Chinese Made BMW Boxer Engines?

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Motorcycle-USA.com is reporting that "BMW has now admitted that they have the engines for the G650Xcountry made in China."

Is this true?

Also, Motorcycle-USA.com is reporting there are rumors that BMW is looking into marketing "cheap (Chinese-made) Boxer-engined bikes... Apparently, the idea is to offer lower-spec machines as an entry level to the brand..."

Talk about diluting a quality brand. Please, say this ain't so.

What's next, making the Rolls-Royce engines in China to save a buck?

[kbasa]

I believe they're building them there for Chinese market bikes. :dunno

[rocketman]

When I was in Mexico last fall and Balize just recently I saw some pretty strange brands of bikes, some of which I could not find any info on anywhere on the net. Some lovely 250cc Dynamo "cruisers" among them. And plenty of the old (new) honda 50's like from the song by the Beach Boys "My Little Honda" and VW still makes the old bug for the overseas markets (outside of Europe), they just aren't as demanding I guess?:laugh

RM

[Mika]

I have read that Kymco is building the G450 engine for BMW and shipping it back to Germany for assembly into the bike. Beyond that there are all sorts of rumors related to the Chinese market.

[GeoffMiller]

The boxer engine rumor is probably based on the Chiang Jiang motorcycles which are basically a copy of a 1939 BMW. They are kind of a neat bike set up at the factory with sidecars. It sounds that in the hands of someone mechanically inclined they can be refined into something fairly reliable. See also URAL, Dneper. Check out the Russian Iron website and the Soviet Steeds website. Also check out Mr. Cob videos at you tube. Pretty amazing stuff!

[roburnmc]

Last week I was at a local dealer. The one sales rep. said he just returned from a meeting with BMW. The meeting was on the west coast somewhere. He mentioned to me that the G450 has some sort of Chinese connection. Can anyone else confirm this meeting and more of it's content?

[Mika]

dealernews.com (http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/Breaking+News/BMW-Taps-KYMCO/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/481696?ref=25)
BMW taps KYMCO

I posted this in the Morning Reads 3 January

[Greenwald]

Motorcycle-USA.com is reporting that "BMW has now admitted that they have the engines for the G650Xcountry made in China."

Is this true?

Also, Motorcycle-USA.com is reporting there are rumors that BMW is looking into marketing "cheap (Chinese-made) Boxer-engined bikes... Apparently, the idea is to offer lower-spec machines as an entry level to the brand..."

Talk about diluting a quality brand. Please, say this ain't so.

What's next, making the Rolls-Royce engines in China to save a buck?



Motorcycle engines that say B M W, but are Made in Taiwan.

Starting down a slippery slope............... .

[BigAdv]

Starting down a slippery slope............... .[/QUOTE]

This is not the start. The global outsoursing has been going on for quite some time, the alt. on my 07 RT is a Bosch and its made in India! Just the way it is now. The important thing to keep in mind is where is the part designed and enginered. Don't matter where is made, as long as it meets the specs.

Earl

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Don't matter where is made, as long as it meets the specs.

If your dog died after eating tainted animal feed (designed and engineered in the U.S), containing "spec'ed" wheat glutin from China, you might feel differently.

Then again, they eat dogs in China.

[rayadams]

just listen to the news.
one week its food made in china, posioning the japanese.
next week its tainted dog food.
next week its defective auto tires.
next weeks its counterfiet perscription drugs.
the list just goes on and on.
and we just keep on importing and purchasing.
american consumers are their own worst enemy.

[Polarbear]

My 1978 R100/7, I bought new, had "KOYO" wheel bearings, from the factory in 1978:). My dealer said, NO way and I had to prove it to him, 30 years ago! HD parts are made in Japan, suspension, etcetc. You can go on and on with all this...Most recently, BMW has had rear end failures(the past 6 years) and where do you think the bearings are made? Anybodies guess! Follow the money and you will find deals made in all parts of the world for just about anything. Randy13233:usa

[Mika]

Never know what is going to happen when you start down this road. First thing they start making BMW engines in Austria (http://www.rotax.com/en/Engine/2004/Motorcycle/Engine.Models.htm), then they build cars with the BMW logo in places like the Carolinas (http://bmwgroupna.com/index.asp), then they outsource to India (http://www.bmw.in/in/en/index_highend.html) after building MINI engines in Brazil, heck I would be PO’d if I was China coming in fifth or more.:stick

[gulfcoastbeemer]

I realize we live in a global economy, with out sourced parts, but when I started this thread I was referring to and thinking of complete engines -- which I believe is the case with the Chinese built, BMW/Rotax designed G650 engine.

How would you feel about a new BMW R-series motorcycle that has at its heart a completely Chinese-built engine, albeit a BMW designed engine? This is my question.

[mjuskiw]

Outsourcing has been going on for years, Its not all just India and China.

After over 1,000,000 units Honda is insourcing the assembly of the Goldwing from Marysville Ohio back to Japan. Completely the opposite direction of BMW. The quote from their press release follows

"This move allows us to improve the competitiveness and appeal of our products by applying the latest technologies and production systems at one efficient location," said Akio Hamada, president and chief executive of Honda of America."

Maybe this move signals the next trend in the industry. Its definately easier to control everything when its under one roof. Maybe its just Japan protecting their jobs. who knows.

I always thought you get the best quality when the folks building the parts know they are going on a vehicle that will share the road with them. Its a little motivation you lose when you outsource.

The US was the biggest market for the Goldwing and it made sense to me that it was built here. Maybe China will be a big market for the 450 who knows its a growing economy.

In the end you have to trust the brand to handle outsourcing correctly and maintain their quality and reputation. At least they are being open about the move and informing the dealers before the bike gets here.

MJuskiw
Akron Ohio

[mjuskiw]

I realize we live in a global economy, with out sourced parts, but when I started this thread I was referring to and thinking of complete engines -- which I believe is the case with the Chinese built, BMW/Rotax designed F650 engine.

How would you feel about a new BMW R-series motorcycle that has at its heart a completely Chinese-built engine, albeit a BMW designed engine? This is my question.

If I knew it advance it would affect my purchasing decision:
I most likely would not buy the first year model and would most likely wait until some history came in.

If I found out after I bought Id be a bit upset.

Mjuskiw
kron Oh

[Andy VH]

I work part time in a BMW dealership.

We have not heard of ANY Chinese built boxer engines or G650 engines for BMW .

BMW is sourcing the new 450 engine from Kymco, a Tawain based (Chinese) company.

Just to put this into perspective, Honda engines for certain sizes and models have used Chinese built Honda engines for many many years.

[YELLOW_S]

The rumor has been around for a while... But I don't see whats the problem...

Look at your chevy, GMC, Ford or any other American car... The only thing American about these "American" auto makers are they are put togather in the USA. All the parts are made in Asia. Mainly China...

The G650X engines are now made in China. Were made in Italy, but were turned over to a company in China. The G450X engine is also made it China.

[Greenwald]

I realize we live in a global economy, with out sourced parts, but when I started this thread I was referring to and thinking of complete engines -- which I believe is the case with the Chinese built, BMW/Rotax designed G650 engine.

How would you feel about a new BMW R-series motorcycle that has at its heart a completely Chinese-built engine, albeit a BMW designed engine? This is my question.

A brand-new high end Beemer with a Chinese-built engine? I'd be pissed. And hearing "Oh well - we live in a global economy, so get used to it" from a BMW salesman might lead to an outburst of unprofessional language.

Engineered in Germany is all well and good, but manufactured and assembled in a country known for sneaking things past us every chance they get (lead-based paint on our children's toys / tainted pet food / defective tires / etc.,etc.,etc.) would ultimately prove a substandard product, and BMW would then become 'just like any other brand,' instead of the marque many of us are proud of.......for now.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

The only thing American about these "American" auto makers are they are put togather in the USA.

Actually, my previous truck, a good old American Ford F150, was made in Canada. VW assembles it's German engineered vehicles for the US market in an expanded Puebla, Mexico, plant.

The point being, I find the premium price tag of BMW motorcycles, and the phrase, "Made in China", incongruent.

Plus, if the issue is German Engineering (actually Austrian engineering in the case of the G650); how long do you think it will take for the Chinese to once again pirate the design and the engineering -- as they have done with everything from iPods to missiles.

SAT question: BMW is to "Made in China" as China is to "intellectual property rights". True or False.

[Mika]

Is the Japanese Honda Gold Wing made in Ohio a ‘rice burner’ or ‘American Iron’? Will moving production back to Japan in 2010 to a brand new plant with new manufacturing equipment make it a better or worse? The Gold Wing Effect can be examined from many perspectives and completely different conclusions may be drawn.

I was drawn to my first airhead in large part because it was German made. My second BMW was a result of my experience with the first. I considered a variety of brands and models before selecting my current Roadster. In the end it seemed to be the best value for the dollar, was the best tool for what this fool had planed and delivered the best answer in my mind to my question; what will I think of it in 5 years.

The plan is to sell 150,000 BMW bikes a year by 2020. Where they are made will have an impact. Where ever the bike is made, BMW’s challenge remains to manufacture a bike that will be perceived by buyers as the right tool for what the fool has planed for it and is the best value to them, however they define that.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

...BMW’s challenge remains to manufacture a bike that will be perceived by buyers as the right tool... and is the best value to them, however they define that.

Motorcycles might be a tool to some, but I believe to most people they represent much more. For most of us, the purchase of a motorcycle, particularly a BMW motorcycle, is an emotional decision, not a rational one.

For the average BMW buyer, the sting of a premium price is mitigated in large part by the allure and promise of superior engineering and overall product quality. Some might also say -- snob appeal.

If a major component of a premium BMW motorcycle -- the engine -- is manufactured in China, I feel some of the luster of the BMW Roundel will be lost.

If you buy tools at Harbor Freight you might get a great value, but you darn sure won't be sticking a "Pittsburgh Tools" decal on your helmet.

[Mika]

The ‘right tool’ means more to me than your response implies. I agree whole heartedly that emotions play a huge part in how an individual defines value. I have left oil stains with Brit bikes at various places due to emotion overtaking logic. Even with different understandings of language, I do not think in the end we are that far apart of all of the things that go into the decision to purchase a particular bike.

At this point the difference is the apparent assumption that superior engineering and overall product quality are not available in a product made in China. The challenge for BMW as a premium brand is to deliver that allure and promise of superior engineering and overall product quality no matter the origin of the components.

[Mika]

Motorradonline.de on the China X (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorradonline.de%2Ftest%2Fverm ischtes%2Freport--bmw-motor-aus-china---china-xcountry.277228.htm)

[The_Veg]

If they wanna save money on production they should consider doing it in USA. Our dollar is now below the Canadian dollar, and of course we have TONS of displaced workers with lots of vehicle-asembly skill who will probably take just about any wage just to have a job.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

I can see the press release now:

BMW announces two new Chinese-manufactured BMW models, the "Sparkling Happiness and Good Fortune 1200 LT" and "Dragon Dance 800 RS with Fung Shui counter balanced motor".

:)

Ugh!

[Gnomad]

This is wonderful news. I'm thinking my next new RT should only cost me $8-9K.

[deilenberger]

I'm moving this thread to Campfire.. it has nothing to do with Hexheads at this point - and actually never did.