front wheel side-to-side slop and vibration

[gossamerjohn]

Hello all. I've noticed a vibration in my R60/6 at around 50-55mph. It only happens at this speed range. Below that it's fine and above it it's fine. These tires are OLD, they still have lots of tread b/c the bike basically sat for 14 years. But they need to be replaced I think.

Tonight I checked the front wheel with a friend and noted some lateral movement (side to side movement) in the front wheel. I'm guessing I need to replace the wheel bearings. My question is, does the wheel bearing problem make sense that it would be causing a vertical wobble in such a narrow range of speed?

Regarding the bearings:

I've been reading Duane's article and I'm still debating whether I want to tackle this or take it to the BMW shop in town. From previous bikes I've had HORRIBLE service (dangerous actually) from other dealers so I'm dealer leery.

I've replaced steering head bearings, rebuild forks, etc. etc. So I'm fairly mechanical, but the wheel bearings seem a bit more of a challenge.

Any confidence inspiring advice or words of caution?

[James.A]

You need new tires and by all means get the wheel bearings taken care of. Also, check the rear sub-frame for a cracked weld on the lateral gusset that holds up the back edge of the tool tray.

[AnnapolisAirhead]

These tires are OLD, they still have lots of tread b/c the bike basically sat for 14 years. But they need to be replaced I think.

Ya might be on to something there. :brow

Why speculate on something that obviously needs to be replaced. I'd start with taking the wheels off and getting new tires installed. In the meantime, check the subframe as James pointed out, that could be a serious issue.

Put the wheels back on, take a test ride and see if its still there. If it is, address the wheel bearings (or do them anyway, certainly can't hurt). I have had the best luck with this list, local airhead tech events and doing things myself. That way, I have an understanding of it, not just an understanding that my checking account is lower and the hope that someone took the care and time to do it right. If they didn't, you'll be re-doing them yourself anyway to get it done right.

Rely on yourself. :drink

[DennisDarrow]

For me..............If you, don't know how new to Airheads you are but let's assume this is your first, can feel lateral play in the wheel when grasping the tire at 6 and 12. TAKE CARE OF THIS NOW. A seized bearing at any faster than pushing the bike by hand is totally a killer. If you survive with little damage the bike won't.......Serious problems...............

Dennis

[gossamerjohn]

thanks for your input everyone. This my first Airhead, so everything is a little new.

I'm going to pull the wheel today to take care of the bearings. I did some research on the local BMW shop, Engle in Kansas City, Missouri. They have really good reviews so I'm more comfortable taking this to them than doing it myself.

Checked the lateral gusset in the rear subframe and there are no cracks in the weld. I'm going to have them give me pricing on the tires too while I'm there.

Thanks for your help. I'll keep you all posted.

[j-budimlya]

thanks for your input everyone. This my first Airhead, so everything is a little new.

I'm going to pull the wheel today to take care of the bearings. I did some research on the local BMW shop, Engle in Kansas City, Missouri. They have really good reviews so I'm more comfortable taking this to them than doing it myself.

Checked the lateral gusset in the rear subframe and there are no cracks in the weld. I'm going to have them give me pricing on the tires too while I'm there.

Thanks for your help. I'll keep you all posted.

Don't just get a quote...get new tires.....14 year old tires on a bike are just not safe.....first thing you will try is a little highway speed,,,,and bang....you have a blow out....not pretty if you are inexpereinced....just get new tires now....saving $50 bucks is not worth the risk

[gossamerjohn]

Thanks Jim. I got a little scared and mistyped, should have said I'm going to go ahead and get new tires put on and while I'm there get a quote for the bearings.

The good news is it's not as much as I anticipated -- only about 2 hours of labor and $30 for bearings.

Good news: They can mount and balance the tires any time, Bad news: to replace the bearings they're booked for a couple weeks. So I may be doing the front wheel bearings myself. I'm confident to go at least as far as checking to see if the races have spun or not and checking the bearings themselves. It's the whole heating the wheel and removing the races and pre-loading that scares me a little.

[shire2000]

Front wheel bearings are not the simplest thing to replace, but can be done. You are lucky that you can get the pair for $30. For my 1981 R100RT I just paid $100 Canadian for the front bearings, and another $100 to have them installed. I was on the road and had to have them done. Luckily there was a BMW shop close by that had the parts. Last 2 in stock and he tells me he gave me a deal on them as BMW Canada wants $60 each for them. Whoopdedoo! Saved a big $20. If I had the time, I would have taken an old one to a local bearing distributer to have them matched up. Would have costs at least 1/2 the price.

Get the bearings and get them installed as quickly as possible.

Nobody should be riding on tires that are 14 years old. The American vehicle safety people recommend nothing over 5 years old. Be careful about the tires you buy. They all have a date code on them. I have seen "brand new" tires at dealers that have never been on a vehicle but were over 3 years old. Must have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

:ca

[gossamerjohn]

Nobody should be riding on tires that are 14 years old.
:ca

You know what, I thought the exact same thing. My stupidity came when I listened to people who "know more about motorcycles than me" who looked at the tires and said "Those look fine. Lots of tread on 'em. I don't think you need new tires."

:doh *slaps forehead with palm of hand*

My father is an engineer. The one thing he always drilled into my brain is margin of safety and "do it right the first time."

I'm pretty confident about this dealership who' selling and installing the tires. They do a LOT of business and go through a lot of parts stock. Even the older bikes.

[rpeckham136133]

Want to chime in on testing the bearings: your bike front end has the 14mm axle with a sleeve to make it fit the 17mm i.d. of the bearings. It is pretty easy to check for lateral play: loosen both pinch bolts, take off the right side big nut and see how easily the axle pulls through. It should pull reasonably easily with the tollkit round thingy stuck into the axle hole drilled on the left side. Just twist it back and forth to make sure that it can be moved by hand. No need to remove, you are just making sure that the pinch bolts are not holding the axle.

THEN, re-tighten the big nut to the spec'd torque (if you don't use a torque wrench, use the short toolkit wrench and put as much pressure as you can, you cannot damage it with that little wrench). At that point, try to move the wheel back and forth: you should have no movement. Then you can actually ride the bike a bit, bounce the front end, and then tighten the pinch bolts to keep it all secured. (The pinch bolts keep the ends from spreading and moving, keeping the forks aligned.)

The "bearing preload" and all of the techy-talk that we hear so much about is to make sure that the wheel assembly is squeezed to the right by that sleeve, without undue squeezing of the bearings and without being so loose as to wobble. The squeezing (preload) is done by the big nut on the right end of the axle.

See Duane Ausherman's site for information. The bearings themselves could outlast all of us if not damaged and kept reasonably well lubed.

[bobh41]

I enthusiastically recommend Engle's. My own 20-year experience with them is 100% positive. They like BMW's - any vintage, and have the skills to make them go right. I think some of the mechanics were born in the shop. :heart

[gossamerjohn]

I pulled the front wheel off yesterday. You'd be amazed at how the slop goes away when the bolt is torqued to the proper 20 ftlbs. It appears it was at about 10lbs or less. Hand-tight, MAYBE.

It looks like I do need a new thrust spacer as the one on my bike is pretty beat up and worn. I pulled the seal and checked the bearings. They're in very good shape, the races are solidly in the hub. So good news there.

I'll be getting new tires and I'm rebuilding the forks (seals, bumpers, new progressive springs). I'm also going to get new rear shocks at some point.

Does anyone know a source for the green threadlock?

[rpeckham136133]

You'd be amazed at how the slop goes away when the bolt is torqued to the proper 20 ftlbs. It appears it was at about 10lbs or less. Hand-tight, MAYBE.

Does anyone know a source for the green threadlock?

Glad that was all it was. I recommend a nice little greaser for inserting grease into those bearings, made by Ed Korn tools:

WHEEL BEARING GREASER 1970-1984 EXCEPT R65LS
To grease the tapered roller wheel bearings used until 1984 without removing them from the wheel. I was finally talked into making this tool even though I think it important that the bearings be visually inspected occasionally. After 1984 BMW used “sealed” ball bearings $24 plus shipping

I would also like to know source for the green threadlock as well: it is the kind that is put on AFTER the bolts are tightented (post torquing). I found it used on my tranny/driveshaft bolts, and though HMMM... can't hurt. I did not have any particular problem getting them to come apart, so it is not like a blue or red in disassembly.

[gossamerjohn]

Glad that was all it was. I recommend a nice little greaser for inserting grease into those bearings, made by Ed Korn tools:

I would also like to know source for the green threadlock as well: it is the kind that is put on AFTER the bolts are tightented (post torquing). I found it used on my tranny/driveshaft bolts, and though HMMM... can't hurt. I did not have any particular problem getting them to come apart, so it is not like a blue or red in disassembly.

On the greaser. Yes indeed. Cycleworks is located about 15 minutes from my house. So I'll be heading over there tomorrow. (I live less than two hours from Bing too; it may be "fly over country" but the midwest is definitely RIDE-THROUGH country for us).

I'm going to ask them about the green locktite/threadlock while I'm there. I'll let you know what I find out.

[gossamerjohn]

I would also like to know source for the green threadlock as well: it is the kind that is put on AFTER the bolts are tightented (post torquing). I found it used on my tranny/driveshaft bolts, and though HMMM... can't hurt. I did not have any particular problem getting them to come apart, so it is not like a blue or red in disassembly.

Here's one link for the green locktite (Sorry, it's a harley site) http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com/Loctite-Threadlocker-Loctite-290-Thread-Lock-and-Sealant-Green.htm

The stuff is Loctite 290. I'm sure you can find it elsewhere, this was the first I found though.

[88bmwJeff]

Congrats on getting the bike. Glad to hear you're getting new tires. You might want to bring the bearings with you and have the tech's take a look at them if you are at all unsure of their condition. Riding has enough potential dangers that we shouldn't be adding to them by not replacing worn parts.

Although you're mechanically inclined, and have worked on other bikes in the past, I suggest you look into the Airhead group and find some local guru's that can provide some Airhead specific knowledge. I'm amazed how much I've learned over the few years I've been riding thanks to those willing to help.

One last bit of unsolicited advice. From what I've read and heard, the consensus tends to be progressive springs are on the stiff side for these bikes without a fairing. Most tend to prefer BMW heavy springs. That being said this is all hearsay, since I own an '88 R100 RT, and replaced my springs with Progressive's. I just thought you might want to do a little more research before deciding which springs to buy.

FWIW, I frequent two forum sites. This one and Boxerworks.com. I've gotten great advice from both sites.

[gossamerjohn]

Thanks Jeff.

I'm definitely going to have them check the bearings when they put on the new tires.

Regarding fork springs; I've been reading the write ups and comparisons. I'm pretty lucky in that two of my friends both have '76 R60/6s too, one with progressives one with the Heavy Duty. I was partial to the progressives. I'm not a big guy and I'm used to a fairly stiff front end (that KZ was like riding straight rods from the wheel). especially compared to the spongy nature of my bike. I guess I like the stiffer feel as it just helps me feel a little more connected to the road.

I've gotten a lot of great advice here, boxerworks and from the airheads tech articles. I have to say, BMWs are a completely different animal to work on than my old 76 KZ400; BMWs are easier by far but there are details that are more important on these bikes. Which I why I probably love working on this bike so much.

My bike appears to have been very well-maintained prior to my getting it. (Loose bolt aside).


OH, for green loctite, I found it here: http://www.smallparts.com/Loctite-Grade-Threadlock-Preassembled-Bottle/dp/B000FONOLS?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=08K13HZH97CP4WWDM6F2&pf_rd_p=413178501&pf_rd_i=0&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_m=AIUBT5HP6PMAF&pf_rd_t=301

I LOVE those guys at SmallParts.com. They are a shadetreers playpen.

[rpeckham136133]

On the greaser. Yes indeed. Cycleworks is located about 15 minutes from my house. So I'll be heading over there tomorrow. (I live less than two hours from Bing too; it may be "fly over country" but the midwest is definitely RIDE-THROUGH country for us).

I'm going to ask them about the green locktite/threadlock while I'm there. I'll let you know what I find out.

Don't buy out the store!

And thanks for the post on the SmallParts... had not run into them, and I can see where that will be some fun "exploration"

[rpeckham136133]

http://www.smallparts.com/Loctite-Grade-Threadlock-Preassembled-Bottle/dp/B000FONOLS?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=08K13HZH97CP4WWDM6F2&pf_rd_p=413178501&pf_rd_i=0&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_m=AIUBT5HP6PMAF&pf_rd_t=301

I LOVE those guys at SmallParts.com. They are a shadetreers playpen.

Thank you , thank you, thank you....
I have been looking for a YEAR for a 13mm drop-end box wrench (great tool for draining the forks!) and they have one.... couldn't find one anywhere!

[vanzen]

...My bike appears to have been very well-maintained prior to my getting it. (Loose bolt aside).

the loose axle nut would be sufficient motivation for me to check the spec.'s on ALL critical fasteners.
the bike might appear clean ...but:
maybe the PO did not routinely service the bike ?
maybe the PO doesn't own a torque wrench ?

actually, as a new-to-me bike owner, I immediately go through the bike, checking the "major service" items as listed in the BMW protocol, to be (SELF) assured that the bike is safe to ride – as a matter of course.
that "service" begins my scheduled maintenance routine.
it is helpful to keep a 'log' of work performed, parts bought and installed, and etc.