'02 1150RT engine output shaft/clutch hub failure

[OfficerImpersonator]

My 2002 RTP with 32209 miles on the odometer experienced a probable engine output shaft/clutch hub failure - at least that's my guess and the guess of the tech at the dealer upon starting the bike and trying to put her in gear. Tomorrow they'll tear it apart for a definitive assessment of what went wrong.

This preliminary diagnosis comes at a steep price:

$843.91 for parts
$1260.00 for labor
$180.00 to remove and reinstall the crash bars
+ 9% tax for a grand total of approximately $2600.00

According to the tech, if this is indeed the problem, I'll need a new input shaft, clutch hub, main bearings, seals, etc. It's also possible that the workings within the transmission itself have been damaged.

Simply swapping in a used tranny is problematic as it's an RT-P, with an extra short 1st gear. And I'm not sure I want a used tranny from what will almost certainly have to be a police bike. What guarantee is there that a used transmission won't have the same defect?

From what I understand, this is a well-known and quite-common failure for this model/year, yet there is no recall or TSB information regarding this issue. I am unable to locate any manufacturer-recommend service of the output shaft/clutch hub interface, so what causes this failure if not a metallurgy or manufacturing process failure?

Is $2600 a fair price for this work?

Do I have any shot at getting BMW to help with some of the costs here? Sure, I'm out of warranty, but this shouldn't happen on a bike with only 32,000 miles on the clock. It's never been in police service, and I don't think I overtax the bike (I ain't no squid).

I need some consolation, commiseration, sympathy, and to set up a charitable fund to help defray the costs of repairing my beloved bike :cry
http://www.dvandkq.net/images/20070929-009.jpg

[torags]

I paid $2,000. Mine was a result of a misaligned trans/motor, a manufacturers defect that all BMW techs don't know about.

But BMW does.

I got $500 back, probably the because I frequent my dealer for service. I was out of warranty (26K mi).

[BubbaZanetti]

i'd say try what you can with NA, sometimes i hear of miraculous things happening, other times, nothing.

but why not remove the crash bars yourself? FWIW, i don't know much about this particular model and it may not be practical. i hate paying the dealer to do anything that is basic disassembly/reassembly work.

i'd also guess by "engine output shaft/clutch hub" failure you mean "transmission input shaft/clutch hub failure". IMHO, everything except replacing the transmission input shaft is doable by an average backyard mechanic. if you can remove the transmission and send it to an expert (and there is at least one who posts here) you can save yourself some serious cash. but i'd say argue with NA first.

sorry for all the acronyms BTW, hahhaha

[OfficerImpersonator]

Doesn't the MOA have a manufacturer's liason or some similarly-titled ombudsman who at least knows what tree to bark up at BMW Motorrad NA?

I'm trying to be diplomatic with my dealer, but that's a lot of dough to me. It's a third of what I paid for the bike 10 months ago. The prior owner bought it on consignment from this dealer two years ago when it had approx. 18,000 miles on it. I bought it at 23,750 and have put almost 10,000 miles on her in 10 months. The original owner bought her new from a dealer in Idaho and proceeded to add every farkle imaginable and available.

To replace this bike with a new RT-P would likely approach $30k., so obviously I'm interested in repairing the bike I own free and clear.

So - does anyone know who I contact within the MOA to get a query/plea started?

[awagnon]

I wouldn't expect MOA to help you with BMW of NA. You're on your own here. I have suggested in a number of posts that the MOA have a "meeting" or "dialog" with BMWNA about the spline failure issue. If for no other reason than to get some real information about how often this happens. It seems extremely common on these boards, but this is a select population. I think the MOA should pressure BMW to extend the warranty on the splines. Other brands of bikes have had more serious problems taken care of with extending the warranty under pressure from owners' organizations.

If you are average mechanically, you can do most of the work yourself. My splines on my 2002 RT died at 43,000 miles. I took the tranny off the bike and had a shop replace the input shaft and all the seals. I replaced the clutch disk and put the bike back together. Total cost, about $850 for the repair. There is a good video and I have a procedure checklist for the job, but it may not be the same on the RTP. The biggest problem is trying to figure out the root cause of the failure. I'm not sure anyone knows for certain whether it is really an alignment problem, poor metallurgy, poor lubrication, poor design ( the input shaft is actually too short ), or what. It will probably fail again unless the cause is found.

[kbasa]

Doesn't the MOA have a manufacturer's liason or some similarly-titled ombudsman who at least knows what tree to bark up at BMW Motorrad NA?

I'm trying to be diplomatic with my dealer, but that's a lot of dough to me. It's a third of what I paid for the bike 10 months ago. The prior owner bought it on consignment from this dealer two years ago when it had approx. 18,000 miles on it. I bought it at 23,750 and have put almost 10,000 miles on her in 10 months. The original owner bought her new from a dealer in Idaho and proceeded to add every farkle imaginable and available.

To replace this bike with a new RT-P would likely approach $30k., so obviously I'm interested in repairing the bike I own free and clear.

So - does anyone know who I contact within the MOA to get a query/plea started?

Paul Johnson. He's on the road right now, but try sending him an email or reaching him via telephone. He's listed in the front of ON.

[GSAddict]

Sadly a common problem with some 1150's
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207014
I got pissed off and had a longer and harder input shaft custom made. The 6 speed splines do not project into the clutch hub far enough. See pages 10 & 11
I was going to sell them but because of the high price I could not get an order together for 10. My prototype is is running great and I plan an inspection next winter. My bike has almost 100,000 miles on it and is on its 3rd shaft. (the upgraded one)
PM me with your phone number and I can fill you in with lots more. The job is not all that hard but certainly tedious.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Paul Johnson. He's on the road right now, but try sending him an email or reaching him via telephone. He's listed in the front of ON.

Thanks Dave!

[OfficerImpersonator]

Final diagnosis:

Clutch input shaft failure: $2272

Pivot bearing play in final drive: $113

Worn bearing in side stand: $84

Rear shock reservoir not working - replace rear shock: $765

Right fork seal leaking: $470

$3704 parts/labor
$333 tax
$4037.36 total estimate

[Motor31]

Wow, $4K repair bill! :(

How much did you pay for the bike to begin with?

[OfficerImpersonator]

Wow, $4K repair bill! :(

How much did you pay for the bike to begin with?

Twice that. :cry

[bikerfish1100]

a couple of notes-
1) if you go to replace the pivot bearing (easy enough to do on your own, and has no real job connection to the trans/output job), DO NOT replace with BMW needle bearings; rather, go with the bronze oilite bushing from Rubber Chicken Racing Garage. That is supposed to be a lifetime bushing, rather than a 20K mile set of bearings. Well worth the extra cost (about $120, so if you do it yourself, it's the same cost as having your dealer do it with the inappropriate BMW bearings).
2) rather than replacing the stock BMW shock for $700 something, get a Wilbers or Ohlins- also very much worth the extra dinero.
3) A freaking fork seal replacement for $470 !!!That's a $25 part, and can be done in about 1 hour, max (a least it was on my R11S), once the fairing is off. Get them down on that one, or DIY!- the fairing is already off for the trans job, so they have no reason (other than they want your money more than they think you do) to double charge for that labor. (sheet, that one would piss me off BIG time if they tried to gouge me like that!!)
4) i'll bet the worn sidestand bearing is a simple DIY job as well (but i haven't been there to do it myself, so i don't know for sure).

[OfficerImpersonator]

a couple of notes-
1) if you go to replace the pivot bearing (easy enough to do on your own, and has no real job connection to the trans/output job), DO NOT replace with BMW needle bearings; rather, go with the bronze oilite bushing from Rubber Chicken Racing Garage. That is supposed to be a lifetime bushing, rather than a 20K mile set of bearings. Well worth the extra cost (about $120, so if you do it yourself, it's the same cost as having your dealer do it with the inappropriate BMW bearings).
2) rather than replacing the stock BMW shock for $700 something, get a Wilbers or Ohlins- also very much worth the extra dinero.
3) A freaking fork seal replacement for $470 !!!That's a $25 part, and can be done in about 1 hour, max (a least it was on my R11S), once the fairing is off. Get them down on that one, or DIY!- the fairing is already off for the trans job, so they have no reason (other than they want your money more than they think you do) to double charge for that labor. (sheet, that one would piss me off BIG time if they tried to gouge me like that!!)
4) i'll bet the worn sidestand bearing is a simple DIY job as well (but i haven't been there to do it myself, so i don't know for sure).

I know nothing about fork seals, but it still sounded a bit unusual to me. And why service the right but not the left seal? Shouldn't both be done at the same time?

Yes - I'm sure I can do the side stand bushing replacement - and I'm sure I can do the pivot bearing replacement, but those are small numbers. If the bike is going to be torn apart when the tranny is pulled off the engine, they might as well do it then. I will definitely inquire as to what I'm getting for $470 worth of fork seal repair.

I'd love to install an Ohlins - but IIRC they were four figures just for the part. Not sure I have the budget to go much higher than $4k this particular instance!

[Kev95GS]

Hate to hear about your bike.

I just replaced the fork seals on my GS. The right one was leaking at 78K.
It is pretty straight forward since there are no springs in the tubes. If you have a repair manual you'll be in business. I spent about $50 and a Saturday afternoon.
You can get the BMW repair manual on line for free at Repair manual club (http://www.repairmanualclub.com/index.php)

I'm with Bikerfish on the pivot bearing too. Go with the bushings. Paul Glaves did an article in ON a few months ago. Walks right through the whole thing.

If your only replacing the rear shock on the bike Ohlins or Wilbers won't be over $1k. I put on a front and rear, Wilbers :thumb ,and it was $1,200 for the pair.
Either ones are rebuildable too. :clap

Good luck!

Kevin

[bikerfish1100]

I know nothing about fork seals, but it still sounded a bit unusual to me. And why service the right but not the left seal? Shouldn't both be done at the same time?

Yes - I'm sure I can do the side stand bushing replacement - and I'm sure I can do the pivot bearing replacement, but those are small numbers. If the bike is going to be torn apart when the tranny is pulled off the engine, they might as well do it then. I will definitely inquire as to what I'm getting for $470 worth of fork seal repair.

I'd love to install an Ohlins - but IIRC they were four figures just for the part. Not sure I have the budget to go much higher than $4k this particular instance!

the fork seals occassionally leak (i had to do my left one 2x in last 10K miles due to a couple of hard pothole type hits, but right one is still original). If they're holding fine, there's no need to replace them, as it is not really considered to be a "wearing" part like on most bikes.

As far as the cost of Ollies or Wilbers; yes, you'll pay more up front, but they will save you $ in the long run, and give you far superior performance forever and ever. Absolutely worth the $. If you do your own fork seals, shock installation and pivot bearing, the money you save there will pay for the shock upgrade (remember, you're not paying $1K + for the upgraded shock, you're only paying for the difference between the overpriced stocker and the upgrade model!!!- now is the perfect time to do it)

[OfficerImpersonator]

the fork seals occassionally leak (i had to do my left one 2x in last 10K miles due to a couple of hard pothole type hits, but right one is still original). If they're holding fine, there's no need to replace them, as it is not really considered to be a "wearing" part like on most bikes.

As far as teh cost of Ollies or Wilbers; yes, you'll pay more up front, but they will save you $ in the long run, and give you far superior performance forever and ever. Absolutely worth the $, and if you do your own fork seals, shock installation and pivot bearing, the money you save there will pay for the shock upgrade (remember, you're not paying $1K + for the upgraded shock, you're only paying for the difference between the overpriced stocker and the upgrade model!!!- now is the perfect time to do it)

I'm accepting donations to pay for your suggestions :)

I need a :drink

[OfficerImpersonator]

On the phone with "Dan" from BMW NA as I type this. He's taking down all my information. He's going to follow-up with the dealer and confirm what I'm telling him is the straight poop, and he can't make any promises - but... he'll be in touch and let me know what BMW NA is able to do for me.

So, provisionally, I'll include a :clap for BMW NA for getting on top of this right away!!!

[BubbaZanetti]

whatever you do, don't let them replace that shock with an OEM replacement. at the very least, you can find a slightly used RT rear shock from someone who upgraded on ebay or something. it's 2 bolts to swap it out at a potential savings of around 500 dollars.

i hate to preach the "do it yourself" thing if that's not your game, but 700 bucks or so for a shock that is only "ok" to begin with and will wear out in 40K at best just isn't rational

[OfficerImpersonator]

whatever you do, don't let them replace that shock with an OEM replacement. at the very least, you can find a slightly used RT rear shock from someone who upgraded on ebay or something. it's 2 bolts to swap it out at a potential savings of around 500 dollars.

i hate to preach the "do it yourself" thing if that's not your game, but 700 bucks or so for a shock that is only "ok" to begin with and will wear out in 40K at best just isn't rational

So which one should I consider? Just for fun I browse the Ohlins web site and I think I see four different models for my bike alone. Obviously I need to talk to a tech at the dealer, but I have no idea what I'm talking about/looking for.

[Motorcyclist]

On the phone with "Dan" from BMW NA as I type this. He's taking down all my information. He's going to follow-up with the dealer and confirm what I'm telling him is the straight poop, and he can't make any promises - but... he'll be in touch and let me know what BMW NA is able to do for me.

So, provisionally, I'll include a :clap for BMW NA for getting on top of this right away!!!

I'll hope for the best for you, but don't count your chickens before they're hatched. My 2004 R1150R had a very similar input shaft/transmission bearing failure at just over 3 years old and 55,0000 miles. My BMW dealer diagnosed the failure and talked to the mfgr. rep. about goodwill, etc. BMW was quick to point out that I should go pound sand. I called the customer service folks to inquire on my own, and they took down all my info, called back a week later and reiterated their invitation for me to pound more sand. I'm an adult (41), ridden BMW's for over 200K miles (also rode as a passenger for over 100K), MSF Instructor, and used the bike primarily for sport touring. I got away relatively cheap compared to you at $1,200.

As you said, these parts shouldn't fail until well into the 6 digit odometer readings. Should they fail prematurely, the company should bear some responsibility to make it right, particularly when this is not an uncommon issue. I've filed against BMW in small claims court, so we'll see how that goes. I'm secretly hoping they kick it to superior court, because I'd like to be the first to find out the scope of driveline component failures through the discovery process. A company that makes a "premium product" shouldn't be bashful about standing behind it when things go wrong. They certainly aren't bashful about charging you up front for the priviledge of ownership.

Given BMW's less than enthusiastic support, I recently bought a new Triumph Tiger. Chalk me up as another long time owner who has voted with his feet and wallet.

[OfficerImpersonator]

I'll hope for the best for you, but don't count your chickens before they're hatched. My 2004 R1150R had a very similar input shaft/transmission bearing failure at just over 3 years old and 55,0000 miles. My BMW dealer diagnosed the failure and talked to the mfgr. rep. about goodwill, etc. BMW was quick to point out that I should go pound sand. I called the customer service folks to inquire on my own, and they took down all my info, called back a week later and reiterated their invitation for me to pound more sand. I'm an adult (41), ridden BMW's for over 200K miles (also rode as a passenger for over 100K), MSF Instructor, and used the bike primarily for sport touring. I got away relatively cheap compared to you at $1,200.

As you said, these parts shouldn't fail until well into the 6 digit odometer readings. Should they fail prematurely, the company should bear some responsibility to make it right, particularly when this is not an uncommon issue. I've filed against BMW in small claims court, so we'll see how that goes. I'm secretly hoping they kick it to superior court, because I'd like to be the first to find out the scope of driveline component failures through the discovery process. A company that makes a "premium product" shouldn't be bashful about standing behind it when things go wrong. They certainly aren't bashful about charging you up front for the priviledge of ownership.

Given BMW's less than enthusiastic support, I recently bought a new Triumph Tiger. Chalk me up as another long time owner who has voted with his feet and wallet.

I appreciate your comments and will keep them in mind. I agree completely with your asessment of the problem. Here's my take:

BMW obviously realizes they have a defective product on their hands. It seems as if there is an active and conscious effort on their part to pretend this isn't the case because admitting there is a defect opens them up to admitting it needs to be addressed which leads to everyone with an affected bike running to their dealers for $3000 worth of free parts and labor on BMW's corporate tab.

Middle management suck-ups don't get promoted for making a decision that the company should eat $3000 times however many bikes were made with the defective part and/or design.

So, without a formal recall or any mention in a TSB, we get to deal with these failures on a case by case basis. At least that's my theory at this point.

[awagnon]

I've filed against BMW in small claims court, so we'll see how that goes. I'm secretly hoping they kick it to superior court, because I'd like to be the first to find out the scope of driveline component failures through the discovery process.

:clap :clap :clap

Three cheers for you. I wish you well in your suit.

By the way, if you need some ammunition for your case, you can print out all the driveline failures posted here:

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1&Number=443693&page=1&fpart=1

[OfficerImpersonator]

:clap :clap :clap

Three cheers for you. I wish you well in your suit.

By the way, if you need some ammunition for your case, you can print out all the driveline failures posted here:

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1&Number=443693&page=1&fpart=1

You'll notice that my failure is the most recent posting to the list - but thanks for the suggestion!

I'm working under the assumption that BMW NA is well-aware of this problem - they just keep it quiet so they don't have to pay to replace everyone's defective equipment. If I do run into resistance, I'm certainly planning on pointing out that the problem is well documented within the owner's community.

[GSAddict]

You'll notice that my failure is the most recent posting to the list - but thanks for the suggestion!

I'm working under the assumption that BMW NA is well-aware of this problem - they just keep it quiet so they don't have to pay to replace everyone's defective equipment. If I do run into resistance, I'm certainly planning on pointing out that the problem is well documented within the owner's community.

Good luck to you, I wish you every success. In Canada when I had problems this was not showing up as most bikes did not have near the mileage mine had, which was just out of the 3 year warranty. BMW did not acknowledge there was any problem and I was left to fix the machine myself. If I did not love the machine so much I would have gotten rid of it.

[torags]

I believe everyone who has this problem and don't get some satisfaction should sue.

BMW NA has a track record of turning away from the problem.

I was if they didn't show good faith.

I was going to call the tech as a witness,and the dealer corp would probably need an attorney to fight an issue they know exists. Atty costs & tech wages are good incentives to act like gentlemen.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Just got off the phone with the service manager at the local dealer.

I authorized repair of the clutch input shaft failure for $2272.

I authorized replacement of the paralever pivot bushing with the JL bushing upgrade kit - but they've never heard of it, don't know how bushings without bearings can replace bushings with bearings - but will look into it on the web.

I told them to hold off on replacing the rear shock until I can obtain an aftermarket Hyperpro unit.

I told them to forget replacing my right front fork seal for $470. I asked why it was so expensive and was told that because my bike is an RT-P replacing the front fork seal is a more involved job with four to five hours of labor. Does anyone know if this is true? I don't know of any differences to the front of the bike on an RT-P vs. an RT. Have any other RT-P owners dealt with this? She said she'd not recommend putting this off, and she wouldn't recommend not doing both the right and left forks at the same time. Said doing both would run around $650. Anyone have any information to the contrary?

I'm going to replace the side stand bushing myself.

Now my repair estimate is under $3000, much more in line with my budget than the $4200 bill I was facing yesterday.

Anything that BMW NA does to help defray these costs will be appreciated. No word from them since Wednesday, but perhaps they want to hear from the technician and have an opportunity to view the defective parts before reaching any conclusions or making any decisions...

The worst news was that they won't give me a service loaner. Service loaners are only handed out in one-day increments, so I could have a bike for one day, but I'd have to return it the next. Two weeks without a motorcycle will have severe mental health repercussions for me and my family!

[bmwmick]

I told them to forget replacing my right front fork seal for $470. I asked why it was so expensive and was told that because my bike is an RT-P replacing the front fork seal is a more involved job with four to five hours of labor. Does anyone know if this is true? I don't know of any differences to the front of the bike on an RT-P vs. an RT. Have any other RT-P owners dealt with this? She said she'd not recommend putting this off, and she wouldn't recommend not doing both the right and left forks at the same time. Said doing both would run around $650. Anyone have any information to the contrary?

I believe they have to remove the crash bars to get the fairing off for the clutch replacement. Why would they charge you twice? :banghead

The fork seals can be replaced without removing any plastic. Just unbolt everything from the fork sliders and drop them down out of the upper plate. Not really difficult, just follow the manual and you'll be OK. Don't forget to bleed the forks. You might find this thread helpful:
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/Oilhead%20Fork%20Seal%20Replacement.html

[nigelday4459]

hi,:brow
Just saw you post about the output failure which I'm sure happened awhile back. Bummer for the Beemer!.
Still, I'm glad to see other rt-p's on the road. Mines a 2002 that was apparently a state patrol bike although I've never seen them over the east side of the cascades.
I'm looking forward to some serious road time this year and will be at Menlo, as well as the Deschutes campout. The UNRALLY in JohnDay OR, is the first rally for me. Hope to cross paths!:wave

Nigel.

[jdiaz]

Why are you going to the dealer? Mick Vallentine surely has to be more cost-competitive than this?

Why are you fixing the engine? Buy a used one for $800 from beemerboneyard.com

I agree with bmwmick.....there seems to be some double-dipping on the estimate.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Why are you going to the dealer? Mick Vallentine surely has to be more cost-competitive than this?

Why are you fixing the engine? Buy a used one for $800 from beemerboneyard.com

I agree with bmwmick.....there seems to be some double-dipping on the estimate.

If I have Mick do the work, I think I'll have zero chance of getting BMW NA to help me with the costs associated with the defective input shaft, under the theory that the dealer has better communication with BMW NA than does an independent wrench.

Secondly, I am saving many of the things Ride West found for Mick to do - fork seals, for example. Ride West has yet to provide me with a satisfactory explanation as to why they want to charge $450 to replace one leaking fork seal. "Because your bike is an RT-P" is an insufficient answer considering all the police-specific parts are already off the bike in preparation for the repairs to the input shaft.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with my engine - or my transmission, for that matter. It's the clutch input shaft that failed. My engine is perfect. Sure, I can spend $X for a used engine, but the majority of my costs here are labor. 12 hours of labor to replace the input shaft vs. 12 hours of labor to swap out the engine and tranny is still 12 hours of labor and still costs ~$1000.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Ride West BMW emailed me to let me know my bike should be ready for pick-up on Thursday - 16 days after I dropped her off.

I CANNOT WAIT TO HAVE MY BIKE BACK!!! :heart :clap :thumb :dance :twirl :bliss

[2BikeMike]

Careful now, don't wear it out!:D

[Motorcyclist]

Ride West BMW emailed me to let me know my bike should be ready for pick-up on Thursday - 16 days after I dropped her off.

I CANNOT WAIT TO HAVE MY BIKE BACK!!! :heart :clap :thumb :dance :twirl :bliss


Congrats, and safe riding. Let us know what BMWNA finally decides.

[OfficerImpersonator]

My Hyperpro rear shock was delivered to the dealership yesterday morning at 9:13 AM (Thank God for UPS tracking numbers!)

I just called for an estimate of when my bike will be ready for pick-up tomorrow so that I can arrange a ride to the dealer. The guy who answers the phone in the service department puts me on hold to go talk to the tech. He comes back on to tell me that they haven't received the shock yet. :banghead

I tell them that yes, in fact they have received the part, that it was received at 9:13 AM, and that it was signed for someone at the front desk named "Busch". :deal He didn't know if there was anyone there with that name. WTF is going on here?

They are going to go look for the $1000 part and get back to me with an updated delivery time IF they can find the shock.

Does anyone have a prescription for Valium they can loan me?

[GSAddict]

Welcome to the world of ClusterF__k!
Go thru it all the time:bottle
Same outfit shipped 4 exhaust guides to me and 1 was an intake guide......:doh
See my quote at the bottom:deal
I wish you better luck from here on in.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Loosing the shock in their own building has delayed delivery by 24 hours. Now I don't get my bike until Friday, when I'll have the privilege of writing them a $3000+ check.

I think I'm going to deduct a couple of hundred bucks from my bill as a charge for "loss of use" or "motorcycle rental" for their incompetence.

And I'll suggest to everyone here and on the other m/c oriented boards to which I post take their business elsewhere.

[GSAddict]

[QUOTE=OfficerImpersonator;325224
And I'll suggest to everyone here and on the other m/c oriented boards to which I post take their business elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

Wait until you get (hopefully) some satisfaction from BMW NA

[OfficerImpersonator]

Wait until you get (hopefully) some satisfaction from BMW NA

Just got a call from "Dan" at BMW NA. They have been in contact with the dealer regarding my failure. They "are not able to offer me any assistance at this time" because of the following reasons:

1. The bike is out of warranty.
2. I am not the original owner.
3. I purchased the bike outside of the warranty period.
4. I do not have all of my service performed at the dealer.

:mad

I'm well along in the process of drafting my demand letter to BMW NA. Crucial to my demand letter will be print-outs from this forum as well as the BMWSportTouring web forum quantifying the number of transmission input shaft/clutch hub failures and pointing out that this failure is common, is not due to improper operation by the owner, and is in fact the result of a product manufacturing/metallurgical defect.

After that gets summarily rejected by the behemoth multinational corporation, I don't know what I'll do. At this point, small claims court is a definite possibility - and perhaps my only avenue of recourse.

I am certainly not feeling very charitable towards the manufacturer of my motorcycle at this point in time.

[GSAddict]

Just got a call from "Dan" at BMW NA. They have been in contact with the dealer regarding my failure. They "are not able to offer me any assistance at this time" because of the following reasons:

1. The bike is out of warranty.
2. I am not the original owner.
3. I purchased the bike outside of the warranty period.
4. I do not have all of my service performed at the dealer.

:mad

I'm well along in the process of drafting my demand letter to BMW NA. Crucial to my demand letter will be print-outs from this forum as well as the BMWSportTouring web forum quantifying the number of transmission input shaft/clutch hub failures and pointing out that this failure is common, is not due to improper operation by the owner, and is in fact the result of a product manufacturing/metallurgical defect.

After that gets summarily rejected by the behemoth multinational corporation, I don't know what I'll do. At this point, small claims court is a definite possibility - and perhaps my only avenue of recourse.

I am certainly not feeling very charitable towards the manufacturer of my motorcycle at this point in time.

I am not surprised....after all 'Zere ist no problem':bolt

Regarding point #4 - The Dealers & BMW do not recommend spline lubes for Oilheads in the first place so how the hell would it make any difference where it was serviced??????
A design flaw being swept under the carpet.:nod
Like I said before - They are just lucky I happen to be stupidly in love with mine.

[Motor31]

I'm truly sorry to see that they gave you that answer. I'm not terribly surprised as that would have involved a fairly significant amount of money. I wish you luck with the situation. I am wondering if my RT will also fall victim to the same or similar situation and very afraid it will.

[Motorcyclist]

Just got a call from "Dan" at BMW NA. They have been in contact with the dealer regarding my failure. They "are not able to offer me any assistance at this time" because of the following reasons:

1. The bike is out of warranty.
2. I am not the original owner.
3. I purchased the bike outside of the warranty period.
4. I do not have all of my service performed at the dealer.

:mad

I'm well along in the process of drafting my demand letter to BMW NA. Crucial to my demand letter will be print-outs from this forum as well as the BMWSportTouring web forum quantifying the number of transmission input shaft/clutch hub failures and pointing out that this failure is common, is not due to improper operation by the owner, and is in fact the result of a product manufacturing/metallurgical defect.

After that gets summarily rejected by the behemoth multinational corporation, I don't know what I'll do. At this point, small claims court is a definite possibility - and perhaps my only avenue of recourse.

I am certainly not feeling very charitable towards the manufacturer of my motorcycle at this point in time.

Very sorry to hear that you received the same answer as I did. I'd encourage you to pursue the issue as far as you feel necessary. The more people that let them know there is a problem out there and voice their dissatisfaction with BMW's position, the more chance something will change for anyone in the future who suffers a simialr failure. BMW needs to understand that charging premium prices for a "premium" product means that they need to stand behind it with premium service.

Again, sorry to hear you got the shaft (literally). Please contact me if you want any advice.

BMW makes some great bikes, it is a shame their quality control is not up to the standard of the designers/engineers.

George

[OfficerImpersonator]

I was told yesterday morning by Victoria, the Service Manager at Ride West, that my bike would be ready by the end of the day yesterday or first thing this morning. I told her that this morning would be fine.

I just called to find out if it was ready for me to pick up. Someone named "Ben" answered the phone and said he'd go look into it. He came back on the line and said they were working hard to have it ready by the end of the day TODAY. I told him this was freaking rediculous. I threatened to drive my pick-up truck over now, throw the parts in the back, and drive away without paying them a penny. They have had my bike since April 22nd and it's far past time for this job to be completed. He asked if I'd like to speak to the service manager, and I said yes.

Victoria came on the line and I told her I wanted my bike back. She said that when they ordered parts to replace my transmission input shaft they did not order a transmission input shaft shim, so they had to "emergency order it" yesterday and it just came in this morning. Why wouldn't you order the shim when you know you're replacing the input shaft? She started a song and dance about how complicated BMW motorcycles are and about how complex this repair job is. I asked her if it was any more complicated than a car? Dead silence on the other end of the line.

Now she says it will be ready by noon. Somehow, in 30 seconds, my job suddenly requires 6 fewer hours to complete. I wonder if my final bill will reflect this? I asked her if delivery at noon was a guess or a promise. She said I should call at noon to get an update on the status. I'm tempted to show up at noon, fully dressed to ride, and demand my bike. If they can't provide me my bike, they can provide me a 2008 R1200RT demo until they are done with my bike.

I am completely done with Ride West BMW. Their lack of communication, professionalism, and refusal to take ownership of their mistakes is completely unacceptable. "BMW - a premium bike at a premium price with a minimum of customer service".

[GSAddict]

I was told yesterday morning by Victoria, the Service Manager at Ride West, that my bike would be ready by the end of the day yesterday or first thing this morning. I told her that this morning would be fine.

I just called to find out if it was ready for me to pick up. Someone named "Ben" answered the phone and said he'd go look into it. He came back on the line and said they were working hard to have it ready by the end of the day TODAY. I told him this was freaking rediculous. I threatened to drive my pick-up truck over now, throw the parts in the back, and drive away without paying them a penny. They have had my bike since April 22nd and it's far past time for this job to be completed. He asked if I'd like to speak to the service manager, and I said yes.

Victoria came on the line and I told her I wanted my bike back. She said that when they ordered parts to replace my transmission input shaft they did not order a transmission input shaft shim, so they had to "emergency order it" yesterday and it just came in this morning. Why wouldn't you order the shim when you know you're replacing the input shaft? She started a song and dance about how complicated BMW motorcycles are and about how complex this repair job is. I asked her if it was any more complicated than a car? Dead silence on the other end of the line.

Now she says it will be ready by noon. I asked her if that was a guess or a promise. She said I should call at noon to get an update on the status. I'm tempted to show up at noon, fully dressed to ride, and demand my bike. If they can't provide me my bike, they can provide me a 2008 R1200RT demo until they are done with my bike.

I am completely done with Ride West BMW. Their lack of communication, professionalism, and ownership of their mistakes is completely unacceptable.

I caution you at this point to back off. If they are only putting the shim in today that means a lot of work is still ahead (I know because I have done this job personally) Rushing them at this point will only increase the chance of an assembly mistake/oversight which will drag things out longer and give you more ulcers.
I know it hard to do but take a valium and cool down. Then politely and firmly request a loaner bike for the weekend.
My .02 worth.
Good luck my friend.

[OfficerImpersonator]

I caution you at this point to back off. If they are only putting the shim in today that means a lot of work is still ahead (I know because I have done this job personally) Rushing them at this point will only increase the chance of an assembly mistake/oversight which will drag things out longer and give you more ulcers.
I know it hard to do but take a valium and cool down. Then politely and firmly request a loaner bike for the weekend.
My .02 worth.
Good luck my friend.

I have no problem with unforeseen delays due to problems under or beyond their control. All I ask is that they be proactive about keeping me informed. Every delay and mistake has been discovered only when I call to see if they are doing what they say they will be doing when they say they will be doing it.

I understand sh*t happens. That's fine. I'm a very understanding and accepting person. All I ask is that they keep me updated and informed as to what's going on. I don't care if it requires embarrassing admissions like "we lost your $1000 shock somewhere in our building". Just keep me in the loop is all I ask - and they have gone out of there way at every opportunity to keep me in the dark, to give inconsistent answers, and to give answers that defy logic (i.e. we can go from "we need the shim" to "your bike is ready for delivery" in two and a half hours. It's physically impossible for them to do the work in that time-frame, so why would they say they can do it?

Customer service begins with honesty and forthrightness. Lie to me or, just the same, withhold the truth, and you've lost me as a customer.

[GSAddict]

I have no problem with unforeseen delays due to problems under or beyond their control. All I ask is that they be proactive about keeping me informed. Every delay and mistake has been discovered only when I call to see if they are doing what they say they will be doing when they say they will be doing it.

I understand sh*t happens. That's fine. I'm a very understanding and accepting person. All I ask is that they keep me updated and informed as to what's going on. I don't care if it requires embarrassing admissions like "we lost your $1000 shock somewhere in our building". Just keep me in the loop is all I ask - and they have gone out of there way at every opportunity to keep me in the dark, to give inconsistent answers, and to give answers that defy logic (i.e. we can go from "we need the shim" to "your bike is ready for delivery" in two and a half hours. It's physically impossible for them to do the work in that time-frame, so why would they say they can do it?

Customer service begins with honesty and forthrightness. Lie to me or, just the same, withhold the truth, and you've lost me as a customer.


I totally agree with you and yes - don't go back there again but meanwhile just get the bike fixed right.
The sad part is most customer service people do not understand what the job really entails and from that comes the misinformation. BS the client and he will go away for another 4 hours and then someone else can take the call.
I have been through so much of this ****e myself (and need to take a ferry to get to the dealers) I end up doing all the work myself. I am fortunate to have the tools and skill to be able to do so and feel sorry for people that have to rely on dealerships that provide poor service and scheduling.
This duck farts in the same shallow water everywhere - a sign of the times.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Bike is done and ready for pick-up. Wife is on her way to pick me up at work and drive me to the dealer.

I'll post a PDF of the invoice as soon as I'm back at work. Should make for interesting reading!

Trying to figure out how they can estimate 12 hours of labor for the input shaft replacement job alone, tell me at 9:30 this morning that they just got the shim and are beginning to reassemble the input shaft, and then 2 hours and 10 minutes later the job is done?!? Does that mean it takes 9.5 hours to take it apart?

Soon it will all be over and my rolling therapy (a.k.a my bike) will lull my anger away.

[bikerfish1100]

(i suspect that the shim may have actually arrived yesterday.) probable that they put more than one person onto the reassembly procedure. you still pay for the same man-hours, they just don't take up as much clock time.

[GSAddict]

(i suspect that the shim may have actually arrived yesterday.) probable that they put more than one person onto the reassembly procedure. you still pay for the same man-hours, they just don't take up as much clock time.

A reasonably good guess, I would agree

[OfficerImpersonator]

Amazingly, the job came in under what I had budgeted! I'll be slinging back a couple tonight in celebration of having my bike back and the work having been performed under -budget :drink

[chrisZ]

Very close to the original quote. You would think they did this work a few times. :stick

This preliminary diagnosis comes at a steep price:

$843.91 for parts
$1260.00 for labor
$180.00 to remove and reinstall the crash bars
+ 9% tax for a grand total of approximately $2600.00

[OfficerImpersonator]

Very close to the original quote. You would think they did this work a few times. :stick

This preliminary diagnosis comes at a steep price:

$843.91 for parts
$1260.00 for labor
$180.00 to remove and reinstall the crash bars
+ 9% tax for a grand total of approximately $2600.00

For sure!

I thought I'd be paying a lot more than $45 to install the non-OEM Paralever pivot bushing and another $45 for the non-OEM shock, so they did better than promised in the price category. It worked out to $300 a day she was in the shop, if I include what I paid for the shock and bushing.

Course, I never planned on having to replace the Paralever pivot bearings or the rear shock - or that the stock rear shock is so inferior to what's available on the after-market I'd have to spend a pretty penny on that.

It was a crash course in major motorcycle maintenance. I'm smarter, wiser, perhaps a bit less naive, and certainly poorer. Me thinks they think all BMW owners are made of money.

So here's my report after 46 miles of riding. Now that I know what my clutch and driveline is supposed to feel like, it's safe to say that if you have some driveline lash, it might be caused by worn splines. My clutch has a much more solid connection with the engine. It's a "seat of the pants" sensation that things are a bit tighter in that department when first rolling on/rolling off the throttle.

As for the new rear shock, I never knew how pathetic the stock model was. The rear tire feels as if it's glued to the road. There is never any wheel hop, even over severe bumps and heaves in the pavement. I also notice that the rear end is a bit higher than it was before. Obviously the stock shock sagged quite a bit, and the difference is enough that I notice it in my riding posture. So I'm glad I was introduced to Klaus via this forum. He rocks! :rocker

I'm off on a ride tomorrow, so I'll do additional evaluations - er riding - tomorrow :burnout

[awagnon]

Amazingly, the job came in under what I had budgeted! I'll be slinging back a couple tonight in celebration of having my bike back and the work having been performed under -budget :drink

Looking at the invoice, it seems strange, at least to me, that they had to replace the clutch diaphram spring, clutch pressure plate and clutch housing. Typically, these are fine after a spline failure and I can't help but wonder why they were replaced.

[GSAddict]

Looking at the invoice, it seems strange, at least to me, that they had to replace the clutch diaphram spring, clutch pressure plate and clutch housing. Typically, these are fine after a spline failure and I can't help but wonder why they were replaced.

Ditto that.....I am on my originals 150,000+km, in fact the disc only had .012" wear on it - too bad the splines were hooped.
I guess it was an insurance policy (or part sales) I would ask for all the old pieces back for sure.