NASCAR Virgin

[lamble]

Having mastered baseball, I now have VIP tickets to NASCAR's only Pac NW visit.

What do I need to know?

Folks enlighten me! :D

[535is]

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

This is gonna be a great thread ... :lurk

[hlothery]

Wear a dirty John Deere cap, and a tank top with barbeque stains on the front and a large #3 painted on the back. Drink large amounts of Pabst Blue Ribbon. Put a Skoal can in your back pocket, and have some between your cheek and gum at all times. Don't speak. (The latter advice is critical!):nono :D :stick

[lamble]

Who is #3?

Having Skoal between your cheeks at all time...won't that make you walk funny?

We had a m/c team sponsored by Skoal Bandits back in the 80's I think. Skoal was then banned in the UK for being linked with mouth cancers I believe, so perhaps sticking it up your derriere might make more sense.

[BeemerMike]

Who is #3?

Oh my . . . don't dare ask that while actually AT the race! :eek

[lamble]

Is it Daisy Duke's IQ?

Yes we had the Dukes of Hazard shown on UK TV. Never understood why they didn't use the doors on the car though, especially with all those fat folk in the programme.

I tried to find Cleatus in an anatomical journal, but I couldn't!

It was a documentary wasn't it?

Who is #3 then???

[gfspencer]

Who is #3?

Here you go -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Earnhardt :bow :bow :bow

[BeemerMike]

Who is #3?

And, in case you really don't know, it is the late Dale Earnhardt.

[lamble]

And, in case you really don't know, it is the late Dale Earnhardt.

Never heard of him, late or not. I'll read the wiki.

[lamble]

So what's the skill factor/s I should be looking for, so I can appreciate the sport.
I mean I understand there aren't Grand Prix type tracks, but there's more to it, I assume, than going in a circle.

Nuances, art, tactics...what's good and what's...dukes of hazard?

[535is]

Who is #3?
Ever seen a guy wearing an Ayrton Senna shirt? This is the same thing, only redneck style. It's the late Dale Earnhardt's number and is considered sacred by many NASCAR fans. If you can imagine Michael Schumacher getting killed in his last race, you'll understand the situation.
Having Skoal between your cheeks at all time...won't that make you walk funny?

We had a m/c team sponsored by Skoal Bandits back in the 80's I think. Skoal was then banned in the UK for being linked with mouth cancers I believe, so perhaps sticking it up your derriere might make more sense.
Yeah; the cancer risk is there, even if you shove it up yer butt (which brings entirely new meaning to the brand name "Bandit"). You can fake this convincingly if you simply chew black licorice and spit constantly, leaving some dribbling down your chin. If you have all your teeth, it might help to let some of the licorice stick to them ... oh, wait; you're English. Of course you don't have all your teeth. :D

DO NOT under ANY circumstances wear Earth Shoes© or clogs. Boots or sneakers are the only acceptable footwear. More later ...

[535is]

I mean I understand there aren't Grand Prix type tracks, but there's more to it, I assume, than going in a circle.

Yes, there are, and no, there isn't.

[lkchris]

Wear a dirty John Deere cap, and a tank top with barbeque stains on the front and a large #3 painted on the back. Drink large amounts of Pabst Blue Ribbon. Put a Skoal can in your back pocket, and have some between your cheek and gum at all times. Don't speak. (The latter advice is critical!):nono :D :stick

Guess this is a thread where the same thing as racism is just OK.

Facts--as usual--don't support your prejudices.

But, I suppose if you need to put others down to make yourself seem worthy ... .

[lamble]

In Britain we call them Billy Bob teeth, wonder where that comes from?

[lamble]

Guess this is a thread where the same thing as racism is just OK.

Facts--as usual--don't support your prejudices.

But, I suppose if you need to put others down to make yourself seem worthy ... .


Been to Albuquerque...nice there, especially the old town part. Good Triumph dealer too on the outskirts. It's where my wife flew in to meet me, when I was riding across the USA on back roads. I can still remember the joy of clean underwear arriving. Many fond memories.

Only problem is, my perspective colours my opinion of the place. I'm sure there's some of it that's less hospitable than where I was...I was just stereotyping based on my personal experiences...sometimes it's hard not to show a bias. Traits and trends are what we are classed by, be it colour, religion, economic value, age, sexuality, ability to ride or not, brand choice etc...

So that's sorted, back to nascar.
There's a guy called Little racing...anything anyone knows about him...Chad, I've just been texted.

Chad Little will be racing, says the text. Wow, I suppose!

[warredon]

It would really help if you could find a driver or two to cheer for. This would tend to make the race a lot more entertaining and not so boring. If unable to do that, try to find a car with a sponsor's name that means something to you and cheer for that car and driver.

[lamble]

It would really help if you could find a driver or two to cheer for. This would tend to make the race a lot more entertaining and not so boring. If unable to do that, try to find a car with a sponsor's name that means something to you and cheer for that car and driver.

Good tip. Are there any Pac NW drivers, or is the sport dominated by drivers from the traditional Nascar area, South I'm guessing?

What's the history? How come there's this division?
I don't sense that what's developed for a car in nascar makes it's way into production vehicles, or is that just plain wrong?
My opinion is based solely on the car adverts I see, none I can recall harken back to Nascar heritage, or technological advances...oil and gas perhaps, but...?

[wuli959]

take a set of radio headphones so you can listen into the crews talking with the drivers. deaden's the roar and the strategy piece is fun to listen in on.

[ltljohn]

Good tip. Are there any Pac NW drivers, or is the sport dominated by drivers from the traditional Nascar area, South I'm guessing?

What's the history? How come there's this division?
I don't sense that what's developed for a car in nascar makes it's way into production vehicles, or is that just plain wrong?
My opinion is based solely on the car adverts I see, none I can recall harken back to Nascar heritage, or technological advances...oil and gas perhaps, but...?

THe history is long but to make it simple, in the late 1940's the moonshiners in the SE USA modified cars to ba able to run away from the police. They also used to get together and race alot. Someone got the bright idea to organize it and NASCAR was born.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR

[ltljohn]

take a set of radio headphones so you can listen into the crews talking with the drivers. deaden's the roar and the strategy piece is fun to listen in on.

You can rent these at the track as well as a chart of channels to select the driver you want to listen to. Warning if the driver is having car problems this will not be family oriented language.

[hlothery]

Guess this is a thread where the same thing as racism is just OK.

Facts--as usual--don't support your prejudices.

But, I suppose if you need to put others down to make yourself seem worthy ... .

Sheesh!! Lighten up man. I put as many things in there as I could to make it obviously a sterotypical joke. For Pete's sake! Sometimes this site is just plain not fun.:cry

BTW, I grew up in Brevard, NC. I started listening to NASCAR every Sunday afternoon with my Dad in the front seat of our '54 Ford, 'cause that was the only radio we owned that would pick up the Charlotte station that carried the races. I lived for the feats of Fred Lorenzen, Fireball Roberts, Ned Jarrett, and that demon Richard Petty who always beat my beloved Fords. I have been to races at Darlington, Daytona, Bristol, North Wilksboro and Fort Worth. So, seems some of your assumptions about my motives might have been wrong!

[lamble]

BTW, I grew up in Brevard, NC.

I've been to Brevard too, on the same trip that I was in Albuquerque, so you two are almost related, now stop and let it go.

Isn't that the white squirrels place?

In 2006 I took a picture of a ladies dress shop in Brevard. It said New York fashions in the window. I'm fairly sure New York hadn't seen fashions like these since 1960 though. I may be getting this confused with Transylvania though, the town not the country (been to both). Couldn't believe that there was a blood-drive on in Transylvania, (the town) when I arrived.

But hey Brevard!

Thought Richard Petty was in a band?

[lamble]

THe history is long but to make it simple, in the late 1940's the moonshiners in the SE USA modified cars to ba able to run away from the police. They also used to get together and race alot. Someone got the bright idea to organize it and NASCAR was born.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR

So that's why the notherners frown upon it is it, not invented here syndrome, or am I, stuck out here on the NW corner, just not getting the full North/South divide thing?

[Mongo]

All you need to know:D

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[aerialfilm1]

Keep an open mind and allow it to be fun. NASCAR is an event more than just the race. If you go there just for the race you may be let down some. Try to get into the culture and all it's stereotypes. Redneck fun is still fun. Try to appreciate the event first, then the sport. Wear something with a Union Jack. You'll be like an exotic bird. If you get a chance go early and stroll through the camping and RV areas. That's where you get the real sense of NASCAR. Otherwise it's just a bunch of cars going fast.

So before the F1, Superbike, WRC , Obscure Sports Quarterly ,"everything is cooler when it's from another country" crowd chimes in further.
Some things you need to know about NASCAR fans before you pigeon-hole them. Most of them are the same people who:
Drive the trucks that carry that snooty craft beer we like
Fix our driveways
Cut our lawns
Repair our cars
Pump our septic systems
Put out forest fires
Cut us out of the wreckage
Rivet the wings on our airplanes
Teach our children
Cannot be visibly distinguished from the F1, Superbike, WRC , Obscure Sports Quarterly ,"everything is cooler when it's from another country" crowd
Climb power lines in severe weather to keep our lights and ac running
or Chase bad guys on graveyard shift while we sleep snugly in our Ikea beds.

So really they're just a bunch of dumb hillbillies. Who needs them eh?:D

[lamble]

As a vip of Toyota, I think it's access all areas and hospitality thrown in, so I'm not sure how much mixing with the locals there will be, we may find ourselves the other side of the cordoned area. I'm guessing we won't have hardcore Nascar, perhaps Nascar-lite in a bowed box. Still it's up to us to "get real and down with the folks. That's always the best bit.

[lamble]

I know what else I need to know...is there anything like moto gp involved in the outcome...you know, if you aren't on XX brand tyres, you aren't going to win unless it rains, no matter hows good you are? If you have a XYZ engine, you may as well walk, that sort of pre determined outcome based on sponsorship deals which sort of means you can admire the gallant but ultimately futile efforts of the under dog?

On dressing like a Brit, that's my fav ploy. That way I can ask stupid questions without causing offense and I can ask offensive questions and just look stupid.
That's got me out of many jams I can tell you, especially at the baseball game.

[hlothery]

I've been to Brevard too, on the same trip that I was in Albuquerque, so you two are almost related, now stop and let it go.

Isn't that the white squirrels place?

In 2006 I took a picture of a ladies dress shop in Brevard. It said New York fashions in the window. I'm fairly sure New York hadn't seen fashions like these since 1960 though. I may be getting this confused with Transylvania though, the town not the country (been to both). Couldn't believe that there was a blood-drive on in Transylvania, (the town) when I arrived.

But hey Brevard!

Thought Richard Petty was in a band?

It is the land of the white squirrel, used to have one who lived in the tree in my back yard. It is also in Transylvania County.......the blood drive is freaky, though. It's a great place to visit......and definitely NASCAR country. Believe me, I know Rednecks! NASCAR was a bit different then.....and I hadn't discovered F1 or ALMS. But there is definitely something to be said for 30 or 40 big American (and Japanese) V8s at 200 MPH, inches apart, and only a few yards from you!! It definitely shakes the Earth. Hope you have a great time!

[lancew]

There are a lot of loud things.

There are a lot of fast things.

There are a lot of people who are, uh, fun to watch.

There is a lot of beer.

So it's basically like a motorcycle rally, but without the 3-hour discussions over which type of synthetic oil is best.

Enjoy!

ps- don't ask for tea

[MLS2GO]

I know the Sprint Cup (Major League) Nationwide (AAA) don't race up there. I don't think the trucks (AA) do either. One of the problems is the further you go down in the Series the smaller the fields and the less competitve the races are typically, certainly not always. NASCAR has roughly the same fan demographic as NFL football.
Most NASCAR fans are not crazy about Toyota being in the Series and doubly unhappy that a terrific yet brash and very talented and some would say ego manical young driver named Kyle Busch leading the Series and the favorite to win the Chase (the season ending 10 race playoff) is leading. He's hard to like, yet talented.
Races are usually won or lost on the setup for the track, including suspension settings, tire pressures, track bar adjustments and various other tweaks. Every race track is different, and weather conditions change these factors constantly during the race. Don't be fooled by these cars they are very sophisticated. Teh engines are limited to 350 cubic inches and must be push rod engines. This is simply to limit horsepower. No blowers, or fancy fuel.
It cost as much as $25,000,000 to fund a top team for a year. Hard to compete for less than $15,000,000.
If it one of the minor series, it's still fun just not the spectacle a full blown NASCAR show is.
Enjoy.

[lamble]

There was a race two weeks ago, that my Aussie mate went to, could have been Indianapolis ot Dayton (I've heard of them). He got to have a ride round the track in one afterwards and says he squeeled!

[lamble]

Pace Car...isn't that just a chance for everyone to catch up?

Doesn't seem fair.

[BeemerMike]

Pace Car...isn't that just a chance for everyone to catch up?

Yes, it is. In F1 they call it the "Safety Car". ;)

[hlothery]

Pace Car...isn't that just a chance for everyone to catch up?

Doesn't seem fair.

You think that's bad.....have someone explain the "Lucky Dog" rule to you, where someone a lap behind gets to go forward and get his lap back when the Pace Car comes out. In NASCAR, it's about more than just going fast. The sanctioning body does all they can to make the racing close. From restrictor plates on Superspeedways, to now restricting the horsepower of Toyota engines. Of course, those of us who like Ford have always thought Chevy had an inside man at NASCAR.........I'm sure the Chevy guys feel the same way. I don't agree with all of it, but it is quite a show.

[PAGoldsby]

You think that's bad.....have someone explain the "Lucky Dog" rule to you, <snip>F1 has its own version of the Lucky Dog Rule. Lapped traffic is waved past the Safety Car so that the leaders are in the front of the pack. In F1, it benefits the leaders far more than the lapped traffic.

[lamble]

Pit stops...allowed, mandatory, or a last option if all else fails?

[PAGoldsby]

More-or-less mandatory because of the limited capacity of the fuel tanks and relatively long distances of the races. Unlike F1, roundy-round pit stops are pretty slow. There is a limit of number of mechanics "over the wall", and each tire is held on with 5 lug nuts. The jack is a hydraulic floor jack, similar in design (but lighter/stronger for racing use) to what you would use in your garage for a car.

One very interesting aspect to roundy-round racing is the points system. It appears that a driver earns points for just about everything. I've never attempted to understand it, frankly. I have the most remote interest in NASCAR possible. The cars are not interesting to me, and it looks more like an exhibition than a competition.

[lamble]

One thing I don't like about F1 is when a race is won in the pits. It should be a race about cars on the track and driver skills allied to equipment, not the fastest pump attendant and tyre changer, but I do like chicanes and changes of direction.

[hlothery]

One thing I don't like about F1 is when a race is won in the pits. It should be a race about cars on the track and driver skills allied to equipment, not the fastest pump attendant and tyre changer, but I do like chicanes and changes of direction.

Ah, but here I disagree. I enjoy, in all forms of racing, strategy which impacts the race. In F1, that is (IMHO) better employed, because a car can start light to gain position on the grid, or heavy to go with less stops than his competitors. In ALMS, Audi was rewarded by not only producing a TDI diesel which was faster, but more fuel efficient. In NASCAR, the strategy plays out about when to stop....on a green flag or hope for a caution. The length of the stop is impacted by the decision on tire changes, etc. I like all that stuff. But I like speed the most. NASCAR is great, but to me, nothing compares to a Ferrari/BMW/Mercedes engine at 14,000 RPM. :bow

[BeemerMike]

NASCAR is great, but to me, nothing compares to a Ferrari/BMW/Mercedes engine at 14,000 RPM.

I think the current F1 limit is 19,200 rpm. :eek

[535is]

One thing I don't like about F1 is when a race is won in the pits. It should be a race about cars on the track and driver skills allied to equipment, not the fastest pump attendant and tyre changer,
Well, any racing that is not sprint racing (where the car/motorcycle can run the entire race without having to stop) includes the possibility that good or bad pitstop strategy can win or lose the race.

NASCAR tends not to have the sophisticated fueling strategies of F1. F1 cars are much more affected by the weight of the fuel they carry so, although most of them can run an entire race using less than two full fuel loads (only one stop), they rarely do. Instead, they will start with a lighter load (to be faster) and hope their sequence of stops works better than others. NASCAR stock cars will start full of fuel. Their best 'strategy' is to get another full load under a yellow flag, if at all possible. Then repeat as necessary. You will notice all of them pitting within a lap or three to refill, while the stops may vary widely in F1. Only near the very end of a NASCAR race will you see the odd 'splash & go' where less than a full load is added.
but I do like chicanes and changes of direction.
Then you should have gone to the Sears Point or Watkins Glen races ...

http://www.stagefronttickets.com/nascar/SearsPointRaceway.gif

http://www.stagefronttickets.com/nascar/PriceGuides/watkins.bmp

[Oldhway]

I just read this thread and cannot believe the breadth and depth of the answers. Unless you are at a road course (which are the minority)there are only 2 things you need to know about Nascar..

1: Go fast
2: Turn left

Repeat for the desired distance.

[2beers]

Some of us do enjoy a NASCAR Race. Yeah, the past is a bit cloudy. Many innovations have come from NASCAR and gone into todays cars. Used to be the crew chiefs really creative with the rules and some interesting innovations. They can adjust where the weight is in the car, play with the shocks and spring rates. They also have a lot of adjutability in the front end geometry. Air is Air no matter what brand you run. So aerodynamics from racing has played a roll in todays cars. Look at the new kids seats coming out. Strange, they are looking more and more like a Butler built racing seat every day. Go and have a good time, watch some racing, the food is usually good. Especially if you are in a hospitality tent. And people watch.

There is (was) an old saying that "what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday"

For a little different type of racing check out the World of Outlaws Sprint Car Series. A 1100 lbs car with a wing and an engine putting out 800-900 HP on dirt is cool!!! They travel the country and will be at a track close to you. Check out the Speed channel, they show WoO races and cover the highlights.

http://www.worldofoutlaws.com/sprint/ (www.worldofoutlaws.com/sprint/)

Go Matt!!

[lamble]

With the VIP aspect, I'm sure the enjoyment aspect will be without question.

What I'd like is the best way to appreciate any "art" "skill" "techniques" that will help me maximise my enjoyment level from the sport and not just the food and drink.

So thanks to one and all so far.

I am looking forward to this.

[BeemerMike]

What I'd like is the best way to appreciate any "art" "skill" "techniques" that will help me maximise my enjoyment level from the sport and not just the food and drink.

I think one thing you will notice that is different from other racing is how close multiple cars run together at high speed. Really close. Drafting. Cars pairing (or tripling) up to gain an aerodynamic advantage. I'm not really a NASCAR fan (although I watch it occasionally), but I know that while it appears to be simple, it really isn't.

"He didn't hit you. He just rubbed you. And rubbing is racing." Robert Duvall in "Days Of Thunder". :D

[hlothery]

I think one thing you will notice that is different from other racing is how close multiple cars run together at high speed. Really close. Drafting. Cars pairing (or tripling) up to gain an aerodynamic advantage. I'm not really a NASCAR fan (although I watch it occasionally), but I know that while it appears to be simple, it really isn't.

"He didn't hit you. He just rubbed you. And rubbing is racing." Robert Duvall in "Days Of Thunder". :D

The so-called "Bump drafting" where the car in the rear actually nudges (or something more than nudges) the car in front forward, thus increasing the lap speed for both......if there is no crash. Amazing to watch at 200 MPH, even in an American (or Japanese) sedan.

[lamble]

I think one thing you will notice that is different from other racing is how close multiple cars run together at high speed. Really close. Drafting. Cars pairing (or tripling) up to gain an aerodynamic advantage. I'm not really a NASCAR fan (although I watch it occasionally), but I know that while it appears to be simple, it really isn't.

"He didn't hit you. He just rubbed you. And rubbing is racing." Robert Duvall in "Days Of Thunder". :D

Without wishing to cause offense, see an earlier comment, American cars aren't really regarded as having refined handling, brute force yes, drag racing straight lines most certainly, but close up, contact handling and they are out of their element. So, is this where the driver skill comes into play?
Or are these cars tweaked so that despite their less than stilleto lines, they do handle? Someone mentioned moving weight around in the car, is that a physical addition of handicapping weight, as in types of horse racing and touring car races in Europe, or just a fat cousin on the back seat?

[hlothery]

I just read this thread and cannot believe the breadth and depth of the answers. Unless you are at a road course (which are the minority)there are only 2 things you need to know about Nascar..

1: Go fast
2: Turn left

Repeat for the desired distance.

You better take cover......there may be rounds on the way!:stick :D These NASCAR folk don't take kindly to such words. :)

[hlothery]

Without wishing to cause offense, see an earlier comment, American cars aren't really regarded as having refined handling, brute force yes, drag racing straight lines most certainly, but close up, contact handling and they are out of their element. So, is this where the driver skill comes into play?
Or are these cars tweaked so that despite their less than stilleto lines, they do handle? Someone mentioned moving weight around in the car, is that a physical addition of handicapping weight, as in types of horse racing and touring car races in Europe, or just a fat cousin on the back seat?

As is done in other types of racing, they try to balance weight on each wheel. In NASCAR, they may even try to "unload" the outside tires. The weight and tire pressure of the right front tire is, obviously critical. The suspensions, while not as sophisticated as F1 or ALMS, are actually quite sophisticated and adjustable. The bodies must meet an identical template, so no one gains an aerodynamic advantage. They do not have the downforce mechanisms of F1 or ALMS cars. If they are not going straight, they become quite unstable very fast. It is quite amazing at the speeds they go and the closeness they race. F1 cars get unstable if they follow too closely....Nascar get a train effect when they do.....they get faster. Interestingly, the lead car can be made unstable in corners by the following car, if it gets too close. To each his/her own.....I just like racing!

[lamble]

I don't work on Fridays, it's my trip planning day, so I was dowenloading Venezuela Visa documents and watching Nascar Camping-which is what we are going to see.

I'll withhold judgement, as live and TV are different. Now however, there's a pre race Nascar, Indianapolis show on. Boy oh boy are the commentators struggling. Nothing is happening, yet they are so enthusiastic about that nothing. Is there just too much air time to fill, or do sponsors demand coverage, even when there's sod all going on?
It makes the Foreign Office Access Procedures and Documentation requirements seem dynamic.

Wooo Hoooo, go , section 3, sub section 4 line 12, yellow fever inoculation requirements!

[535is]

The bodies must meet an identical template, so no one gains an aerodynamic advantage.

To elaborate on this and on an earlier reference to European touring car racing, in spite of what the name implies, these are not, nor have they been for a very long time, anything anywhere near, a stock car. I believe that, currently, none of them use any factory original part on the car. Well, maybe a hood ornament, if it's flat and aerodynamic. These are pure silhouette race cars (a race car with a body on it that looks vaguely like an actual street car). Chassis are full racing tube chassis. Suspensions bear absolutely no resemblance to street suspensions and drivetrains are likewise totally racing parts. The last time a front line NASCAR 'stock car' was really arguably stock was around 1966 ... :bluduh

That said, on a typical NASCAR oval, the driving skill is very hard to discern. These cars really are at their handling limits, but because of the nature of the track, you rarely can see it. You might see an oversteer slide recovery if the car doesn't rotate very far, but more often, you'll simply see the crash, rear quarter or rear end into the wall. It is even more difficult to see understeer sliding, but you will see those as front quarter or sideswipe crashes against the walls on the exit of each turn. They are not easy cars to drive competitively, in spite of the appearance of simplicity to it.

[BeemerMike]

They are not easy cars to drive competitively, in spite of the appearance of simplicity to it.

:thumb As I said earlier, it looks simple, but it isn't.

[lamble]

Lost my NASCAR cherry.

It started at 5pm and didn't finish until midnight.
I can see what folks get from this sport, the pressure waves in your ears, in our case, the close proximity to the track, the speed.

What I couldn't "get" was the length of the races and how they were structured. 150 laps with a 20 minute pit stop after 75 laps. That's just two races!

The announcers apologised for the amount of stops and starts due to the excessive number of crashes, which wasn't normal, but I called that spectacle, although Health and Safety Regulators seem to have taken charge and any bump or scratch was deemed reason to bring out the safety car and turn the race into a parade.

There's something added to the mix when the floodlights come on and the night closes in. Somehow the night air carries the noise further and senses are raised. That was special.

But too many laps, too little tolerance by officials as to what warranted a safety car.

We saw plenty of overtaking, crashes and of course enjoyed Toyota hospitality. The only problem with being VIP'd was I am unable to add comical descriptions of the crowd, but from afar I can't say I saw any demin overalls, john deere hats or shirts, or daisy duke shorts...and I did look for the latter.
The car park was very "truck" and it's the first sport event I've attended where caterpillar had a display of earth moving and agricultural machinery.

But glad I saw it and glad it was free. I don't know that I need to see it again though.

[lamble]

Would Jim Clark or Graham Hill race NASCAR ?

They were true racers, as are so many, and do you know, I think they would have and they'd have enjoyed it. Of course Graham Hill would have had a few glasses of brandy before he went out and made it look like he'd been doing it all his life.
Sterling Moss, another gentleman racer, just loved the competition.
The modern stars...don't know if $300 prizes are enough, or if their sponsors and legal team would let them.

Shame really, somehwere along the line that inspired amateur with boundless enthusiasm was snared by the corporations and constrained. Having said that, the modern racers do tend to stay alive longer.

[lamble]

http://lamble.smugmug.com/photos/339850090_6nUJ7-M.jpg

http://lamble.smugmug.com/photos/339850138_p535o-S.jpg

http://lamble.smugmug.com/photos/339850061_SDGE7-M.jpg

http://lamble.smugmug.com/photos/339850071_wS7M9-M.jpg

Just a few pics. Hard to get a focus through the fencing though.

Why put headlight stickers on the cars????

[HexST]

Some of the no talents that have competed in Nascar
Bobby Unser
Al Unser
Al Unser Jr.
Scott Sharp
Boris Said
Dan Gurney
A J Foyt
Peter Gregg
Hurley Haywood
Mario Andretti
Dario Franchitti
Jaques Villeneuve
Juan Pablo Montoya
probably more I don't know

[bubbagazoo]

The headlight stickers are to make the cars sorta look like the cars driven on the streets. They don't put real headlights in the cars because broken glass on the track is not good for the tires. The racing surface of the tires is not as thick as it looks and the tires are easily flattened by running over sharp things.

The NASCAR Camping World Series (West and East) and the NASCAR Canadian Tire Series are the equivalent of "A" ball when compared to Major League Baseball. Some of the really young guys might make it to the bigs but most of the drivers and crew guys will probably stay where they are for their entire racing careers.

We had the NASCAR Canadian Tire Series in Edmonton this weekend as a companion event to the IRL Rexall Edmonton Indy. Former CHAMP Car driver Alex Tagliani won.

To add some trivia to Knick's list, Mario Andretti is the only person to win an F1 race, the Indy 500 AND the Daytona 500. Once upon a time, drivers were not so specialized as to only run one kind of car. Unfortunately, that cannot be said for most of today's drivers.

[lamble]

The headlight stickers are to make the cars sorta look like the cars driven on the streets. They don't put real headlights in the cars because broken glass on the track is not good for the tires. .

I knew that, but wondered who they thought they were kidding.

[JohnF]

Am glad someone finally pointed out that what you saw was not NASCAR. It was regional racing [I]sanctioned[I] by NASCAR.

To add to the list of Open Wheel Drivers who have raced (or still racing) in NASCAR.
Tony Stewart
John Andretti
Robby Gordon
Patrick Carpentier
Sam Hornish, Jr
Dario Franchetti
Jaques Villeneuve
Pancho Carter
Gordon Johncock
Mark Donohue
Jim Hurtubise
Swede Savage

Not an all inclusive list, but drivers whose career started or was primarily in open wheel racing.

I am a NASCAR fan (other than today's debacle at Indy), and am not a Red Neck. It is an enjoyable form of entertainment for me. If you ever get the chance to watch a race on a NASCAR track...plan on it being a whole day's event, the race is just part of it. Plan on arriving for the race about 6 hours early, and take 3 hours to get out of the parking lot (all part of it!!).

There is skill...next time you are cruising down the interstate in your cage and come to a construction zone...look in your rearview mirror to see how close your right side of the car is to the concrete barrier. I'll wager it is not that close. Now put it about 1" away and jack your speed up to 160 MPH (or more). Then put a few other cars around youl and a few of those "just turn left" turns in for more fun. IMHO, that requires a little bit of skill.

It is like any other form of entertainment...you don't have to like it. I would never go to a piano recital/concert...but I am sure there are members of the board who would find enjoyment in that activity.

JEF
Cincinnati, OH

[hlothery]

Some of the no talents that have competed in Nascar
Bobby Unser
Al Unser
Al Unser Jr.
Scott Sharp
Boris Said
Dan Gurney
A J Foyt
Peter Gregg
Hurley Haywood
Mario Andretti
Dario Franchitti
Jaques Villeneuve
Juan Pablo Montoya
probably more I don't know

A shorter list, is how many of these famed drivers have WON in NASCAR. :D

[PAGoldsby]

A shorter list, is how many of these famed drivers have WON in NASCAR. :DA shorter-still list is how many NASCAR drivers have WON outside of roundy-round racing.

Mark Martin did very well for a while as a semi-regular in IMSA GTO and SCCA Trans-Am racing, as did Awesome Bill from Dawsonville. Dale Earnhart (Sr and Jr) have had success at the Daytona 24 Hours.

AJ Foyt, on the other hand, won in practically every kind of racing he ever competed in.

[lamble]

As it stands, I'll be telling folk I've seen NASCAR live. That there weren't the Billie-Bob crowd I'd expected and that there are certainly elements of skill on display. There's mechanical and buttock attrition with the length of the races, and that if you go with the right mind set, there's fun to be had.

I add that last bit about mind set, as a fellow freeloader complained throughout that it wasn't like cycle racing and how she would and did leave early.
Whereas I knew it wasn't like cycle racing, didn't expect it to be like cycle racing, could see it wasn't cycle racing, so just experienced it for what it was. I didn't like her!

[flgoff]

Lamble . . . please tell your lady friend that there is a reason it's called nasCAR, and not nasCYCLE . . . and you might mention that I don't care for her either.

Floyd

[lamble]

Lamble . . . please tell your lady friend that there is a reason it's called nasCAR, and not nasCYCLE . . . and you might mention that I don't care for her either.

Floyd

Don't you brand that sad biffer as a friend of mine, my good man. She just happened to have a Toyota which qualified her for a ticket.
Come to think of it, I don't have a Toyota, so how did I get a freebie?

Must be charm and good looks!

[lamble]

Just read the Indianapolis NASCAR report...it's what we officionados do!

Sounds like there was a tyre changing contest taking place and a race nearly broke out. 7 laps the longest uninterupted stretch. That's pointless.

Camping Nascar is where it's at, sometimes they managed nearly 20 laps before they stopped.

[bubbagazoo]

Just read the Indianapolis NASCAR report...it's what we officionados do!

Sounds like there was a tyre changing contest taking place and a race nearly broke out. 7 laps the longest uninterupted stretch. That's pointless.

Camping Nascar is where it's at, sometimes they managed nearly 20 laps before they stopped.

Well, the tire changing contest was because Goodyear thought they knew more than the drivers who did the last tire test at Indy and brought a tire that wore quickly and turned to dust rather than collecting in the grooves on the track.

NASCAR did what they did to keep the drivers safe. As it was they had some pretty cool tire explosions (Kenseth's was best).

The debacle at Indianapolis is related entirely to that track and those tires. There will be a much better show at Pocono next weekend.

[PAGoldsby]

A tire manufacturer brought the wrong tire to Indy for the race? Hmm... Sounds familiar!

[lamble]

The debacle at Indianapolis is related entirely to that track and those tires. There will be a much better show at Pocono next weekend.

Because I know these things now, let me add a little info. Due to the reduction in down force that this year's cars have over last year's and the redistribution of weight higher in the car, the amount of rubber deposited on the track was less than expected.

Just ask!

[hlothery]

A tire manufacturer brought the wrong tire to Indy for the race? Hmm... Sounds familiar!

Yes it does......wonder which sanctioning body could be said to have handled the situation with less imagination. Wonder if, now, Goodyear will be criticized and boycotted, as was called for by distraught F1 fans when Michelin was at fault. But, most of all, I wonder just what is wrong with the surface at Indy, and how manufacturers who obviously should have known about it could get it so wrong in the first place.

[lamble]

Yes it does......wonder which sanctioning body could be said to have handled the situation with less imagination. Wonder if, now, Goodyear will be criticized and boycotted, as was called for by distraught F1 fans when Michelin was at fault. But, most of all, I wonder just what is wrong with the surface at Indy, and how manufacturers who obviously should have known about it could get it so wrong in the first place.

Ask the expert:

It appears that the surface is what is called "diamond cut". This was adopted as a method of increasing grip and traction. Last year the additional ground force that the cars had, meant that initially tyres laid down rubber quickly and so the abrasiveness was diminished within a few laps of qualifying.

This year's reduced down force of the Car of Tomorrow design, and the dispersal of weight which raised the cars centre of gravity effectively removed the ability of the cars to lay down the rubber required. So despite having the same tyre compound as last year, the changed car dynamics resulted in the need to replace tyres so regularly.

Can't wait until the American Football season starts and I can be a virgin again. Still not seen the Sea Hawks play, although I did catch a UW game and they were shocking.

One day I'll tell you about the American Football team I owned in the UK.

[PAGoldsby]

Yes it does......wonder which sanctioning body could be said to have handled the situation with less imagination. Wonder if, now, Goodyear will be criticized and boycotted, as was called for by distraught F1 fans when Michelin was at fault. But, most of all, I wonder just what is wrong with the surface at Indy, and how manufacturers who obviously should have known about it could get it so wrong in the first place.No doubt NASCAR made sure that the fans got to see what they paid to see, or a reasonable facsimile thereof. Of course, NASCAR is a single-tire-manufacturer series.

There was no way for FIA to come out a winner at Indy '06. One tire manufacturer brought a tire that worked on the track, the other didn't. Michelin themselves were the ones who decided that their tires were unsafe for racing. The Michelin-shod teams had no choice but to not race. The Bridgestone-shod teams made the right call to race. They should not have been penalized in any way for the lack of preparation by the competition.

I think that Indy is a particularly difficult track to design tire compounds for because of the high speeds in relatively low-banked corners. The cars need a lot more mechanical lateral grip since they're not getting near as much help sticking the cars to the track as they area at, say, Daytona or Talledega. Also, the track surface itself is very hard, no doubt due in part to the hard aggregate in the pavement design. Furthermore, the track at Indy seems to change a lot depending on temperature and sun. I used to hang around with a guy who did some speedway kart racing at Indy. He said that a tire and set-up that worked at 9:00 in the morning would be terrible at noon.

Goodyear missed the compound design at Indy, but not nearly as badly as Michelin did. Goodyear's tires were not great, but they weren't apparently patently dangerous, either. Michelin's position in '06 was that the tires would fail under racing loads, not might.

[PAGoldsby]

Can't wait until the American Football season starts and I can be a virgin again. Still not seen the Sea Hawks play, although I did catch a UW game and they were shocking.UW has an excellent football program!

[lamble]

UW has an excellent football program!

UW, University of Washington?

They were awful last year and the year before. It seems that as long as they beat the Cougars, the Huskies are happy. But they didn't do that last year if I recall.

The programme may be excellent. The on field execution...that's different. Still there's always the next season.

Go Dawgs.

[The_Veg]

For a little different type of racing check out the World of Outlaws Sprint Car Series. A 1100 lbs car with a wing and an engine putting out 800-900 HP on dirt is cool!!! They travel the country and will be at a track close to you. Check out the Speed channel, they show WoO races and cover the highlights.

We got an earfulla them at Gillette!

[The_Veg]

I wish I could remember who the standup-comic was who hailed from NYC and talked about visiting some southern friends who took him to a NASCAR race. His observation was that the thing to do was to to drink as much as possible, and then when your favourite driver passes by you stand up and go "WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!"

[lamble]

I wish I could remember who the standup-comic was who hailed from NYC and talked about visiting some southern friends who took him to a NASCAR race. His observation was that the thing to do was to to drink as much as possible, and then when your favourite driver passes by you stand up and go "WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!"

There was a driver from our town and I tried the whooooooo thing. He came in 9th and I whooooo hoooo'd on my own. In a 150 lap race, I stopped after the first 5.

[Roadhawk]

I am not a big NASCAR guy but I can't believe the amount of negative posts. Lighten up guys and try not to be so judgmental. Geeez! Forget the negative comments and just enjoy yourself.

One of the tips that a friend of mine got during the Indy 500 is to get a scanner and headset. They publish the channels that the teams will be using and you can tune into the conversation between the crew and your favorite driver. It really enhances the experience and shows you it is more than just running around in circles.

I think attending a NASCAR race is one of the things every man should do at least once in life. Enjoy the sites, sounds, and smells. Motor racing is a total sensory experience. Oh, and crack a cold one for me.:drink

[The_Veg]

I think attending a NASCAR race is one of the things every man should do at least once in life. Enjoy the sites, sounds, and smells. Motor racing is a total sensory experience. Oh, and crack a cold one for me.:drink

For me, nothing will beat when I went to the German Grand Prix in 1988. I had no idea what a ticket would cost or what to expect when I got there, I just fired up my beat-up Mini and pointed it toward HockenheimRing.
The adventure of it was GREAT! I could barely afford the ticket, and even then I was the section out on the Östkurve that just a sandy hillside instead of seats, and it rained for a bit, and I've still got a great picture of some English race fans with a big Union Jack wrapped around them onto which are sewn letters spelling MANSELL GIVES PIQUET THE HUMP, I got to see Alain Prost spin out in the dirt, etc....It was a really great day that I'll never forget.

[Rpbump]

Watched my first NASCAR race in the eary 70's at Dover, DE. Really got hooked when I moved to FL and saw my first super speedway race at Daytona. When 43 cars steam by your seats in turn one the sound is unbelievable. Yes they turn left most of the time but the skill required to control a 3500lb car at 190mph+ is something to be admired. That said, the "race" last week at Indianapolis was an insult to paying customers. NASCAR should have learned from the F1 disaster at Indy a few years ago but completely dropped the ball along with Goodyear for this track. Watched practice for the Daytona 200 MC race during bike week, the sounds from the different makes was as impressive as the skill of the riders. Ride Safe :D

[hlothery]

For me, nothing will beat when I went to the German Grand Prix in 1988. I had no idea what a ticket would cost or what to expect when I got there, I just fired up my beat-up Mini and pointed it toward HockenheimRing.
The adventure of it was GREAT! I could barely afford the ticket, and even then I was the section out on the Östkurve that just a sandy hillside instead of seats, and it rained for a bit, and I've still got a great picture of some English race fans with a big Union Jack wrapped around them onto which are sewn letters spelling MANSELL GIVES PIQUET THE HUMP, I got to see Alain Prost spin out in the dirt, etc....It was a really great day that I'll never forget.

As I have said, I grew up on NASCAR, and I don't dislike it. I am moved as much as anyone by 30 large machines, inches apart, flying by at 170 MPH. However, what really turns me on is watching F1 or sports cars which are evolving prototypes with substantially superior technology, ground effects and wings for down force, engines revving to 14,000 RPM. The Daytona race I now attend is the Rolex 24, where they start on Saturday afternoon and finish on Sunday afternoon. One must see a fire-belching turbo, with brake discs glowing red in the night, running all night and day to believe it is possible. More amazing than how fast they go, is how fast they stop and the G-forces generated when they turn. However........it's all good!:buds

[lamble]

I once drove around Siverstone Race track Brit GP in Stig Blomqvists Monte Carlo Rally Saab, that was fun.

And I took a Volvo 850 Touring Car (yes they had an estate car in touring cars for a season or two in Europe) around Donnington, think Brit Moto GP. That was just plain weired.

Not done a bike track day though.

I saw stock cars at a track in Hednesford in England quite often. These weren't performance enhanced though. Apart from a roll cage they were usually scrap cars that could just about manage a lap of the oval. What didn't make it, usually ended in the figure of eight or destruction derby as the finale.