing like your projects, to be sure, but nevertheless it has been a hoot to get away from the ever-so-proper, and ve-must-di-it-zis-vay mentality of the vintage bikes....

Thanks much :bow

[vanzen]

Hey Vanzen, if you are the RockerBoxer guy, which it looks like, I have to say that your website has been a real source of information and inspiration to me.

appreciate that. THANKS !

...I have a traditional R50/2 with a couple of little differences, but my 60/6 is getting a little bit changed into something fun...

I have been tuning in to ADV to keep tabs on your /6 project.
Glad you "salvaged" that machine ! (talk about forlorn & mistreated !)
Have fun with it !

[philosobrad]

The Paralever and dry shaft on a type247 does not necessarily imply a changed drive flange, in fact, they are the same.
As evidence, MAX BMW lists the same part # for the drive flange of an R100R (Paralever 1991-95)
and a 1977-84 R100RS (Part # 23211232557 – drive flange)

Any further advice on this would be appreciated.

[vanzen]

Any further advice on this would be appreciated.

The flange at the trans output shaft (4-bolt 'plate' that connects the trans to the driveshaft) is the same part on all Type247 airheads ...
part #9:
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMid/B0000501.png

what advice is needed ?

[philosobrad]

The flange at the trans output shaft (4-bolt 'plate' that connects the trans to the driveshaft) is the same part on all Type247 airheads ...
part #9:
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMid/B0000501.png

what advice is needed ?


I have an R60/6 rolling frame and known good transmission.
I have an R100GS engine in my shop in cood condition.

Is the R100 powerplant a direct fit into the R60/6 frame.....and will the R100 engine directly bolt up to the /6 trans?

[AntonLargiader]

Yes, no.

[rpeckham136133]

Go back to Vanzens' post #6: it sounds like, IF you could find a tranny for the new engine, it might bolt up. But that the new engine will not bolt to the old tranny.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I am just trying to 'learn" this stuff for my own future reference, and that is my interpretation.......:p

[philosobrad]

Go back to Vanzens' post #6: it sounds like, IF you could find a tranny for the new engine, it might bolt up. But that the new engine will not bolt to the old tranny.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I am just trying to 'learn" this stuff for my own future reference, and that is my interpretation.......:p


That's how I interpreted it as well. So the search for a paralever trans begins.