wifi

[Red100RT]

OK, for all I know this topic has been touched on before but here goes. Where I sit in my home I find there are no less than 3 network access points that appear when I turn on the wifi hardware and software on my laptop. None of these 3 network access points are secured or pass word protected and just by tapping on my mouse pad and opening a network browser wahlah, instant internet access. My question is: Am I doing anything illegal? I think not as these signals enter my home in an unsecured state. If someone gives me free internet access how could this be stealing?

[MplsK100RT]

OK, for all I know this topic has been touched on before but here goes. Where I sit in my home I find there are no less than 3 network access points that appear when I turn on the wifi hardware and software on my laptop. None of these 3 network access points are secured or pass word protected and just by tapping on my mouse pad and opening a network browser wahlah, instant internet access. My question is: Am I doing anything illegal? I think not as these signals enter my home in an unsecured state. If someone gives me free internet access how could this be stealing?
It's not stealing....they are allowing it to pass into your home freely....

[BreadMan]

In some jurisdictions, it's illegal. Unlikely that you'd be in trouble for that though...

However, if you have access to their network, they have access to your computer. So they can do what they want with you and your info....

[Rich]

In some jurisdictions, it's illegal. Unlikely that you'd be in trouble for that though...

However, if you have access to their network, they have access to your computer. So they can do what they want with you and your info....

Agreed. Use your own wifi, and make sure you secure it. I see the same thing in my neighborhood. I don't know why people don't make their networks secure. Ignorance, probably.

[jdmetzger]

Actually, it's not illegal. Past court cases have shown that to "steal" internet access, there has to be some level of security that you're bypassing. If they aren't securing their internet and all you have to do is click on their network to login, nothing is being done wrong.

Now, if you were using some application to provide you their network password, THAT could be considered wrong. If you were taking files off of their computers, that would be wrong as well, BTW.

[Red100RT]

In some jurisdictions, it's illegal. Unlikely that you'd be in trouble for that though...

However, if you have access to their network, they have access to your computer. So they can do what they want with you and your info....

How would they have access to my computer? For that matter, how would they even be able to detect my presence??:blush

[MLS2GO]

Any time you are on an unsecured network, you are actually going through their system. They could get on your computer and anyone else on the network could get on your computer. The software to do so is all around.

[BubbaZanetti]

try a couple of IP addresses common to wireless routers. then when it asks you for a username and password type "admin" and "password" then it becomes "your" network after a few tweeks.:p


(bubba z does not support the above suggestion)

[tommcgee]

Agreed. Use your own wifi, and make sure you secure it. I see the same thing in my neighborhood. I don't know why people don't make their networks secure. Ignorance, probably.

Not necessarily. Some of us leave our routers open intentionally.

[SherpaMayberry]

How would they have access to my computer? For that matter, how would they even be able to detect my presence??:blush

Through normal tools, they can access your computer if your computer is set up for the default network settings (workgroups) and it happens to be the same as what the network is on. Then you can actually share files (usually in a specific folder), printers, etc.

Those that leave their networks open are unlikely to have stronger tools to exploit the connection to your computer any further than this. IMHO, the risk of being detected/exploited in a residential area is very small.

Wireless routers normally have an interface to the owner via a local web page. In that interface, you can query the router for connected devices. The owner can then view the ‘unauthorized’ devices.

But, again for those that unintentionally set up open networks (which is default for new gear), most will not likely 1) know how to access the list and 2) never think to access the list.

If the unauthorized user on an open network is a bandwidth hog, the network owner may be motivated to do a bit of troubleshooting.

Then there is an unlikely chance (at least at a residential location) that folks are leaving their networks open to gain info from unauthorized users. That is more likely to happen at public places where network user traffic is much higher.

[Voni]

My Toshiba asks me what level of connection I want. If I'm home I can set it to let files be seen. When I'm on the road I set it to Public and then I can't see other computers and they can't see me.

Easily at least.

Voni
who loves free WiFI

[GregFeeler]

Several jurisdictions have made it specifically illegal to use someone else's wifi connection without permission. It's the same principle that you are trespassing if you enter the unlocked door of another's house.

Every copy of Windows XP SP2 and later comes with a firewall turned on. Many people buy "Internet Security Suites" which have even stronger firewalls, plus anti-virus and anti-malware features. IF you have a good firewall turned on the folks on the neighbor's network will *not* be able to access your computer or files. IF you have file sharing turned on (it's off by default) almost all of the commercial firewall products still turn off access to your machine and you would have to re-enable it for others to get to your drives.

It's a simple matter to see who is connected to a network. Every device is assigned an IP address and that is listed in the DHCP log of the router controlling that network segment. The neighbors can see the address assigned to your machine, and launch an attack if they want. Several of the aforementioned Internet Security Suites have a feature to monitor machine connections to the local network and warn people if an unauthorized device makes connection, so they may already know you are there. However, the idea of them monitoring for access while leaving their WiFi security turned off is at cross purposes.

If you want to see this information, just do Start/Run/CMD and at the "dos" window type in "ipconfig" and press Enter. That list of numbers tells what network you are on, your machine's address, and the address of the router (think WiFi connection) controlling that network. "Ipconfig /all" will tell you even more interesting things.

A good number of open WiFi connections are done that way on purpose in order to steal your information. If you have lax security on your computer they can access it locally. They can also monitor ALL the communication into and our of your machine. Remember, ALL your traffic is unencrypted and readable (including email) except a) traffic inside a VPN, b) traffic to/from an SSL site, c) specifically encrypted email messages or attachments. All else is wide open. This is a big danger in public areas of larger cities, but don't put the hacker neighbor kid past it as well.

And, last but not least - you don't want to EVER connect any PC to the Internet (any connection) without a good firewall turned on. It usually only takes minutes before the port scans and attacks begin. It's the wild, wild, west on the Internet.

[WildBlue]

Actually, it's not illegal. Past court cases have shown that to "steal" internet access, there has to be some level of security that you're bypassing. If they aren't securing their internet and all you have to do is click on their network to login, nothing is being done wrong.

Now, if you were using some application to provide you their network password, THAT could be considered wrong. If you were taking files off of their computers, that would be wrong as well, BTW.


So if you leave your garage door open, and the key in the ignition of your BMW, and I decide to take it, its not stealing?

COOL! What's your address?

Your logic is flawed there, somewhere.

The laws vary state to state, and just because its not secured doesnt mean its not stealing.

I have read news stories of people getting arrested in their car with their laptop accessing the internet from unsecured Wifi.

[OfficerImpersonator]

An open wi-fi network is way different than an open garage door. Radio signals answer to different laws than humans trespassing on private property.

There are quite a few people who choose to secure their individual computers but share their internet access via their Wi-Fi network. These people are called "generous" and not "foolish". As long as their computers are secure on the network, it's no big deal. Just like most employees can't access the computers containing the payroll/HR files on their employer's network, you don't let the general public have access to the computers within your home connected to the network.

There are two levels of security - preventing access to your network entirely and permitting access to your internet connection while preventing access to computers connected to the network.

Soon enough this will all be ancient history for those of us living in urban and suburban areas. I was up in Anchorage, AK last month and by the summer they will have Wi-Fi available to the entire city for free, paid for by the city. As other cities implement similar systems, we'll soon be able to forgo our telecom/cable company connection to the 'net.

[GregFeeler]

An open wi-fi network is way different than an open garage door. Radio signals answer to different laws than humans trespassing on private property.

Actually, trespassing is tresspassing. Your argument is the same as that offered when we needed to update copyright and other intellectual property laws as the digital age dawned. In fact, many States make it illegal to access an open WiFi connection without the permission of the owner, in particular residential connections as opposed to commercial "open" hot spots.

There are quite a few people who choose to secure their individual computers but share their internet access via their Wi-Fi network. These people are called "generous" and not "foolish". As long as their computers are secure on the network, it's no big deal. Just like most employees can't access the computers containing the payroll/HR files on their employer's network, you don't let the general public have access to the computers within your home connected to the network.

Again, it may not be legal for you to share your home Internet access by knowingly allowing others to have access. Many ISPs (Internet Service Providers) have provisions in their contracts preventing such use. They price and provision (allocate bandwidth) on a model of single-family use, not half the neighborhood.


There are two levels of security - preventing access to your network entirely and permitting access to your internet connection while preventing access to computers connected to the network.

True. However, most home users - and by that I mean something above 90% have absolutely no idea of how to secure their individual computers on a home network. They are relying on the protection of their hardware router/firewall for protection. If they were to lock down all their home network PCs to provide appropriate security for letting just anyone access their WiFi they wouldn't be able to share files among their own machines, which is a large part of the purpose of a home network in the first place. Encouraging the average home user to open up their WiFi to be "generous" is foolish.


Soon enough this will all be ancient history for those of us living in urban and suburban areas. I was up in Anchorage, AK last month and by the summer they will have Wi-Fi available to the entire city for free, paid for by the city. As other cities implement similar systems, we'll soon be able to forgo our telecom/cable company connection to the 'net.

Unfortunately, that trend appears to have stalled. The last article I read (two weeks ago) in a trade publication on public WiFi projects says almost every major urban project is either delayed, scaled down, or postponed/canceled. Costs have gone up, private providers fight it as unfair competition for their fee-based services, and money is now getting tight in city budgets because of the recession.

Personally, I think the best thing the US could do as an economic stimulus would be to develop a system of low cost universal Internet access. Highways, water systems, railroads, etc. are called "public goods" by economists. They are the infrastructure around on which all other business and economic activities depend. We subsidized the railroads with cheap land and it help unite the east and west. We funded rural electrification which helped raise rural America out of poverty. We built the Interstate highway system without which we couldn't have our modern economy. Those technologies were each in it's own turn the "new new thing" need for us to grow and compete.

Universal access to the Internet is that new new thing now, and while we allow it to be treated like an optional luxury item sliced up by the competitive providers, many of our foreign economic competitors are building their own virtual railroads and building new goods and services we can't. They will gain and we will loose.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm a technology manager, work with this stuff all the time, and have my share of frustration for the shortsighted policies I see.

[The_Veg]

Personally, I think the best thing the US could do as an economic stimulus would be to develop a system of low cost universal Internet access. Highways, water systems, railroads, etc. are called "public goods" by economists. They are the infrastructure around on which all other business and economic activities depend. We subsidized the railroads with cheap land and it help unite the east and west. We funded rural electrification which helped raise rural America out of poverty. We built the Interstate highway system without which we couldn't have our modern economy. Those technologies were each in it's own turn the "new new thing" need for us to grow and compete.

Universal access to the Internet is that new new thing now, and while we allow it to be treated like an optional luxury item sliced up by the competitive providers, many of our foreign economic competitors are building their own virtual railroads and building new goods and services we can't. They will gain and we will loose.

I agree Greg. The fast buck beats long-term planning and investment in the future every time in this country.

[OfficerImpersonator]

Actually, trespassing is tresspassing. Your argument is the same as that offered when we needed to update copyright and other intellectual property laws as the digital age dawned. In fact, many States make it illegal to access an open WiFi connection without the permission of the owner, in particular residential connections as opposed to commercial "open" hot spots.



Again, it may not be legal for you to share your home Internet access by knowingly allowing others to have access. Many ISPs (Internet Service Providers) have provisions in their contracts preventing such use. They price and provision (allocate bandwidth) on a model of single-family use, not half the neighborhood.




True. However, most home users - and by that I mean something above 90% have absolutely no idea of how to secure their individual computers on a home network. They are relying on the protection of their hardware router/firewall for protection. If they were to lock down all their home network PCs to provide appropriate security for letting just anyone access their WiFi they wouldn't be able to share files among their own machines, which is a large part of the purpose of a home network in the first place. Encouraging the average home user to open up their WiFi to be "generous" is foolish.




Unfortunately, that trend appears to have stalled. The last article I read (two weeks ago) in a trade publication on public WiFi projects says almost every major urban project is either delayed, scaled down, or postponed/canceled. Costs have gone up, private providers fight it as unfair competition for their fee-based services, and money is now getting tight in city budgets because of the recession.

Personally, I think the best thing the US could do as an economic stimulus would be to develop a system of low cost universal Internet access. Highways, water systems, railroads, etc. are called "public goods" by economists. They are the infrastructure around on which all other business and economic activities depend. We subsidized the railroads with cheap land and it help unite the east and west. We funded rural electrification which helped raise rural America out of poverty. We built the Interstate highway system without which we couldn't have our modern economy. Those technologies were each in it's own turn the "new new thing" need for us to grow and compete.

Universal access to the Internet is that new new thing now, and while we allow it to be treated like an optional luxury item sliced up by the competitive providers, many of our foreign economic competitors are building their own virtual railroads and building new goods and services we can't. They will gain and we will loose.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm a technology manager, work with this stuff all the time, and have my share of frustration for the shortsighted policies I see.

It's perfectly legal for me to have an open Wi-Fi connection in my home. If you think differently, I humbly request you cite me a city, county or state law that prohibits me from doing so.

We had a recent human interest story here in our area about a guy who'd sit in his car outside a local library and use the library's free wi-fi connection to play online games after the library had closed. Turns out you can't steal anything that's ordinarily given away for free. Seems the library didn't like people using their free service after hours, so they subsequently put a timer on their router that shuts off the service when the library closes.

The cops didn't like him sitting in the parking lot of the library in the middle of the night, but he wasn't committing a crime, so no charges filed. Heck, since it was the parking lot of the public library, he wasn't even trespassing.

But accessing an open network is perfectly legal. I protect my wireless network because I don't want to share my bandwidth with anyone else - but I suppose if I had a fast connection where I wouldn't notice if my neighbor was downloading video files over my connection, I wouldn't care.