Head count for 08

[airhead6]

Missed it this year but how many people made it? What was the final head count?:deal

[PGlaves]

5,103

[GSCookeMnster]

If I remember correctly, this has to be the least attended national rally in about 5 years. Vermont was over 9,000, Wisconsin was around 8,000. I can't remember seeing a head-count this low in some time.

Isn't there a break-even attendance required for a national?

Perhaps this rally proves that holding it so far from population centers, no matter how nice the area, will not draw attendees. Something to add to the rally site selection criteria?

Brian

[k75karol]

If I remember correctly, this has to be the least attended national rally in about 5 years. Vermont was over 9,000, Wisconsin was around 8,000. I can't remember seeing a head-count this low in some time.

Isn't there a break-even attendance required for a national?

Perhaps this rally proves that holding it so far from population centers, no matter how nice the area, will not draw attendees. Something to add to the rally site selection criteria?


You're correct. Anything in the eastern area of the US has much larger attendance due to the number of riders/members and population in general. The Western rallies are always lower in attendance. Spokane, Durango, and Redmond had attendance of 5900-6400 (not sure of exact attendance..sorry)

We knew attendance would be lower, but are o.k. with the numbers considering the current gas prices and expenses in general.

That's why we have "zones" for our rally site selection consideration. If we were always shooting for high attendance, then we'd have all rallies east of the Mississippi. Not quite fair to our membership base.

Attendance needs for break-even/profit will always vary depending on site costs, entertainment costs, and all other expenses. If the attendance is always 9,000, the Rally Site Selection team would have to change many requirements, and our potential sites would definitely be limited.

Thanks for the input!

[osbornk]

Perhaps this rally proves that holding it so far from population centers, no matter how nice the area, will not draw attendees. Something to add to the rally site selection criteria? Brian

I think there was a lot more to the low attendance in addition to the distance from population centers. I think the shortage of affordable lodging had a large impact on the attendance. Also, the lack of trees, grass and normal summertime temperatures also impacted the turnout.

When you consider the long distances involved, the cost of fuel along with the expensive lodging, the price of attending the rally was over the budget for many working folks who would also have to miss several days of work to attend. The cost in both money and time kept many people away.

[SheRidesABeemer]

2007 West Best, WI 7875
2006 Burlington, VT 9230
2005 Lima, OH 8048
2004 Spokane, WA 6187
2003 Charleston, WV 7198
2002 Trenton, ONT 5682
2001 Redmond, OR 6677
2000 Midland, MI 6188
1999 Rhinebeck, NY 6440
1998 Missoula, MT 6050

[airhead6]

2007 West Best, WI 7875
2006 Burlington, VT 9230
2005 Lima, OH 8048
2004 Spokane, WA 6187
2003 Charleston, WV 7198
2002 Trenton, ONT 5682
2001 Redmond, OR 6677
2000 Midland, MI 6188
1999 Rhinebeck, NY 6440
1998 Missoula, MT 6050

WOW! thanks for the data!:type

Well sounds like a lot of people had a great time this year. I did want to comment on the lack of photos for us folks who stayed home. Whom ever was in charge of last years rally photo shots and posting of them on the site did a great job. I know its a volunteer's job so let me be the first to volunteer my services next year to take a post a zillion photos so the folks at home can see all the fun they are missing.

Thanks again for the numbers
Gmac

[Bigrider]

Are there any statistics maintained on from where attendees come? I would hope that big numbers are not always the diriving force in site selection. Giving an opportunity for all members to get in on a rally, despite the prospects of lower numbers would really make me feel better...you do want me to feel good..don't you?

Dave H
San Antonio, TX
Currently drying out from Molly

[k75karol]

Are there any statistics maintained on from where attendees come? I would hope that big numbers are not always the diriving force in site selection. Giving an opportunity for all members to get in on a rally, despite the prospects of lower numbers would really make me feel better...you do want me to feel good..don't you?


We absolutely want you to feel good, Dave. Big numbers are not always the driving force. We know certain regions will get larger attendance, and other regions may have smaller attendance. The reason for having Rally "zones" is to provide varied locations that may appeal to some and not others. We knew this year's attendance would be lower than VT, but fair's fair!

[OldAndBusted]

any idea what accounts for those numbers? i'm amazed that VT of all places would have the highest number in recent years. i would think something in the middle of the country like WI would have attracted the most people.

more BMW owners concentrated in new england?

[Rob Nye]

any idea what accounts for those numbers? i'm amazed that VT of all places would have the highest number in recent years. i would think something in the middle of the country like WI would have attracted the most people.

more BMW owners concentrated in new england?

Vermont is inside of 500 miles from NYC, Boston, Baltimore, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Montreal and a whole lot of people.

We also put some extra effort into attracting first timers from these areas.

Between the concentration of riders within 500 or 1000 miles and our efforts to attract rally virgins we shattered the record.

I think Gillette was down due to the economy and to some degree our very own forum.

[GSCookeMnster]

As was noted, Vermont is central to large population centers and has great riding and uncrowded roads.

I believe Gillette was down simply because of location. Its a longggg way from anywhere. There are many who will ride to where ever the rally is located, but then there are many club members who don't have the time to ride that far. I agree that moving the rally around is great, but I also think having it closer to centers/pockets of the club members would generate more interest and attendance to the rally. And I really don't think the discussion of the benefits/faults of the Gillette location on this forum had much if any impact on attendance.

I also believe if the rally were held Tues-Thurs, that attendance would increase. With that schedule, it mean that members have a full 3 days to travel both before and after the rally and still stay the full 3 days of the rally. So a week of vacation time allows for a great week of riding and Beemers.

Brian

[Greenwald]

As was noted, Vermont is central to large population centers and has great riding and uncrowded roads.

I believe Gillette was down simply because of location. Its a longggg way from anywhere. There are many who will ride to where ever the rally is located, but then there are many club members who don't have the time to ride that far. I agree that moving the rally around is great, but I also think having it closer to centers/pockets of the club members would generate more interest and attendance to the rally. And I really don't think the discussion of the benefits/faults of the Gillette location on this forum had much if any impact on attendance.

I also believe if the rally were held Tues-Thurs, that attendance would increase. With that schedule, it mean that members have a full 3 days to travel both before and after the rally and still stay the full 3 days of the rally. So a week of vacation time allows for a great week of riding and Beemers.

Brian

In terms of attendance, I think you have to go back to circa 1993 to find a less-attended MOA rally than Gillette. Location, lack of BMW dealer-support, and no impressive proximity riding (Hundreds of miles away roundtrip, i.e. Devil's Tower, Yellowstone, Rushmore, etc. doesn't really count) all contributed to a rally that we can learn from and improve.

Given the low number of members that take the time to contribute on the forum, I agree with you that 'internet discussion' can hardly be made out to be the villain here.

I like your idea of a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday rally! Though I am retired and could accomodate any schedule, many members need to combine travel time with actual rally attendance, and your concept of a week's vacation allowing for both is interesting. Too late for '09 and probably '10, but I hope the Rally Selection Committee picks up on this suggestion and gives it some study.

Nice thinking 'outside the box.'

[Sue]

There are two schools of thought about a mid-week rally:

Rallies in less-populated areas and with a lower density of BMW MOA members would do well with a mid-week rally. Almost everyone could get to a rally anywhere in the country and home again, and only need one week of vacation. (3 days of travel to, 3 days at the rally, and 3 days of travel home...)

But imagine if you had a rally in your backyard. Would you want to burn a whole week of precious vacation time if you didn't have to? Wouldn't it be great if you could leave your house on Wednesday after work and get to the rally, knowing you haven't missed anything?!

So --- for a rally that is close to a large population area... If there are a lot more people who are within (let's say) a 6-hour ride of a rally location, they could get away with only taking one or two days of vacation if it is held on a weekend, but if it held in the middle of the week, then they TOO will have to burn more vacation time.

Just saying. There are two schools of thought. This is another one of those, "..Damned if you do, damned if you don't" issues for the Rally Site Selection Committee. No matter what decision they make, someone is not going to be happy.

:D

[KGT1200]

In terms of attendance, I think you have to go back to circa 1993 to find a less-attended MOA rally than Gillette. Location, lack of BMW dealer-support, and no impressive proximity riding (Hundreds of miles away roundtrip, i.e. Devil's Tower, Yellowstone, Rushmore, etc. doesn't really count) all contributed to a rally that we can learn from and improve.

.'


I am really stuck on somthing; West Bend was a great facility, and the proximity to the big pond was nice; but honestly here...what other fine features/attractions that even hold a candle to the Devils Tower, Bighorn Mountains, the fine fly fishing found in Wyoming? Where did I miss all that Wisconsin had to offer in 50 miles and under? What great feature rides did westbend have in store for us?

BOTH locations had great riding, BOTH facilities were fantastic. I think the argument that Gillette had no place to ride is pure hysterics. The SAME hysterics that caused such an uproar on line that infact DID greatly impact attendence in Gillette. Fact is, many people had the fact that the rally was in Wyoming stuck in their craw, and it was the naysayers their inuendos and unfounded criticisim of Gillette partially responsible for many not attending. Granted, I agree anything west of the Mississippi had an influence, lodging was also an issue that contributed to low attendence, but to blame attendence on the lack of riding is pure hogsh@^.

thats my opinion.

[GSCookeMnster]

Yup, you can't please everyone,

I've been to only a few nationals (Trenton, Charlestown, Vermont, and West Bend) and only the Vermont and Trenton rallys have I been able to attend the last day. The others I've had to leave Sat morning to get back home by Sunday evening. I'd like to attend next year's rally in Gray, Tn., but it will be the same situation, leaving Sat. So while I'll have 5 days to get there and can enjoy the trip, getting home means leaving the rally early, so I'm on the fence as to whether I'll attend.

There are always lots of theories, but dealing with customer response metrics all day in my job, theories are worthless. Response by the customer is the only metrics and it is predictable and repeatable given a large enough population. I would said that the test of having a rally far from club members with minimal good riding was greeted with tepid response by the club members. I would predict that next years rally will have very good attendance given its location. Of course the other variable, that we can't really test, is what would attendance be if the rally were held Tues-Thurs.

Oh well, suns shining (finally), time to go for a ride.

Brian

[Sue]

In terms of attendance, I think you have to go back to circa 1993 to find a less-attended MOA rally than Gillette.

Fredericksburg, Texas. Everyone obsessed about how hot it was going to be, the bad riding . . . . blah blah. Small attendance that year - less than 5,000 as I recall. (was that 1996?)

The Hill country of Texas was delightful, the weather ideal, and for the 5,000 of us who went, it was wonderful!

and with those odds, I STILL didn't win a bike. sigh.

[SheRidesABeemer]

Vermont is inside of 500 miles from NYC, Boston, Baltimore, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Montreal and a whole lot of people.


With so many members living 6-10 hours away, the opportunity to decide at the last minutes, based on a current forcast, probably impacted Vermont's attendence too.

[Sue]

With so many members living 6-10 hours away, the opportunity to decide at the last minutes, based on a current forcast, probably impacted Vermont's attendence too.

That's true. Imagine if the weather would have been sunny with temps in the 70's everyday. Vermont would have blasted right past the 10K attendance mark, without a doubt.

[RJM2096]

Having the maximum attendance is not the most important issue. It is the ride. While the Gillette location had some issues, it was in a cool location for side trips.

[PGlaves]

Different people expect/do different things at an (Inter)National Rally. I have attended every one since 1984 except 1993 in Moodus when I had just changed jobs and had zero vacation. I seldom do much riding once the rally starts - but usually take the long way-good roads to and from the rally.

This year was no different. We arrived Monday evening and spent Tuesday and Wednesday helping with Camp GEARS. We left the rally site only to go shopping for food for the GEARS campers.

Thursday I prowled the vendors, bought several "essentials" to replace stuff I wore out (boots, helmet) and attended a couple of seminars. Friday I presented 5-1/2 hours of seminars, and another hour or so answering questions after the seminars were over. Saturday I spent from 8:00 a.m until about 1:00 a.m as a judge for the K Bike Koncours. I spent a little time listening to the music and having a beer or so on Friday and Saturday nights.

Not a lot of time for exploring greater metropolitan downtown Gillette. But the ride to the rally, approaching from the west was dynamite - 16, 14, 14A, Yellowstone, Lolo Pass, and more. (We went to Alaska before the rally).

At the same time, I know folks who used the rally as a base for riding the good roads. Short trip to Devils Tower, middle sized trip to the Black Hills and Custer Park, long ride to and from Beartooth Pass. The three days were pretty well consumed riding.

Different people. Two different rallies. And lots of possibilities in between.

The biggest problem Gillette posed was for those riders who were 1,200 to 1,500 miles away and are used to 250 mile days in congested regions with a choice of a dreadful interstate or a village every 8 miles. Many couldn't even imagine the distances in the west, let alone experience them. Too bad! They missed a good rally.

[r11rs94]

In terms of attendance, I think you have to go back to circa 1993 to find a less-attended MOA rally than Gillette. Location, lack of BMW dealer-support, and no impressive proximity riding (Hundreds of miles away roundtrip, i.e. Devil's Tower, Yellowstone, Rushmore, etc. doesn't really count) all contributed to a rally that we can learn from and improve.

Given the low number of members that take the time to contribute on the forum, I agree with you that 'internet discussion' can hardly be made out to be the villain here.

I like your idea of a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday rally! Though I am retired and could accomodate any schedule, many members need to combine travel time with actual rally attendance, and your concept of a week's vacation allowing for both is interesting. Too late for '09 and probably '10, but I hope the Rally Selection Committee picks up on this suggestion and gives it some study.

Nice thinking 'outside the box.'

GREAT idea, so we will never see it. Guess I'll have to wait for a rally to come back this way or hit the power ball and retire early.

[dpeace]

My two cents worth on the rally: Yes the numbers were down from last year and yes there were fewer venders and fewer dining choices but the bottom line for me was that the riding was incredible!! It was not that far from the great rides in South Dakota or Devil's Tower. The ride to Sheridan to the Bighorn Mountains and then through Tensleep Canyon was the best ride of my motorcycling career! I was a happy man with all the riding choices available.

I rode 2000 miles each way to and from the rally and added another 1000 miles while there and still had time to watch Skert pick up a downed 1200RT, catch an excellent presentation by Helen Twowheels on riding alone and to visit with friends. I spent $500 on gas and $160 on a tent at Ted Mayberry's Sherpa tent village. Except for the storm Thursday night (or was it Friday) the weather was a lot like last year, not a big deal.

I hope the rally committee will continue to look for locations that provide opportunities for us to visit all areas of the country. Breaking attendance records should not be our goal.

Dan Peace

[Greenwald]

Fredericksburg, Texas. Everyone obsessed about how hot it was going to be, the bad riding . . . . blah blah. Small attendance that year - less than 5,000 as I recall. (was that 1996?)

The Hill country of Texas was delightful, the weather ideal, and for the 5,000 of us who went, it was wonderful!

and with those odds, I STILL didn't win a bike. sigh.

Pity you didn't win a bike. As hard as you worked on last year's rally, you deserve one.

I agree that rallies are not about setting new attendance records. It's about offering as much as possible to those who do choose to attend, and of course, 'knowing' what they want is not always a given.

West Bend was an outstanding rally in my opinion.

Gillette suffered from location. Like we didn't see that coming.

[KGT1200]

Gillette suffered from location. Like we didn't see that coming.

And Greenwald, we still don't, you speak in inaccurate generalizations.. Many, many people went to Gillette without the negitive blinders you wear, and had a great time because of the location. You personally had a bad time.

The location was different, but at risk of repeating myself from a previous post in this thread, show me a ride out of Westbend, that even stands close to the beauty, the grand of Wyoming. I don't buy that your motorcycle and your butt couldnt handle a 60 mile ride or a 100 mile ride; many of us commute further than that each day!

I and many others felt this rally, Wyoming, and the physical location of the facility in the Gillette worked out just great. Hopefully Tennessee meets your stringent qualifications; I don't think I could take another year of persistant bitching about the location.

[bmwbikertaz]

As was noted, Vermont is central to large population centers and has great riding and uncrowded roads.

I believe Gillette was down simply because of location. Its a longggg way from anywhere. There are many who will ride to where ever the rally is located, but then there are many club members who don't have the time to ride that far. I agree that moving the rally around is great, but I also think having it closer to centers/pockets of the club members would generate more interest and attendance to the rally. And I really don't think the discussion of the benefits/faults of the Gillette location on this forum had much if any impact on attendance.

I also believe if the rally were held Tues-Thurs, that attendance would increase. With that schedule, it mean that members have a full 3 days to travel both before and after the rally and still stay the full 3 days of the rally. So a week of vacation time allows for a great week of riding and Beemers.

Brian

I second you on the Tues-Thurs rally. With only one week vacation in the summer months, it sure would be nice to have the extra days to go to and from the rally. I had to borrow on next year's vacation to make the Gillette rally.

[OldAndBusted]

I'd like to attend next year's rally in Gray, Tn., but it will be the same situation, leaving Sat. So while I'll have 5 days to get there and can enjoy the trip, getting home means leaving the rally early, so I'm on the fence as to whether I'll attend.
but think of all the riding on the way! there won't be 500 yards of flat land from here to there and back. i'm excited already.

i didn't go to gilette because it was so far and because i would have had to go more or less the same direction as i went to west bend, and i really didn't enjoy that ride all that much. too flat. the riding in wyoming itself meant little to me. when i'm at the rally, i stay AT the rally to enjoy all the bikes and things, not to go riding around the area so much.

[knary]

And Greenwald, we still don't, you speak in inaccurate generalizations.. Many, many people went to Gillette without the negitive blinders you wear, and had a great time because of the location. You personally had a bad time.

The location was different, but at risk of repeating myself from a previous post in this thread, show me a ride out of Westbend, that even stands close to the beauty, the grand of Wyoming. I don't buy that your motorcycle and your butt couldnt handle a 60 mile ride or a 100 mile ride; many of us commute further than that each day!

I and many others felt this rally, Wyoming, and the physical location of the facility in the Gillette worked out just great. Hopefully Tennessee meets your stringent qualifications; I don't think I could take another year of persistant bitching about the location.

:thumb

The single biggest factor in rally attendance appears to be proximity to population. How many people live within 500 miles of the Vermont rally? I'd bet more than 50 million. There may not be much more than 2% of that within 500 miles of Gillette. Considering the distances, the attendance was pretty damn good.

More than any rally I've had the pleasure of attending (admittedly, not that many), this was a riding rally. People were telling stories of the amazing places they'd ridden and were going to ride because of where the rally was. Some did a little of it in the few days of the rally, most did it on the way to and from. I know I enjoyed the location.

[knary]

Vermont is inside of 500 miles from NYC, Boston, Baltimore, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Montreal and a whole lot of people.

We also put some extra effort into attracting first timers from these areas.

Between the concentration of riders within 500 or 1000 miles and our efforts to attract rally virgins we shattered the record.

I think Gillette was down due to the economy and to some degree our very own forum.

I don't think our forum does as much as we'd like to believe. :D

[Greenwald]

And Greenwald, we still don't, you speak in inaccurate generalizations.. Many, many people went to Gillette without the negitive blinders you wear, and had a great time because of the location. You personally had a bad time.

The location was different, but at risk of repeating myself from a previous post in this thread, show me a ride out of Westbend, that even stands close to the beauty, the grand of Wyoming. I don't buy that your motorcycle and your butt couldnt handle a 60 mile ride or a 100 mile ride; many of us commute further than that each day!

I and many others felt this rally, Wyoming, and the physical location of the facility in the Gillette worked out just great. Hopefully Tennessee meets your stringent qualifications; I don't think I could take another year of persistant bitching about the location.

Given the attendance, weather, revenue and post-rally commentary, West Bend hardly needs defending. Sue and her crew (along with Mother Nature) did a fantastic job.

All of the WY locations you flaunt are not within 50 (and sometimes, not within hundreds) of miles of rally central. As for West Bend, you had access to the Kettle Moraine twisties and Rustic Roads well before you ventured 50 miles from the Washington Co. Fairgrounds. Thus ends the geography lesson for today.

I wear neither blinders nor rose-colored glasses. I see with a critical eye, enjoy life and feel that if improvement is needed, to speak out, as do you.

Relax - I have no motivation to critique the TN location for '09, anymore than many of the 'faithful' declared Gillette a success the moment it was announced a year ago. I didn't think Gillette was a wise choice. But in fairness, I went to see for myself.

I have already ridden the Smokies many times and look forward to this location for the 37th BMW MOA Rally.

Location, Location, Location.

[KGT1200]

Given the attendance, weather, revenue and post-rally commentary, West Bend hardly needs defending. Sue and her crew (along with Mother Nature) did a fantastic job.

All of the WY locations you flaunt are not within 50 (and sometimes, not within hundreds) of miles of rally central. As for West Bend, you had access to the Kettle Moraine twisties and Rustic Roads well before you ventured 50 miles from the Washington Co. Fairgrounds. Thus ends the geography lesson for today.

I wear neither blinders nor rose-colored glasses. I see with a critical eye, enjoy life and feel that if improvement is needed, to speak out, as do you. Relax - I have no right to critique the TN location for '09, anymore than many of the 'faithful' declared Gillette a success the moment it was announced a year ago. I didn't think Gillette was a wise choice. Even so, I went to see for myself.

I have already ridden the Smokies many times and look forward to this location for the 37th BMW MOA Rally.

Location, Location, Location.

At least we agree on one thing; West Bend was a fantastic Rally.

Where we differ is I ride to ride; from your comments, I get the picture you ride for destination. Wyoming was just too much state for you! My guess is you never ventured out the rallly gate, never rode the 60 miles to the bighorns, never rode the short hop to devils tower. You missed the boat! Sorry Greenwald, the few miles of twisties surrounding Westbend does not even stand on the same platform as the majestic rides you had an opportunityto ride in Wyoming! Wake up! you missed the boat!

Westbend was fantastic, but was a different rally, and had different objectives in mind in terms of its overall intrinsic value. All I am saying and what astounds me is your unwaivering belief that Wyoming was a bad rally. Give it up! both Rally's were fantastic, and I am already excited about TN!

Revenue is not the bottom line. BMWMOA Rally is not in this world to meet your monetary performance standards, but to provide a huge variety of locations/of experiences for the members to enjoy. If we were to follow your reasoning, the door of future rally locations should be shut and shut tight using the Mississippi as a boundary.

[cjack]

The rally threads remind me of the oil threads.

[riders]

We have only missed one Rally since 89 and always enjoy the West ones better as the East ones involve riding through a lot of traffic congestion and it is usually hotter. The West can be hot but it cools off at night, the air is fresher, the sky is bigger and the West just has the allure of Go West young man. Out West you can get on some roads and have very little traffic even if they may not be as curvey as we would like. We thought Gillette was wonderful; we stayed in a motel so the camping conditions didn't concern us. We have been through the area numerous times but enjoyed the Black Hills etc. again. We try to enjoy each year and if we had to pick between Gillette and Tennesse or West Bend or Lima we would pick Gillette but nothing happens we will be in Tennesse next year.

[osbornk]

We have only missed one Rally since 89 and always enjoy the West ones better as the East ones involve riding through a lot of traffic congestion and it is usually hotter. The West can be hot but it cools off at night, the air is fresher, the sky is bigger and the West just has the allure of Go West young man. Out West you can get on some roads and have very little traffic even if they may not be as curvey as we would like. We thought Gillette was wonderful; we stayed in a motel so the camping conditions didn't concern us. We have been through the area numerous times but enjoyed the Black Hills etc. again. We try to enjoy each year and if we had to pick between Gillette and Tennesse or West Bend or Lima we would pick Gillette but nothing happens we will be in Tennesse next year.

I think you might like East Tennessee. I was camping this week about 70 miles from Gray and woke up to 53 degrees. The weather seldom gets above the mid 80s-90 in the daytime. We have little traffic around here and you might think you are in the sticks.

[Greenwald]

Well redclfco We do agree that West Bend was a good Rally.

After that, you and I are a universe apart on too many issues.

You have no idea WHY I ride, what I did in or around Gillette, what I expect of a rally, etc., etc., etc.

We don't need to waste space on this Forum being at odds, so I shall execute a graceful exit.

Gillette is now part of the MOA history. How it will be judged is as yet an unwritten chapter.

Ride Safe!

[cjack]

I've never been to a BMW rally I didn't like. I think the rally is really the people. Some venues may test you but the people make it work. Tireless chair persons, volunteers, and all the rally goers.
And the ride...even if it is across the plains...there is always a story or a memory from every mile.

[ChasBrink]

At least we agree on one thing; West Bend was a fantastic Rally.

Where we differ is I ride to ride; from your comments, I get the picture you ride for destination. Wyoming was just too much state for you! My guess is you never ventured out the rallly gate, never rode the 60 miles to the bighorns, never rode the short hop to devils tower. You missed the boat! Sorry Greenwald, the few miles of twisties surrounding Westbend does not even stand on the same platform as the majestic rides you had an opportunityto ride in Wyoming! Wake up! you missed the boat!

Westbend was fantastic, but was a different rally, and had different objectives in mind in terms of its overall intrinsic value. All I am saying and what astounds me is your unwaivering belief that Wyoming was a bad rally. Give it up! both Rally's were fantastic, and I am already excited about TN!

Revenue is not the bottom line. BMWMOA Rally is not in this world to meet your monetary performance standards, but to provide a huge variety of locations/of experiences for the members to enjoy. If we were to follow your reasoning, the door of future rally locations should be shut and shut tight using the Mississippi as a boundary.

+1 :drink

[kbasa]

Having the maximum attendance is not the most important issue. It is the ride. While the Gillette location had some issues, it was in a cool location for side trips.

For us, it was the trip there and back. On the way, we rode in Nevada, Utah and Wyoming, finding great, uncrowded and scenic riding all along the way. On the way back, we dropped down to Colorado, then up through Utah, into Wyoming, then over through Idaho to Oregon and down into California. Yeah, the riding around Gillette didn't pull me off site, but, to be honest, I'm pretty busy at the rally and don't usually get out much.

But, man, the trip there and back was terrific. We camped in Estes Park, spent a night in Glenwood Springs, camped outside Flaming Gorge, camped near Jackson Hole, spent time riding the mountains in Colorado and had a couple great days of riding in Idaho and western Wyoming.

What Wyoming offered was a terminus for our trip, complete with friends and partying.

[kbasa]

GREAT idea, so we will never see it. Guess I'll have to wait for a rally to come back this way or hit the power ball and retire early.

Mid week rallies are problematic for those of us that live on the coasts. For example, if a rally goes from Thursday to Sunday and is on the east coast, I have about 5 or 6 days to get there and a bit more than a week to get home. If it's midweek, on a Tuesday through Friday schedule, I have 3 or 4 days to cross the country and 2 days to get home, unless I want to be out for portions of three consecutive weeks. That can be a hassle for many.

[Colt03]

I had a blast at this rally, We spent three days riding in SD, ND and Montana. We rode the Black Hills, The Badlands, Devils Tower and Three Center of the USA sites ( see thread under ride reports. )
I volunteered the Thursday evening IBMWR Beer Garden and spent Friday on a 650 mile loop to Bear Tooth Pass and back.

My only regret is I didn't socialize as much as I wanted to, the Woodfords is unopened :(

Great Job, Great Rally.

[nyfty]

Gillette was my second rally. I really enjoyed my first in West Bend. (Thanks Sue & Crew) Both of them were one long days ride from home for me. As a matter of fact both locations were within a handful of miles different from the other. You see I can only take one week of vacation at a time. So I have to be able to make the return trip on Sunday's. That way I can be at "battle stations" Monday morning. (I'd vote for Tuesday - Thursday or Wednesday - Friday rallies)

Both rallies I had planned on doing my riding before getting to the rally sight. Like Paul and Voni I took the long way to Gillette. i.e. Chief Joseph, Beartooth, and WY 14A/14. Once there I didn't start my GS till I was ready to leave Sunday. The rally to me is to see friends, meet new friends and to see the vendors and entertainment.

When Gillette was announced last year I was to say the least very happy. 1. Because I knew I would be able to get home in one day. And 2. Because I knew that there would be some great riding if I took a less direct route to Gillette.

Last year while riding the SS Badger I was talking to some people from the eastern seaboard. They were asking questions about riding "out west". While they had the atlas out they were asking if it was possible to go from point A to point B in a day. After trying to explain to them that the days they were planning would be really long, I finally explained it this way. "West of the Missouri River, distances are farther than they appear." I don't think they could grasp the vast open spaces of the Great Plains and the Rocky Mountain regions. I'm wondering if they made the trip this year to see those wide open spaces?

Was Gillette a success? Well for me is was! It allowed me to ride in the Rockies for 4 days and spend time with old and new friends. (Thanks Deb, Carol & Crew)

Will I make it 3 in a row? Nope, from the 2009 rally site to home is about 1100 miles. (mid week rally no problem, two 500 mile days) I really don't want to do a SS1K after being out for the previous 8 days. Maybe next year will be a regional rally summer, let's see, Top of the Rockies, Hiawatha rally.....maybe I'll see you down the road.

[aaaaaa]

The beer garden has been good every rally I've been too. I guess I like to keep it simple.
robert:buds

[amiles]

I think that those who discount the importance of attendance at the nationals are missing an important point. The national is our one family gathering per year. Going from an area where I seldom see a BMW to a gathering of thousands of them and their proud owners makes me feel really good. I can't help but believe that the more members who attend the national and hopefully leave with a good experience, the more solid membership base the organization will have.

It is nice also to be able to visit vendors that sell things that I can use. Being able to hold, try on and discuss things prior to purchase is a big thing for me. Being able to ask those that already own something that I have considered buying is also a big plus to me.

I made the national the basis (excuse?) for my big adventure. Everyone who knew I was going either thought I was crazy or I think that I am made of iron. I went to the rally from home, from there to Phoenix, Houston and home about 6,000 mi or so, The last stretch from Houston to home was a 1,200 mile 21 hr blast on I 10. Not too bad for a 32 year old Motorcycle eh?

For some the distance is the enticement, for some it is the opposite. Too warm, too cold, too urban too rural, who can say, we are all different people with different circumstances.

On my own I would probably have never visited the locations where the rallies I have attended were held. I have found since the rally in Rutland, that if I don't attend the closing ceremony I am much happier, I tried once more coincidentally in Burlington and will continue to forgo them. In particular I think that the age/distance rewards are way out of hand. I seem to remember a rider who complained about not getting what he felt was proper recognition for a three rally mountain combo ride at this time.

As I was leaving for Gillette, I paused to say goodbye to a neighbor who's son recently bought a K-75. The neighbor reported that his son would have liked to attend, but so far 300 mi was his comfort limit. I told him that in '09 the rally would be nearer for his son (A Tennessee resident) being held in the Johnson City area. The neighbor replied that his son lived near there and would be very happy. I further explained that the rally would be held in a fairgrounds in Gray a nearby community. Lo and behold the son lives in Gray. Now I suppose he will complain about the walk to the rally!

[kbasa]

I was stopped by a half dozen riders from central Canada that were at their first rally. They were very happy to have a rally in their area, at long last.

One man's ceiling is another man's floor, right?

[KGT1200]

The beer garden has been good every rally I've been too. I guess I like to keep it simple.
robert:buds

As a first time volunteer, we tried to reach way down low in the tubs for ice cold ones for everybody!

I was amazed on my shift on how much our Beer Garden Capt authorised us to use ice to keep what we served ICE cold!

Cudos to all involved in the beer garden; as a volunteer, it was easy to work, and fantastic to see the gratitude of the thirsty Bikers as I slapped a cold one from down deep in the well into their hands!

For those of you like me, the HUGE water was also a real hit, and was much appreciated!

Suggesttion for 09? Include some other non-sticky pop drinnks for those who like the beverages unleaded, like canned ice teas, mineral waters; during my two shifts, that was the one request for drinks most often answered with "I'm sorry, but we don't have that"!

[The_Veg]

Also, the lack of trees, grass and normal summertime temperatures also impacted the turnout.

The temperature was one thing that defintely drew me to Gillette! It was drastically less hot than my neighbourhood!

[The_Veg]

I think the argument that Gillette had no place to ride is pure hysterics.

I agree. Great (or even good) riding and things to do on two wheels were closer to Gillette than they were to Lima- I mean, Lima was stuck in the middle of hundreds of miles of flat cornfields with only straight roads as far as the eye can see...yet I don't remember any of the same griping.
Devils Tower is less than an hour from Gillette. I went out, had a great time hiking around the thing, and was back at the rally inside three hours.
Of course human purposes come into it also. For me, the fun riding/exploring is to be done on the way to/from the rally, and the rally itself is for hanging out with countless friends old and new.

[knary]

The temperature was one thing that defintely drew me to Gillette! It was drastically less hot than my neighbourhood!

I don't get why people think of Wyoming as hot. Most of the midwest and east coast, never mind the south, during the summer months is far less pleasant - just as hot if not hotter, plus hot at night, and very very muggy. The only places more pleasant are right on the coast or even farther up into the mountains.

[The_Veg]

I don't get why people think of Wyoming as hot. Most of the midwest and east coast, never mind the south, during the summer months is far less pleasant - just as hot if not hotter, plus hot at night, and very very muggy. The only places more pleasant are right on the coast or even farther up into the mountains.

Exactly- tonight the low temperature inmy neck of the woods will be in the 80s, with enough hunidity to be uncomfortable. To have been able to sleep in a tent on a cool dry night (except for that one storm anyway) in summer is a real treat.