Will College Be Necessary in 2024?

[screwtop]

I've always subscribed to the mantra "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance". However, I was listening to some talk radio on the way home from work last night (yeah, in the cage) and the host was making the observation (right or wrong, is open to debate) that for the most part, the "in demand" jobs these days are trade related (i.e., IT Techs, cosmotologists, plumbers, etc.). You don't need a 4-year degree to get these jobs.

The host added that the way things are going, it seems that there will be two choices; go into business for yourself as an entrepreneur (very competitive, but lucrative) or get involved in a trade.

So that begs the question: Should I be saving all this money to send my kid to college in 2024? If he doesn't go to college I get it back, so I'll continue to save, but I'm wondering about it. I remember the 80's was the "decade of the engineer". What decade with the 2020's be? Probably the decade of getting your degree, and going back to live with Mom and Dad.

[SNC1923]

Only a small number of college graduates work in a field related to their degree.

College isn't about getting a job, though there is a strong positive correlation between college degrees and higher earnings.

A college education is about learning how to think critically and logically, about different ways of looking at the world, strengthening one's knowledge base, about broadening one's perspective, and about becoming more tolerant and open-minded.

Keep saving. There is no money better spent than on education.

[kreinke]

Vocational and apprenticeships give better bang for the buck. I make almost 2X what my wife makes (she's a BA in social work).

[dbrick]

Go ahead, buy the bike. <g>

[rocketman]

Only a small number of college graduates work in a field related to their degree.

College isn't about getting a job, though there is a strong positive correlation between college degrees and higher earnings.

A college education is about learning how to think critically and logically, about different ways of looking at the world, strengthening one's knowledge base, about broadening one's perspective, and about becoming more tolerant and open-minded.

Keep saving. There is no money better spent than on education.

I think Tom's bucking for another tweet jacket!:hide

RM

[naddy100]

Some people believe that the US's advantage is in organizing and coordinating, and not in turning dirt into appliances. I'm not positive that's entirely true, and I certainly get a fair amount of static from trade-oriented people.
Noel

[OfficerImpersonator]

Be careful, people. We don't want to talk about politics here. The MOA is a politics-free zone.

[Bob_M]

You may resent it, but you will never regret it.

[CowboyKyle]

Vocational and apprenticeships give better bang for the buck. I make almost 2X what my wife makes (she's a BA in social work).

I think you are comparing apples to oranges here, in that you are comparing technical vs. non-technical. There are probably very few vocational grads or apprenticeships that'll do better than a BS degree, at least in the long run. Even BAs that get into a web or technical field will do better. Point in case being my wife, who has a BA in psychology, yet makes very good money (close to me) by being in a technology field (product developement and project management, pmp).

In regards to the actual degree, well I have a BS in ChE and am 34, my brother, who is 3 years younger and has 3 years completed on a Comp Sci BS (but no actual degree) makes about 1/3 of what I do. Now, my point here is that he has roughly the same technical skills, after his completing 3 years, but not the same piece of paper.

SNC1923 makes a very good point in that college teaches you how to think, and people in the long run will make more money because of that. Additionally, it'll give you an all important piece of paper that lends you credibility (that'll later have to be proven!).

I think there is no better investment than a completed education...

[Bfish]

Go ahead, buy the bike. <g>


:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

[hlothery]

I think you are comparing apples to oranges here, in that you are comparing technical vs. non-technical. There are probably very few vocational grads or apprenticeships that'll do better than a BS degree, at least in the long run. Even BAs that get into a web or technical field will do better. Point in case being my wife, who has a BA in psychology, yet makes very good money (close to me) by being in a technology field (product developement and project management, pmp).

In regards to the actual degree, well I have a BS in ChE and am 34, my brother, who is 3 years younger and has 3 years completed on a Comp Sci BS (but no actual degree) makes about 1/3 of what I do. Now, my point here is that he has roughly the same technical skills, after his completing 3 years, but not the same piece of paper.

SNC1923 makes a very good point in that college teaches you how to think, and people in the long run will make more money because of that. Additionally, it'll give you an all important piece of paper that lends you credibility (that'll later have to be proven!).

I think there is no better investment than a completed education...

Couldn't agree more. In all the job interviews I have conducted (a bunch) and school applications I have evaluated (even larger bunch) the thing a college degree meant to me was that the individual who had one had completed something......one might say accomplished something... and also demonstrates a certain work ethic, and ability to think and reason. It sets one apart, IMHO, from the generic job applicant. I know it opened doors for me early on....can't measure the ultimate benefits.

[ltljohn]

We will always need Scientists, Engineers, Doctors and more. I am certainly making sure there is money for my son to go to college.

[ultracyclist]

Hi, Screwtop..
Long time no see....

I think the guest on the radio talk show is a shmuck!

True, tradespeople (God bless them...I can barely use a wrench), may make more than a social worker...or a symphony musician.

But the psychologist with the PH. D. who owns the mental health facility( with other social workers and pychologists on staff) who sees the plumber for depression will make much more than the plumber...at least that is the way it is here.

Your son is too young for you to determine whether the lad will be the horse or the rider. In the meantime, keep on doing what you are doing and sock that money away. Remember, 529 plans can used for any accredited institution -trade school or medical school-stay focused. Take lots of pic's.

My son is in grad school. Fun, but expensive. He is doing well in his urban planning studies. He wants to re-arrange the world. I want the potholes fixed.

I am going to sell my practice in about 8 years. Then I am going to motorcycle engine repair school for my second career (watch out Paul Glaves! here I come!).
Your bike will be the first one that I work on :stick :stick

[lazygoodan]

I agree with the majority of the posts here. Save for college. SNC1923 cited things that you learn in college. I think networking is another good reason to go to school.
I went to an engineering school well known in the auto industry. In my work, I am constantly running into people I met in college.

That being said, my favorite line from a college movie is Blutowski in Animal House when he finds out he is expelled from Faber College..., "Seven years of college, down the drain".

[lkchris]

The USA will need college graduates to work the phones when India, China, etc. start outsourcing tech support.

[rocketman]

while I pretty much agree with Tom's statements I have to say that for years I assumed that intelligence and education breed tolerance, yet I have met a number of very intelligent and well educated people who anything but. I have come to the conclusion that upbringing and life experiences may well have more to do with tolerance and understanding than education or intelligence. I do know that as someone who never went to college and barely made it thru high school that it took me a hell of a lot longer to get where I am today that most of my friends that did go.
I also know that the teachers that really left an impression with me were not the ones that knew all the answers or could recite all the facts, but rather the ones that encouraged me to learn analyze and find my own solutions and take what I did know to arrive at that which I didn't. As Tom says learning critical thinking. If you can learn that then the rest is all gravy. I felt the same thing about the teachers that my kids had during their years in school.

RM

[The_Veg]

College isn't about getting a job, though there is a strong positive correlation between college degrees and higher earnings.

Unless you're me. I spent 5.5 years studying in a limited-enrollment, interdisciplinary, academically-outstanding college at a major university. My professional life since then has been one long tale of disaster and woe. :banghead

I am still DAMN GLAD that I went to college though. I learned a LOT of really amazing stuff- especially in my electives (took enough Humanities to almost have second-major in them), and I agree heartily about learning to think critically, creatively, and independently. And then there's all the stuff that no college can put in it's curriculum: all the interesting people you meet and extracurricular activities. F'rinstance, I was active with the International Student Association. That was a very vaulable experience to me as a human being.

[Greenwald]

"You want fries with that?"

[James.A]

It is my considered opinon that any person is given a hiring preference for having a degree because the individuals who make hiring decisions have a vested interest in enhancing the value of holding a degree. This is especially true when being cosidered for promotion inside a medium or large corporation.

Personally, my lack of education has been an impediment to advancement to the middle class. On the other hand, I haven't let my lack of education to prevent me from utilizing our capitalist economy to build an empire. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[hlothery]

The USA will need college graduates to work the phones when India, China, etc. start outsourcing tech support.

:laugh :rofl :rofl :rofl

[wildwilly]

I still hold this to be true into eternity: Six months work experience is worth more than a four-year college degree. :thumb

[eric81]

I say invest the money in a Roth IRA (if you’re eligible) and if your kid does not go to college you will have even more money to buy toys with when you retire!

My education ended shortly after high school, when I dropped out of college to take a high paying job. Now I make more than most of my siblings combined. Not all education is necessary, but I sometimes think it would have been fun to go to a party school.

[Holly]

I still hold this to be true into eternity: Six months work experience is worth more than a four-year college degree. :thumb

Even better is a university that offers co-op degrees. Both my sons went to the University of Waterloo in Ontario. They would be in school for 4 months, then working for 4 months. Took an extra year to complete their degrees, but since they were working for half the time, they had money in the bank and US universities offering them good money for their grad studies. Plus, they learned how to write resumés, do interviews etc Many grads are hired by the companies they did their co-op with. Win-Win.

Holly

[john1691]

Like many have stated, defineatly save, as if you don't, you may wish you had. If he doesn't need it, retire early...........

As far as earning potential, I know plenty of degree holding people (men and women) who earn less than some of the "blue collar" guys I know (50-75k). In fact a close friend of mine who has no degree, and started a company that does over $20 million in sales/yr. and has an upper 6 figure income. Another friend doesn't even have a HS diploma and makes 6 figures. I'm no work-a-holic but make more than my teacher sister and masters level brother.

The wider world view of college shouldn't be overlooked, but at an average cost of $20-$40k + per year, there are probably cheaper ways to do that.

I have a son headed for college next fall (he is a senior in HS), so I am not anti-college, just don't think your earning potential is based on it. If your goal is to be a social worker, go to school, but know you are limited in your earning potential. If you want to make big bucks, become a lawyer, start a business, be an entertainer or sales associate. The main thing is to find something you love and be the very best at it.

[RJM2096]

This is an interesting thread.

What is really scarey is that the average paid to govermental employees now exceeds private industry. These figures include benefits, which are harder to come by in the private sector.....

and Governments are notorious for hiring incompetents with college degrees...... :banghead .....

Hense... my advice is "Go to college and enjoy a health care and retirement".

[BradfordBenn]

I think part of it depends on what one wants to do. I think that by saving for college you give your kids more options. If they don't go, you got a sweet nest egg to get them to move the heck out of your house!

[Bob_M]

What is really scarey is that the average paid to govermental employees now exceeds private industry. These figures include benefits, which are harder to come by in the private sector.....

and Governments are notorious for hiring incompetents with college degrees...... :banghead .....

Hense... my advice is "Go to college and enjoy a health care and retirement".

If the statistics that report government spending on its employees is even true, that may reflect more on the nation's largest employer, Wal Mart, and the fact that many good private sector jobs being outsourced over seas than that the government is lavishing unearned income on incompents

I have no experience with the work ethic or the jobs of most government employees, but I have a great deal of experience with the Oregon Department of Transportation and their employees. The engineers, project managers and other white collar government employees are audited, scrutinized and overseen in the most intrusive manner. I can not even buy lunch for a friend who works for the agency. With the tax cuts and increases in population they are asked to do more and more for the same money. They are just people who want to do what they are trained to do (which required a college education) and get paid a fair wage for their work. Truely they are not entreupeneurs, but cogs in the machine of government. That does not mean they are not earning every cent of their wages.

I am employed in the private sector so this is no skin off my nose, but it is just not reasonable to disparage such a huge and diverse group of people.

[tonkandy]

This is an interesting thread.

What is really scarey is that the average paid to govermental employees now exceeds private industry. These figures include benefits, which are harder to come by in the private sector.....
".

This is probably true, the State of Minnesota did a study a few years ago and found that on average they paid about the same as the private sector

The people at the low end of the scale, secretaries, janitors etc. were paid better by government than by the private sector. For engineers, scientists, and upper managers, private industry paid much more than the government. On average the government pays better than the private sector - but if you have a degree you make more in the private sector.

I don't think that government employs a higher percentage of incompetents with degrees than the private sector. It might employ a lower percentage of people who can't spell scary, governmental, and hence.

[rocketman]

As someone who's worked all but ten years out of 39 in contracting to the Federal government I've been able to see both sides. I work for private companies but the work I perform is for the government and have spent about half that time working "onsite" in a federal facility and interfacing directly with government employees so I have seen/heard of what goes on from both sides. Seems that corruption/incompetence runs about equal. As an IT guy I've caught one of the VP's at a private company surfing porn sites from his office system and who also was discovered to have pocketed funds slated for the very project I was running! Zipp and he was out the door.... Seen the same happen at government installations, one day someone is there, the next they are not, with no explanation given.

bottom line is that you got hard workers and slackers on both sides. While it may have been true in my Dad's day that government jobs had an advantage that once in, you were set for life, unless you so totally f**ked up that they just couldn't look the other way, or because of its size compared to most private companies your chances of advancement or relocation were better plus better pensions, etc, I'd say that with the ever increasing size of company's like General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, who have thier hands into everything these days, IT, manufacturing, consulting, you name it, that is probably not so much true anymore.

Now local governments are a whole other matter. Take DC's government, lately it has been racked by scandal and rife with corruption, thou they are somewhat unique since DC home rule is pretty much still a joke, since the feds still oversee it. Sometimes it easier to cover up things in a small organization simply becuase if you get the key players to go along and recieve the benfits then there is no one left to blow the whistle.

RM

[screwtop]

This is probably true, the State of Minnesota did a study a few years ago and found that on average they paid about the same as the private sector

The people at the low end of the scale, secretaries, janitors etc. were paid better by government than by the private sector. For engineers, scientists, and upper managers, private industry paid much more than the government. On average the government pays better than the private sector - but if you have a degree you make more in the private sector.

I don't think that government employs a higher percentage of incompetents with degrees than the private sector. It might employ a lower percentage of people who can't spell scary, governmental, and hence.

I guess it depends upon the branch of the Federal govt. you work for and your area of expertise. I work for the public health service and do pretty well, but my counterparts in industry make significantly more than I do. There's a trade off, however. Their jobs are no where near as secure and there's alot more pressure. What price do you put n your sanity?

In my wife's line of work (statistician) employees are paid "retention bonuses" to keep them from going to industry.

[dancogan]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far as an advantage to continuing formal education: it teaches you how to write and speak effectively. Effective communication can be invaluable in any number of professions or vocations, and it's becoming something of a lost art. I know that when I have hired people, some with college degrees and some without, their ability to communicate with proper grammar and clarity were important attributes.

[Easy]

There are a number of variables in your question. A lot depends on the person. Some folks just don't want to go to college. Then some do, and later find out it is not their cup of tea.

There are a number of careers available without a college degree, but like Dancogan said, the ability to write and speak correctly will take you far in any career. That four year degree will help quite a bit.

The real benefit of college comes with an advanced degree. Statistics clearly prove the point; an advanced college degree will drastically improve your wage earning capacity. Not everyone will play first base for the Mets. And even the majority of those went to college on a scholarship.

I say save for college. You'll have the money if your kids want to go. And if they don't want to go, you'll still have the money. That said, depending on the savings plain you use, the ultimate use of the money may be limited if the child does not go to college.

Other than the love of being a good parent, a college education is the best thing you can give a child.

However, I love Evan Esar's quote about education... "America believes in education: the average professor earns more money in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week."


Easy :german

[rinty]

Sending your kids to college or university, if they want to go, is just a no brainer.

Rinty

[SNC1923]

Other than the love of being a good parent, a college education is the best thing you can give a child.

However, I love Evan Esar's quote about education... "America believes in education: the average professor earns more money in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week."

That's a great quote--I'll be using that for sure.

Not only is an education one of the best things your child can earn, it's something no one can ever take away from her.