Unknown bike - Old? - Not BMW

[neilg]

Hey anybody know what this is? - Neil g.

[Wkoppa]

I think its a Zundapp.

I want to know what that is behind it - Moton Morini?

Most likely wrong on both counts.

Wayne Koppa

[kgadley01]

maybe a Jawa, but i'm not sure. if you can buy it cheap, do it. its a collector.

[neilg]

I'm told the bike behind the mystery bike is a Munch 007. Check out the rear wheel. - Neil g.

[37071]

Do you know whether the red bike is a 2 port single or a twin? If it is a twin - might it be an Adler?

The only bike that I can recall that has a rear wheel like the silver bike is a Munch Mamatt ($$$$$$$)

[EXR911]

Post - WWII DKW "The Little Wonder".

PT9766

[Wkoppa]

It's a Munch in the back, should have known. Rear wheel looks different than anything else. Seat is an distinctive also.

A fun book is "Beyond My Wildest Dreams" by David Manthey about his love affair with Munch Mammoths.

He delivered one to Jay Leno by laying it in the back of a station wagon and driving it from Wisconsin to the left coast.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI

[Gilly]

Hey Wayne, I was a good friend of Daves, shoot me an email sometime. WHO owns the Munch in the picture???
Gilly

[Gilly]

It just struck me now that that picture probably was taken at Daves (Dave Mantheys) place. He had built a Munch out of spare and handmade parts, I think it might be that one. Not sure about the bike the question is about, but I've been around Daves Munch's a lot, and yeah that sure looks like one!
Gilly

[Gilly]

Mmmm, possibly a Victoria? I know Dave had a Victoria Bergmeister, but I think the Bergmeister was a V Twin and this is what, a vertical twin? Looks like a single jug, but 2 pipes.

[Gilly]

NAHH I got it, it's a Puch "Twingle", guessing 1940's era, I don't think it's pre-war. Note looks like 1 jug, but 2 exhaust pipes. Am still pretty sure by the background mess and Munch that it's at Daves.
Gilly

[EXR911]

Post - WWII DKW "The Little Wonder".

PT9766

A correction to my previous post. The engine was so obviously "DKW" NZ350 from the late 1930s and WWII - when the DKW NZ350 was a German military model - that I thought it was just an early post-war carryover.

I didn't remember that the Russians stripped the DKW factory of tooling and sent it to the IZH factory back home where the bike was first produced as the girder-forked IZH350. From 1951 to 1958 a revised version with telescopic fork and the sprung frame (from the late 30's civilian DKW NZ350) was produced and sold as the IZH-49.

Which is what the mystery bike in the front of the picture is.

Further info at http://www.autogallery.org.ru/m/izh49.htm

PT9766

[EXR911]

Hey anybody know what this is? - Neil g.

The bike in the background - what can be seen of it - has the same style of seat and frame as the 1967-68 Munch-framed Indian Scout which was built on the order of the late Floyd Clymer. But the engine/gearbox unit in it is obviously not Indian Scout as there is no chain or chainguard on the right hand side.

But Clymer also looked at Horex and Velocette-engined bikes (in Italian made frames) and since the Horex parallel twin has the chain drive on the left, is the bike a Munch frame with perhaps a Horex engine? An possible alternative to the Munch Indian Scout prototype?

PT9766

[Gilly]

The other guy is probably right on the main topic bike in the forground.

On the Munch you have to remember these were all hand built and no two are identical. But you are right, they usually have the squarish cover on the side with the TTS emblem, sometimes the TTS was applied as an emblem, sometimes cast into an aluminum cover, sometimes red, sometimes blue, etc.

There was only 1 Munch-Clymer Indian prototype and Dave owned it, the one in the background isn't it as that tringular cover had "Indian" printed on it.
Now as to what it is, I believe it is a "Series 1" Munch. I have a picture of one (might be the same bike in the picture) that has the triangular cover on the left side, probable the same on the right. The seat looks identical to the one on this thread. I know the one in the picture I have is a series 1 bike as it has the hand-hammered unfinished tank (dimpled looking). Might be the one Dave sold to Jay Leno, or might be the one Dave built himself.
Gilly

[Gilly]

OH PS, the Indian prototype also has a wire spoke rear wheel, not the familiar Munch rear "blade" wheels.
Gilly

[Gilly]

I found a couple pictures in Daves books that would narrow it down to Munch # 007 (as someone mentioned, although that's the serial number, not the model number). It also looks alot like serial #13 (which is actually the 2nd Munch ever built), but the pic I have of #13 has the TTS emblem on the triangular cover. #13 is the one Dave sold to Leno.
Serial #22 and 130 both have triangular covers, but not like the one in the picture on the start of this thread, a little bulkier looking, although same basic shape.
There is also a picture in the book of a Munch Dave just called "The Blue Munch", I am having a difficult time to figure out the serial number of, that has a really odd oval or racetrack shaped covers that's like none of the others I've seen.
But that's the beauty of these things, no two are identical, Munch would change things according MOSTLY to the customers whims, sometimes to Munch's own whims, he did build a few "on spec", but most were ordered. Tanks shapes changed, the seating position, MOST had dual headlights but not all, the seats were whatever the customer wanted, etc etc. These were all handbuilt bikes and each was different. Some are very similar, not not identical.

As long as I'm going on, Dave left quite a few cases of the book that he wrote. If anyone is interested in getting a book, his partner and co-author May Johnson has them and would like to start selling them. Just post an interest on this thread and I'll post the best way to go about buying one (will contact May).
Gilly

[Wkoppa]

"As long as I'm going on, Dave left quite a few cases of the book that he wrote."

Where is Dave? Did he pass away?

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI

[The_Veg]

What's the book?

[Gilly]

Yeah Dave died on March 1st from a heart attack. Obit:


http://www.wiscnews.com/pdr/obits/275379

Here is a nice article that appeared in the Portage (WI) local paper, that somewhat describes the book. I can get details on the book, I think it usually goes for $20 and is a good read for anyone with mechanical interests:


Seeking wheels in heaven by Blanche Murtagh
Has David Manthey found the answer to that question? It has been said that there is no beer or sex in that hallowed place. Are there any motorcycles?
Those who knew Dave, who died last Saturday at age 57, grieve that he should leave the place of earthly existence while in the midst of a very ordinary project, that of shoveling snow off a roof. We envisioned Dave leaving us in a blaze of bright light, an ever increasing roar of motors in the background, with a smile on his ruggedly handsome face while firmly grasping the bars of his beloved Friedel Munch motorcycle. It was his version of heaven on Earth.
I do not write this remembrance as someone totally knowledgeable of Dave, but I am moved by the scope of the life he lived. He was Portage born and remained as a resident. Dave had graduated high school with my son John. I had not seen or been aware of Dave or his life since then, until he and his life partner, May Johnson, appeared at a Writers at the Portage meeting. They wanted to let us know they had written a book that was to be released soon.
The year was 2000, and the book was titled "Beyond My Wildest Dreams." Dave readily acknowledged that he had never thought of putting down on paper the story of his life until May Johnson, who he had nicknamed "Magic Johnson," showed up and said, "We're writing a book." She was the one who dotted the "i's" and created complete sentences out of his ramblings.
The introduction in the book sets the flavor of what was written, with these words: "We're going to try our hardest not to bore you with this introduction so this is not going to be one of those two-and-a-half page long introductions ... but please excuse the poor English throughout this book since I ain't hardly had no learning when I was a young one. That's because my whole life was spent in search of the ultimate wheels, instead of conforming to what was expected of me. What you are about to read is only a small part of my quest for what became my life's dream, the Munch Mammoth. (This writer's note: the Munch Mammoth is the Cadillac of motorcycles, manufactured in Germany.) Because of this obsession, I have gone way 'beyond my wildest dreams.'"
In appraisal of the book, Paul Watts, a journalist in California, writes, "... it will make your sides ache in this true story — too crazy to be fiction — that takes American humor to a whole new dimension."
The back cover has a picture of Dave and Jay Leno, with whom he had spent some days in California, connected in their love of motorcycles and cars. Dave had also traveled to many European countries.
Judy Van Schoyck-Fritscher of Portage, who had been the proofreader, writes: "The author will tell you ... in the course of his journey from small-town Wisconsin to the bright lights and big cities of Europe and the United States. Follow the kid who nearly fainted while giving a freshman book report, as he masters the arts of public speaking and writing."
When I had mentioned at a writer's meeting that I had worn out my word-processing machine (actually knocking the "h" out of it), Dave invited me to the warehouse in which he kept the accumulation of things that he had been garnering for many years. He thought he had several word processors.
Several days later we met at the warehouse that was familiar to me as it had belonged previously to a friend who was a casket dealer, and had used the building to store the products of his profession. Its interior had assumed an entirely different image. Dave eventually found the word processors, but they appeared to be of a time in which electricity had first emerged, and were not of any possible service to me.
Dave then gave Neil and me a tour of the contents of the warehouse that was visible proof that anything, and everything, that had run on a motor and that looked old were priceless to him. There was a vast collection of old jukeboxes, as well as unusual vintage foreign made cars amidst much more "stuff."
Dave's warehouse would not have ever been a contender for the Good Housekeeping award, but that was a great part of its fascination, one that would have warranted a longer stay or return visit.
To this I add the words that your life has been an inspiration to some of us, Dave, probably not because of the path you have taken through life, but to those of us who refuse to release ourselves from self-imposed rigid restrictions while letting an unfulfilled life slip by.
Dave, I hope you have found another Friedel Munch, wherever you are, and you are letting the wind blow with great abandon through your hair, and on to your smile, as you ride on.

Blanche Murtagh is a longtime Portage resident and activist who has had many of her stories published.

Gilly

[Wkoppa]

Thanks for all of the details.

I met Dave at a International Order of Rolling Brocolli Riders Rally in Ontario. I had been out being an Ambassador of Good Will late into the night. Waking up in the morning I flung the flap back on my tent and across the trail were dual headlights of a motorcycle staring at me and I said "Holy **** it's a Munch Mammoth". At that point Dave squatted next to the bike so I could see both him and the bike from inside my tent. He had a smile on that was a mile wide.

He sold me a copy of his book and signed the inside "Thanks Wayne I love your beemer I'm on Ol No. 201 today. Stay Smooth. Dave.

It is really a fun book and you won't find another story like his.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI

[Gilly]

Thanks for the story Wayne. I went with Dave to every Broccoli Rally except the first one he went to (which was The Methane Blowout). You can see my bike in my avatar, teal silver K75S.
For anyone interested the book is $20, plus shipping I assume (will get back to May about that).

Gilly

[Wkoppa]

It may be worth the trouble to get a copy of the book to Andy Goldfine at Aerostich with what kind of quantity that she has and what she may want to wholesale them at.

He is real open and easy to contact.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI

[Gilly]

Dave went that route, May is trying to get back in, too late for the latest catalog now I think she said.