Brake Fluid Replacement

[ltljohn]

I am going to bleed/flush brake and clutch fluids along with the 24K service on my 02 RT w/ABS.
Which brings me to two questions.
1. How much brake fluid will this require? 8, 10, 12, 16 ounces ?
2. Can someone point me to a link for a ministan or it's equivalent?
Thanks in advance

[manicmechanic]

IMHO, 16oz will probably be too much, and 8oz not enough. I know I've managed to do Wings with hydraulic clutches, all systems with 8oz, but that was just flushing and managing to not get any air bubbles. Better to have extra on hand than wish you did.

[pmkalby]

Hey John-

You're going to need 32oz of brake fluid on hand to be safe and thorough. No sense stopping half way through the job to run for fluid. Do your clutch while you are at it, it's simple. We just did my '04 and my buddy's '02 and we went through roughly 52 oz doing both bikes. You'll need at least 64oz. of beer, but get more just to be safe.

Order the following from McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com)

4005T5 1 Each Quick-drain Clear Polymethylpentene Funnel, 8 Oz Capacity, 4-7/16"top Od, 7-3/4"o’all Height
9545K27 1 Pack Tapered Push-in Round Rubbber Plug, Through Hole, Size 2, 13/64" Hole Size


If you are here before you do the work I'll send you home with a pocket full of stoppers. No reason to buy the fancy BMW cap - just drill the stopper a little to fit the funnel, and stuff/ thread the rubber stopper into the hole in the ABS module. Has the advantage of being "universal". And cheap.




Now, for the clutch you need a 10mm x 1.0 bleeder, which you can get at NAPA. I didn't get the right one - it was too far from the bottom of the threads to the point of the bleed screw, which has to press on a detent ball to open the bleeder. It wouldn't thread because the point was pressing on the ball already so I ended up modifying mine to make it work to avoid a trip back to the store - but when you get yours get a short distance from the pointy tip of the bleeder to the bottom thread and it should work fine.

You may have to heat the bleeder to get the grub screw out before you put the bleed screw you just bought in it.



While you are ordering from mcmaster-carr here's the new fuel disconnects you really should get, along with a lifetime supply of o-rings for them. These are identical to factory but white, not black. Same manufacturer logo on the metal catch, you name it.

Replace them and keep your stock ones for spares.

5012K672 2 Each Acetal Quick-disconnect Coupling, Socket, 1/4" Size, For 5/16" Tube Id, With Valve
5012K712 2 Each Acetal Quick-disconnect Coupling, Plug, 1/4" Size, For 5/16" Tube Id, With Valve
9464K16 1 Pack Viton O-ring, As568a Dash Number 011

[BubbaZanetti]

yeah, brake fluid is cheap, get at least two bottles, and after a ride and you're sure there's no leaks or anything you can get rid of anything that's left over. you don't really want to be using the stuff 6 months or a year down the road.

[amiles]

I would suggest that you get a reasonably excessive amount perhaps 2-3 X what you actually need and flush until you have the system full again with a small surplus. After a test ride or two and a day or two if the level is still satisfactory dispose of the remainder in the container. If you wish to have some brake fluid in stock, keep a new never opened factory sealed bottle on your shelf.

The fluid is inexpensive and the job is a bit of a pain, so once you get set up to do it do it very well (that is to say run a goodly amount of fresh fluid through the system while you are at it). Saving opened, partly filled bottles of the stuff is potentially sabotaging yourself with degraded fluid.

[jingdog]

Why do you need that funnel gizmo? Cant you just top it up as the fluid is pumped out of the ABS?

[awagnon]

Why do you need that funnel gizmo? Cant you just top it up as the fluid is pumped out of the ABS?

I suppose you could, but it pumps down very quickly and you're likely to run it dry and get air in the system. It's so much easier with a funnel. It's a good investment, considering how much you would pay a dealer to do the same flush.

[MCMXCIVRS]

I can typically do all three of our bikes with one 500mL bottle. Two of them are non ABS with single front discs, so there is not so much volume in them.

I use a syringe to remove as much of the old fluid from the resevoir first. That makes the whole process much quicker and uses way less fluid.

[awagnon]

I use a syringe to remove as much of the old fluid from the resevoir first. That makes the whole process much quicker and uses way less fluid.

I used to do this also on my two ABS brake 1150 bikes, until I read a recent thread warning about damage to the brake fluid level sensors in the ABS reservoir. I still suck it out of the mastercylinder reservoirs.

[MCMXCIVRS]

I used to do this also on my two ABS brake 1150 bikes, until I read a recent thread warning about damage to the brake fluid level sensors in the ABS reservoir. I still suck it out of the mastercylinder reservoirs.

Are you refering to the servo assited brakes? Mine is the non-assisted ABS system and I just empty out the only reseviors there are which are on the master cylinders.

[pmkalby]

Why do you need that funnel gizmo? Cant you just top it up as the fluid is pumped out of the ABS?

You're looking at under $20 shipped for those parts to make the funnel, and it makes life much easier. No risk of air as awagnon (hi Al) mentioned. You just flush until clean, then a little more, then empty the funnel and when you pull it out you should be just at the fill level needed. If nothing else, the funnel keeps you from spilling brake fluid all over and it's much easier to see fluid level - it's dark down inside the ABS module looking through those little holes.

My 04 has those little screens in the ABS, I left them in place so it limited how much I could suck fluid out with a syringe. My friend's 02 didn't have those, I carefully sucked a bunch out of his before filling with clean via the funnel - if you do that, either let the funnel full of fluid sit for a minute so the air from the reservoir bubbles out before you bleed, or fill the reservoir w/ clean before sticking the funnel on there.

On the front master cylinder it was embarassingly gunky and there was some bad fluid laying in the bottom even after some flushing, so the syringe with a short length of clear hose on it made a nice vacuum.

[jingdog]

You're looking at under $20 shipped for those parts to make the funnel, and it makes life much easier. No risk of air as awagnon (hi Al) mentioned. You just flush until clean, then a little more, then empty the funnel and when you pull it out you should be just at the fill level needed. If nothing else, the funnel keeps you from spilling brake fluid all over and it's much easier to see fluid level - it's dark down inside the ABS module looking through those little holes.

My 04 has those little screens in the ABS, I left them in place so it limited how much I could suck fluid out with a syringe. My friend's 02 didn't have those, I carefully sucked a bunch out of his before filling with clean via the funnel - if you do that, either let the funnel full of fluid sit for a minute so the air from the reservoir bubbles out before you bleed, or fill the reservoir w/ clean before sticking the funnel on there.

On the front master cylinder it was embarassingly gunky and there was some bad fluid laying in the bottom even after some flushing, so the syringe with a short length of clear hose on it made a nice vacuum.

The reason I bring it up is: how does the fluid get from the funnel into a sealed area? Theres going to be a quanity of brake fluid AND air in the unit. Now you take off the cap, seal a container (the funnel) to the ABS unit. Air pressure is going to tend to keep the fluid in the funnel out. Yes, it will tend to flow into the unit when you open the bleeder. But there is also air in the unit. Doesnt sound encourageing to me. Id like to bleed my 96 GS but I dont want to screw it up as its working OK now.
Another thing I dont understand. The instructions say take off the gas tank. Then initialize the ABS. For that to happen the bike has to move forward ie the tank has to be on and the engine running. Do they mean that? Or do you just have to turn the ignition on? Someone please explain it to me before I screw it all up!

[pmkalby]

Your 96 GS brakes are not like what we're talking about at all. The procedure is different because you have no servos in your brake system (whether or not your GS has ABS- don't confuse ABS with the servo "power" brakes on some bikes).

The good news is that your system is simpler. Assuming you have not introduced air into the system, and are simply doing maintenance flushing, you simply bleed it from the master cylinders to the brake calipers. No tank pulling, no funnels.

Be gentle pulling the front brake lever, especially at the beginning of the stroke, or you'll spray brake fluid out. If you screw up and let either reservoir go dry, sucking air in and sending it to the ABS brain, then you'll have to bleed the bleeders on the ABS box to get rid of it. I don't think your bike has to be on at all during the flushing since there are no servos but if you find it does, just turn it on and wait for the ABS lights to go from two alternating to one blinking or whatever it is that it does before it finishes initializing after you move forward.

[jingdog]

Oh wow thanks! Just bleed it through the caliper nipples and master cylinder resevoirs? Thats great!

[ltljohn]

One more brake question.
Is it necessary to use an anti squeal coating on the back of the pads?
Clymer manual does not mention it.

[pmkalby]

Necessary? I don't know.

I always put a thin coat on there - I have some Permatex brand stuff I've been using for years on cars and bikes. It looks like blue Elmer's glue. I put a thin coat on the back of the pads and let it dry, then install them. It allegedly acts as a bit of dry lubrication there.

I bought the stuff for a truck I used to have where the front pads would make a racket. It cured them, so now I just use it because I have the bottle on the shelf, and because it seems like cheap insurance. I hate noisy brakes.

[ltljohn]

I now have everything ready to do the brake system bleed/fluid change. The only information I can not find is the correct sequence for bleeding the six nipples on the control unit. Does anyone have a picture or something that shows them numbered 1,2,3 ?
Thanks in advance

[pmkalby]

I knew you'd be here.

Front

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/Fugu/RTbrakesfront.jpg





Rear

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/Fugu/rtbrakesrear.jpg




I sent you a PM at bmwst also.

[ltljohn]

I changed the fluid in my brakes today. Boy was that easy. There is no rocket science involved. You just have to take your time and follow directions. It is a bit time consuming to get everything off the bike but bleeding them was as easy as non abs brakes. Just treat it as having 4 different master cylinders 5 with the clutch.
Changed the fuel filter too while I had the tank off. Just got back from a ride and it is time to change the oil now.

[FatBaxter]

Since we're talking about bleeding brakes, how do you dispose of the old brake fluid? I tried googling for an answer, but most sites said to "turn it in to someone qualified to collect it." I saw one recommendation to simply mix it with your used motor oil, which can then be taken to any recycler. My local auto parts store collects used oil; do they also collect brake fluid separately?

[ltljohn]

My old brake fluid currently resides in a jar in my garage along with 4 gallons of old motor oil. I need to find a place to dispose of it soon. Usually in the spring the county has a household hazmat day to properly dispose of these things.

[ltljohn]

Since we're talking about bleeding brakes, how do you dispose of the old brake fluid? I tried googling for an answer, but most sites said to "turn it in to someone qualified to collect it." I saw one recommendation to simply mix it with your used motor oil, which can then be taken to any recycler. My local auto parts store collects used oil; do they also collect brake fluid separately?

Try looking at
www.earth911.org

[awagnon]

Since we're talking about bleeding brakes, how do you dispose of the old brake fluid? I tried googling for an answer, but most sites said to "turn it in to someone qualified to collect it." I saw one recommendation to simply mix it with your used motor oil, which can then be taken to any recycler. My local auto parts store collects used oil; do they also collect brake fluid separately?

Won't help you, but the recycling center here has an area where you can drop off used antifreeze, brake fluid, batteries, etc.

[FatBaxter]

My problem is that I live in semi-rural Alabama, and the recycling industry isn't well-developed out here. Our local recycling center collects only the basics: paper, glass, plastics, and cans. Auto parts stores do collect used oil. Maybe you'll find a place near a major city to collect various fluids, but not where I live. So I have to figure out what to do with my jug of used brake fluid -- it's getting full.

[pmkalby]

I changed the fluid in my brakes today. Boy was that easy. There is no rocket science involved.

And you just saved a bundle...

[eqyndad]

What about an R1150R?

My Clymer manual automatically refers me to the dealer.

[pmkalby]

We're going to need to know the year and whether it's got ABS, but the worst it would be is the procedure outlined in this thread for an RT with servo assisted ABS brakes.

[ltljohn]

What about an R1150R?

My Clymer manual automatically refers me to the dealer.

Mine does too, which is why I was hesitant to do it myself. After doing some research and getting encouragement from others I went and did it. Like someone told me, "if you take your time and follow directions it is easy to do" and it was. I will PM you some links to some good information.

[JimVonBaden1]

What about an R1150R?

My Clymer manual automatically refers me to the dealer.


What year is yours? If it is non-servo it couldn't be easier, servo-ABS a little harder, but still very doable.

Jim :brow

[eqyndad]

Jim:

Mine is a 2004 R1150R with Integral ABS OE.

[JimVonBaden1]

Jim:

Mine is a 2004 R1150R with Integral ABS OE.


Servo-ABS Here is a good tutorial: http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/service_abs3.pdf

And a tool for it: http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/abs3_filling_adapter.pdf

And I have a DVD available with shows it in video. But don't tell anyone I said this in the forum!:laugh

Jim :brow

[pmkalby]

Jim just curious is the R brake module the same as the RT? In other words can you use a rubber stopper instead of the comparatively pricey cap?

I had no leaks w/ the stopper, and you don't have to mess w/ the JB Weld.

[kbasa]

Since we're talking about bleeding brakes, how do you dispose of the old brake fluid? I tried googling for an answer, but most sites said to "turn it in to someone qualified to collect it." I saw one recommendation to simply mix it with your used motor oil, which can then be taken to any recycler. My local auto parts store collects used oil; do they also collect brake fluid separately?

My county collects toxic waste like old paint, coolant and brake fluid at the transfer station. You might want to check with them. Some places have an annual toxic waste day. That's what we had when I lived in MA. I'd pull all the old batteries, brake fluid, coolant, parts cleaner and such and they'd take it for proper disposal.

I can't believe I used to just dig a hole and pour that stuff in the ground 30 years ago. :banghead

What was I thinking?

[JimVonBaden1]

Jim just curious is the R brake module the same as the RT? In other words can you use a rubber stopper instead of the comparatively pricey cap?

I had no leaks w/ the stopper, and you don't have to mess w/ the JB Weld.


Yes, they are the same. I have used my "ministan" on all years of servo-brakes with no issues.

Jim :brow

[BeemerMike]

I can't believe I used to just dig a hole and pour that stuff in the ground 30 years ago.

:eek

So it's not just industry that's polluted the environment?

[kbasa]

:eek

So it's not just industry that's polluted the environment?

It was what we did. We had a place in the middle of nowhere Michigan and that's what we'd do. We had a hole out in the woods we poured it in.

I don't think we were any different than most folks. Nobody had ever heard of recycling or such.

I know, it's awful. To compensate, we recycle every bit of our current waste stream in our house. Paper, plastics, you name it, we send it around again.

[ltljohn]

We used to change the oil in the car and rake it into the driveway to keep the dust down.

[rbertalotto]

Find someone with a 1990s vintage 12 valve Cummins engined Dodge diesel and put it in their fuel tank. Those older Dodge diesels will run on warm spit!

I have a friend that owns a transmission shop and runs his Dodge on 75% ATF fluid and anything else he can find that he puts into the tank.............