Simple tune-up now, no spark - ?? 78 R100s

[DWr100s]

I just replaced my points and condenser, NO other changes and done very carefully with battery NEG terminal disco'd, it went fine, I reseated (wiggled) other wires that have those slip over connectors.

Now no spark (checked with the plug wire held away from the plug) but it just sounds like an air pump now when I turn it over. Zero spark.

Parts are from a very good local BMW shop, but I did keep the old ones.

Can a new condensor be bad (anything can, right?). I didn't see any orientation to the two wires on the condensor, possible to get them wrong?

Strong new battery, drove the bike yesterday. I was so excited to see the diff, those were old parts, the points were not even lining up correctly and really seriously pitted.

I'd planned to tackle a carb cleaning and check up job next.

Update: opened it up again, reversed wires on the condensor just for the heck of it, and I see I've no doubt boogered this, the points need to be in a specific position against the armature (?). I got a backfire out of it by moving them but nothing more. Didn't check for spark at the plug wires after this change but that one backfire was all I got and no start still or even near a sputtering start.

DOA

[20774]

How was the static timing? Were you seeing the points open when the S-mark appears in the window? If the points don't open, you won't get any spark. You need to use either a 12v test lamp or an ohmeter to set the points. I don't think a bad sensor would cause the bike not to run...run poorly or burn up the points fast, but it should run.

Also, I've heard that the wires can get pinched that exit the top of the front engine cover. If the condensor wire gets pinched as a result of that, it would ground the points.

[DWr100s]

How was the static timing? Were you seeing the points open when the S-mark appears in the window? If the points don't open, you won't get any spark. You need to use either a 12v test lamp or an ohmeter to set the points. I don't think a bad sensor would cause the bike not to run...run poorly or burn up the points fast, but it should run.

Also, I've heard that the wires can get pinched that exit the top of the front engine cover. If the condensor wire gets pinched as a result of that, it would ground the points.


Well had I checked the static timing I would know but.. hey I'm a software guy, I thought this was just a hardware swap!! Ok so I need to time it, I've obviously thought I could do this without that process (yes, duh).

THANK you, figured I'd blown it but your reality check confirms. I'll buy a timing light and do that process next. I move the points around is that the deal, till they're set right? I do have the Clymers shop manual.

I sold my '68 R69S a couple years ago, had it for 25 but it needed major work and as you can see, that's not my strength.

[20774]

No, it's not just a hardware swap. The points are adjustable and that's probably what's going on here.

Be sure and read the Clymers for a basic understanding of the process. It comes down to a couple of basic steps:

- get the maximum point gap set correctly. This is somewhat of a starting point as the actual gap can be adjusted as necessary. The engine has to be rotated by hand to a point where the oval nature of the points cam will drive the points gap the most. Once at that point, you then make some adjustments to get the proper gap...about 0.016" I believe.

- with the gap set, now you want to set the point at which the points just open. When doing this with the engine off, the points should just open when the S-mark is in the timing window. As I said, you can't see the points opening with your eye or measure it with a feeler gage. One of the best things to use is a digital voltmeter set to the resistance scale. Especially one that has a buzzing feature when you have continuity. When properly set up, you turn the engine and for some of the turning process, the meter will be buzzing all the time. As soon as the points open, the buzzing stops. That's when you look in the timing window. Depending on what you see, you may have to rotate the entire points plate CW or CCW to achieve the right static timing.

- in the end, the best way to check timing is dynamically. If you get the static timing close enough to start the bike, then when it's running and you've hooked up your timing light, you can see the timing marks in the window while changing the RPM. You'll know when you have the timing right when at say 3000 RPM, the timing lights shows a full-advance mark in the center of the timing window. If not, then you need to change the static timing accordingly.

You might want to do some advance searches on the Airheads forum here looking for words like points, condensor, timing, static timing, etc. You'll see that others have discussed this in the past. Click on Search, then on Advance Search. Enter your words and then limit the search to Airheads.

Good luck...and let us know how you're making out.

I've been enjoying my R69S...it's such a different bike than my /7. Yes, when I got it, it needed major work...slingers, valves, etc. Plus I had to relearn how to set points since my /7 has an aftermarket electronic ignition on it. But now that that's done, I get to ride it!!

[DWr100s]

Well I owe you.. thanks for taking the time for this chucklehead. Really if you met me in person you'd not think me an idiot..

I understand completely, naive of me to think I could get new points repositioned perfectly without timing.

So to my knowledge my old '68 R69S was the last with the Earl's front, is yours telescopic forks then? She was a sweet old gal but needed work and I became garage-less a couple years ago. The guy that bought the bike is a total restoration nut and sent me pics, I felt so good seeing it so beautifully restored. It was a major engine rework as well.

Again, thanks. I don't know why I've not been on this forum, I've owned Beemers since 1973, and am active on the Corvette forum (which is free by the way).

Have a fine safe riding summer and yes, I'll go back to the drawing board, get the right equipment and start over with your fine guidance in hand.

Doug

[88bmwJeff]

Doug,
Don't know exactly where you are in the SF Bay Area, but there's a Tech Day coming up next month in Pleasanton on July 26. See link below for more info. Sounds like you could benefit from it, and I hope to see you there.

http://www.airheads.org/component/option,com_events/task,view_detail/agid,244/year,2008/month,07/day,26/Itemid,40/

[Friedle]

Just asking, but are you sure the engine cut off switch is in the"run" position?

Friedle

[20774]

So to my knowledge my old '68 R69S was the last with the Earl's front, is yours telescopic forks then?

Mine is an Earles fork...that's what I really wanted. They made both types of forks for the '68 and '69 model years. I figured since I already had US-style forks (my /7) I wanted something a little different. The R69US models were the early version of the /5 and I wanted to go back a little further than that. It just kills me that when you grab front brake rolling the bike around in the driveway, the front end rises...wild!!

I'm glad your bike found a good home. I just did a mechanical restoration...it still has the patina of being 40-years old but overall, looks pretty good. At some point, I may do a ground up restoration, but probably not very soon.

[DennisDarrow]

Kurt,

Thanks for taking the time to spell out how to install points.........Afraid that in these plug and play days folks have a problem with "mechanisms" needing those fine adjustments.

I look back at my aversion to swapping out the ignition to the electronics style. Perhaps it is just this situation. Points ignition systems are so very simple to work on and trouble shoot. Versus sensors, relays, and black boxes that fail in the worst of situations.

Anyway..........thanks and a tip of the hat.............Dennis

[DWr100s]

thanks guys, buying a timing light today, and I'll be there for that Pleasanton gig!
Doug

[manicmechanic]

One thing you might check while under the front cover is to make sure that you haven inadvertently pinched the wire from the points to the condenser when installing the cover. Makes spark disappear quickly.

[DWr100s]

No, the problem is my numb brain thinking I could just kind of visually get the new points back in there in just the same position as the old ones; never mind that since it's new the gizmo that opens and closes them is not worn down like the old one so there's no way that was going to fly.

But I'll be double careful not to pinch wires, that is not the problem. I did get it to backfire once at least.

My Clymers, which I had in hand so I had no excuse to be that dumb - says get a Xenon type timing light for accurate timing. I'm assuming that's more than the basic $40 strobe I see at Kragen's etc, is it truly necessary?

And re gaps - I'm going at the wide end of the range when I redo the points and plugs, any advice there? It's got 54K miles, new air filter, and next I'll do the valve adjustment, then very very carefully with Clymer in hand, clean up the carbs one at a time.

THANKS ALL, much appreciate the input.

[rocketman]

No, the problem is my numb brain thinking I could just kind of visually get the new points back in there in just the same position as the old ones; never mind that since it's new the gizmo that opens and closes them is not worn down like the old one so there's no way that was going to fly.

But I'll be double careful not to pinch wires, that is not the problem. I did get it to backfire once at least.

My Clymers, which I had in hand so I had no excuse to be that dumb - says get a Xenon type timing light for accurate timing. I'm assuming that's more than the basic $40 strobe I see at Kragen's etc, is it truly necessary?

And re gaps - I'm going at the wide end of the range when I redo the points and plugs, any advice there? It's got 54K miles, new air filter, and next I'll do the valve adjustment, then very very carefully with Clymer in hand, clean up the carbs one at a time.

THANKS ALL, much appreciate the input.

I believe the Xenon is the brightest light and thus easier to see even in daylight, that's what I use and I don't have a problem ever seeing the marks. Another thing you can do that helps to see the mark is use a piece of white chock to mark the flywheel at the timing mark, it helps make it all the more visible. As critical as timing is getting the best light is worth it. As long as you have points you'll be doing it on a fairly regular basis. I'd recommend looking into getting an electronic ignition, then you can set it and forget it. Worth the money in my view. But keep the points plate and such since if it dies its a non-repairable unit.

RM

[DennisDarrow]

Hey Bud......Several issues here

Set the points and plugs per factory specs......Just because I am getting old, I still like my clothes to fit properly.

Get an induction type timing light. One lead to the positive battery, another to ground, and the other lead has a clamp that attaches to the plug wire.....Really hard to not get it hooked up right.

Did you figure out how to use a test lamp or ohm meter to find out when you are rotating the flywheel at the "S" mark and find that exact point where your points begin to open? If you have, and have set the points gap properly, that puppy should fire right up.

Set the points gap properly. Yes, it is tiresome to try to get the feeler guage down into that very tiny position; but accept nothing but just a slight bit of drag as you push back and forth through the points, without the points arm moving........Be exact........

Keep trying............you are getting there.........Dennis

[20774]

RE: the timing light -- power for the timing light is 12v and most people just hook it up to the battery on the bike. It's been stated that this might not be the best way to get power, but rather you should hook the timing light up to a different battery, such as a car or possibly a spare battery. The possibility exists that the battery in the bike could result in false readings because it's part of the whole circuit on the bike you're trying to time. I'm not sure I buy into that, but it's a consideration.

RE: setting the gap -- it's something of a hassle to set the gap because you typically have to remove the advance unit, make an adjustment, replace the advance unit, check gap, repeat... A link was posted on a past thread which shows a tool which is designed to replace the advance unit for the purpose of setting the gap. It simulates the maximum diameter of the advance cam so you can set the gap easily. The link went to Duane's website for setting points (about half way down); the additional link is to the picture of the gap setting tool.

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/points/
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/points/points4.jpg

[rocketman]

For used points or once you have some miles on the new set, make sure to file the surfaces as one side tends to develope a pit and the other side will have a small rasied surface, you'll need to flatten both surfaces before setting the gap again, and yeah that tool that was mentioned makes setting the points way easier as you won't have the advance unit interfering with getting the gage inbetween the points.

RM

[DWr100s]

What great info, ok, thanks to all! - how does advance do it?

I can see that getting the feeler in there is going to be a challenge, looking in a bit here at the insides again to see just how bad it will be and if maybe I postpone till I get the gizmo referred to.

Tips re gapping, Xenon light, separate battery (kinda makes sense to me too... but what do I know), chocking the marks to see them better - priceless.

The advance - I get the concept, advance/retard timing based on engine RPM for max power via the spark timing but I don't get how it works. Higher RPM, the weights go out further on centrifugal force over the spring resistance but, that whole barrel it sits on that is round with flat sides opening and closing the points gap - how do the weights moving change all that? It's bolted down to the cam or something isn't it?

[20774]

The advance - I get the concept, advance/retard timing based on engine RPM for max power via the spark timing but I don't get how it works. Higher RPM, the weights go out further on centrifugal force over the spring resistance but, that whole barrel it sits on that is round with flat sides opening and closing the points gap - how do the weights moving change all that? It's bolted down to the cam or something isn't it?

Next time you get in there, take a lot at what happens when you pull the weights out by hand. They're tied to the central hub, which is not round...it's a cam and has lobes on it. When you pull the weights out, the cam rotates in the other direction. By moving the cam in one direction but keeping the points rubbing block in the same position, you've effectively changed when the points open and close, since the high spot on the cam will now show up sooner that when the weights were not spread out.

[DWr100s]

Check, I pulled the advance off and this time I played with it, get that now, it moves with RPM, etc.

Learned things, have new (sorry, dumb and basic) questions.

OK, found the main problem; I hadn't tightened the points down well enough and they were permanently closed. Pushed them in flush, open, and screwed them back down. I know that's not the right gap but it's a gap (mine should be between .014-016), I'll go at this with a feeler gauge in the next round.

I rotated the crank (properly) and found they open widest about 20 degrees of a rotation past where I see the 'S' timing mark.

Static timing next, I have a light, I connect an alligator clip to the condenser wire to the points, and the other to a ground. The light should come on when I'm at the S mark.

I should have the ignition 'on' to do this right? (it's my first time I don't want to blow this up worse than I have)

I think if I can get it static timed it will run, it ran well not great with old pitted points.

PLUGS - one plug looks like hell, the other a pretty good grey though too much black. Probably carburetion and/or rings on a cylinder fouling one so badly? I'm putting in new and will observe.

It does use oil, probably (no accurate record) even more than normal though I never see black smoke or anything.

When I had it very poorly gapped initially, and would turn over like mad but no sign of start, I think I made some adjustment to the points and on the next try a very power BACKFIRE. Now I see oil leaking like never before from it. Oh boy, but I'll cross that bridge later (my helper said when I was manually spinning the crank in todays efforts, she saw oil spurt from the rubber valve grommet on one side) plus it's suddenly leaking from the main oil pan gasket like never before.

Hoping that was a one time thing due to the backfire/pressure and I didn't do permanent harm.

Thanks to ANY and ALL that actually read this far in and care to give me continued basic guidance. I'm trying, I have a manual, tools and dirty greasy hands and clothes now, best I can say for myself here.

But if you ever need computer help, I'm your guy. 20 years in Silicon Valley as an IT professional, THAT stuff I know. (but it's not near as fun)

[DWr100s]

Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, a recent trip to their amazing weapons museum, guns from all over the world and every war and about 200 tanks parked outdoors that are unbelievable.

But my favorite almost (other than a real Gatling gun) was the nice little item from the Marine Corps on display in front of the building.

I feel like I dropped one of these on myself on this project but I'll see it through.

[20774]

Static timing next, I have a light, I connect an alligator clip to the condenser wire to the points, and the other to a ground. The light should come on when I'm at the S mark.

I should have the ignition 'on' to do this right? (it's my first time I don't want to blow this up worse than I have)

Yes, that's right. I think if you connect one end to the screw head that is on top of the points, that should be a good spot. The othe end to ground.

PLUGS - one plug looks like hell, the other a pretty good grey though too much black. Probably carburetion and/or rings on a cylinder fouling one so badly? I'm putting in new and will observe.

At some point, you'll probably need to do a compression and/or leakdown test to get a better handle on the health of the engine. Be sure the valves are properly set before you try these tests.

When I had it very poorly gapped initially, and would turn over like mad but no sign of start, I think I made some adjustment to the points and on the next try a very power BACKFIRE. Now I see oil leaking like never before from it. Oh boy, but I'll cross that bridge later (my helper said when I was manually spinning the crank in todays efforts, she saw oil spurt from the rubber valve grommet on one side) plus it's suddenly leaking from the main oil pan gasket like never before.

Hoping that was a one time thing due to the backfire/pressure and I didn't do permanent harm.


I've never heard of a backfire creating an oil leak problem. A backfire would send power pulses in reverse through the carb or if really poorly timed, it could go out the exhaust well after the valve opens. But the rings keep the pulses from getting to the crankcase...after all that's their purpose. It may just be coincidental.

I suppose if the head bolts were really, really loose, then the firing pulses would tend to left the head/cylinder off the block, loosening the tension on the pushrod tube seals. If you think that might be a problem, you'd better check the torque on those bolts before you proceed.

[DWr100s]

Got it, awesome. Borrowing a timing light today, I've got the concepts and should get it running.

Valves then test compression, check!

thanks man.

[benway]

"Yes, that's right. I think if you connect one end to the screw head that is on top of the points, that should be a good spot. The othe end to ground."

if you connect it there,wont it stop the atu from rotating?

I clip mine to the condenser terminal

hope that helps

[20774]

"Yes, that's right. I think if you connect one end to the screw head that is on top of the points, that should be a good spot. The othe end to ground."

if you connect it there,wont it stop the atu from rotating?

Hasn't been a problem on my /2...I have an electronic ignition on my /7. The screw that I attach to is where the condensor wire mates with the points. What I use to set the static timing is a multimeter, measuring ohms. Of course I don't actually run the bike, I just turn the engine slowly by the rear wheel and tranny in a high gear. I listen for the buzzing feature of the multimeter to stop buzzing, indicating the ponts have opened. I then go see where the S-mark is.

[kbasa]

:lurk

[benway]

Kurt, I think if you attach to that screw [on a /6 or early /7], it will block your abilty to adjust the points [ as well as rotate the atu, and isnt it also attached to the case/grounded anyway?

I dont know /2s, but I think it must be an entirely different set up?

[ignore the red arrow]

http://penforhire.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/2195-points-with-advance-gap.jpg

I clip here, on the condenser terminal, and then to the case for the -ve

http://penforhire.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/2196-condenser.jpg

[20774]

I haven't seen points on a /5-on bike in 25+ years, so maybe I'm not remembering things quite so clear. Here's a couple of somewhat bad pictures of my R69S in the area of the points.

http://pages.prodigy.net/kschrader/teardown/1-29-06/TimingChestUpperx.jpg

http://pages.prodigy.net/kschrader/teardown/1-29-06/TimingChestRightClosex.jpg

On my /2, I connect to the same location as the black wire connects from the condensor. I now realize that the /5-on condensor is located remotely from the points...so your connection to the condensor wire proper is most likely the same thing.

In your top photo, I suppose one could actually put an alligator clip on the moveable nose of the points?? As it moves away from the fixed side of the points, the path would be broken and the multimeter would stop buzzing.

No matter, as your suggestion to use the end of the condensor wires accomplishes the same thing.

[DennisDarrow]

Good stuff...........and if I remember.....which I doubt.....the light should go OFF when you get to the "S" mark and the points open......Just like when the ohm meter senses a broken circuit and registers 0. Could be very wrong about this though cause my dyslexia gets worse by the day.........

I suggest having the trans in neutral and turning the engine over with an allen wrench in the alternator...............

Perhaps you can set the points a bit easier and more accuratly if you rotate past the "S" mark a few degrees........The "S" mark is for timing and if you have it open there enough to set the points you will have it a bit off........

Yes, you can easily adjust the points with the advance IN.........kind of a pain; but for me, better than risking taking off that pesky cam nut and the chance of stripping it.................

[DWr100s]

You guys are awesome, thanks.

That is one clean motorcycle, did you rebuild that engine to have it so clean, wow.

I just bought two flavors of feeler gauges, hoping I get to those points with one or the other handily, borrowed a Sears induction timing light. I'm armed and dangerous. Gap when at widest open to .016, then time it per the manual. Got it now.

I think I can gap it with the ATU in, I bought a set of angled feelers. We'll see. Yes, I'd gap it while already at it's widest opening, per the manual and righto, that occurs about 20 degrees past the S in the timing window.

Fyi on my 78 R100s, the points are down below by themselves, and the wire to the condenser runs up above, like in Benway's pictures (so clean.... geez). I'll connect at the condensor and a good ground for the timing light.

Benway - What DO you use to clean that motor, I've not found anything that's effective, the local Beemer shop had no suggested products. I remember finding something once but forgot what it was now. Sure like to shine mine up better outside.

Thanks again all and have a fun and safe terrific 4th of July!

[DWr100s]

Thanks for the support, gentlemen, I was nervous about wading in without some backup and I'm really grateful.

Points gapped properly, new plugs installed, that's it for now.

Starts and runs, sounds good, about to take it for a spin and see what difference I can hear/feel. I had filled the tank and put 60 miles on before this mild tuneup, so I'm going to fill it and see what the gas mileage change might be (mine was poor I'd say, previously).

Things I learned:

- check your tools, my new feeler gauges were soaked in oil, that would have been bad on my new points, and the tester bulb I found in my toolkit - after hooking it up and getting no light when I turned the crank - also didn't work hooked directly to the battery. Turns out its AC/DC but 90v minimum, per the label.

- take some Aleve first; have a cold beer waiting for 'after'

- helluva time getting those points gapped to .016 and them staying there when tightened down, finally left a .015 feeler in there while tightening and that maybe helped, not sure but after about 20 minutes of adjusting, loosening, adjusting, tightening they were on the money (see Aleve, above)

- there no better feeling than doing it yourself

The pic is actually of it running but the exposure is so fast it's stop motion. Still, this is a running R100s, thanks to you guys.

[kbasa]

:clap It lives!

I see a new alternator seal in your future. :nod

[20774]

The pic is actually of it running but the exposure is so fast it's stop motion. Still, this is a running R100s, thanks to you guys.

Be careful when running with the cover off. That black tube which houses the wiring can slip off and get cut or mangled by the spinning advance unit...it won't ruin your day, but it won't be fun either.

[DennisDarrow]

It's the simple things that bring the greatest smiles in your soul.......God Bless.......Dennis

[DWr100s]

I'd kinda hoped the picture might inspire some advice, and thanks for it - alternator seal huh? I figured that was not looking right there. Oh boy.

And yikers, I didn't think about the wire to the condensor coming loose and getting whacked, thanks! Won't be doing that again or if I do, I'll make sure and pin that wiring down first. I cannot imagine how PO'd I'd have been if after getting it running it self destructed right in front of me.... ha. Almost funny to think about. Not quite though.

It runs like a TOP, what a difference! I figured this would have minor effect and it would be a carb job that would make the big difference but, plugs and points were huge, it purrs right up to 6500 RPM! Checking mileage today, it was only getting about 27 mpg, I rode it about 130 miles yesterday and will check consumption today when I fill 'er up.

Thanks guys.

[DWr100s]

Between the new points and plugs, I'd say it was the plugs that made the huge difference. I checked them after putting in new with the new points yesterday, and after 110 miles, totally black around the rim, fairly nice all gray on the 'ends' on one cylinder, the other cyl not so good, more black clear out to the tips.

Riding it today with the plugs like that, it was already degrading, back to the surging and uneveness when held at certain RPM's.

I'll clean these new plugs up real well before the next ride to confirm, and give the new points a look too for that matter.

Next step, find the culprit.

DW

[20774]

I'd planned to tackle a carb cleaning and check up job next.

This is part of what you originally posted...I think you may need to look into the carb if you're getting lousy mileage and the plugs get that black that fast.

[DWr100s]

Looks like I'm running way rich, right? Ok, next on the list. I have the Bing CV carbs, one cylinder has always been a problem and rich. I know going too lean is bad (heat) but I'm obviously rich.

Thanks, doesn't seem like an oil problem, that's good news.

dw

[DennisDarrow]

dw............

A couple of thoughts:

When you take off the front cover next time, clean up the rubber block that fits in the slot there by the points, holding the black wire. Clean up the slot itself and then a bit of silicone/rtv to hold it in place. DO NOT USE SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE EASILY TAKEN OFF............This will do two things. Most importantly it keeps the block in place as you put the cover back on and avoids problems with that. It also allows you to run the engine for timing/testing without worrying about the wire getting tangled in the advance.

Start a new thread about your carbs..........please research on here and airheads. There is a world of information there and here. My personal thought is quit fooling with your plugs. You have fire there and it runs.

Could be:
choke cables need adjusting
choke needs a cleaning
diaghrams
carb "O" rings
needles out of adjustment
could be jets; but this is not common, unless someone has put in non-standard
float levels

Best plan on doing some research and then do one at a time. My personal opinion is to leave the butterfly's alone and do them as a last resort if all else fails. They are kinda tricky; but the rest is straight forward and can be done with care.

See you then...........Dennis

[DWr100s]

dw............

A couple of thoughts:
When you take off the front cover next time, clean up the rubber block that fits in the slot there by the points, holding the black wire. Clean up the slot itself and then a bit of silicone/rtv to hold it in place. DO NOT USE SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE EASILY TAKEN OFF............This will do two things. Most importantly it keeps the block in place as you put the cover back on and avoids problems with that. It also allows you to run the engine for timing/testing without worrying about the wire getting tangled in the advance.

Start a new thread about your carbs..........please research on here and airheads. There is a world of information there and here. My personal thought is quit fooling with your plugs. You have fire there and it runs.

Could be:
choke cables need adjusting
choke needs a cleaning
diaghrams
carb "O" rings
needles out of adjustment
could be jets; but this is not common, unless someone has put in non-standard
float levels

Best plan on doing some research and then do one at a time. My personal opinion is to leave the butterfly's alone and do them as a last resort if all else fails. They are kinda tricky; but the rest is straight forward and can be done with care.

See you then...........Dennis

got it, thanks!
- I'm right there on this, actually I read all about carb cleaning and etc here, and in my Clymer's manual but did the points/plugs first. Good tip about using silicone or something to seal that wire, especially given as was pointed out I'm blowing crud into that area (some gasket). Avoiding Butterfly's duly noted, read that too. And jets should be right, crudded up maybe but no replacement needed unless they're bad.

Checked timing with a light, spot on it seems. And that weird burst of oil leakage that I kind of think sync'd with the big backfire (when I was trying to get the points gapped after replacing them led to no start) seems to be over. No more leak and it's topped up too.

Choke, then carbs themselves. Check.

[kbasa]

It's easy to get those little enricheners in wrong, so pay close attention to how they come out.

Air leaks in there can cause you great hassle.

[AnnapolisAirhead]

It's easy to get those little enricheners in wrong, so pay close attention to how they come out.

Air leaks in there can cause you great hassle.

Excellent point Dave makes. On the enricher (choke) post, the part the sticks through the choke housing, there is a tiny dimple on the top of the post (can be seen without removing the chock housing). Make sure that that little dimple is on the same side as the 'tombstone' of the housing. If not, the choke will never be completely off.

Also, do one carb at a time, as several of the carb parts are 'handed' so to speak (left handed, right handed, etc.). Hope this helps. I just went through it too.

[88bmwJeff]

DW, congrats on getting it running.

The carb rebuild isn't that difficult, and I replaced the o rings on the throttle shaft. Given the age of the bike and carbs, I think it's a good idea to replace the throttle shaft O rings, BUT you have to be careful to file/grind down the screws on the butterfly or you will be buying new shafts. It's not the end of the world if you leave them be.

As Kbasa indicated, it looks like it's time to replace the crankshaft seal behind the alternator. If you're still going to the tech day on the 26th, just bring it and work on it there. They'll be plenty of experienced people around to give you a hand. You do need a "special tool" to remove the alternator rotor. It's $8 at Cycleworks (http://www.cycleworks.net/), and I can't remember what dealers charge for it. If you don't have one by the tech day, don't worry. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a few floating around that day.

Hope to see you on the 26th.

[kbasa]

As Kbasa indicated, it looks like it's time to replace the crankshaft seal behind the alternator. If you're still going to the tech day on the 26th, just bring it and work on it there. They'll be plenty of experienced people around to give you a hand. You do need a "special tool" to remove the alternator rotor. It's $8 at Cycleworks (http://www.cycleworks.net/), and I can't remember what dealers charge for it. If you don't have one by the tech day, don't worry. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a few floating around that day.

Hope to see you on the 26th.

$8! I made one in about 5 minutes in my garage, 4 of which was looking around for an appropriately sized bolt. :ha

I used an old eye bolt, cutting it to the appropriate length by measuring it against the rotor bolt. I took a deep breath, remembered I had a magnetic retriever and popped the cut down bolt in the hole. I screwed the rotor bolt in about a half dozen turns and the rotor popped right off. :D

The little tool now lives in my tool roll.

[kbasa]

Excellent point Dave makes. On the enricher (choke) post, the part the sticks through the choke housing, there is a tiny dimple on the top of the post (can be seen without removing the chock housing). Make sure that that little dimple is on the same side as the 'tombstone' of the housing. If not, the choke will never be completely off.

Also, do one carb at a time, as several of the carb parts are 'handed' so to speak (left handed, right handed, etc.). Hope this helps. I just went through it too.

I like to use a muffin pan when I'm working on carbs. It allows me to put all the little screws in separate spots as I remove each assembly.

[20774]

$8! I made one in about 5 minutes in my garage, 4 of which was looking around for an appropriately sized bolt.

Just make sure that you use a hardened bolt for this tool. If it is of the soft variety, as soon as you use it to pop the rotor, it'll bend inside the nose of the crankshaft and that will ruin your day.

Joe "Cuda" posted a tech tip on the Airheads website on how to make one of these. It's simple...follow his directions.

http://www.airheads.org/content/view/194/98/

[kbasa]

Just make sure that you use a hardened bolt for this tool. If it is of the soft variety, as soon as you use it to pop the rotor, it'll bend inside the nose of the crankshaft and that will ruin your day.

Joe "Cuda" posted a tech tip on the Airheads website on how to make one of these. It's simple...follow his directions.

http://www.airheads.org/content/view/194/98/

:thumb

[DWr100s]

Well that's what I get for showing initiative eh? Ok fine.

As always, great advice on how-to and the technical details (dimples, who knew).

I will definitely do the carbs one at a time, because I know it can run on one carb (it did once almost all the way home from the top of a mountain at Los Padres Natnl Park). And that will double my gas mileage right? Kidding.

Tech day Sat the 26th, I'm there, not sure I'll be trying any onsite repair processes but just in case I do, I'll bring parts and tools for any planned attempts. Thanks much for this heads up and invite, how cool!

I like the muffin pan idea. I'm fastidious when taking things apart - plenty of notes, lables and photographs. Learned that the hard way on my Honda CB450 DOHC back in '70. It never ran quite the same.

Thanks all!

dw

[88bmwJeff]

$8! I made one in about 5 minutes in my garage, 4 of which was looking around for an appropriately sized bolt. :ha

I used an old eye bolt, cutting it to the appropriate length by measuring it against the rotor bolt. I took a deep breath, remembered I had a magnetic retriever and popped the cut down bolt in the hole. I screwed the rotor bolt in about a half dozen turns and the rotor popped right off. :D

The little tool now lives in my tool roll.

I know many people make this tool, but I felt it wasn't worth my effort to save $10. I'd rather spend that time out riding. And yes, it's a very expensive tool when figure it's basically just a bolt.