Should my pipes Glow?

[leadfoot]

I just finished my first valve adjustment, and it was very easy, thanks to Jim for his shared information from his site. I did notice when rolling the motor over with the rear tire that there was a metalic clink, and was guessing that the cam chain tensioners get their tension from oil pressure and this was simply the noise from the rockers coming of the ramp on the cam. I think this was just confirmed by a post by Don regarding a noise when the engine is first started after an oil change. Anyway, the bike started OK, and sounds much better now. To get to the point, I did notice that the primary pipes have a glow to them when bringing rpm's up on the stand. I did not have the fan on the engine as it was just for a short time, but it sorta worries me. I do run premium in the bike, and I have noticed that when the engine is backing down while slowing, I can hear a light gurgle from the muffler, with a quite pop or two, although the muffler does a good job of quieting it. It does not pop llike a car backfire. My guess is that it is just from the lean fuel tuning for EPA, and is inherent in the bike. I did have it in for the 600 mile about 1K ago. Does the dealer adjust the fuel ratio through the computer, or is it factory set? In case you are wondering why I adjusted the valves 1K after dealer service....poor job by dealer, valves were rattling badly, and a good reason to get in there and do it myself.

I do not mean to be long winded here, but not having a BMW before, I just want to be clear on what behavior is acceptable and what is not. By the way, I get more enjoyment out of this bike than any I have ever owned in my 35 years of riding.

Thanks in advance.
Jim

[tbryant]

You're right about the "clink", it is normal. As for the pipes glowing, I've never witnessed that, even at night. These RTs are the most amazing bikes on the road for pleasure of riding, in 2 1/2 years I've put 47K on mine without a hiccup.

Terry

[leadfoot]

I just want to clarify what I mean by "glow". At idle the pipes look normal, when riding the pipes look normal, when I run the rpm's up to about 3K the pipes look Ok with a fan on them. When the fan is off the pipes take on a glassy reddish look, but not a bright red. I do not do this for an extended period of time, rather about 45 seconds. The pipes return to normal when I drop it back to idle. I am used to having a bike with shields, and never really noticed if it did the same.

[PGlaves]

I just want to clarify what I mean by "glow". At idle the pipes look normal, when riding the pipes look normal, when I run the rpm's up to about 3K the pipes look Ok with a fan on them. When the fan is off the pipes take on a glassy reddish look, but not a bright red. I do not do this for an extended period of time, rather about 45 seconds. The pipes return to normal when I drop it back to idle. I am used to having a bike with shields, and never really noticed if it did the same.

I would say the description is of normal behavior. The pipes are single wall construction and get very hot, very quickly. With essentially no airflow to carry the heat away from the pipes they get hot-hot. Riding there is air flow. With a fan there is air flow. Hot pipes are one thing. Hot cylinders and heads are another.

A few seconds idling or even revved while standing is OK. More than a few seconds should be avoided at anything above idle RPM.

[leadfoot]

I would say the description is of normal behavior. The pipes are single wall construction and get very hot, very quickly. With essentially no airflow to carry the heat away from the pipes they get hot-hot. Riding there is air flow. With a fan there is air flow. Hot pipes are one thing. Hot cylinders and heads are another.

A few seconds idling or even revved while standing is OK. More than a few seconds should be avoided at anything above idle RPM.

Thanks again Paul, that is kinda what I figured, but nice to hear it from a seasoned BMW guy. Tha valve adjust was a breeze. Being able to wrench on this bike is not only rewarding, it gives me a piece of mind when it comes to road trips. Now if it would just stop raining...........

[PGlaves]

Sort of on topic:

Just today I received an email from an owner who left his bike idling, unattended for longer than he expected - several minutes for sure - many minutes maybe. The result was the engine had quit, there was some melting/burning of fairing pieces near the exhaust, and the oil sight glass was deformed enough to leak.

What other damage (seals, gaskets, warped hard parts, overheated electronics like hall sensors) might have occurred awaits discovery after the sight glass is replaced and the oil changed.

DON'T DO THIS, FOLKS.

Start it up and ride away!

When doing stationary maintenance that requires a running engine - if it will be more than a minute blow a good sized fan on it from the front.

[leadfoot]

Wow, never thought of the damage this situation could cause. I, like a lot of other people (probably) am in the habit of letting the engine get to normal operating temp prior to riding. Guess for now on I will just let it get warm, then go. Good point, thanks for the tip.

[PGlaves]

Wow, never thought of the damage this situation could cause. I, like a lot of other people (probably) am in the habit of letting the engine get to normal operating temp prior to riding. Guess for now on I will just let it get warm, then go. Good point, thanks for the tip.

It is sufficient to allow the engine to run a few seconds - until it will smoothly accept a slow throttle roll - then put in gear and ride away. Prolonged idling helps nothing in a properly tuned engine, and can do significant harm.

[JimVonBaden1]

Sort of on topic:

Just today I received an email from an owner who left his bike idling, unattended for longer than he expected - several minutes for sure - many minutes maybe. The result was the engine had quit, there was some melting/burning of fairing pieces near the exhaust, and the oil sight glass was deformed enough to leak.

What other damage (seals, gaskets, warped hard parts, overheated electronics like hall sensors) might have occurred awaits discovery after the sight glass is replaced and the oil changed.

DON'T DO THIS, FOLKS.

Start it up and ride away!

When doing stationary maintenance that requires a running engine - if it will be more than a minute blow a good sized fan on it from the front.

Paul,

What bike? This was common on the older R1100/1150 RT with the fast idle on, but I have never heard of it on any R1200 at all. They simply idle cooler, and have no fast idle lever.

Jim :brow

[PGlaves]

Paul,

What bike? This was common on the older R1100/1150 RT with the fast idle on, but I have never heard of it on any R1200 at all. They simply idle cooler, and have no fast idle lever.

Jim :brow

It wa an 1100 or 1150 - RT I think - not on fast idle - just idling for several to many minutes.

[JimVonBaden1]

It wa an 1100 or 1150 - RT I think - not on fast idle - just idling for several to many minutes.


OK, that makes sense then. The R1200 should not have this issue.

Thanks,

Jim :brow

[leadfoot]

OK, that makes sense then. The R1200 should not have this issue.

Thanks,

Jim :brow

Jim, are you referring to a fast idle issue, or the heat from the pipes? I fired up my bike again last night, and at idle the pipes began to glow. I do not recall it doing this prior to the dealer 600 mile checkup. Do they have the capability to alter the A/F ratio? The bike seems very lean. I might be over reacting, as I am getting used to the bike, and it is becoming easier to notice the different characteristics that it has. I am not doubting Paul's information, you caught my attention when you stated that the 1200's idle cooler, and I just do not have anyone here to compare to, and the nearest dealer is 2 1/2 hours away. I want to gather all the input I can on this issue.

BTW I use only premium fuel, and the bike has 2K on it now.

[JimVonBaden1]

Jim, are you referring to a fast idle issue, or the heat from the pipes? I fired up my bike again last night, and at idle the pipes began to glow. I do not recall it doing this prior to the dealer 600 mile checkup. Do they have the capability to alter the A/F ratio? The bike seems very lean. I might be over reacting, as I am getting used to the bike, and it is becoming easier to notice the different characteristics that it has. I am not doubting Paul's information, you caught my attention when you stated that the 1200's idle cooler, and I just do not have anyone here to compare to, and the nearest dealer is 2 1/2 hours away. I want to gather all the input I can on this issue.

BTW I use only premium fuel, and the bike has 2K on it now.

I am kind of referring to both.

The R100/1150 has a fast idle lever that, if left on, can cause the bike to run very hot very quickly.

The R1200 series has no lever, and the computer controls the mixture. It is not unbcommon for the pipes to glow a dull red in the dark after a few minutes running in a no airflow situation. However, they should never get hot enough to cause damage to the R1200 RT plastics, nor the other engine components.

I have idled my R1200GS for as long as two hours in nearly dead traffic with the temp guage never going over half way, as have many others I know. The R1200 cooling system works that much better.

All that said, if your pipes are glowing bright orange/red, you definitely have an issue, and the dealer needs to have a look at it. Usually this would be caused by a gross imbalance of the throttle bodies at idle, and you would notice it running very poorly at idle as well.

Hope this helps.

Jim :brow

[GrafikFeat]

Wow, never thought of the damage this situation could cause. I, like a lot of other people (probably) am in the habit of letting the engine get to normal operating temp prior to riding. Guess for now on I will just let it get warm, then go. Good point, thanks for the tip.

Just start and go. Zero Warm up time.
I shut down at long traffic lights/trains/traffic etc.

Suit up, turn the key, ride away. Period.

[leadfoot]

I am kind of referring to both.

The R100/1150 has a fast idle lever that, if left on, can cause the bike to run very hot very quickly.

The R1200 series has no lever, and the computer controls the mixture. It is not unbcommon for the pipes to glow a dull red in the dark after a few minutes running in a no airflow situation. However, they should never get hot enough to cause damage to the R1200 RT plastics, nor the other engine components.

I have idled my R1200GS for as long as two hours in nearly dead traffic with the temp guage never going over half way, as have many others I know. The R1200 cooling system works that much better.

All that said, if your pipes are glowing bright orange/red, you definitely have an issue, and the dealer needs to have a look at it. Usually this would be caused by a gross imbalance of the throttle bodies at idle, and you would notice it running very poorly at idle as well.

Hope this helps.

Jim :brow

Well I am pretty much satisfied that things are Ok now. I guess I am just going to have to get used to the characteristics of the bike. The balance of the TB's must be fine, as it purrs beautifully at idle. I do get a slight exhaust gurgle and muffled pops sometimes when backing down in gear. For insurance I do plan on purchasing the tool and synching the TB's myself at 6K. I am sure that the more I wrench on it, the more comfortable I will get with it.

Thanks to all for the input.

[MPATROVSKY]

As my sig implies, I've gone from an 1150RT to a 1200RT and ride in temps down to 28 to 30 degrees F. I have used the fast idle lever on the 1150 only to start when cold and held the lever in until the idle speed went to fifteen hundred rpm and then closed the lever back to its "off" position. Both bikes are started and ridden off within fifteen seconds of starting which I feel is enough time for the oil to make a trip around the engine. Once I leave the parking spot it's all down hill (down mountain) for half a mile. By the time I hit the highway it's warmed up enough to take off normally with no consideration for engine temps at all.