WOW! If You're Gonna Abort, Don't Wait Too Long

[rocketmanli]

This Lufthansa flight tries to land in an extremely strong crosswind, then finally aborts after touching a wing to the runway!

He successfully landed about fifteen minutes later, leaving many a skidmark in the passengers' undergarments no doubt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueJeC2pxxbM

[jdmetzger]

I saw that on CNN, this morning. Crazy! I've been on a plane that was dealing with heavy crosswinds, though maybe not THAT heavy (and it wasn't as big as an A320). It was a scary experience feeling the tail of the plane "wag", but the pilot did a pretty good job for us. I wonder how many people tossed their cookies on that first attempt. :sick

It may have taken longer to clean the inside than repair the minor wing damage. :heh

[lawman]

The next time you feel like complaining when a landing was somewhere between firm and hard, take a look at a wind sock or flag as you depart. The technique in a strong crosswind is to "plant" the aircraft on the runway so that it does not skip and become airborne again. As you can see in the video, the pilot is quite busy holding the upwind wing down, into the wind during the approach and then while touching down, using the rudder to alight the nose with the runway; I would have to guess that the crosswind component was "out of limits" for that aircraft on that day..

[jdmetzger]

The next time you feel like complaining when a landing was somewhere between firm and hard, take a look at a wind sock or flag as you depart. The technique in a strong crosswind is to "plant" the aircraft on the runway so that it does not skip and become airborne again. As you can see in the video, the pilot is quite busy holding the upwind wing down, into the wind during the approach and then while touching down, using the rudder to alight the nose with the runway; I would have to guess that the crosswind component was "out of limits" for that aircraft on that day..

What about when the plane lands hard enough to make the overhead bins pop open and the flight crew to make a comment about it? Different flight; I think I was on a DC-10... maybe a 767-600. Of course, any landing that ends with a normal taxi to the gate is pretty much fine with me. :D

[DarrylRi]

The next time you feel like complaining when a landing was somewhere between firm and hard, take a look at a wind sock or flag as you depart. The technique in a strong crosswind is to "plant" the aircraft on the runway so that it does not skip and become airborne again. As you can see in the video, the pilot is quite busy holding the upwind wing down, into the wind during the approach and then while touching down, using the rudder to alight the nose with the runway; I would have to guess that the crosswind component was "out of limits" for that aircraft on that day..

I always just assumed that a hard landing was SOP for the ex-Navy pilot at the helm, making sure he catches the hook.

[rinty]

"Every one that you can walk away from is a good one": ancient pilot maxim.

I haven't flown heavy iron, but I imagine that, given the underslung engines, which limit upwind wing ground clearance, and the throttle / engine response delay inherent with jet engines, that cross wind landings might not be a whole lot of fun. I've read that on the underslung engined jets, the pilots just crab them in, and then "kick" them straight in the flare, rather than crossing the controls.

On B 52 bombers, the ground wheels can be pivoted, and I understand the pilots just match them up with the wind direction before touching down.

Rinty

[WildBlue]

On B 52 bombers, the ground wheels can be pivoted, and I understand the pilots just match them up with the wind direction before touching down.

Rinty

Yup, its called "Crosswind castering" and used to be classified :p

[kbasa]

I always just assumed that a hard landing was SOP for the ex-Navy pilot at the helm, making sure he catches the hook.

Same here. Fly that sucker right onto the ground. The USAF guys seem to like to float it above the ground before the drop it in.

[SIBUD]

Winds were pretty strong and gusty for that landing. Saw it several times on TV today and each time I wondered what he was trying to prove landing in those conditions.

Most likely he had had practice at Midway Airport in winter gale. :laugh

[john1691]

Took my private test in a nasty crosswind. I had to reschedule once before due to weather, and this time the examiner said it was up to me, and being 19, I said, "Let's go". It seemed like our ground speed was about stationary as we came in, due to the wind. Crabbed it til the last minute and dropped down for a safe landing. Fun day Of course that was in a Cessna 172 RG, not a commercial jet. Like was already mentioned, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing!

[JK]

Same here. Fly that sucker right onto the ground. The USAF guys seem to like to float it above the ground before the drop it in.

FWIW -

Two methods for successful manual/pilot controlled crosswind landings (generally 30 knots crosswind max):

1) Fly in a "crab."

2) Fly "wing low."

Most airlines teach and expect their pilots to fly crosswind landings in a crab. The fuselage is pointing to the left or right of the runway's centerline, so as to keep the aircraft ground tracking down the extended centerline, as it approaches the landing runway. The wings remain level, and in the landing "flair" (35' above the runway) the rudder is used to straighten the fuselage to parallel the runway, immediately prior to touch-down.

The "Wing Low" method is preferred for "high" wing aircraft (wings attached to the top of the fuselage, verses low wing aircraft where it's attached to the bottom). For a "wing low" landing, ailerons and rudder are coordinated, so that the aircraft ground tracks down the extended centerline with the fuselage pointing straight down the runway. To accomplish this technique, the upwind wing remains "low." At the landing "flair," the upwind tire/tires touch first, and then the down wind tire/tires, because the wings are not level.

With the exception of some Regional jets (RJs), most airliners are of a low wing design.

When it comes to Autopilot/Coupled Approaches, where the pilot monitors the automatic landing, there's a 10 knot to 15 knot crosswind restriction depending on aircraft design and manufacturer.

Three things that complicate the task of landing in heavy crosswinds are: wind gusts, wind shears, and wing-tip vortices (tiny tornados) from a previous landing airliner.

Having seen the video, the 'Hansa pilot had both wind gusts and wind shear to contend with. Because wing-tip vortices can linger up to 2 minutes on the runway, after the previous aircraft has landed, one can't tell if it was a factor in this incident.

Wind shears cause aircraft to gain or loss airspeed/lift instantaneously. Like a building's elevator, it can cause the "bottom to drop out."

Finally, gusty crosswinds can make the landing aircraft "feel" like it's being "blown" off the side of the runway, as the crosswind airspeed changes plus/minus 10 to 25 knots.

In summary, I think the 'Hansa aircrew earned their pay today. Unlike NBA foul shots, a 90% success rate doesn't hack it in aviation. Even a 999/1,000 success rate isn't good enough.

With over a million landings each month, aircrew pride themselves in their skill and professionalism, for a difficult job well done.

IMHO

J.K. :wow

[SIBUD]

Just saw report on NBC evening news that the cross winds were OVER 100 MPH.

Wonder what the guys in the tower were thinking when they watched?

[Gilly]

Yup, its called "Crosswind castering" and used to be classified :p

Yup, it's how the USAF got the B52 inside the hangar at the USAF museum. Won't fit through the door straight-on, they had to turn the landing gear to max angle and crabbed it in there.
The B36, over in the first hangar, had to be put inside before the end wall was put up, it's THAT huge.

Gilly

[Gilly]

Just saw report on NBC evening news that the cross winds were OVER 100 MPH.

Wonder what the guys in the tower were thinking when they watched?


"Someone call 911"?

[MCMXCIVRS]

Just saw report on NBC evening news that the cross winds were OVER 100 MPH.

Wonder what the guys in the tower were thinking when they watched?

Can't guess what they were thinking, but they should have been thinking "this airport is closed". The pilot should have known as well that the conditions were beyond acceptable limits.

[tonkandy]

I'm a "nervous" air traveler. I get sweaty palms if there's even a bit of turbulence. It's kind of comforting to know that you can bang the wing down on the ground and it won't fall off. Maybe (just maybe) I'll feel better next time when I look out the window and see the wing flopping up and down a bit.

[BubbaZanetti]

Just saw report on NBC evening news that the cross winds were OVER 100 MPH.

Wonder what the guys in the tower were thinking when they watched?

yeah, i thought i saw "150 kph" somewhere.

i can recall flying a lot as a kid and young teen (insert jdiaz "oh so 3 months ago" comment here:laugh ) in a 1948 Ercoupe which i was allowed to fly some as i was on the verge of getting my private pilots license. we had some interesting landings in that plane on windy days, it was a pretty unique twin stabilizer, low wing 2 seater.

looked like this guy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/COREL_360039.png/300px-COREL_360039.png

[GSJIHAD]

That's called feeling the zen........being there.

[rinty]

...a hard landing was SOP for the ex Navy pilot....DarrylRi

I understand that Navy pilots consider carrier landings controlled crashes. That's why Navy aircraft are over built. You don't have the luxury of making fine adjustments in the flare for greased on landings.

Rinty

[DarrylRi]

I understand that Navy pilots consider carrier landings controlled crashes. That's why Navy aircraft are over built. You don't have the luxury of making fine adjustments in the flare for greased on landings.

Rinty

I did not mean that as a put-down, just an observation of how pilots are trained. Landing on a carrier has got to be extremely difficult. But if you fly enough (too much), you begin to notice that there are those who put the plane down ever so gently and those make sure it's on the ground at a particular spot.

[rinty]

I did not mean that as a put down....DarrylRi

And the Navy flyers certainly wouldn't consider it a put down; they're proud of their carrier landing skills and consider themselves the best pilots in the world. The physics of the situation is that they have to stop the aircraft in 2.5 seconds.

Certainly the pilot has a lot to do with it, but there's also a multitude of other factors that determine whether a landing can be soft: wing type, wing loading, aircraft type, aircraft weight, wind speed and direction, density altitude, rain, etc.

My Mooney 201 had a laminar flow wing and was almost impossible to grease on, because of its somewhat abrupt stall break. But in a rented Piper Arrow, which has a turbulent flow (conventional )wing, I could grease it on almost every time, in still air conditions.

Another "hard" lander is a Boeing 727, which has a wing loading of 59 # per square foot (empty), one of the highest around. The 747, on the other hand, is a real floater in the flare. This is just what I've read; the heavy iron drivers can correct me, and of course there are various versions of each type.

But I think most commercial pilots try to plant them as softly as they can, if conditions allow it.

Rinty

[rocketmanli]

A follow-up to this airplane video:

Don't ask me how they did this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtHW5q1DaX0

Great ending, too.

[SIBUD]

But I think most commercial pilots try to plant them as softly as they can, if conditions allow it.

Rinty

Maybe they understand that mean time between failures is related to hard landings?:bolt

[rinty]

:ha

Rinty

[Rebgen]

The video was incredible and brought back memories for me....albeit much more sedate conditions. At 17 I flew my first solo in a Piper Warrior low wing in a fairly stiff cross-wind. WS was only between 12-15 knots but enough to give this teenager a respectable sphincter factor. I'd only had my DL for a few months at the time. I was SURE I was going to scrape a wing!

[The_Veg]

A follow-up to this airplane video:

Don't ask me how they did this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtHW5q1DaX0

Great ending, too.

It's just computer-animation, and pretty unrealistic as far as what would happen if a car was in the way. I agree about the ending though!